Misplaced Pages

Talk:Nicolaus Copernicus

Article snapshot taken from Wikipedia with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Lowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs) at 16:52, 15 May 2024 (Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:Nicolaus Copernicus/Archive 7) (bot). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 16:52, 15 May 2024 by Lowercase sigmabot III (talk | contribs) (Archiving 2 discussion(s) to Talk:Nicolaus Copernicus/Archive 7) (bot)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Nicolaus Copernicus article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs· FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7Auto-archiving period: 2 months 
This  level-3 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.
WikiProject iconAstronomy Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Astronomy, which collaborates on articles related to Astronomy on Misplaced Pages.AstronomyWikipedia:WikiProject AstronomyTemplate:WikiProject AstronomyAstronomy
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconBiography: Arts and Entertainment / Science and Academia / Core
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group (assessed as Top-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the science and academia work group (assessed as Top-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is listed on the project's core biographies page.
WikiProject iconChristianity: Saints / Catholicism / Anglicanism / Lutheranism Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Saints (assessed as Mid-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Catholicism (assessed as Low-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Anglicanism (assessed as Mid-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Lutheranism (assessed as Low-importance).
WikiProject iconEconomics Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Economics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Economics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EconomicsWikipedia:WikiProject EconomicsTemplate:WikiProject EconomicsEconomics
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconFormer countries: Prussia
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country
Taskforce icon
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Prussia, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.
WikiProject iconHistory of Science Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is part of the History of Science WikiProject, an attempt to improve and organize the history of science content on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. You can also help with the History of Science Collaboration of the Month.History of ScienceWikipedia:WikiProject History of ScienceTemplate:WikiProject History of Sciencehistory of science
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconPhilosophy: Philosophers / Science / Medieval Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Misplaced Pages.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
Associated task forces:
Taskforce icon
Philosophers
Taskforce icon
Philosophy of science
Taskforce icon
Medieval philosophy
WikiProject iconPhysics: Biographies / History High‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Physics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Physics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PhysicsWikipedia:WikiProject PhysicsTemplate:WikiProject Physicsphysics
HighThis article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
This article is supported by Biographies Taskforce.
This article is supported by History Taskforce.
WikiProject iconPoland Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Poland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Poland on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PolandWikipedia:WikiProject PolandTemplate:WikiProject PolandPoland
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconReligion Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Misplaced Pages's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
Former good article nomineeNicolaus Copernicus was a Natural sciences good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 18, 2006Good article nomineeNot listed
On this day...Facts from this article were featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on February 19, 2017, February 19, 2021, and February 19, 2024.
This page is affected by the Gdańsk (Danzig) Vote. The following rules apply in the case of disputes:
  • For Gdańsk, use the name Danzig between 1308 and 1945
  • For Gdańsk, use the name Gdańsk before 1308 and after 1945
  • In biographies of clearly German persons, the name should be used in the form Danzig (Gdańsk) and later Danzig exclusively
  • In biographies of clearly Polish persons, the name should be used in the form Gdańsk (Danzig) and later Gdańsk exclusively.
  • For Gdansk and other locations that share a history between Germany and Poland, the first reference of one name in an article should also include a reference to other names, e.g. Danzig (now Gdańsk, Poland) or Gdańsk (Danzig). An English language reference that primarily uses this name should be provided on the talk page if a dispute arises.
  • Reverts to conform with community consensus are excluded from the three-revert rule (3RR). Only the place names can be reverted exempt from the 3RR according to the outcome of this vote, additional changes fall again under the 3RR. Please use descriptive edit summaries.
  • Persistent reverts against community consensus despite multiple warnings may be dealt with according to the rules in Misplaced Pages:Dealing with vandalism. In case of doubt, assume good faith and do not bite newcomers.

The detailed vote results and the vote itself can be found on Talk:Gdansk/Vote. This vote has ended; please do not vote anymore. Comments and discussions can be added to Talk:Gdansk/Vote/discussion anytime. This template {{Gdansk-Vote-Notice}} can be added on the talk page of affected articles if necessary.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:


Archives
Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7




This page has archives. Sections older than 60 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 7 sections are present.

1497:Canon of Frauenburg

The current WP article refers of his son Andreas in the role of Augustianin canon of the Cathedral of Frauenburg. But the same charge took to Nicolaus, in 1497, when he was in Italy yet (source: Holmes Charles Nevers, Popular Astronomy, Vol. 24, p. 219, in SAO/NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)).

