Talk:Marko Marulić - Misplaced Pages

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Croatian language and historical name in use

Few links from library of HAZU
. . Book by Bernardin Splićanin (Bernardin of Split). Pistvle i Evanyelya po sfe godischie harvatschim yazichom stumacena. Novo pristampana i spomgnom priuiyena, po nacinu nouoga Missala nareyena po sfetoy materi Crichui. - Prodayuse v Bnetcih pri sfetomu Xulianu v chgnigara chi darxi zlamen od Macche, 1586.
catalogue search result and scanned first page . Book from 1699. Naredbe od zbora darxave splitske / dane na svitlo od prisuit. i prip. gna gna Stipana Cosmi arkibiskvpa splitskoga inako Solinskoga, poglauice Dalmatie i sue harvuatske zemglie.
and . By Ivan Dražić: Proslavglienje s. Dujma, parvoga archibiskupa solinskoga braniteglja Splieta grada i svoieh darsciavaa sve Harvaske semglje poglavize / Prikasano piesnim slovinskima po Ivannu Drasichju popu Spliechjaninu. Pris. i priposit. g. Stippanu Cosmi archibiskupu splieskomu priklono poklogneno. - U Bnezih : pritiskano po Antonu Bartoli, 1706.
Unknown author. Search result Note: 2n edition?. Pripraugle k s misi, pribogogliubne molitve koje imaju misniczih pria i poslie s. misse govoriti prinesene iz latinskoga u harvaski jezik za lasnost i potribu misnikah Harvachianah. - . - U Mleczi : Po J. Tommasinu, 1747.
I'll translate you the text later. Note: all these texts are church texts, and they were printed in Venice.
Even in Venice from 16th century, and Roman Catholic Church at all, it was clear that Croatia existed; though, at that time, under foreign rulers, but still, existed as country ("harvuatske zemglie" = "Croatia"). Kubura 09:14, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Nonsences by Giovanni Giove

   1) Marco Marulo is referencied

As well as Jackie Chan , Bruce Lee.... So what?? Artistic names for the foreigners... Do you know they their real names ? Off course not, because you can not pronounce them!!

   2) Marulo was not born in Croatia but in Dalmatia.

In that case Dante Alighieri , Michealngelo ,da Vinci were not italian artists, scientists at all . they were not born in Italy , neither Italy existed in time. And nobody called Rome, Venice, Florence ,Naples as Italian

   2) he wrote Italian poems

your counting is not too good! 3 .

if you are saying the truth and Marulić was writting in toscany language ..... George Bernard Shaw, James Joyce have have been writting in English , but they were not English.

Btw, there was no Italy at that time. Neither Split was italian ever . So these his (never unrevealed) poems might belong to Dalmatia, Croatia, etc. Surely not to Italy.

   3) the old names of the cities were italian (see wikirules for historical names)

Another fake !! Old names were either Illyric, either Greek or Latin.

Surely not Italian !!

   4) You, uncivil, do not insult!--Giovanni Giove 21:07, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Here we go ! Bingo!!! a high -class civilized irredenta boy... Looking for uncivilized:take a look at a mirror!!

Is there any way to stop those two guys:Giorgio Orsini and Giovanni Giove?? Just spitting out their irredenta propaganda. and at the same time accusing for the things they are doing themselves??

Or we should bring here Roberto Menia

--Anto 10:02, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

University of Padova

Here is a website of the Italian University of Padova about Marko Marulić. http://marulianum.storia.unipd.it/

On that are list his Croatian works (Opere croate) and Latin works (Opere latine). No any mention of his works in Italian (Toscan or Venetian ) language.

No mather that in the biography of him in Italian is mentiooend his italianized name , the name of the article Marko Marulić (1450-1524)

So much about Italianhood of Marko Marulić. lol --Anto 05:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

In the website you are talking about it is written "compose le sue opere in tre lingue: latino, croato e italiano". Just at the beginning.
Anyway the problem of is nationality is easly solved by the words of Francesco Natali.
As we can read by his words Marulo's family had a mixt eritage (his mother's family name was "Alberti" but her name was "Dobriza") but his mother language was "illirian" (=croat).
So, if we consider the mother language, we should have no doubt to consider him as a croat; a croat with also italian origin.

Well , he probably was making experiments with poems in Italian. But , obviously that part of his opus was not neither so important As latin and Croatian. I guess that was the reason for not being mentioned there at all by professors from Padua. --Anto (talk) 19:20, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Internal links

Could somebody of the administrators put the internal link to the Italian wiki article about MaruliĆ ???

http://it.wikipedia.org/Marcus_Marulus

--Anto 16:09, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

portrait

I found this drawing on the Findagrave.com (link in the article), can anyone check authenticity of this image and see the copyright/use for it? Er-vet-en (talk) 15:06, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

I now know it's not authentic, but an early 20th century depiction. Whoops. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.138.84.68 (talk) 13:35, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

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Croatian Works Section

"American historian John Van Antwerp Fine, Jr. emphasizes that Marulić belongs to a group of humanists and clerics placed in the "Croat" camp who, at least at the time they wrote their texts, did not seem to have a Croatian ethnic identity."

The reference quoting John Van Antwerp Fine, Jr. shouldn't be in the article considering it does not contribute any useful information except to discredit any reference to Marko Marulić being a Croat. It should be noted that Venetian and other authors of Italian ethnicity only wrote in Italian or Latin during the existence of the Venetian Republic. Marko Marulić wrote his major work 'Judita', stating in the foreword, '...u versih haruacchi slozhena' - '...arranged in Croatian verses'. The adjective 'haruacchi' is important as it shows Croatian as the language he chose to write in - 'hrvatski' in modern Croatian. Had he been anything other than a Croat, he wouldn't have chosen to write in a language he himself called 'Croatian'. A high percentage of people in Dalmatia at the time were illiterate, and Venetians only spoke Italian and Latin, therefore Marko Marulić would have had to have good reason to call his language Croatian and to write in a language that would, in the eyes of Venetians, have been obscure, alien and of no importance. There would be no reason to call his language Croatian were it not for the fact that he was a Croat. When Marko Marulić was born, Split was already a part of the Venetian Republic and therefore no one can argue that he chose to call his language 'Croatian' based on the political entity he lived in. He lived in the Republic of Venice and he chose to write in Croatian, a Slavic language that Venetians couldn't read or understand. What would make a writer of his prominence do so unless he personally felt a connection with Croatian ethnicity.

It should be noted that in his work, John Van Antwerp Fine, Jr. writes a conclusion - not a fact. There is no evidence or reference in any of the works by Marko Marulić where he explicitly stated that he did or did not feel Croatian. He did state his language as Croatian however. This would be akin to saying that because, during his lifetime, Leonardo Da Vinci never stated he felt Italian, he was therefore not Italian. It should be noted that in a critical review written by professor Neven Budak of the University of Zagreb, Budak (https://hrcak.srce.hr/49246?lang=en) stated "ideological prejudices", "omission of historical facts" and "preconceived conclusions" about John Van Antwerp's work partly because in the book John Van Antwerp exposes his personal bias regarding former Yugoslavia which shouldn't be a part of academic work of this nature. Furthermore John Van Antwerp Fine, Jr has family members with links to former Yugoslavia that could have influenced his writing.

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