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Nickhh (talk · contribs)

Related case: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles.

• Note: Nickhh included here - Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#Statement_by_Jaakobou. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaakobou (talk • contribs) 08:36, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Between January 29 and February 11 (two weeks) Nickhh (talk · contribs) has made edits to a total of 7 different articles, on 5 of them he made reverts on my work, and 4 of those 5 were articles the editor has never touched before.

Following established editors to articles you've never worked on and reverting them is a violation of the Decorum principals, specifically, WP:STALK and WP:POINT (Saeb Erekat).

With respect, Jaakobou 08:27, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Is this a test to see if I "stalk" you here too? Anyway I suppose I have, by your terminology. You seem to be missing a few crucial points though -

1) I was never a party in the arbitration, nor was I even notified it was taking place. Arguably I should have been, but that's a different point. The fact that you mentioned my name in one of your posts during the arbitration means nothing;

2) On top of that, you have failed to notify me that you have posted this complaint about me, which seems a bit underhand;

3) Only one of the above diffs is a complete revert of a recent edit of yours . You had made that edit unilaterally, without discussing it, when there was a major talk page debate underway about the paragraph in question.

4) The other changes were of information that was manifestly incorrect, eg that Napoleon invaded "Israel", or that Mar Saba was "in Israel". You have since acknowledged those errors, so it seems a little rich to now Wikilawyer against me as if I'm the one who did something wrong here.

5) Per the above, considering that you seemed to be ranging around various articles trying to change standard terminology relating to Israel & Palestine, I was perfectly entitled to have a look at what articles you were trying to do that in. And then remove any related errors when I found them. As it happens, I had in fact edited on or at least been aware of most of the articles already.

You've provided no evidence a) that I have deliberately stalked you or followed you to a large number of articles, b) that I have reverted any of your edits for the sake of it or c) that any of the edits I have made were incorrect. So what is the point here? The fact that you've posted this complaint says way more about you than it does about me. --Nickhh (talk) 14:32, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Interestingly, I've also just noticed that you've posted an edited version of my contributions history here, removing every entry showing I discussed several of the issues on talk pages, and actually refrained from making some edits. You have not made clear that this is what you have done. --Nickhh (talk) 14:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

His edits look fine to me. He is only correcting POV edits (i.e. those claiming that East Jerusalem is in Israel or that the West Bank is part of Israel ), being more factually corrent (e.g. that the area was referred to as Palestine at the time ) and removing OR commentary . What is more worrying is how the facts that he has corrected got in in the first place. пﮟოьεԻ 57 15:03, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't see how correcting an error on one of the 5 articles and a note that Nickhh is "not registered on the arbcom" (his name is on it) eliminates my complaint about stalking me to 4 new articles and making points on Saeb Erekat.

p.s. Number 57, your name is registered in the case also and I have no idea on why you'd link to Tomb of Samuel which is not one of the 4 mentioned articles. Jaakobou 15:30, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, and we know that my name was only mentioned in the case because you felt moved to attempt to discredit my evidence regarding your long-term POV pushing. If someone finds a POV pusher, they are fully entitled to go and correct them wherever they have edited. With regards to the Tomb of Samuel, why did you bother including it in the evidence above if you don't want to mention it? пﮟოьεԻ 57 15:33, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

JustaHulk (talk · contribs)

• Note: -- Relevant Arbitration case = Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/COFS, due to Arbitration ruling of article probation on topic, Scientology.

1. Warning given to JustaHulk (talk · contribs) on WP:ANI by Jehochman (talk · contribs).
2. Harassment on Wikinews
3. AFTER the warning notice by Jehochman, JustaHulk posts again - to talk page of Jimbo Wales (talk · contribs). JustaHulk calls the subject heading: "Wikinews is a crack whore".
4. Twice calls me a "propagandist"
5. JustaHulk claims to Jehochman that he is done with his inflammatory actions, admits he reneged on Jehochman's warning
6. Justanother notes that his own comment to Thatcher was trolling
7. That then gets reverted by Thatcher
8. JustaHulk creates an attack page (That page was deleted by Jehochman (talk · contribs) with the comment: "Appears to be an attack page with no encyclopedic purpose." )
9. Again making disruptive comments at talk page of Jimbo Wales

Durova (talk · contribs) comments at talk page of Jimbo Wales: JustaHulk, twice now you've proposed that Cirt is a "paid propagandist". Do you have anything more than an edit count to support that very serious accusation?

More recently, JustaHulk (talk · contribs) has posted an "announcement" at both the userpage for User:JustaHulk, and the userpage for User:Justanother, where he says: I found myself objecting strongly to a prolific propagandist successfully embedding him/herself in this project and at WikiNews where s/he found some willing cohorts and little moderating influence. -- Again, though not directly mentioning a particular user, this use of this language "prolific propagandist", again, is a blatant violation of WP:NPA.

1. "prolifict propagandist" inflammatory wording at userpage for Justanother
2. "prolifict propagandist" inflammatory wording at userpage for JustaHulk
3. He calls attention to his "announcement" at the talk page for Jimbo Wales

This user does not seem to be able to stop, even after comments from Administrators of both Misplaced Pages and Wikinews, and a recent warning from Jehochman (talk · contribs). Cirt (talk) 20:13, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

• I note the following:
  1. Behavior at Wikinews is outside the scope of Misplaced Pages enforcement. Some users who are successful elsewhere have become unwelcome here, and some users unwelcome elsewhere are successful here.
  2. None of the diffs are to articles, or even to article talk pages.
  3. Justahulk/Justanother is urged to avoid Shutterbug/COFS in the arbitration and warning.
  4. So far as I can tell, Cirt does not discluse that he is the same editor as COFS/Shutterbug. Nor does he disclose that he is Makoshack and Misou, who are to be treated as if they were COFS.
• Based on this, I think there is no case for arbitration enforcement alleged here, and no arbitration enforcement should occur. Both editors should probably be advised to behave civilly toward one another, but not as arbitration enforcement. GRBerry 20:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Response

I noted the following here, because the actions of JustaHulk (talk · contribs), as Justanother (talk · contribs), have been heavily discussed in the above arbitration case. If this is not the proper location, I will repose this to WP:ANI. Cirt (talk) 21:27, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

With regard to the comment by GRBerry (talk · contribs) re: behavior at Wikinews - yes, I agree that behavior on a different sister project may not be part of the scope of Misplaced Pages enforcement. But disruption by JustaHulk (talk · contribs), constantly posting inflammatory disruptive remarks about behavior on a different project - is within the scope of Misplaced Pages enforcement. For example, this, and more recently, this.Cirt (talk) 21:32, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I note that although the arbitration remedy doesn't specifically restrict Justanother/Justahulk, it does have a provision concerning "Harassment of User:Justanother by User:Anynobody" which states: "Anynobody has since at least March 2007 complained to and of Justanother with great frequency and persistence, and sometimes without relevance to mainspace editing, on WP:ANI, a variety of user talkpages, WP:RFA, and other fora, some of them clearly not intended for such use." This strikes me as quite relevant to the situation that Cirt describes. I would suggest that this remedy be widened to prohibit the harassment of any editor involved in this subject area by any other editor involved in the same subject area. -- ChrisO (talk) 21:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Note: Due to the comment by GRBerry (talk · contribs), above, I have posted this notice to WP:ANI. Cirt (talk) 21:41, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

• JustaHulk appears to have given up editing on Wikinews after it became painfully apparent he has a conflict of interest on Scientology. He has not shown sufficient maturity to be asked to give a pro-Scientology point of view and avoid whitewashing articles or interviews where he could otherwise inject a degree of balance. Instead he resorts to denigrating the project here on Misplaced Pages by trolling Jimmy Wales' talk page and generally "being a dick". I would welcome some pro-scientology questions for our upcoming interviews with CoS critics, but if they're all as crazy as JustaHulk it is a waste of time. I'm better off trying to formulate pro-CoS questions myself, and I don't think highly of the organisation. He tried to tell us that we were producing inappropriate coverage of the takedown of the CoS website, but as it turns out we were first to cover something that turned into real-world protests with 8-10K people globally protesting the church on Lisa McPherson's birthday. Wikinews doesn't have any enemies (apart from WoW) but if we maintained a shit list JustaHulk would be on it for attacking contributors and questioning their integrity. --Brian McNeil / 23:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

ScienceApologist (talk · contribs)

SA is currently under a one-year editing restriction and faces immediate block for incivility or assumption of bad faith as per this ArbCom ruling.

This message left on my talk page constitutes incivility and an assumption of bad faith in regards to this comment, which he reverted with an equally uncivil edit summary.

I ask that the terms of the ArbCom ruling be enforced. Ronnotel (talk) 18:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Ronnotel is being a disruptive editor by trying to get me censured for pointing out his inappropriate actions at a mediation page. This is fairly tendentious. As the guideline clearly states, POV-pushing should be discussed at user talkpages. ScienceApologist (talk) 19:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

My actions were neither disruptive nor inappropriate. I removed a description that is not supported by the cited source and removed references to sources that SA himself labeled as fringe. My edit summary clearly describes my action and my reason. While I had not commented in the thread out of a desire to maintain some distance, I had been following it closely and contributed as I felt appropriate. However, none of this excuses SA's actions nor his obligation under the ArbCom ruling. SA's description of me as POV Pushing is unsupported by the evidence and a blatant violation of WP:AGF. In the same policy cited by SA above is the statement calling someone a "POV-pusher" is always uncivil and hence a violation of his editing restriction. Ronnotel (talk) 19:33, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I never called you a POV-pusher. I think you should consider carefully what you are saying here. Your shrillness in attacking me defies understanding. ScienceApologist (talk) 20:04, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

• This is occurring on the talk page of a request for mediation. Does the mediator consider the conduct to be disrupting the mediation? I'm going to ask for their input. GRBerry 20:14, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

• With respect, the assumption of bad faith and incivility occurred on my talk page, not just the mediation page. And in any case, the ArbCom ruling pertains to incivility and failing to assume good faith without regard to where it may have occurred. I have no objection to conferring with the mediator, but I ask that the merits of this complaint be judged against the standard set by the ArbCom ruling, which is what was used to prepare it. Ronnotel (talk) 20:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

SA's comment was well within the usual limit of discourse on Misplaced Pages. Trying to get a valuable editor banned on what is at best a technicality is unproductive and petty. I assume that you are not a Princess to suffer severely from this pea. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:38, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree. I don't accuse others of POV Pushing and I resent being so labeled. Countless other editors have suffered under this type of behavior from SA and ArbCom, finally, took action to prevent him from being a disruptive force. That he chose to yet again violate this restriction (he has already been blocked twice under it) demonstrates his regard for maintaining a civil and productive environment. Either ArbCom rulings mean something or they don't. Ronnotel (talk) 20:49, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

As mediator, I will agree with Ronnotel's points. There was much discussion above that went on for several weeks, where I allowed every editor that was involved with Cold Fusion to state their points and comment upon my recommendations or notes. As it stands now, the time for extensive comments is over and we have moved onto the editing stages -- taking apart, section by section, Cold Fusion in an attempt to create a neutral and balanced article. Right now, we are working on the lead.

It was fairly smooth sailing, and I made a note that anyone involved can edit the text to their liking, in respect to the comments that I had left above (with respect to outside considerations), but now it seems that it has devolved into another edit war -- which mediation was supposed to solve.

I am asking that both "ScienceApologist" and "Pcarbonn" please recuse themselves from editing any further on the lead until I can make a more valid inspection, and see if any points stand. As is, edit warring is entirely useless and counterproductive, and leads us back to where we were at start. I will note that the edit summaries used by "ScienceApologist" in the mediation and elsewhere shows that he is either not assuming good faith or hasn't grasped how to use correct edit summaries -- and by the looks of it, I will take the former over the latter. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 21:04, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

• You are asking whether the conduct of Ronnotel has been disruptive. It certainly wasn't: it was his only edit in weeks, he clearly explained his reason in the edit summary, and these reasons were already given in details by others in the corresponding discussion on the talk page. POV-pushing is defined as "the aggressive promotion of a particular point of view": this certainly does not apply to Ronnotel's edit. Pcarbonn (talk) 20:52, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

We have a guideline for disruptive editing. Engaging in discussion through edit summaries is fairly confrontational. In the context of this contentious matter, I consider it disruptive. ScienceApologist (talk) 22:09, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Placing a comment in an edit summary instead of in-line with the discussion is hardly disruptive and nowhere in the guideline you cite does it remotely say such a thing. Ronnotel (talk) 22:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I would like to voice strong support for Ronnotel's complaint. SA has treated his civility restriction with impunity, spoken out frequently on his disdain for Misplaced Pages's civility policies, and has repeatedly attacked me and others in the general form of "I'm sorry you are ignorant of (insert subject here)", and various other uncivil remarks. My situation was similar, a source SA cited did not support his edits, and when this was pointed out and demonstrated SA responded by attacking, having the effect of drawing attention to the editor and away from the edits. Leave a message or drop me an email if any diffs are needed. WNDL42 (talk) 02:02, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

TTN (talk · contribs)

The following discussion is an archived report. Please do not modify it. Subsequent reports should be made in a new section.

No action taken. Ioeth _{(talk contribs friendly)} 19:53, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

TTN is continuing to remove article content despite the arbitration injunction on the matter that was passed at 02:00 on 3 February 2008 with the 4th vote. A few examples:

• Pikmin (series)
• List of Death Note characters
• Aladdin (TV series)

Therefore I request arbitration enforcement. -- Cat 19:01, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Removing unneeded plot summaries, condensing and rearranging information, and removing red links is part of the cleanup process. The point of the injunction is to stop pages from being redirected or brought back. If they didn't want any of the parties to do any editing relating to fiction, they would have stated that. TTN (talk) 19:04, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

It does not appear that TTN's edits to those pages are in violation of the temporary injunction. Ioeth _{(talk contribs friendly)} 19:53, 11 February 2008 (UTC)