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Hog Farm

The following discussion is preserved as a request for adminship that has been automatically placed on hold pending a decision as to the outcome. Please do not modify the text. The result of the discussion will be posted soon.

Voice your opinion on this candidate (talk page) (53/0/4); Scheduled to end 02:47, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Monitors: theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 02:52, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Nomination

Hog Farm (talk · contribs) – Well, I'm Hog Farm, or HF as I'll usually section FAC reviews. I passed a prior RFA (Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship/Hog Farm) in January 2021, and was an administrator until I resigned in September 2023 during a rough stretch IRL. Things have sorted out for me since then, and having seen the continued admin drain, I think it's time to get back in the saddle. I will note that for the forseeable future, I expect to pretty much always have lower activity levels in the summer/fall due to how my work schedule operates.

For full disclosure - I've got a few things from my editing history that'll probably come up so I'll go ahead and explain these things from the get-go. In the prior RFA, there were some concerns about overeager CSD tagging from 2020 during my NPP training. Aside from some vague memories of doing some non-controversial CSD deletions as an admin, and a few things at my CSD log, I've mostly stayed away from this area since. I've kept my nose clean with that, and I don't intend to do significant NPP work.

Additionally, some elements of how I handled Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/M-144 (1937–1939 Michigan highway) is not my proudest moment, as well as elements of Misplaced Pages:Featured article review/M-28 Business (Ishpeming–Negaunee, Michigan)/archive1, particularly this edit summary. I still hold that an article that can be sourced only to maps is not notable and should be redirected to a list and/or deleted, and I still believe that there were original research issues with parts of the FAR article in the state it was in when the FAR was opened, but I got a bit riled up at let it show to much. I made an informal pledge somewhere (I don't remember when/where) to stay away from that topic matter, and I don't recall any significant editing or discussion participation in that realm since then. If this RFA passes, I do not intend to perform any administrative actions related to US Roads subject matter. Hog Farm Talk 02:20, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Misplaced Pages as an administrator. Please answer these questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. Why are you interested in becoming an administrator?
A: It's twofold - we've had a bit of a drain administrative manpower lately, and I really think it's important to have content-focused admins represented as well. The last several years of my editing history have mainly focused on content, and while we've got a good number of skillsets represented in the admin corps, I think we really need to have content-focused administrators, since that's what the whole point of the encyclopedia is. Hog Farm Talk 02:32, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
2. What are your best contributions to Misplaced Pages, and why?
A: My user page lists 142 articles that I've brought to GA, and 33 to FA (these lists overlap). Landis's Missouri Battery is my weakest FA; I'm about equally proud of the rest of them. On the GA side, my first two are the worst (Batted ball and Battle of Wilson's Creek); I actually self-GAR'd the baseball one awhile back and I keep intending to rewrite Wilson's Creek. Battle of Poison Spring might be the best one overall, as that covers the most controversial topic matter. Marmaduke–Walker duel, Stonewall Jackson's arm, and Daniel Sickles's leg were the most fun to write. Hog Farm Talk 02:32, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
A: See the final paragraph of the self-nomination statement for where things didn't go well. I think successfully bringing 33 articles through the FAC process shows a good ability to "play nice with the other kids" as some of my teacher relatives would say. The one significant involvement with an arbcom case was Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Carlossuarez46 in which I was simply one of the primary witnesses to another editor's problematic behavior. I've stayed off of the drama boards (ANI, AN, etc.). Hog Farm Talk 02:32, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

You may ask optional questions below. There is a limit of two questions per editor. Multi-part questions are disallowed, but you are allowed to ask follow-up questions related to previous questions.

Optional question from Pppery

4. Why did you start a new RfA rather than just asking for the tools back at BN?
A: It just didn't feel right to me to ask for that. I frankly kinda expected the resignation to be permanent when I resigned, so it felt to me like that chapter had already been closed. Also, I understand why there's the option to request the tools back at BN, but that feels to back-doorsy to me. Hog Farm Talk 03:02, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Optional question from Red-tailed hawk

5. Have you read "On the backrooms"? If so, what are your thoughts on it?
A:

Optional question from Bugghost

6. Does the current 48-0 support-oppose ratio give you enough confidence to just go to BN and nip this in the bud? Do you have a support threshold in mind that, if reached, you would end the RFA early - or do you intend to run this for the full week?
A:


Discussion

RfAs for this user:

Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review his contributions before commenting.

Numerated (#) "votes" in the "Support", "Oppose", and "Neutral" sections may only be placed by editors with an extended confirmed account. All other comments are welcome in the "general comments" section.

RfA/RfB toolbox
Counters
Analysis
Cross-wiki
Support
  1. I swear to God I was just about to encourage you to ask for the bits back. charlotte 02:47, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    For what it's worth, I fully agree with Kline re this being a "timesink". I'd support mandatory re-RfAs after a certain period of time, but alas... charlotte 03:59, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  2. First! HOO HOO HOO! LONG LIVE HOG FARM! Panini! • 🥪 02:56, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  3. Support—At first I was a bit confused. I thought to myself, "Wait, wasn't Hog Farm already an administrator?" Well, yes. In fact, I supported his original RfA. This is essentially a reconfirmation. Could he have just posted at the bureaucrats' noticeboard? Sure, he could've. But if it's "too back-doorsy" for his liking (to directly quote his answer to Q4), I have no problem reaffirming my support for him being trusted with adminship. Nothing I've seen from him has ever convinced me that it was misplaced. Kurtis 03:11, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  4. Support, of course, but like Barkeep I'm not a huge fan of making RfAs like this standard practice. —Ingenuity (t • c) 03:12, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  5. (ec) As per established community consensus, I don't think we need to be back here. That being said, as HF has indicated their hesitancy to use the BN channel, and they do not appear to have left under a cloud, I feel like supporting here is the best way to reaffirm the earlier consensus that was their first RFA.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 03:13, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  6. Support. To anyone saying that "this is a waste of time": is it really? No one is forced or expected to participate in an RfA. The fact that Hog Farm has made this RfA in the first place is a great way to get community consensus on their standing and not to "backdoor" (his words, not mine) his way back to admin tools. His answer to Q4 is a great answer and I'm very glad to support a former admin who went out of their way to ask again. Kline • talk • contribs 03:15, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    To anyone saying that "this is a waste of time" is either a straw man (no one has said it's a waste of time as of this comment) or a mis-characterization of my position. I said this RfA is a demand of a lot of the community's time. Hog Farm is asking for lots of people - most likely above 200 - to weigh in on his fitness for RfA. That is a lot of editor time. No editor is wasting their time by participating here. We are all volunteers. But Hog Farm could have respected the community consensus about this - admin can ask for it back by right - rather than saying "I want hundreds of people to weigh in". Editor time is incredibly valuable and should be respected. I think Hog Farm is a good admin who we'd be lucky to have as an admin again. But we're now at a second RfA that is ignoring community consensus that asks for lots of editor time in response and that is, for me, a bad thing for our community. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 03:20, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    The support is not intended to be aiming at anyone in particular, hopefully I didn't cause any bad blood to happen, it's just a general resentment I have from the previous RfA that happened under this pretense (WTT). I do recall that there were comments under the "this is a waste of time" idea, and to be saying that Hog Farm is "demanding" everyone's time by taking ~5 minutes out of someone's day, maybe even less or perhaps more depending on how wordy you wanna get, is a bit absurd, and like I said before, no one is required to weigh in. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your point of " is ignoring community consensus" but his last RfA was back in 2021, and there was no such thing as recall until just about now. Wouldn't hurt to get another consensus to make sure you are fit for the position.. I would imagine. Cheers, Kline • talk • contribs 03:33, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  7. Support, and also strongly approve going for a new RfA rather than just asking for the tools back – a good way to see if community trust is still present, and reaffirming trust in someone about to get an important toolset is not a waste of time in my opinion. Also linking to Misplaced Pages:Consensus can change for an argument in favor of this RfA being a positive thing. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 03:21, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  8. Hog Farm, you were the first person I ever supported for adminship. I am thrilled to do so again; welcome back. HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:21, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  9. Support No concerns since last RfA; trusted. JJPMaster (she/they) 03:26, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  10. * Pppery * it has begun... 03:29, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  11. Same as they ever were. ミラP@Miraclepine 03:31, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  12. I honestly thought you were already a admin, have seen them around, clearly qualified per the participation in FAC. Sohom (talk) 03:32, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  13. Per this. Epicgenius (talk) 03:34, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  14. Support clear net positive.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 03:39, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  15. Support Thought they were still and admin. Look forward to them returning to the ranks. Mdewman6 (talk) 03:45, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  16. Support I appreciate that Hog Farm is assuring they still have the support of the community rather than treating adminship like an entitlement. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 04:02, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  17. after answer to Q4 ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" (hihi) 04:04, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  18. Support. Of course. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 04:05, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  19. Support glad to see this. Enjoyed reviewing their work at FAC. Full confidence in them as an administrator. Elli (talk | contribs) 04:13, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  20. Support Thanks for volunteering! – DreamRimmer (talk) 04:28, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  21. Support ofcourse! – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 05:13, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  22. Support Hogfarm does great work over at MILHIST and I have no doubts that they will be a net positive on their return to the admin position - Dumelow (talk) 05:21, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  23. Support hoping things have been better for you; welcome back! Staraction (talk | contribs) 05:29, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  24. Support. Volten001 05:35, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  25. Support I see no problems here. EggRoll97 05:49, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  26. Support Chetsford (talk) 06:33, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  27. Support The fact that you brought your own GA to GAR is what sold me then I read the rest of the things you wrote. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 06:36, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  28. Support No doubts. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 06:40, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  29. Support on the merits but can we not make these a habit please. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 06:55, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  30. Support but should have just asked for the tools back instead of an RfA- consensus is not gonna change on the median admin in just three years. DoctorWhoFan91 (talk) 06:59, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  31. Support Obvious support The AP (talk) 07:09, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  32. Support because I did before and have no reason not to again. Daniel Case (talk) 07:49, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  33. Support No significant issues that I can see. Anyone who claims this "wastes" community time always has the option of not participating in this discussion. We are however, approaching the limit where discussions on "Does this waste community time" is wasting more time than the reconfirmations themselves. Soni (talk) 07:52, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  34. Support. They are already experienced as an admin, we do indeed need content-focused admins, and although the crat door would have been non-problematic the answer to Q4 confirms my confidence in their integrity. —David Eppstein (talk) 07:53, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  35. Support. Excellent candidate. There were no issues last time they were an admin, and there is nothing to suggest there will be any in future. Even though they could have reclaimed their tools by request, going for reconfirmation is a mark of integrity. - SchroCat (talk) 08:04, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  36. Support very happily. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 09:24, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  37. Support - What do you mean you aren't one already?--NØ 09:27, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  38. Support - We need reliable sensible people like HF in the admin corps, and the content chops are also a boon. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:34, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  39. Support Good luck! I love Pasta!Polygnotus (talk) 09:50, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  40. Support, Good candidate. ~🌀 Ampil 09:56, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  41. Support Why not. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:38, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  42. Support; I see some self-reflection here that is definitely welcome in a sysop. :) Hijérovīt | Ⰱč 11:20, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  43. Support. No issues, deserves the tools back. Bastun 11:33, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  44. Support, and kudos for an open and honest laying-out of past mistakes -- none of which give me any hesitation. UndercoverClassicist 11:41, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  45. Support, and I believe this is a good use of our time. Kablammo (talk) 12:20, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  46. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 12:35, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  47. Support- Absolutely. Welcome back to the mop department.   Aloha27  talk  12:53, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  48. Support ~Darth Stabro 13:31, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  49. Support - no concerns. arcticocean ■ 14:04, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  50. Support. Nomination? We don't need no stinkin' nomination. Go for it! Randy Kryn (talk) 14:07, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  51. Support LGTM. RfA issues should be discussed somewhere else and IMO no meta-issue should ever cause an RfA to fail.--A09|(talk) 14:15, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  52. Support. I see some people taking issue with this being a waste of community time. Perhaps so, but this is my time to waste and I'm happy to waste it supporting HF's request for remopification. If this is the worst waste of time I experience today, it'll be a good day. RoySmith (talk) 14:19, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  53. Support. Whoop, best Misplaced Pages news I have had this year. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:22, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
Oppose


Neutral
  1. Neutral. Sorry to be a downer, but are these unnecessary re-RFAs a good use of community time? I would personally rather these not become common. Seems inefficient. –Novem Linguae (talk) 06:07, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  2. I feel strongly this is not good use of community time. I also don't think it's an efficient way to get feedback. Emailing or messages other people in the areas you've been active as anadmin is more likely to give you actionable feedback. Only positive opinions of HF fwiw. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 08:05, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  3. Just ask for the tools back at BN. I don't like this new trend. Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:16, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  4. Don't get me wrong, Hog Farm is a good guy from what I've heard of him. However, he forgot that a notification happens on the watchlist page every time a RfA gets opened and this is simply a waste of community time (time that I would rather spend working on RfD and reviewing articles) User:Someone-123-321 (I contribute, Talk page so SineBot will shut up) 12:28, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
General comments
  • As is becoming routine, I've signed up to be this RfA's monitor :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 02:53, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    Saluting face emoji charlotte 03:03, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    Headed to bed for the night :) everything looks pretty okay for now, but I hope this RfA doesn't turn into an RfC on the practice of voluntary reconfirmation in general. I think it's better for us to discuss that at policy-oriented venues. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 07:12, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  • It is not "back doorsey" to follow policy and procedure that a consensus of the community supports and yet another "I demand a lot of time of the community to do something the community has said is mine by right" RfA is not a pattern I want. I really like Hog, just as I liked Worm, but I seriously considered leaving this in Oppose for clearly failing to respect project consensus and doing so in a way that spends a lot of time of the community's. At least Worm made it a promise when handing in the tools. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 03:07, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    • Funny, I see it as a sign of integrity from the candidate and something to be praised. No-one has to !vote or comment here, so those not wanting to !vote at a re-confirmation can just save the 30 seconds editing time and click away from the page. If you think it's a actual problem somehow, then an RfC on the question is an open pathway I guess. - SchroCat (talk) 08:12, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
      Yeah, I don't get how this is a waste of time. It really doesn't take that long to review an RfA. ~Darth Stabro 13:30, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Admittedly, I do not understand concerns that this re-RfA is somehow "ignoring community consensus" whatsoever. Hog Farm literally said that he understand why there's the option to request the tools back at BN, meaning that he acknowledges that that is an option, but have chosen by his own volition not to use it. Is it somehow against consensus to do something that is permitted by consensus, but not the default? Is it against consensus for an administrator to want to ensure that they have the continued approval of the community before unilaterally deciding that they're going to be admins again? If anything, this decision might be more aligned with the well-established consensus of WP:ADMINACCT than simply re-requesting at BN. There is no consensus that prohibits what is being done here. No policies or procedures are being violated here. If anyone wants to change that, there's always a way. JJPMaster (she/they) 03:37, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    The admin isn't unilaterally deciding they get to be an admin again. They ask the CRATS. The crats then follow a procedure, endorsed and regularly refined by the community, to make sure that person still has consensus to be an administrator. But even setting that aside, imagine an admin who regularly finds new articles about a real person, individual animal, commercial or non-commercial organization, web content, or organized event that does not indicate why its subject is important or significant. The admin decides "I want to get community consensus to have accountability and so I will nominate for deletion rather than speedy delete"; the AfDs then overwhelmingly endorse the deletion. If this happens a couple times people would shrug and say "how quirky". But if it became a pattern people would start to suggest the admin either delete them as A7 or tag them so some other admin could consider it. By the nature of RfA no single admin can get to that pattern but as a community that same thing can happen. Editor time is incredibly valuable and to a small degree it's elastic - if not for this ridiculous RfA I would not be spending time on wiki right now - but it's not completely elastic. And so individuals thinking carefully about what demands for community time they make is one I would like to see editors think about before embarking on high profile asks. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 03:59, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    "if not for this ridiculous RfA I would not be spending time on wiki right now": that's your decision, no-one else's. You could have ignored it, or spent five minutes starting a centralised RfC on the question, but it's down to you if you want to argue needlessly on something that's going ahead anyway. - SchroCat (talk) 08:12, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  • I think this is a very bad practice. I was unhappy with WTT when he did it, and I am even more unhappy to see this. I don't think the candidate would be a bad admin, generally speaking, but I am sorely tempted to oppose just based on the fact that they have chosen to ignore longstanding, community-developed processes so that the community doesn't have to waste its time with these re-RFAs of candidates who only need to ask for the bits back at the BN. This should be nipped in the bud. Risker (talk) 03:55, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  • As I see it, anyone starting a "this is demanding of the community's time" discussion is demanding an even larger amount of community time. I am now demanding community time by making this comment. And as I see it, all of these amounts of time are negligible. I've spent far more time responding to Village Pump discussions that never had any chance of going anywhere, among other examples. Given how many admins there are who definitely would not get promoted if their RfA were today, I have trouble getting worked up about the rare admin who wants to confirm that they still meet the community's standards. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 04:15, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    I'm all for admin feedback being a real part of enwiki culture but it's not like RFA is the only way for that to happen and the people you would want to do it are probably also ones less likely to do it. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 04:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    As I've mentioned on Barkeep49's talk page in response to the candidate, I genuinely believe that a person seeking readminship within our current standards at the Bureaucrat Noticeboard would receive very useful feedback, particularly if they disclosed why there may be concerns, as Hog Farm has done in this RFA. Many people who have no concern about Hog Farm getting the bits back now feel obligated to actively support them, and those who don't know much about them have to invest a non-negligible amount of time researching them in order to give a useful opinion. It is possible that going to BN first would result in a 'crat decision to send to re-RFA, but that would only mean a day or two's delay, which is insignificant. Risker (talk) 04:55, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    So we're not allowed to talk about the problem without being a part of it? There has to be some logical fallacy that describes that argument. Those of us talking about it are doing so since we do not want it to become a pattern, which will save the community time in the long run. This RfA is an indication that we didn't talk about it loudly enough last time. Sdkb  06:45, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Abstain. I have deep respect for Hog Farm's work at FAC and have no problem with him becoming an admin again. But I absolutely concur with Barkeep, Risker et. al. that it is deeply disappointing to see another RfA of this form. Copying the rest of my comment from WTT's RfA (with slight adjustments): To the extent that !voting "support" would be an endorsement of the decision to run a reconfirmation RfA, I do not wish to cast such a !vote (nor do I wish to !vote neutral, implying that his qualifications are borderline). As with recalls, a reconfirmation system only works effectively when it's in some way mandatory, not just an opt-in thing for those (like Hog Farm) who can clearly pass. So I don't think this sets any sort of useful precedent, as anyone who might be affected by it (i.e. at risk of not passing) just won't follow it. Voluntary reconfirmations like this use up a lot of community time compared to a post at BN. At best they provide some feedback to the candidate and at worst they're an excuse to seek validation. I don't think either goal justifies the ask of the community. I do not wish to encourage others to behave similarly, so I arrive at the decision to abstain. Sdkb  06:50, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  • When I work in Japan I stop jaywalking and cross the street only when the lights show the walk signal. Funnily enough (</sarcasm>), when context changes, we generally change our behaviour. To me, admins whose actions demonstrate wider accountability and self-reflection are to be celebrated, not pilloried; it's a small way of improving the culture and validating collaboration. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 07:50, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Maybe the compromise general rule should be that redundant RfA's should not be posted to everyone's watchlists by default? --Joy (talk) 11:44, 15 December 2024 (UTC)
    Good idea. Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:20, 15 December 2024 (UTC)


The above adminship discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the talk page of either this nomination or the nominated user). No further edits should be made to this page.