Talk:Russo-Georgian War - Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Alaexis (talk | contribs) at 12:24, 20 June 2023 (→Two sentences not supported by the source. Cannot edit to correct for some reason.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 12:24, 20 June 2023 by Alaexis (talk | contribs) (→Two sentences not supported by the source. Cannot edit to correct for some reason.)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Russo-Georgian War article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36Auto-archiving period: 3 months

Template:Vital article

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Russo-Georgian War has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
March 4, 2010	WikiProject peer review	Reviewed
May 20, 2014	WikiProject peer review	Reviewed
November 21, 2014	Good article nominee	Not listed
December 4, 2014	Good article nominee	Listed
February 28, 2015	Good article reassessment	Delisted
July 26, 2015	Good article nominee	Listed
September 13, 2016	Good article reassessment	Kept
News items involving this article were featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "In the news" column on October 1, 2009, and August 12, 2008.
Facts from this article were featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on August 7, 2014, August 7, 2016, and August 7, 2018.
Current status: Good article

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Guild of Copy Editors

This article was copy edited by Miniapolis, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, on 13 June 2014.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Abkhazia Top‑importance

	Abkhazia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Abkhazia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Abkhazia on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AbkhaziaWikipedia:WikiProject AbkhaziaTemplate:WikiProject AbkhaziaAbkhazia
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the importance scale.

Ossetia (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ossetia, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.OssetiaWikipedia:WikiProject OssetiaTemplate:WikiProject OssetiaOssetia

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Limited recognition Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Limited recognition, a WikiProject dedicated to improving the coverage of entities with limited recognition on Misplaced Pages by contributing to articles relating to unrecognized states and separatist movements. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join our WikiProject by signing your name at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.Limited recognitionWikipedia:WikiProject Limited recognitionTemplate:WikiProject Limited recognitionLimited recognition
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Georgia (country) Top‑importance

	Georgia (country) portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Georgia (country), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Georgia and Georgians on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Georgia (country)Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Georgia (country)Template:WikiProject Georgia (country)Georgia (country)
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Russia: History / Military / Politics and law Top‑importance

	Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Misplaced Pages. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the history of Russia task force.
	This article is supported by the Russian, Soviet, and CIS military history task force.
	This article is supported by the politics and law of Russia task force.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

International relations Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of International relations on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Russian & Soviet / Post-Cold War

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

Associated task forces:
/
	Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

Archives

Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20
21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30
31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36

This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present.

Horribly cited and politically charged

The first section is like edited by Saakashvili himself. Putting blame on the one side of the war, while completely trying to protect the other, citing mostly media sources and articles that have questionable impartiality to say the least.

I would edit it myself if I knew how, using both credible sources and media sources.

Most notably the section

"in 1 August 2008, the Russian-backed South Ossetian forces started shelling Georgian villages, with a sporadic response from Georgian peacekeepers in the area. Intensifying artillery attacks by the South Ossetian separtists broke a 1992 ceasefire agreement. To put an end to these attacks, Georgian army units were sent into the South Ossetian conflict zone on 7 August and took control of most of Tskhinvali, a separatist stronghold, within hours. Some Russian troops had illicitly crossed the Georgia–Russia border through the Roki Tunnel and advanced into the South Ossetian conflict zone by 7 August before the Georgian military response. Russia falsely accused Georgia of committing "genocide" and "aggression against South Ossetia"."

The language, amateur level of wording showing horrible bias, the information's one-sidedness, even the questionable events not being treated as such and presented as undisputed facts......

I would heavily edit this very important section with sources such as the EU independent fact-finding mission, UK Parliament report, even US officials, as well as more credible, established political scientist/authors.

I have Masters degree in political science and international affairs from an American (US) university and I find this horrendous. Ghar93 (talk) 03:17, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

I agree that the current version is biased. This issue was discussed extensively, you can read the last RfC here. You can edit the article yourself per WP:BOLD or propose changes here at the talk page. Alaexis_¿question? 20:17, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

I see. Sorry I'm new here. Came to the page for something else, stumbled on this gem 141.136.89.95 (talk) 20:59, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

@Ghar93 Welcome to literally any page involving Russia nowadays 89.113.102.17 (talk) 03:58, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

This is a joke

Ridiculous, state sponsored propaganda is rife on this site America's butcher in Georgia and Odessa started this conflict, but who cares about facts on a site that can be commandeered by agents of American foreign policy

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-georgia-russia-report-idUSTRE58T4MO20090930 2A02:C7F:5D32:DE00:586D:615E:AE69:E210 (talk) 22:08, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

I agree. A very one-sided article. Mr Saakashvili was a bit of a hot-head who became overly-emboldened and the Bush people couldn't keep him in check. Hence the 'war'. It's disappointing that we can no longer have some objectivity on these matters. More recent events in the Ukraine have likely made it that way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:503:5F01:98FE:F8F0:EF2E:1831 (talk) 01:59, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Two sentences not supported by the source. Cannot edit to correct for some reason.

The following sentences: " Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces Yuri Baluyevsky said on 11 April that Russia would carry out "steps of a different nature" in addition to military action to block NATO membership of former Soviet republics. General Baluyevsky admitted in 2012 that after President Putin had decided to attack Georgia prior to the May 2008 inauguration of Dmitry Medvedev as president of Russia, a military action was planned and explicit orders were issued in advance before August 2008. Russia aimed to stop Georgia's accession to NATO and also to bring about a "regime change"."

Are not supported by the provided reference. A search for the name Yuri does not show any reference to this Russian officer. The name "Baluyevsky" does not appear in the source material at all. This is clearly a fabrication.122.150.92.52 (talk) 05:38, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Further to this, he was not even the Chief of Staff at the dates mentioned, according to a quick check of the Wiki article about him. You'd assume Misplaced Pages would at least get that fact correct, but I did not check if that was also based on a fabricated source.122.150.92.52 (talk) 05:42, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you're saying that they are not supported by sources. Two sources are provided: Reuters article and Van Herpen's book. I've added a clarification to the article that Baluyevski no longer was the chief of staff in 2008. Alaexis_¿question? 09:10, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Now that I dug deeper into it and found some inconsistencies. I'll try to demonstrate them as succinctly as possible. The article says

“

General Baluyevsky said in 2012 that after President Putin had decided to attack Georgia prior to the May 2008 inauguration of Dmitry Medvedev as president of Russia, a military action was planned and explicit orders were issued in advance before August 2008. Russia aimed to stop Georgia's accession to NATO and also to bring about a "regime change".

”

The is referenced to Van Herpen's book Putin's wars : the rise of Russia's new imperialism, pp. 233-235. Indeed he says According to ... Baluevsky ... "a decision to invade Georgia was made by Putin before... May 2008". He doesn't mention NATO or regime change though. Van Herpen references the Russian/South Ossetian film 8 August 2008. The Lost Day in which Baluevsky supposedly made these statements (this is supposed to be a direct quote). The problem is that he never says these words. The closest thing he does say (at 14:34) is The decision was taken earlier by Putin regarding the possible actions of the Russian Armed Forces, to give the order to respond with the first shell, bomb falling (Решение было принято на возможные действия российских ВС ещё ВВП, с первым падением снаряда, бомбы, давать команду на применение ответных действий) (he's a bit rambling). So the plans Baluevsky describes are about the response to a Georgian attack. This makes a lot of sense given that this was the official Russian position from the very beginning. In the film the narrator says it himself at 7:30.

Of course the video itself is a primary source and Van Herpen is an expert who is entitled to interpret it the way he sees fit. However we have other sources which noted that Baluevsky was talking about the plans how to respond to a Georgian attack: The documentary ... lauds ... Vladimir Putin as playing a decisive role in preparing a plan to repel Georgia and then ordering its execution Harvard Kennedy School, Lenta.ru (pre-2014), Geopolitika.lt.

Obviously this doesn't *prove* that only the response was planned. I'll try to update the article following WP:NPOV and WP:RS. Alaexis_¿question? 12:24, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Categories: