Talk:Theism - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 2a02:2149:8b32:9e00:21f4:c4c4:2c17:4f89 (talk) at 09:30, 26 August 2022 (→details in French: L'auto-causalité et la cosmogonicité de le personnétat). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 09:30, 26 August 2022 by 2a02:2149:8b32:9e00:21f4:c4c4:2c17:4f89 (talk) (→details in French: L'auto-causalité et la cosmogonicité de le personnétat)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

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create page and paragraph: strong theism (usually tautological to monotheism)

prerequisites for strong theism
(otherwise God or the gods might not be cosmogonic and cosmocentric )

self-causation/self-causality of personhood
involvement of personhood in cosmogony

details in French: L'auto-causalité et la cosmogonicité de le personnétat

(Keep it because some English speakers speak French or use autotranslation. The main article has to be enriched.)

Religiologiquement, l'auto-causalité et la cosmogonicité de l'état de la personne ( anglais : personhood ) sont les principaux éléments du théisme fort ( personocratie métaphysique et non un rôle secondaire au divin ). Si le personnétat ( l'état de la personne ) n'est pas en soi auto-causé et cosmogonique, dans ce cas Dieu a des ingrédients, et en aucun cas il n'est aisé de prouver qu'ils co-sythétisent un tout indivisible tandis qu'en étant séparé de son essence ( ousia ). ( Le personnétat est produit par un organe pensant, qui doit remplir de nombreuses conditions préalables ; voir : « Mary Anne Warren - the criteria of personhood ». Le cerveau humain utilise de nombreuses parties pour atteindre le personnétat ; voir : Nancy Kanwisher, Mark Solms. Les théistes ne fournissent aucune explication sur les mécanismes de l'âme. L'âme est un simple méréologique ( voir : méréologie, simple en philosophie ), elle est donc incapable de transmettre des informations plus d'un shannon ( unité d'information ), et elle est incapable d'exprimer différentes sous-routines comme les aires de Brodmann. ) Il est très difficile pour un Dieu avec des ingrédients discrets ( inévident et multisubstantiel ) d'être interprété comme l'origine de tout.

Le Dieu impersonnel / athée, est un sophisme superficiel et une altération lexicale ( une confusion avec son antonyme généralement pour tromperie rhétorique ).

________

En philosophie, on ne peut prétendre avoir une vue supérieure qui reste injustifiée.

Does the term exclude pantheism and deism?

I feel pretty sure that I once read somewhere that as theism is belief in a God who is both transcendent and immanent, it would be taken to exclude both pantheism (which rejects the transcendence of God) and deism (which rejects the immanence of God). This could be more clearly formulated in the article. Vorbee (talk) 15:56, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

I like the suggestion, but the question is where is theism defined as "belief in a God who is both transcendent and immanent." Because, if that is the definition of theism, than it would be pretty close to pantheism? Thanks, warshy 18:00, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

My understanding of pantheism is that it defines God as the Cosmos (which would then preclude transcendence beyond the cosmos), where panentheism is closer to the understanding of God as both transcendent and imminent (i.e. fully present throughout the cosmos, but not the same substance as the Cosmos). Interestingly, the distinction between the two has parallels in the distinction between transubstantiation and consubstantiation (with regard to the Christian practice of Communion), and also reminds me of the distinction between homoousios (of the same substance) and homoiousios (of like substance) in the Christological debates of the 4th century.The Famous Adventurer (talk) 10:24, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

What about Pandeism then, where the Creator is formerly transcendent and presently immanent? Pandeist (talk) 04:12, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Wiping out all the links on the page?

IP Editor 142.160.131.202 wiped out all the see also links on this page. When I reverted he reverted it back pointing to WP:EMBED. I looked at WP:EMBED and I see no justification for wiping out all the links as he/she is doing it. We can discuss specific links that may not deserve to be on the page, but the wiping out of all links does not seem right to me? Thanks, warshy 19:33, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Weasel words regarding proof

This sentence from the article is problematic: "There have been many proofs of Monotheism postulated by a multitude of philosophers and academics throughout history." Even though the word "postulated" makes the sentence technically true, a careless reader could easily take the sentence to imply that there were many valid proofs of monotheism. This sentence should be removed or replaced with something with a neutral point of view linking to https://en.wikipedia.org/Existence_of_God for example. 76.21.18.251 (talk) 19:26, 25 August 2019 (UTC) John Corbett

Thanks for the note. I for one agree with you, so you can try your hand at it, and I will be checking and adding comments and edits if needed, to what you come up with. Since you are apparently also signing your name, I'd suggest you login as a registered user to start making your edits. Thank you and good luck, warshy 20:56, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

And thank you as well, warshy. My preference would be to delete the sentence. If anyone has an interest in adding a history section, the link I mentioned and many others would be appropriate. I'm not inclined to try to fix the sentence again because last time I did, it got reverted. I do appreciate the encouragement to create an account, but I don't have time today. 76.21.18.251 (talk) 00:54, 26 August 2019 (UTC) John Corbett

Whenever you do have sometime, and if you feel so inclined, I'd encourage you to try your hand at a better statement, instead of the one you have identified. If I agree with your suggested edit, I don't think it would be reverted. Thank you for caring about the accuracy of the content of this page. Be well, warshy 14:41, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Function of the fact that in theology arguments are called proofs. Suggest reversing word order -- "Philosophers and academics throughout history have postulated many proofs of Monotheism." Could further make it "postulated many arguments claimed as proofs" for caution's sake. Hyperbolick (talk) 19:43, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

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