Talk:Homeopathy - Misplaced Pages

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view · edit Frequently asked questions

Some common points of argument are addressed in the FAQ below, which represents the consensus of editors here. Please remember that this page is only for discussing Misplaced Pages's encyclopedia article about Homeopathy.

To view an explanation to the answer, click the link to the right of the question. Q1: Should material critical of homeopathy be in the article? (Yes.) A1: Yes. Material critical of homeopathy must be included in the article. The articles on Misplaced Pages include information from all significant points of view. This is summarized in the policy pages which can be accessed from the Neutral point of view policy. This article strives to conform to Misplaced Pages policies, which dictate that a substantial fraction of articles in fringe areas be devoted to mainstream views of those topics. Q2: Should material critical of homeopathy be in the lead? (Yes.) A2: Yes. Material critical of homeopathy belongs in the lead section. The lead must contain a summary of all the material in the article, including the critical material. This is described further in the Lead section guideline. Q3: Is the negative material in the article NPOV? (Yes.) A3: Yes. Including negative material is part of achieving a neutral article. A neutral point of view does not necessarily equate to a sympathetic point of view. Neutrality is achieved by including all points of view – both positive and negative – in rough proportion to their prominence. Q4: Does Misplaced Pages consider homeopathy a fringe theory? (Yes.) A4: Yes. Homeopathy is described as a fringe medical system in sources reliable to make the distinction. This is defined by the Fringe theories guideline, which explains: We use the term fringe theory in a very broad sense to describe ideas that depart significantly from the prevailing or mainstream view in its particular field of study.

Since the collective weight of peer-reviewed studies does not support the efficacy of homeopathy, it departs significantly enough from the mainstream view of science to be considered a fringe theory.

References

Jonas, WB; Ives, JA (February 2008). "Should we explore the clinical utility of hormesis". Human & Experimental Toxicology. 27 (2): 123–127. PMID 18480136.

Q5: Should studies that show that homeopathy does not work go into the article? (Yes.) A5: Yes. Studies that show that homeopathy does not work are part of a full treatment of the topic and should go into the article. Misplaced Pages is not the place to right great wrongs. Non-experts have suggested that all the studies that show homeopathy does not work are faulty studies and are biased, but this has not been borne out by the mainstream scientific community. Q6: Should another article called "Criticism of homeopathy" be created? (No.) A6: No. Another article called "Criticism of homeopathy" should not be created. This is called a "POV fork" and is discouraged. Q7: Should alleged proof that homeopathy works be included in the article? (No.) A7: No. Alleged proof that homeopathy works should not be included in the article. That is because no such proof has come from reliable sources. If you have found a reliable source, such as an academic study, that you think should be included, you can propose it for inclusion on the article’s talk page. Note that we do not have room for all material, both positive and negative. We try to sample some of each and report them according to their prominence. Note also that it is not the job of Misplaced Pages to convince those people who do not believe homeopathy works, nor to dissuade those who believe that it does work, but to accurately describe how many believe and how many do not believe and why. Q8: Should all references to material critical of homeopathy be put in a single section in the article? (No.) A8: No. Sources critical of homeopathy should be integrated normally in the course of presenting the topic and its reception, not shunted into a single criticism section. Such segregation is generally frowned upon as poor writing style on Misplaced Pages. Q9: Should the article mention that homeopathy might work by some as-yet undiscovered mechanism? (No.) A9: No. The article should not mention that homeopathy might work by some as-yet undiscovered mechanism. Misplaced Pages is not a place for original research or speculation. Q10: Is the article with its negative material biased? (No.) A10: No. The article with its negative material is not biased. The article must include both positive and negative views according to the policies of Misplaced Pages. Q11: Should the article characterize homeopathy as a blatant fraud and quackery? (No.) A11: No. Inflammatory language does not serve the purpose of an encyclopedia; it should only be done if essential to explain a specific point of view and must be supported from a reliable source. Misplaced Pages articles must be neutral and reflect information found in reliable sources. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia and not a consumer guide, so while scientific sources commonly characterise homeopathy as nonsense, fraud, pseudoscience and quackery - and the article should (and does) report this consensus - ultimately the reader should be allowed to draw his/her own conclusions.

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Homeopathy has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
September 14, 2006	Good article nominee	Not listed
September 27, 2007	Good article nominee	Listed
October 8, 2007	Good article reassessment	Delisted
October 13, 2007	Good article reassessment	Delisted
October 19, 2007	Peer review	Reviewed
October 25, 2007	Good article nominee	Listed
February 9, 2008	Peer review	Reviewed
March 2, 2009	Peer review	Reviewed
April 4, 2009	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
November 2, 2012	Good article reassessment	Delisted
June 11, 2020	Good article nominee	Not listed
October 29, 2020	Good article nominee	Listed
Current status: Good article

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level-4 vital article is rated GA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
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Skepticism Top‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Skepticism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of science, pseudoscience, pseudohistory and skepticism related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SkepticismWikipedia:WikiProject SkepticismTemplate:WikiProject SkepticismSkepticism
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Homeopathy, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.HomeopathyWikipedia:WikiProject HomeopathyTemplate:WikiProject HomeopathyHomeopathy

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Ideal sources for Misplaced Pages's health content are defined in the guideline Misplaced Pages:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) and are typically review articles. Here are links to possibly useful sources of information about Homeopathy.

