Talk:Eye color - Misplaced Pages

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Why is editing blocked on an article with such poor sourcing?

"DNA studies on ancient human remains confirm that light skin, hair and eyes were present at least tens of thousands of years ago on Neanderthals, who lived in Eurasia for 500,000 years."

No, those sources don't say that -- especially the bit about "500,000 years," but more important (given the subject of the article) nothing "confirms" "light eyes" in Neanderthals, only light skin and red hair. Genes expressing blue eyes in modern homo sapiens were present but less dominant in a couple DNA samples mentioned in one of the articles, but that's it, and the article warns that the study is not widely accepted and that we ahve no way of knowing what the actual effect of thse genes would have been.

Yet there it is: DNA studies on ancient human remains confirm that light skin, hair and eyes were present at least tens of thousands of years ago on Neanderthals, who lived in Eurasia for 500,000 years.

Who besides me will actually READ all five of those sources? It's not unlikely that the original editor who contributed the sentences had racist motives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:304:cda0:9220:c1ea:12f4:f079:be78 (talk • contribs)

I'm not sure what the argument is about, but the genetics people are stating that Neanderthals gave the homo sapiens light skin and light eyes over a period of time.ie blue and green eyes. Not sure why that would upset anyone or be a controversial idea. https://www.eupedia.com/europe/neanderthal_facts_and_myths.shtml

Delete "Caucasian," substitute "of European descent."

Caucasian means "from the region surrounding the Caucasus Mountains." The relevant text is actually referring to "white" individuals, i.e. people of European descent. The phenomenon by which "Caucasian" morphed into "white" is based in nineteenth-century thought that privileged the Caucasian as "special" or "exemplary" whites. There is no reason to use the term now as a formal why to refer to whites. By Misplaced Pages's own sourcing, the term is "an obsolete category for race."

https://en.wikipedia.org/Caucasian_race

Why one earth can't I edit the text for eye color? Is it a controversial subject? 2600:1700:5B2C:A090:3111:682E:5CD6:AF1 (talk) 21:24, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Those violet impressive eyes that God gifted to Türkmen race , Mustafa Kemal Atatürk is one of the best example of these fascinating and wonderful eyes in known history. 88.230.9.99 (talk) 08:18, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 March 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please can you remove the photo of Daniel Craig with the caption "Actor Daniel Craig has the most common eye color in the U.K. as of 2014: (blue: 48%, green: 30%, brown: 22%)." This is not true. The linked source is a Times article which quotes a project by 'ScotlandsDNA'. This is a disgraced company, not a scientific source. The myth that blue eyes are more common in the UK now is widespread but untrue. All other studies suggest brown is the most common (even in Scotland!). Green is likely to be the least common. Please see the links below. I would be really grateful if you could remove this misinformation. Thank you for your help.

1) Dubious practices and claims by this company: https://www.mdpi.com/2313-5778/2/4/47 2) Brown is the most common eye colour in UK as of 2019: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1872497318303387 3) Brown is possibly even the most common eye colour in Scotland (small sample from 2009): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2810292/ 217.155.204.10 (talk) 15:09, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Done ― novov (t c) 05:19, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Gender and Sex are not interchangable, Edit request!

The article says that "gender" is a deciding factor in what color a person's eyes are. The word gender links to the wikipedia page about gender which is defined as sociocultural. This term should be replaced by "sex" instead because its referring to the biological sexes instead. 152.7.255.202 (talk) 15:55, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Eye Color and Low-Light Vision Studies

Under the "Impact on Vision" section, there's no mention of findings related to vision in low-light. I'd add it myself but this is yet another gatekept article (rather ironic for a wiki site, no?)

You can find a reference to a study at the University of Copenhagen here: https://katrinapaulson.medium.com/study-suggests-people-with-blue-eyes-can-read-better-in-dim-lighting-01b39d1862a6

…and to a study at Liverpool John Moore University here: https://www.ljmu.ac.uk/about-us/news/articles/2024/2/7/blue-eyes

…as well as a passing reference to the findings in a section marked "Does eye color affect night sky vision?" here: https://www.almanac.com/seeing-in-the-dark

While these aren't absolutely conclusive, I would argue they're no less substantiated or valid than the portion referring to the study on "Correlation of eye color on self-paced and reactive motor performance." Gaius315 (talk) 16:00, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Hardly a "gatekept" article. It's protected from random driveby vandalism; once you've made a total of ten edits on Misplaced Pages, you'll be able to add these references yourself. --jpgordon 19:17, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Tommygunn7886's removal of content

Tommygunn7886 recently removed content from this article, with the following edit summary:

“

User was putting his own implicaions upon a study in which the only group involved were people of Spanish origin. The study did not show any correlation or causation for populations at large."

