Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 2400:2200:4c1:f247:2556:6238:796a:efab (talk) at 07:59, 1 October 2022. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Help with the Spanish Unichar template

Hello. I need some help with the unichar template on the Spanish Misplaced Pages. For some reason, some parameters do not appear. could you help me? Thanks Daniel G. (talk) 12:28, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

@Daniel G.: Hi. Looks like the examples look OK: Es:Plantilla:Unichar#Ejemplo. What is not OK? -DePiep (talk) 12:54, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

@DePiep Does not show the notes or the html parameter. I do not know why 🤷🏻‍♂️ ~~~~ Daniel G. (talk) 08:15, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Removing WP Chemistry/Chemicals from templates

Why did you remove the WikiProject from the Chembox tree? (e.g. )I added them three years ago so they would be part of recent changes. Christian75 (talk) 21:09, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Because it is only a subtemplate, does not appear standalone. It's {{Chembox}}. For maintenance or template reseach there is, for example, Category:Chembox templates (154). HTH -DePiep (talk) 21:13, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

But they belongs to the WikiProjcet and therefore, they should be tagged with the WikiProject banner. Christian75 (talk) 22:07, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

They still are in the WP, via {{Chembox}}. But they are not by themselves, not standalone. For example, /doc pages are not bannered either. Do you have a situation where this is an issue? -DePiep (talk) 04:44, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, next time someone updates Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Chemicals/Lists of pagess, the templates will disappear. Christian75 (talk) 07:08, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, and correctly so. Not an issue. Again, these are all subpages of the template. They are not independent, standalone pages. The template itself shows up as expected & intended. So please point out why such dependent subpages should be listed there? -DePiep (talk) 07:12, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

So you can see recent changes. Is it a problem that subtemplates have WIkiProject banners? Christian75 (talk) 07:28, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

They are not standalone. WP:RELC through the category I already mentioned. Since you did not once started to explain why you think the subpages should be listed, I will stop this exchange because it is only a repetition by now. -DePiep (talk) 07:44, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

• @Christian75: I have been thinking some more about this. If one wants to follow {{Chembox}} developments (say, talks and edits; maybe sandboxes, testcases), there are the following options. There is a level of intensity: how many pages do you want on the watchlist?

1. WT:CHEMISTRY, WT:CHEMICALS, {{Chembox}} (talk), {{Infobox drug}} (talk) are the basic pages for the watchlist & participation. All notes here apply to the Drugbox-environment equally, adjusted.
2. Category:Chembox templates (154) is the one to follow, using WP:RELC. A Special page so on the fly, no watchlist notings.
3. template talk:Chembox is the central talkpage to go to. None of the 450 subtemplate page, nor their /docs or /sandboxes, have talkpages any more.
4. The 10 sectiontemplates {{Chembox Identifiers}} .. {{Chembox Footer}} (under * in the Category)) is the next level of activity to watchlist: usually all serious /subtemplate changes show here beforehand. Minor changes like "http: → https:" could be missed.
5. The Testpages can be watchlisted, or {{Chembox/testcases/navbox}} can be RELC-followed. This is where development actions are visible early.
6. Category:Chembox documentation (6) has the main documentation pages (not the /doc pages), including parameter lists, the validation bot, ..
7. Category:Chembox tracking categories (28) does the articles.
8. And of course once can watchlist individual pages by special interest, like CAS RN datapoint.

HTH. -DePiep (talk) 16:33, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Beryllium

Thank you for your support. I really appreciate it. That user made two unfounded reverts but never joined the discussion I started. Now they ask me about my IP. Ridiculous :-) 85.193.215.210 (talk) 17:43, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

OK, thx, hope you feel safe in editing now. Here is the guide: never engage in such personal requests. If more troublesome, or more doxing, look at WP:Oversight (I could do that too). Al the best. DePiep (talk) 18:46, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Unicode versions in code charts

I think it would be much more interesting to say what version of Unicode a given block was last changed in, maybe saying "since Unicode V 1".Spitzak (talk) 15:33, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Good plan. We can add that (to {{Infobox Unicode block}}) later on, it is plainly adding information. Should have a good link target. IMO better & easier not to do this together with version 15-changes these weeks.