The same information is also provided by Smith, David Eugene (July 1, 1917). "Medicine and Mathematics in the Sixteenth Century" (PDF). Ann Med Hist. 1 (2): 125–140. OCLC 12650954. PMC 7927718. PMID 33943138. Archived (PDF) from the original on May 15, 2021. Retrieved July 15, 2021. (here cited p. 129). This book dates back to 1917 and is also an alternative source about the Copernicus' masters of mathematics and astronomy: Peuerbach, Regiomontanus, Domenico Maria, and Brudzewski. All of them are actually sourced by a unique monography (Dobrzycki and Hajdukiewicz (1969)). Regards, Theologian81sp

A monumental scandal

An enormous bulk of evidence about Copernicus having been ethnically German and of Polonising German topography has been "archived". The present article carefully avoids the terms German or Polish for the ethnicity of the man because the evidence is clear that he was German - with a German father and a German mother, who will have taught him the German and not the Polish language. And the article Polonises all place names in Prussia that got Polish names only in the 20th century, but misses out on Danzig. - A monumental scandal and a disgusting disgrace. 2001:9E8:25F:FD00:E9AB:E4CF:D944:B901 (talk) 23:21, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

True, but both sides have valid arguments, it's best to leave nationality out of this Crainsaw (talk) 19:55, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
No they don't it's not even a discussion. He was quite obviously ethnically German but wikipedia is leftist political propaganda at it's finest. This site truly has become a disgrace. 178.24.247.43 (talk) 11:47, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
I would say Misplaced Pages is Western-centered and racist towards Eastern and Central Europeans with figures such as Copernicus or Sklodowska-Curie being Westernized in articles (which itself on the main webpage with news and trivia mentions in 90% only West-related things and takes Western perspective. Ergo, it's not international but English/West-centered.
Now not mentioning Copernicus nationality because it's not relevant is fairly silly concerning the fact that somehow other figures of that time like let's say Durer or Caravaggio magically have some nationality. 45.93.75.81 (talk) 20:58, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
The current article represents a hard-earned consensus, after monumental disruption by editors who aggressively espoused competing assertions of nationality. Please don't start that again. Acroterion (talk) 19:59, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
We have been through this. Several times. There are definitive arguments for Copernicus being a loyal subject of the Polish crown in territory ultimately subject to the Polish king - which is a good definition of being Polish. There is the definitive argument of Copernicus subscribing to the German Natio in Bologna and his suriving works in German (and Latin). The rest is more or less speculation (some more, some less). We DO know that this debate runs over centuries now, and finding a consensus here took a decade or two. Just accept him to be in the heritage of both nations, at best a connecting rather then a dividing aspect of history. ASchudak (talk) 06:48, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
He was Half-Polish by birth, German in name, but he lived in Poland, it half because Lived in Poland+Half polsh= Half Polish, and German in name+Half German=Half German Crainsaw (talk) 09:09, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
NO. What's that even supposed to mean? By birth? He was born in a German family in a German build, German inhabited city. You people are insane. 178.24.247.43 (talk) 11:49, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
It is likely his father was a Germanized Pole, he also spent years in Polish cities and universities, such as Jagiellonian University in Krakow. Crainsaw (talk) 11:54, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
The definition of leftist isn't anything you happen to disagree with. In fact, the view of Copernicus as Polish is popular with the Right in Eastern Europe. TFD (talk) 12:02, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
This is nonsense. His father Mikołaj Kopernik, after whom Copernicus got his name and surname, was a Pole from Kraków, his mother Barbara Watzenrode was a German from Toruń. Copernicus himself was born in Polish Prussia, spent his childhood there, then graduated from the Kraków Academy and later several other European universities, then returned to Poland and actively fought against the germanization of Prussia by the German Teutonic Order. He took part in the Polish-Teutonic War of 1519–1521 on the side of Poland. You can't make a full German out of him, no matter how much you want to, don't rewrite history. Utryss (talk) 16:50, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
>"This is nonsense."
Is it necessary to start your contribution this way? You could simply present your source. Especially when...
>"His father Mikołaj Kopernik, after whom Copernicus got his name and surname, was a Pole from Kraków"
... makes these sources obligatory. The problem is that there is no primary source that can confirm this, just speculation from various scholars, who often have their bias - unless I am mistaken and new evidence was unveiled. Coming from Krakow is no proof of cultural heritage with around 20% Germans there at that time.
There is not much that we DO know for sure, and I already listed it. It is insufficient to decide one way or the other, and Misplaced Pages can but record it this way.
Both Poland and Germany had multicultural states on their territory back around 1500, with cultural Poles living in Germany and cultural Germans in Poland - a status that creates many people in between and that continues one way or the other since today. If anything, Copernicus ambiguity in that regard embodies this bond. ASchudak (talk) 12:02, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
Neitzer Germany nor Poland had ever multicultural states on their territories. 2001:9E8:25E:FB00:B8D2:A8A4:86D7:776 (talk) 09:23, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
The HRE, the Empire, covered Frisians, French, Italian, Danish and many Slavian areas. There were also many German areas outside of it.
The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth included, beside Germans and Hungarians, a multitude of Slavic cultures from the Baltics through Ruthenia to the Black Sea. ASchudak (talk) 06:05, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
The Polonising of the names of German cities and regions that became occupied by Poles only in the 20th century is infantile, mad and disgusting. 2001:9E8:25E:FB00:B8D2:A8A4:86D7:776 (talk) 09:21, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
And this is not a forum for nationalist complaints. Acroterion (talk) 12:29, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
If in doubt, use the regulations of the Gdańsk (Danzig) Vote. See the intro of this article. ASchudak (talk) 06:07, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Why does this article have a section named Controversy?

