Misplaced Pages

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE. The only relevant "keep" votes are from User:Robert Paveza and User:Shadypalm88. Most of the "keep" votes are sock puppeting by anonymous IPs, one of whom even replaced the AfD nomination statement with his own explanation why the article should be kept. — JIP | Talk 11:21, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Valhalla legends

Valhalla Legends is a highly technical and extremely popular online community, mainly focused on computer science and programming. The members of the innermost part of the community, the actual vL clan, are responsible for reverse-engineering the BNCS (Battle Net Chat Server) protocol, maintaining BNLS (Battle Net Logon Server, which is used by thousands of battle.net bot developers), and creating, as well as revising, documentation on these two servers' protocols.

• Keep 22:43, 7 January 2006 (UTC) KEEP - This community is a great source for information related to computer science, programming, and client emulation. The goal of wikipedia is to provide people with accurate, free information. Seeing how this community is a great source of information, as it accomplished so much and provides service to so many, deleting their wiki would only be contradicting wikipedia's goal.
• Delete per above. DreamGuy 06:06, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - per above as well as the overall strangeness of the subject mentioned in the article 24.0.161.209 06:14, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per DreamGuy FreplySpang (talk) 06:15, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as non-notable online gaming group. I wish for expansion of WP:CSD so that this kind of article could be speedy-deleted when no notability is asserted. —Quarl 2006-01-05 06:33Z
• Speedy delete as {{nn-club}}. CSD A7 does allow NN "groups of people" to be speedied, including bands, clubs, etc... Segv11 06:58, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
  • I tagged an article about a web forum once as nn-club and an admin disputed it... so now I'm just conservative and say "wish it qualifies for speedy delete" instead of "speedy delete". I would like A7 to say something like "This includes online gaming groups, web forums, mailing lists, ..." —Quarl 2006-01-05 23:05Z
• Delete Yet another frag-fest clan. -- (aeropagitica)  07:15, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
• Keep This is what I stated on the Discussion page:

Well, the article was around and was a stub. I recently expounded and added actual and accurate information to it, and all of a sudden it's listed under "Articles for Speedy Deletion." The group has had over 1700 members in the latest iteration of its message boards (which is I believe the third iteration). Its services have provided for tens of thousands of people (see BNLS, which I haven't checked to see if that's been marked too), if not hundreds of thousands, when one considers the wide distribution of Blizzard Entertainment's vastly distributed software. If this needs to be included in the article, then fine -- but I don't think that the article should be deleted.

Robert Paveza 07:33, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

• Keep

The members of Valhalla Legends are known as pioneers in developing gaming software, in a community that exceeds 500,000 users; further, they actively host a very well known support forum for their products, which has sub-forums to support those learning C++, C, VB, Java, and many other programming languages.

It is something that many will be interested in reading more about, and looking up, so is certainly a positive addition to Misplaced Pages and should be kept.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.189.169.234 (talk • contribs)

• Weak keep forum has 1700 users, so it is notable. --Oscarthecat 08:17, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
• Merge some info with BNLS. Scoo 10:43, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Although this is something I have given consideration to, it seems that this topic merge would also be inappropriate; BNLS is a user authentication system, and while Valhalla Legends is very much tied to this system, it is hardly their single accomplishment. Robert Paveza 17:42, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

• Merge into Battle.net. Blackcats 11:39, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

That would be inappropriate. Robert Paveza 17:42, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

• comment 2000+ members is pretty common for forums.Geni 14:01, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - This just doesn't meet notability requirements. Cyde Weys _vote 14:11, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, WP:NOT a free webhost. That's what your own webpage is for.  RasputinAXP  _{talk contribs} 15:01, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah that's special, of course, there is a web page. Robert Paveza 17:42, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, no merge. Nothing verifiable here. I'd probably have speedied this. Friday (talk) 15:43, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I have verified with one of the members who created BNLS that, although he doesn't have unique connection statistics, the BNLS server was around a year or two ago regularly receiving over 350,000 connections per day. 2,000 forum members might not be many, but that is quite a few connections. Robert Paveza 21:51, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

• Delete gamecruft. Functionally unverifiable, and what is verifiable is trivial and unencyclopaedic. Just zis  Guy, you know? / AfD? 22:09, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Typical gamercruft. Not-notable to boot. Dan 23:16, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
• Merge into Battle.net#Community. ⇒ JarlaxleArtemis 02:16, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete --Ajdz 05:26, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. -- Krash 04:25, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
• I don't think there is going to be an agreement to speedy delete as nn-club, which I would like to see done, but I'll settle for a strong delete as non-notable and unverifiable. Stifle 14:35, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Perhaps merge into Battle.net as the prevailing opinion seems to be for deletion Harrym 10:50, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Extremely notable and influential within niche community and also offers highly-used resources. All comments regarding "gamercruft" are ill-informed; Valhalla Legends is not primarily a gaming clan. Also refer to Misplaced Pages is not a paper encyclopedia; Valhalla Legends' niche status does not not alone preclude it having an article. WP:NOT webhost is also a weak argument; they have their own site already and the article is not being used as a true web site. --Shadypalm88 18:30, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
• Keep Achievments appear at least somewhat noticeable within niche, see no reason for deletion.

• Comment: No matter what the outcome is, could you please state it at requested moves? Thanks! —Nightstallion (?) 09:12, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.