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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by DYKUpdateBot (talk | contribs) at 00:02, 29 February 2024 (Article appeared on DYK on 29 February 2024, adding {{DYK talk}}). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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A fact from Franz Jakob Späth appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know column on 29 February 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows: Did you know... that Franz Jakob Späth's fortepianos were a favorite of Mozart, but Beethoven refused to play them? A record of the entry may be seen at Misplaced Pages:Recent additions/2024/February. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Franz Jakob Späth.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Misplaced Pages talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 00:47, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

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• Article history

• ... that Franz Jakob Späth's fortepianos were a favorite of Mozart, but refused by Beethoven?
  • ALT1: ...that Franz Jakob Späth's fortepianos were a favorite of Mozart, but Beethoven refused to play them? Source:
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: I have not made any DYK nominations previously (), so I believe I am exempt from the QPQ requirement. Thank you to User:Schminte who suggested this.

Created by Fehufanga (talk). Self-nominated at 13:36, 8 January 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Franz Jakob Späth; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Comment: I find the hook and article a bit confusing. Why did Beethoven refuse to play an instrument made by Späth? Was a personal grudge or did he just dislike the fortepiano? The hook and the article do not make this clear. Also, what is meant by "he improvised on the instrument", as it is a bit ambiguous. Also, in the hook, just saying "refused by Beethoven" isn't as clear as saying "but Beethoven refused to play them". Viriditas (talk) 20:36, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
  • @Viriditas: Junker and Tilman postulated that Beethoven was likely unaccustomed to playing on a Späth piano. improvised here refers to Musical improvisation. I have removed it since it seems only Tilman suggests that Beethoven continued to improvise on the same piano, and have added clarification on Beethoven's refusal.
  • ...that Franz Jakob Späth's fortepianos were a favorite of Mozart, but Beethoven refused to play them? —*Fehufangą (✉ Talk · ✎ Contribs) 04:51, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

@Viriditas: I'm alright with the changes. I understand the confusion, as I myself encountered it when first reading about tangent pianos. Latcham (2004) lists several precursors of the tangent piano (p.156), but no source I found explicitly states that Pantaleon Hebenstreit as the inventor of the tangent piano, nor is the pantaleon ever called a tangent piano anywhere. I have reworded the first paragraph the article about tangent piano. I intend to rework the article entirely in a few months.—*Fehufangą (✉ Talk · ✎ Contribs) 05:55, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

@Fehufanga: Do you want to try coming up with more hooks to choose from, or do you think ALT1 and ALT2 are your best choices for now? Viriditas (talk) 06:13, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

@Viriditas: Apologies, what do you mean by ALT2? I'm striking out ALT0 and will use ALT1 instead. I'll try to get another alt today.—*Fehufangą (✉ Talk · ✎ Contribs) 07:51, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

@Fehufanga: It was a typo. I meant ALT0 and ALT1. Viriditas (talk) 20:15, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

@Viriditas: I think I can work with that. I'll add a bit more content to that part before I propose a new hook.—*Fehufangą (✉ Talk · ✎ Contribs) 11:52, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

If you want to add another hook, ping me, and I'll review it. Article is new enough and was moved to mainspace on Jan. 8 at which time it was long enough and met the requirements. Earwig isn't helpful in this regard due to the sources not being accessible to it for comparison. Sources, for the most part, require subscriptions. Spot checks on the sources that do not, do not reveal any issues. It is noticeable, however, that the interwiki Russian and German sites contain information (infoboxes, tables, images, etc.) that do not appear here, but that has nothing to do with DYK criteria. Image checks out, but one does wonder if a bit more work importing the interwiki info could have allowed the nom to have a top slot hook with an image, which would have resulted in more views. The "Instruments" section has a lot of potential, but I suspect some rearranging and restructuring would improve focus and attention to the subject. In any case, ALT1 is good for length and interest. Again, I am happy to review additional hooks if they arise. GTG. Viriditas (talk) 08:58, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

@Viriditas: Thank you. I had this idea for another hook:

ALT2: ...that Franz Jakob Späth's organ in the Dreieinigkeitskirche, Regensburg, was rebuilt to better fit Bach's music? Source:

This way, the image of the organ in the Dreieinigkeitskirche can be used.—*Fehufangą (✉ Talk · ✎ Contribs) 13:52, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

As for the list of organs in the German Misplaced Pages, I omitted it at first because of the difficulty of accessing sources related to it.—*Fehufangą (✉ Talk · ✎ Contribs) 13:53, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

@Fehufanga: That hook is quite a mouthful. In English, it is common for many churches to have the name "Trinity Church of x", such as Trinity Church of Regensburg. Is that acceptable here, or do you prefer to go with the more authentic German? As for "better fit", the source says "adequate representation", but when you read the details, it's a bit of a mystery. "...the Bach tradition plays a decisive role in the liturgical and Protestant context...The organ builder has to return to registers and timbres, who in the 18th century were finally popular or the stream once mentioned or that arose in its environment." Can you talk about something like in the hook? In other words, what exactly does it mean for the organ to be a "better fit"? Viriditas (talk) 06:34, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

@Fehufanga: In addition to the above, I also recommend shortening the hook so that Johann Sebastian Bach just reads "Bach". It's up to you. But I approve both ALT1 and ALT2. Viriditas (talk) 23:08, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

• ALT1 and ALT2 are good to go. Viriditas (talk) 00:09, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

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