I think the subsection labeled Controversy, is unclear. Take Isaac Newton, Galileo Galilei, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, Charles Darwin. All these scientists had controversies during their lives. They don't have a dedicated section for those. This has a peculiar feel to it. It should be labeled Controversies during lifetime, or smth similar. There's no controversy about geocentrism. Gamma1138 (talk) 10:46, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Because he´s german. Just see the discussion above. Every German knows that "Nicolaus Copernicus" was born Niklas Koppernigk (a Name not even revealed in this shoddy english article), was definitely German, spoke only german and latin, but the poles just love to get their sticky little fingers on him, because his place of birth happens to be in todays poland (courtesy of Stalin). This is simply an exit "strategy" if the polonisation fails - then a negative narrative like "Controversy" helps to decry the "f###### german". After all, it is widely en vouge in en:wp and the rest of the world to shit on the germans. ;-) 217.80.147.36 (talk) 20:13, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
Simply mad! Johnbod (talk) 20:17, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
Actually Galileo has two different sections called "Controversy over...". He and Copernicus are probably the two most controversial big scientic names. Were Newton and Leibniz actually controversial? Darwin's "controversy" is largely a myth of science, when examined closely. In science his theories were accepted smoothly and rapidly. Johnbod (talk) 20:23, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Silesian roots

"His father was a merchant from Kraków (Krakau) and his mother was the daughter of a wealthy Toruń merchant.[13" But: the father´s side of Upper Silesian and the mother´s side od Lower Silesian origin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:9E8:20D2:E100:4CD2:347F:8EFC:1838 (talk) 20:11, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Why (Krakau)?Sunday Hippie (talk) 23:45, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

References needed

See https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/703410 . This says that Copernicus did not know Hebrew or Arabic. The WP article says he did know Hebrew. 2A00:23C7:9985:1701:FDC4:CEB3:6182:2C52 (talk) 16:25, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

The WP article says Copernicus " had some knowledge of Hebrew."
The reference, Angus Armitage, says Copernicus "probably had some acquaintance with Italian and Hebrew." These do not agree with each other.

Semi-protected edit request on 28 April 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In the "Commemoration" section of the article, in the subsection titled "Poland", in the second paragraph change the " in Poland's third largest city, Łódź." to " in Poland's fourth largest city, Łódź."

In the article the city of Łódź is called Poland's third largest city. In the data provided in the Polish Misplaced Pages (data from 20th July 2023), the population of Łódź city has dropped and currently city of Wrocław has surpassed Łódź in the number of population. BlueBlack22 (talk) 10:59, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

 Done This is also verified and cited on the Łódź page. Jamedeus (talk) 18:58, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

in the Work section, "till" is used in "(or perhaps till his uncle's death on 29 March 1512)" and i believe this should be changed to until Maddybac (talk) 16:46, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 17:30, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Categories: