Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Sharavanabhava (talk | contribs) at 22:45, 23 January 2008 (→Personal attack?: RfC/U). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Please don't leave messages here, as I will not see them. See the edit history for previous discussions.

Homeopathy

Hey, I just finished a rewrite draft of the Homeopathy article. The article has major problems and I'm trying to turn it into a featured article and I noticed you were a major contributor to it so I thought you might want to help. The draft is a rough approximation of what it should be like. It obviously has some flaws in it's format and wording right now but they will be kinked out within the next couple of days. Right now what I want is for you, if you're interested in helping to improve the article, to come to the articles talk page. I'm trying to get all of the articles major contributors to discuss the rough draft and hack out a consensus so that we can replace it with the current article. There we will all discuss the article and how it could be improved before we replace the current homeopathy article with it. In order for this to work we need to follow a few rules. The first rule, the most important rule, is that no one but me can edit the rough draft. Do not edit the rough draft. This precaution is used to prevent edit warring and loss or addition of information that might not be up to consensus. Don't worry, It's just a draft and you'll have all the time you want to make changes after we've replaced it with the current article. The second rule is that all proposed changes in the rough draft must be made on the talk page of the rough draft and must be clear and concise. At that point anyone involved will discuss the proposed changes and if agreed by consensus they will be implemented. We will do that until there is no disputes or disagreements. After all disputes are hammered out, we will replace the homeopathy article with the rough draft. At that point there shouldn't be anyone needing to make huge edits, and if you do see an edit that you want to make, be sure to add a note on the talk page PRIOR to making the edit so that consensus can be reached and then you should make the edit. If you have any questions you can leave me a message on my talk page. Here is the link to the rough draft Link to rough draft. Thanks.

Ivies

Pardon my interest, but what is it that brings you back, after 6 months of inactivity, to comment on Adam's RfC? Antelan 07:43, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I've been watching the article and topic. When I started, the coverage was very very weak. THe main article, I thought, was a mess. It wasn't well organized into sections that made sense as parts of a coherent whole, it didn't flow, things were repeated all over the place, etc. It was overlong and many articles that should have been subarticles had been deleted and merged into the main article rather than improved.

I thought I could help to improve things. Given my background as a traditionally trained and practicing MD with an editorial background and some knowledge and interest in homeopathy, I thought I could make a contribution to the overall subject area and have some fun with Misplaced Pages at the same time.

I did (I think strong) work intially when some biographies of some internationally known homeopaths which were being afded by adam (and a few others)---you can look at the stuff on my user page to see some of the comments I made and edits I did. I found this kind of ironic in an encyclopedia which has extensive pages for individual soccer matches and cartoon show episodes :=), but whatever. I looked up the criteria for notability, improved the articles, and pointed out the criteria on the AFD talk pages.

It seemed bizarre that most of the editors participating in the homeopathy pages really didn't know much about the actual topic and seemed less interested in learning more about it than in protecting the encyclopedia from it. There was a lot of labeling and warning going on and not much explication and description.

I stayed away from the main page initially as it was such a minefield, but when I started to make edits on that page I was bashed pretty much immediately. Misplaced Pages doesn't earn my salary, take care of my patients, get me any publications; it is entirely a volunteer pursuit. When this happened, I turned my energies elsewhere. I have a lot to do.

ONe of the things which I found particularly troubling was the degree to which AC was using admin tools and editing simultaneously. He was never uncivil, but he seemed to be ignoring accepted standards for administrative behavior. It is problematic in a community project like this when selected individuals feel morally justified in not following the rules set forward for participants on various levels. I have a lot of sympthy for Adam. He is without doubt a very well-intentioned young man with hopefully a promising future in the real world. He has made some great contributions to the encyclopeida. However, it is wrong for him to be so personally involved as an editor in a subject matter while also being one of the most involved admins in the subject matter.

When I noticed that the larger community had noticed this problem, I decided to add my voice to the discussion.

I hope this satisfies your curiousity. Feel free to contact me with any further quesitons. Abridged 14:07, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Note

Actually, I was looking at the Homeopathic remedies category after it was mentioned on Talk:Potassium dichromate. I could see adding a link to the Arnica montana going to a page on the homeopathic remedy, but I don't think that a long list of things it's used to treat is appropriate; it could even verge on inappropriate within the scope of homeopathy, since homeopathy is supposed to be individualised. Adam Cuerden 18:49, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

That doesn't support the removal of sourced relevant content. Abridged 18:52, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Connection?

I don't mean to be rude or anything, but if you're not related to the homeopathy industry, either as a user or producer, in some way, why are all of your edits - or at least the ones I scanned through - about homeopathy? Just a casual interest? PouponOnToast (talk) 21:43, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

back when I signed up for Misplaced Pages, I was looking for a field to edit in. I was exploring an interest in homeopathy and thought that adding content to wikipedia from sources might be a good way to expand my knowledge and also help improve wikipedia at the same time.

I am a traditionally trained and practicing MD, and have research training and editorial background. I make my living practicing conventional medicine and believe in what I do. I do not have a homeopathic practice, but I have sent a few patients who weren't being helped with the conventional approaches and asked me about alternative approaches to a local homeopath on a consultation basis, as I've referred to other alternative providers when it seemed appropriate and the patient asked me to. Most, quite honestly, were not helped but one or two were helped quite a bit.

All in all, I maintain an interest in homeopathy and a skepticism about the field at the same time.

If you don't believe that I do not have some kind of a commerical conflict of interest, I am happy to share my identity with a bureaucrat off line. Abridged 22:18, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

No, I assume good faith. However, if you are truly interested in improving knowledge as opposed to improving the optics of homeopathy on the encyclopedia, perhaps you could branch your editing out to areas of less dispute in addition to your work in defending homeopathy from skeptics. In fact, I'll make a deal with you - for every article you substantially improve that has nothing to do with homeopathy or any other alternative medicine/pseudoscience (by my definition, not yours), I will make equally substantial improvements in an article that has nothing to do with any of my areas of interest. Deal? PouponOnToast (talk) 22:23, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm actually really busy (I probably work 60-70 hours a week) and don't have much time to do random stuff so I can't promise that I will edit much. I was reading about homeopathy at the time I was editing, so thought I'd kill two birds with one stone by improving wiki in that area. I am not really interested in proving anything to you, or having you prove any thing to me, but as I said if you are concerned about conflict of interest I'm happy to prove that I don't have one :=) Abridged 22:31, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Personal attack?

While I apologise for any offense caused, your behaviour in every debate about homeopathy - to the point of objecting to an AfD not because of any good reason, but because you disliked me challenging anything remotely having to do with homeopathy, seems to justify the description. Adam Cuerden 21:54, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

That is inaccurate!!! You know as well as I do that I participated in many afds by citing notablility criteria to show articles met them. You know I improved many articles to meet criteria. I'll add links in a moment. Your last AFD request on a bio of a homeopath was a bit ill timed as you are the subect of an rfc, and I don't think there was anything wrong with saying that. The AFD in question was successful, but I think that I also said that I thought the subject was notable and the article should be improved rather than deleted. I also don't think there was anything wrong with that. Abridged 22:24, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

I note you mentioned that this behavior might be appropriate for an RfC/U. I'd be inclined to agree if that is appropriate in light of the ongoing ArbCom matter. —Whig (talk) 22:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)