”

I disagree. Martinez-Cardenas et al. did not just base their observations about gender asymmetries in eye color on their own data alone. This is also supported by data from several independent sources that they cited.

From the abstract and the meat of the study:

These results are also corroborated by the revision and meta-analysis of data from previously published eye colour genetic studies in several Caucasian populations, which significantly support the fact that males are more likely to have blue eyes than females
(...)
This effect is what may explain the fact that there seem to be comparatively higher frequencies of blue-eyed males than blue-eyed females in populations of European origin such as Iceland , Holland , Australia or Poland , as well as in this study (see Fig. 2).

Tommygunn's explanation for the blanket removal of the eye color gender asymmetry would appear to be faulty.

I nevertheless agree that a specific data point taken from the Spanish sample (such as that only 54% of Spanish women with the SNPs for blue eyes actually had blue eyes...) doesn't belong in the article. That was rather sloppy editing on my part. Removed. - A Rainbow Footing It (talk) 23:54, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

I find this singling out of me for attempting to correct the page based on the information that was on the page highly problematic and troubling. I would like a moderator to intervene, this is very threatening and unsettling behavior. Tommygunn7886 (talk) 00:04, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

@Tommygunn7886: please provide an adequate explanation for your reversion of this content. "Problematic" is not an acceptable reason for removing reliably sourced content, per any of Misplaced Pages's guidelines. You have repeatedly said that Martinez-Cadenas, et al is based on a Spanish sample, yet as I've shown above, their observations are based on a number of studies from Europe and Australia. Furthermore, Martinez-Cadenas, et al aren't the only authors to observe this:

Several research groups have demonstrated that females have a darker eye color than males, given the same SNP profile (Martinez-Cadenas et al., 2013; Pietroni et al., 2014; Pospiech et al., 2016)."

Edit warring is severely disruptive to Misplaced Pages's project and costs people a lot of time. Please think twice before you edit. A Rainbow Footing It (talk) 03:44, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Please stop attacking me personlly. It is extremely inappropriate to call me out by name over this talk feature. You are also acting severely transphobic and I do not like to throw around such an accusation lightly, especially to one who I assume by reading your description is also part of the LGBTQ+ community or is an ally. But your language is deeply harmful to trans community by acting as if ones gender or sexual identity can determine their physical appearance. Trans folk exist and we do NOT fall into outdated heteronormative ideas of gender or sexual identity. Please do not keep messaging me on my own page either with threats of being blocked, you also have a low number of posts like my account and you do not have admin privilages, you are simply trying to keep a trans man silenced on auch an important topic to the trans community. I sincerely hope the good admins here will side witj trans rights over bigotry. Tommygunn7886 (talk) 04:00, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

@Tommygunn7886: please refrain from making these ridiculous allegations, and assume WP:GOODFAITH, as I have. No one has attacked you and none of these studies are transphobic. You'll also be called out at the talk page for your edits; that's par for the course. A Rainbow Footing It (talk) 04:34, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

It is indeed transphobic because the implication is that gender identity is an inherent genetic trait.

I have looked through your other edits and you have made NUMEROUS edits on pages purporting that white males and Asian females are the most desireable of each respective gender. You have also made posts stating that black females are the least desired gender. You are clearly a white supremacist troll. You do not belong editing on wikipedia. Tommygunn7886 (talk) 04:54, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

It is indeed transphobic because the implication is that gender identity is an inherent genetic trait.

@Tommygunn7886: no it isn't. In fact, these studies have nothing to do with gender identity. The studies have said that a phenotypical trait (eye color) is often different from what would be expected based on an individual's genetics. In other words, gender sometimes overrides genetics:

Several research groups have demonstrated that females have a darker eye color than males, given the same SNP profile (Martinez-Cadenas et al., 2013; Pietroni et al., 2014; Pospiech et al., 2016)."

And regardless; it's not our business to decide that a source should be removed from an article because of whatever we think it implies (see WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS).

Finally, I'm asking you to take back your silly allegation that I'm a "white supremacist", bybstriking it out or deleting it. Thank you. A Rainbow Footing It (talk) 05:07, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

gended is a social construct there is nothijg biological about it. Men can have vaginas and women can have penises. It doesn't make any sense that eye color could be more or less prevalent on one of the genders based on this information. The idea of gender or sex being biological is based on outdated white heteronormative studies that are not legitimate or accurate. Tommygunn7886 (talk) 05:53, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

The implication that white males and Asian females are more desireable than folx of other races is quite frankly problematic and incorrect, and it is in fact blatant white supremacy. Please educate yourself, I am a black trans male and what you are claiming is highly offensive and simply wrong. Tommygunn7886 (talk) 05:55, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

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