Having said this: {{Unicode version}} is mainly intended for our maintenance tracking: when an new Unicode version is published, we should check all pages that say "as of version 14" (that is, references, sources, {{As of}} statements), manually! For example, chapter numbers (for the same text!) may have changed. So, using Redirect

• {{Unicode version}}

has a different goal that what you prop

Sure, though if that is the purpose putting the version in a comment might be ok. I also found that the template does not say "Unicode version" if I change the text to "since" and gave up on trying anything anyway.Spitzak (talk) 15:46, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

That would be |prefix=since Unicode version. HTH. I am editing the infobox :-) DePiep (talk) 15:50, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

If you want to create articles on Unicode blocks, Cyrillic D needs a page. But if we already have an article, as at Kaktovik, it's not worth creating a stub that's merely a content fork. — kwami (talk) 19:36, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

"not worth" - the opposite. The Category:Unicode blocks (354) are the righty place to describe block hiostory, including the huge & higly infomative Unicode papers. Developing such a page in-section and then forking out, as you seem to propose, is abusing the host article and creating unbalance (for example, the Unicode history papers as mentioned). Also, being a stub is no reason for deletion or hiding. Quite the opposite. DePiep (talk) 19:41, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Read WP:FORK.

There were no Unicode papers. If you're willing to create a real article, great. Otherwise it's merely clutter.

Also, redirecting a merged fork is not "hiding" it. And it's the person who starts edit-warring (you) who should instead start the discussion, per WP:BOLD. I'm disappointed to hear such nonsense from you. You know better. — kwami (talk) 19:47, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes I know FORK. As I said, cumbersome & burdening for the parent article to develop a Block article in section. I also know almost each and every of these, which simply show the goal. Now my question is: what is wrong with a stub?, and that cannot be solved with a tag. For an item that was published into life not yet six hours ago. What is the harm? DePiep (talk) 19:56, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

But the block already has a section in the parent article. You're not making it less cumbersome, you're just duplicating it.

Are you planning on creating a full article? How about once you've written it, with the history, papers, etc., so it's more than a stub, then you add the dab notice to the parent article? Otherwise you're redirecting readers for no purpose. — kwami (talk) 20:17, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

You are telling me how to develop an article. Above you were directing me to create some other article. Anyway, you still have not pointed out, nor tagged, what the issue is/are with the stub, and so why it cannot be a stub. High level of paternalising and imposing. DePiep (talk) 20:24, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Sorry I snapped at you. Maybe it's because I'm not used to falsehoods from you, or maybe I'm just in a bad mood today. Either way, uncalled for.

I didn't tell you to create some other article. I objected to a useless hat note and an article that was merely clutter.

It would be perfectly fine as a stub if it didn't duplicate an existing article. We shouldn't add a hat note to 'Britain' to 'See also Britain (etymology)', where we merely repeat what we already have under Britain#Etymology. It's not that the topic doesn't warrant a stub, it's that it's a pointless distraction that contributes nothing to WP. — kwami (talk) 22:13, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

I see that @Drmccreedy: has expanded that section with the history and papers. I agree that's superfluous for the parent article. Is that what you were planning? If so, my apologies (again). I should've waited. BTW, an 'under construction' tag helps in situations like this, where you're reverted in the middle of constructing something.

I think we're getting a mountain out of a molehill here. I'll go ahead and self-revert on your Unicode article, then move Drmccreedy's additions there. — kwami (talk) 22:24, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

• Kwamikagami Thanks for coming back to me with this very generous and kind replies! My day will be fine, and looking forwad to opur future editing. As for the articles & the topic, coming days I have no time to flesh things out, so I'll take a new look in a week or so. Non-complicated edits areeasier :-). With a fresh look & rereading your views, we'll see what is needed. Maybe others will have contributed too (much activity since the new version 15 was published; Drmccreedy has leading activity in the changes). So, thanks again.

Infobox currency

Hello, I wondered if maybe you could spare a few moments to look at my attempts to add new parameters to this template, please? My work in progress is at Template:Infobox currency/sandbox. Per the template talk page, the object is to add the parameters "Main unit" and "Abbreviation". I've added the code but can't seem to stop them displaying when they have no content. I have tried various combinations of #if which either have no effect or break the whole thing. Perhaps you can see easily what I, being a complete amateur when it comes to template writing, can't.

Thank you if you have time, if not don't worry if not as no doubt I'll find it eventually. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 23:26, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

I have removed <nowiki /> in your new code: when input is missing, "nowiki" is content so the labelX reacts as if there is info to show. Don't know why they are with other input; these will have the same effect (testpage tests).

Point: main and abbr will apear both in the same header? (unseparated). And more. Hope that is intended.. DePiep (talk) 05:31, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Nice tag btw DePiep (talk) 05:31, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for solving my problem. As you might guess, the "<nowiki />" was a "kick and pray" when I couldn't see what I was doing wrong, saw it used elsewhere and thought "well I don't know what it does but maybe that is the magic dust I need".

No, they shouldn't appear in the same header, I will have to try to find what is causing that to happen. The layout should be similar to the current "Symbol", to produce (for NZD, for example):

Denominations
Unit: Dollar
Symbol: $
Abbreviation: NZ$
Subunit
(etc etc)

and I'm not convinced that I've got things in the right order to achieve that either.

re my new tag, thank you. It has taken a while to find something suitable. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:57, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

OK. Know, {{Infobox currency/testcases}} is your friend.

I have made som crash edits, because the code is dirty. Though there are more huge imprvements to make, I will refrain for now, unless you ask me to. (keyboardfingers are itching to edit). -DePiep (talk) 11:32, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

I will very gladly stand back and let you take over: I might learn something. I am a complete amateur at template writing and it looks like I've picked a very poor example to learn from, let alone try to develop. "Go ahead, make my day!" --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 13:28, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

:-) I do not know what your new 2 parameters are supposed to do. So pls put them in the right position (|dataX=-number). Are there interactions with other parameters? Like dependency, or "only show when |foo= is present"? DePiep (talk) 13:35, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Found: new |main_unit, abbreviation= will show in Denominations. DePiep (talk) 15:04, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

The long explanation is at Template talk:Infobox currency#unit= option needed but in a nutshell, the present model assumes that the currency name and primary unit are the same, which is true (AFIK) for every currency except Sterling and Renminbi. (In course of investigation, we see common misunderstandings, like the currency symbol for the New Zealand dollar is currently shown as $, NZ$, which is not correct, it is simply $: NZ$ is the abbreviation.)

Given the hundreds of existing uses, the new titles have to be invisible until put into use. Pound sterling and Renminbi are the obvious first candidates.

IMO, the lines "Symbol:", "Abbreviation:" and "Main unit:" should come first in the Denomination section – before any sub-units or super-units. This means a change in the current placement of "Symbol:"

What else have I missed? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 15:06, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Note that the abbreviation is for the currency, not the main unit. cf "Stg." for Sterling, "RMB" for Reminbi. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 15:08, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

todo also

1. " Jordanian dinar is divided into 10 dirham" - but current IB sugests "10 dinar = 1 dirham"
2. reorg subunits; per # data together
3. linked header denomination, todo demograph
4. symbols {{big}} or {{huge}}
5. add: notation form(s) € 6,00, 6.00€
6. pound stirling says "Super-unit:  1 Pound" --don't think that is correct (not a superunit) / will be solved by main_unit handling
7. add |in_unicode= for symbol -- when available
8. language(s) & scripts?
9. fix plural/sing text |more_languages= adding (slavic) Y done in /sbox
10. JMF: Sterling super-unit 1:1 is what provoked this need to change, being the only way to get the word "pound" into the infobox. It is a deliberately provocative kludge.
11. what is ISO "exponent"? Not in the ISO page -- JMF: I've never come across "exponent" either but will ask at talk:ISO 4217 and at Wikiproject numismatics.
    1. JMF: you have tangled with this before! See template talk:infobox currency#“Exponent” in Infobox currency. So "Exponent" is a wikipedia creation that really should be corrected to match the standard, but maybe it is too difficult for now, maybe best park it? Either way, I would wlink this and "number" to the corresponding subsections of ISO 4217 because they are too terse to make sense without explanation. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 17:20, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
12. anomalies: JMF: FYI, I have started a section Template talk:Infobox currency#Anomalies that need to be resolved. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:58, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
13. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 please add to {{Infobox currency/testcases}} the currencies you want to test for now (c/p infobox from live article in ===section). FYI, there is TPU for current parameter usage: See a monthly parameter usage report for Template:Infobox currency in articles., very informative. -DePiep (talk) 17:16, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
14. |date_of_introduction_source= follows date, is regular ref (not separate datarow) for /doc: has rtegular text before refnot?? To check all pages.
15. same with inflation source: cannot be stand alone ref number
16. todo: pick lighter colors for the headers
17. add |symbol_script= (when not Latn, and when known)
18. add: |iso_status= (at least: 'historical' or more formal)
19. Category:Infobox currency with an unlinked website (5) tracking check+doc
20. add |symbol_use/use_symbol= for ratio?
21. renminbi make lang box a module?
22. ISO code can be none - then nocat see the cat. Better: create cat:Not ISOcode
23. Andorran diner footn link not just number

You've earned it!

		The Template Barnstar
		For template:infobox currency Thank you for the hours of work you've put in. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 18:25, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, appreciated! -DePiep (talk) 20:51, 28 September 2022 (UTC)