PubMed provides review articles from the past five years (limit to free review articles)
The TRIP database provides clinical publications about evidence-based medicine.
Other potential sources include: Centre for Reviews and Dissemination and CDC

This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:

David Gorski (March 6, 2023). "Ivermectin booster Dr. Tess Lawrie goes all-in for homeopathy for COVID and long COVID". Science-Based Medicine. Retrieved March 13, 2023. Lawrie, as is the case with most quacks, is not happy with Misplaced Pages. Indeed, she starts out by looking at Misplaced Pages: "Let's start with the lies and misinformation about homeopathy. Here's how the internet's propaganda factory Misplaced Pages currently defines it:"
Syeda ShahBano Ijaz (29 May 2023). "How Conflicts and Population Loss Led to the Rise of English Misplaced Pages's Credibility". American Political Science Association. Retrieved 30 May 2023. Take the example of the Misplaced Pages page on homeopathy: from 2001-2006, the lead on the page described homeopathy as a "controversial system of alternative medicine." From 2006-2013, the content changed to mentioning that homeopathy has been "regarded as pseudoscience" and sharing that there is a "lack of convincing scientific evidence confirming its efficacy." By 2015, this description had stabilized to "homeopathy is a pseudoscience."

Reverting deleting edits?

Now-blocked user complaining about WP:FORUM removals on this page. — The Hand That Feeds You: 16:48, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Is it not against Misplaced Pages rules to delete contributions made by other users in the talk page ? If you dont agree with what I suggested just try to discuss it.. If discussion is difficult for you then try to educate yourselves ... a little about rules in elementery discourse... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jay1938 (talk • contribs) 20:59, 24 November 2023 (UTC) It is not against Misplaced Pages rules to delete WP:FORUM contributions. Your contribution had no useable suggestion for improving it. It would have been useable if you had included a new WP:MEDRS source. Omitting the "waah! waah! bias!" rhetoric would have been a plus too. See WP:YWAB for other examples. --Hob Gadling (talk) 08:27, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Now-blocked user complaining about WP:FORUM removals on this page. — The Hand That Feeds You: 16:48, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Is it not against Misplaced Pages rules to delete contributions made by other users in the talk page ? If you dont agree with what I suggested just try to discuss it.. If discussion is difficult for you then try to educate yourselves ... a little about rules in elementery discourse... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jay1938 (talk • contribs) 20:59, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

It is not against Misplaced Pages rules to delete WP:FORUM contributions. Your contribution had no useable suggestion for improving it. It would have been useable if you had included a new WP:MEDRS source. Omitting the "waah! waah! bias!" rhetoric would have been a plus too. See WP:YWAB for other examples. --Hob Gadling (talk) 08:27, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Schools of Homeopathy in the US

https://homeopathy.org/homeopathic-education/homeopathic-schools-directory/ 2600:1700:FDF0:19D0:9DA2:17A:7162:AFC7 (talk) 19:00, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

WP:NOTDIRECTORY. VQuakr (talk) 19:02, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Evidence of scientific underpinning for homeopathic remedies

Asked and answered. — The Hand That Feeds You: 10:48, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

please read and refer to The Memory of Water, which details the research done by a French Dr, and scientist who gives a very plausible explanation of the science supported by research and experiment. I am 69, have a masters degree and am not given to daft ideas. My children were treated with homeopathic remedies when they were little, which usually worked very well and were much safer than antibiotics. As a result they have very good immune systems. We are all becoming resistant to antibiotics and homeopathy represents a safe alternative.If it is possible to split or fuse atoms, why can the body which is 80% water, not respond on a molecular level to 'like cures like' treatments? Isn't that how vaccine works in a way? Please put both sides of the discussion. 2A00:23C6:3888:101:D55A:C3A6:77F:AFD6 (talk) 19:29, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Any proposal to such inclusion should be based on sources that satisfy WP:MEDRS. Without such sources this request is off-topic on this article talk page. - DVdm (talk) 20:02, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

When I was studying chemistry at university in the 1990s, we were taught that liquid water does indeed have a 'memory', of sorts, but it is one that lasts for a tiny fraction of a second. Quacks, charlatans and pseudoscientific snake oil salesmen have been relying on that sciencey-sounding phrase to hoodwink scientifically illiterate people into buying their faux remedies for decades. People are not healed by homeopathic remedies, they just get better naturally, just like people who don't take anything when they have a bit of a cold. (Antibiotics don't work on colds, flus and the like either, they are only effective against bacterial infections. And no, we aren't becoming resistant to them - it is the bacteria that are evolving and becoming resistant to them.) Homeopathy is mostly safe, in the sense that most of the remedies sold under the banner of homeopathy aren't actively poisonous; however, it is entirely ineffective, and giving people ineffective drugs when they have real ailments is, well, not ideal. There are no two 'sides' to this, at least in the scientific community, which unanimously accepts that there is no evidence that homeopathy is more effective in treating any ailment than a cup of tea and a bit of sympathy, and also unanimously accepts that there is no scientifically credible proposed mechanism by which it might work. At all. The other 'side' is the result of the marketing effort of what is a multi-billion dollar industry, selling ineffective treatments to people who don't know any better, which wants to keep doing that. We have a duty to reflect the scientific consensus view, and not to reflect the other one. Girth Summit _(blether) 20:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Even if there were no rules here against using your own reasoning: Nobody who knows anything about how science works is impressed by people showing off their credentials or the credentials of somebody else, or by anecdotal evidence tainted by Post hoc ergo propter hoc and cherry picking. That "French Dr" is probably Jacques Benveniste who was well-known for his gullibility regarding such things, and his "findings" have not been corroborated. --Hob Gadling (talk) 06:39, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Categories: