Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Zereshk (talk | contribs) at 14:53, 4 July 2005. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

A Call for the Change of Persian Script

This is based on many of my personal experiences and otherwise with Persians that they hate how they were semi-arabized and how they write in Arabic script. A person I was talking to said that she hated the script and spoke ill of Islam and such. But the hypocrite part is, why do Persian keep on using the script!? Why don't they change it like how Turkey and others changed it? What's the big deal? Get over it!

Imam Khomeini International Airport

Imam Khomeini International Airport is now open, this should be updated. I am pretty sure that it dosen't only serve flights from Dubai.

Tehran or Teheran

I believe it is Tehran, not Teheran, my source being Teach Yourself Persian. But the Persian script doesn't distinguish the two.

The original Persian spelling

The original Persian spelling of Tehran, as I have seen in many sources, was with a Tah (ط), and not a Teh (ت). That can be confirmed by visiting some Persian pages like , , , , , , , , , and , the latest of which is a letter from Mohammad Mosaddegh himself (search for the word طهران on the pages). Although the current Arabic language spelling is the same as the older Persian spelling, anti-Arabic advocates shouldn't be allowed to ignore the history of the word. I will revert the removal of the original spelling by the anonymous user 69.111.53.180, which was clearly labeled "originally", if no valid opposition comes up here (in, lets say, 48 hours). I seriously believe that bias against the Arabic language should not come in the way of undisputed facts. I also volunteer to find older official documents referring to the city as "طهران" if the need arises. "Nobody that I personally know of, spells Tehran that way" is not proof enough that Tehran was never spelled that way: Nobody I personally know of speaks Swahili either. Does that mean Swahili has never been spoken? Roozbeh 22:52, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The following paragraph has been heavily refactored to remove personal attacks. When refactoring, I have chosen to err on the side of leniency, allowing questionable-but-not-blatant portions to remain. The “content” of the message has not been changed, merely the inflammatory nature of the wording. SWAdair | Talk 03:59, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I want to mention in the article that Tehran was officially called "طهران" for some time, without trying to guess the reason (which is disputed). Is there anyway to do that in a way acceptable to you? BTW, Persian speakers in Afghanistan still spell and pronounce "consul" with a Ghaf (ق) officially. Letters, languages, spellings, and preferences shouldn't be called stupid, IMO. Misplaced Pages is here to document, not to prefer a certain reform in language or spelling. Roozbeh 13:57, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Mr. Roozbeh, first of all you are wrong, that mispelling of Tehran in Persian has never been "official" as you seem to indicate. However, it is quite official now that that old spelling was wrong and the official spelling is the correct spelling; and this has been established for a myriad of other misspellings of names and words in Persian. Secondly, what are you trying to achieve by including an outdated misspelling of the name of Tehran in an article in English about Tehran? What benefit can this possibly have for anyone to show in the ENGLISH article that for sometime, some people, in PERSIAN, used to misspell Tehran? I just like to understand your logic here, sir. Lastly, as I was reading some of your writings in Persian Misplaced Pages, and as another poster over there had noted and protested to you, your so-called "Persian" is, forgive me for using this word here, nauseating. It is essentially a string of arabic words connected together with thin persian grammar. This is exactly what others over there have complained about your Persian. I wonder if your real name is Roozbeh, as Roozbeh is a Persian name and Mullahs would only give Arabic names to their children. Other than your name everything else about you is indicative of a mullah (or son of a mullah) with Internet access.

The following comment has been refactored to remove personal attacks. SWAdair | Talk 04:01, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Actually, we have a page here called Remova personal attacks which advocates that people should do this. Morwen 21:17, Apr 16, 2004 (UTC)

Note to 69.111.53.180 – Your positive contributions are welcome. YOU are welcome here. Inflammatory, personal attacks are not welcome and are against Misplaced Pages policy. Repeated behavior of this nature can lead to action being taken by the community, possibly resulting in a temporary or even permanent ban. If you continue to make personal attacks, it is likely that you will be banned, leaving only those who disagree with you to write the article. Again, you are welcome here, as are your positive contributions. Even disagreement is welcome, as that means you believe you can improve the Misplaced Pages. Please ensure that your conduct is professional, however. You will convince people by the force of your argument, not by the force of insults. SWAdair | Talk 04:03, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

OK SWAdair, thanks. I agree with you. My using harsh langauge will actually work to his benefit and to my own disadvantage. I will respond to him above and yet again, try to reason with him. But trsut me, this person appears to be very unreasonable and stubborn.

Teheran?

Teheran?

What kind of moron says "Teheran"? I speak Persian, I've lived in Iran, Tehran and I've yet to see anyone pronounce Teh-ran as Teh-e-ran...

- Agreed. I've taken out the bit that says Teheran is more accurate, because it's not what I've heard and I haven't seen any evidence. If someone wants to add that claim back, please provide evidence. - anon, 5 June 2005

There is plenty of evidence in numerous books and sources where "teheran" is used. I think it has to do with the fact that the letter H in Teheran is correctly accentuated to reflect the Persian pronunciation, whereas in Tehran, the H is subdued, making the word sound like "Tay-ron". Anyhow, here is an example of Teheran being used in some older texts: --Zereshk 00:31, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

That is not evidence at all. It merely shows that the spelling Teheran is widely used in English, which we already know. The question is, what is the Persian name for the city? If it's Tehran the letter h is clearly and distinctly an . This is common in Persian: shâh 'king', shahr 'city', have the pronounced.

Nevertheless, I agree that it should be TEHRAN. But I also think we should mention: "also spelled Teheran in some texts". Otherwise, many people will start thinking Teheran is another city in Iran.--Zereshk 09:09, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This is not dissimilar to the difference between Isfahan (most common form used in English) and Esfahan (which more accurately reflects the Persian pronuniciation). As Zereshk has noted, when speaking Persian, Teheran more accurately reflects the Persian pronunciation, i.e. Tehe-ran (not Teh-e-ran) - in this form, the 'H' is accentuated, as there is a slight 'heh' in the pronunciation. Just thought I would point that out.

IMHO, the intro should be simplified for now as "Tehran or Teheran" as has been done in the article on Isfahan (city). But also, I am of the opinion that clarifying the proper Persian pronunciation (i.e. stating that Teheran and Esfahan more accurately represent Persian pronunciation, for example) for the reader is important. SouthernComfort 12:08, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup

This page is currently mostly a list of attractions. I serisously believe that the attractions should be discussed in one or two paragraphs and the reader referred to a longer page to know more about attractions of Tehran. It seems that an anoymous user keeps pasting these back in. Please consider reverting the article back to the shorter version. roozbeh July 2, 2005 02:54 (UTC)

Tourist information

Wow! This page was full of tourist information instead of information about the city itself. Please consider adding tourist information to Wikitravel for Tehran instead. roozbeh July 2, 2005 03:56 (UTC)

Roozbeh's unilateral rewrite

Every great cultural city in the world must set aside space to introduce its culture. Look at Saint Petersburg. 75% of their page is about their attractions. Berlin even has a special section for tourists, aside from its attractions. look at Hamburg, Vienna, Milan, Rome. At least half of their pages are about their cultural attractions.

I seriously think Roozbeh has no right to come around here once in a blue moon and gand bezaneh be safheh o bereh. YANEE CHEE????

If you think the page is too touristy, then why the hell did you rewrite the whole goddamn page? (and then put a cleanup tag after your own incredibly poor edits??!)

Mardom zahmat kesheedan eenjaa!!! And all you do is erase stuff you dont like.

hey zertee meeyaad gand mizaneh be hameh chee.

Im reverting back and making adjustments to make the page look less "touristy".

You are free to help with that. But I cant let you rewrite the entire page without the consent of the other editors.--Zereshk 2 July 2005 09:28 (UTC)

1. If you think there is consensus about the way you think the page should be, show me consensus. It is only you who is talking about it.
2. Please translate all you Persian sentences to English.
3. As for your allegations in English, I didn't erase anything worthy. I have only moved them to other more appropriate pages and provided links to them. On the contrart, you have removed a lot of my material, including a part on the city governance. roozbeh July 3, 2005 14:22 (UTC)

1. No pertinent information gets erased from this page and transferred elsewhere. If you think the page is "touristy", then that's your problem. Just look at the cities I mentioned above and compare.
2. You are free to add material. But not to delete anything unilaterally. I had to revert your edits, because you had totally annihilated the page without keeping any of the former stuff, which belongs here on this page.
3. I dont think messing up pages and slapping cleanup tags on them aftwerwards is a very effective way of doing things on Misplaced Pages. As a administrator, you hardly contribute positively to any Iranian articles. Instead of expanding pages, you amputate what others have written and chip away at them, or slap on various unwarranted tags merely to be problematic. Your style is highly confrontational, and I dont appreciate that at all.--Zereshk 3 July 2005 22:52 (UTC)

You are very wrong in many details, including following Misplaced Pages policies, but I'm not answering them in detail until you translate your Persian phrases to English. This is not a proper dialog, but simply accusations from your part. roozbeh July 3, 2005 22:57 (UTC)

As an Iranian from Tehran, I find this article embarrasingly "travel agency" like and cheap. Most of the pictures are artificial or touched up, there is not a balanced presentation of the city sites and culture and overall, it seems that someone has gone out of his way to present Tehran in a travel agent style "palatable" way for the Western audience. For example, do more people go skiing in Tehran or go to Imam Khomeini's shrine? This, in my humble opinion, is indicative of some sort of inferiority complex and also a pitiable attempt to be "accepted" by Westerners by some Iranians who live in their own little world and who don't have a genuine Iranian identity. I sincerely wish that this article is balanced out. Also, chances are, the same person or people who came up with this gaudiness, have done the same thing on other articles about Iran, too. It seems that Zereshk is suffering from the fact that Tehran is not Berlin, Hamburg, Vienna, Milan, Rome .... well, get over it dude, it isn't and it doesn't have to be. And if you go out of your way to present it that way, most people will laugh at you and tell you ..... ZERESHK!! Mansour 4 July 2005 06:29 (UTC)

Mansour, if you're implying that most Tehranis would prefer to visit Khomeini's shrine rather than go skiing (or doing anything else for matter), then that speaks volumes. I certainly hope this is not what you are implying - in all my life, all the times I have been to Iran, I have never met a single person who actually visited that godforsaken place (yes, I have a POV, but this is the talk, not the article). Fact of the matter is, Tehran is a pretty decadent, lively, and cultured city. We should present Tehran as it really is, and quite frankly, judging by current fashions, trends, music, fast food chains, etc. prevalent in Tehran, "Western" is very much in vogue there (as it is in most other major cities). I don't see that as a bad thing. You may not like it, but neither does the regime. SouthernComfort 4 July 2005 10:13 (UTC)

Plus, looking over the current version, most of the so-called, allegedly "touristy" (I disagree, but that's me) information was removed. What's the problem? SouthernComfort 4 July 2005 10:18 (UTC)

Mansour,

Almost none of the pics are touched up, and none are artificial. I took them myself, and I can say where and when. If you like, I can take you to the excat spot, because Im here in Tehran. And I think your idea of posting ghetto pics and men with reesh and chadori women from Nazi-abad and Seh-raah Azari to reflect your idea of the real Tehran is pretty stupid. This is not a political page, and Touchal is just as real as Darvazeh Ghaar.--Zereshk 4 July 2005 14:53 (UTC)

Roozbeh,

1. Mardom Zahmat mekeshand eenjaa means that "people put a lot of effort into writing these pages" that you so disrespectfully erase, edit, and then put up a clean-up tag so that I will have to come and clean up your poor edits, only to have them erased by you again in 2 months with another cleanup tag. Haleet shod? ("get it?")
2. Misplaced Pages admins that get involved in a debate or conflict on a page dont have the right to lock the page. They have to ask another Admin to do so. I must ask you to stop abusing your administrative responsibilities in pushing for your personal edits here.
3. You are in no position to pop out of nowhere after dozens of people have written this page with care and passion, and decide what is "worthy" to erase and what is not. To fekr kardee kee hasty mageh? ("who do u think u are?")
4. gand bezaneh be safheh o bereh and hey zertee meeyaad gand mizaneh be hameh chee means that "Roozbeh every once in a while appears out of nowhere and reduces the page to a big pile of crap with his demolishing edits." WHICH YOU DO. You slapped a cleanup tag on the Iran page, even though it was un-necessary accoring to Misplaced Pages rules. You accused my edits on List of Iranian scientists as copyright vioed, and yet I had to stop you and show you the exact NLM page that permits the info to be used. And I still remember your first words to me:

"please consider not editing Misplaced Pages at all". (Jan 10th, 2005), instead of accepting the fact that Iran is not a signatory to the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works (see list here), and OFFICIALLY does not adhere to International Copyright laws itself, hence no validity to your copyright violation claims.

You have been and continue to be a very problematic editor that shows no respect for anyone else in anything. There's a reason people send you a lot of "fohsh", as you claim yourself on your own page.--Zereshk 4 July 2005 14:53 (UTC)