Misplaced Pages talk:Stalking

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by User2004 (talk | contribs) at 23:29, 16 August 2005 (→Guideline proposal discussion: added to Village pump). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 23:29, 16 August 2005 by User2004 (talk | contribs) (→Guideline proposal discussion: added to Village pump)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

Ok, it's highly discouraged to follow someone, according to editing here?

Um, you know, user contributions is a page there for a reason, are folks making this page advocating it should be removed? In that case, shouldn't this be a request on our bug tracking software, and not a wikipedia page?

In any case, I don't understand, and this page doesn't really establish reasons why or why not. Please clarify! Kim Bruning 07:45, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

When I created this page I meant for it to refer to hostile stalking as in the type that users complain about on RFC's and RFA's but it needs to be clarified, I've been trying to figure out how to do this but so far have come up blank. Jtkiefer ----- 08:42, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

Well, my attempt at a "Bad Stalking" section is a start to that goal, if nothing else. Thanks,
Luc "Somethingorother" French 09:08, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Ah, I think you're going to have a hard time, because imvho wikistalking simply isn't ^^;; Maybe as you try to build this page you'll find out that this is the case as well. Let's hope so! :-) Kim Bruning 13:29, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

essay

I'm moving this essay here from the main page. This is one editor's view. -Willmcw 19:23, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

While I don't disagree with that, please note that the entire page is one editor's view (or a few editor's views, at any rate) and that there is no policy or guideline (or even an official definition) regarding Wikistalking. R adiant _>|< 23:53, August 13, 2005 (UTC)

- Greetings - The paragraph in question here was authored by me for my user page. Another user informed me of this article's existence and his desire to use the material, which I am supportive of if he and others agree. In the interest of full disclosure however, it should be noted that User:Willmcw, the editor who removed this paragraph, is currently involved in a contentious dispute with myself (presently in the mediation stage) over the subject of this article. He has engaged in extensive wikistalking of both the "good" and "bad" types here. As such, I believe his edits should be considered a conflict of interest and would accordingly ask that a more collaborative approach be taken in deciding the placement or use of this material than the objections of a single user whose motivation for removing it is directly tied to his own partaking in the same behavior described there. Rangerdude 07:02, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
  - Oh dear. Maybe you should get a Third Opinion (tm). By the way if you two are serious about a Wikipage on stalking, I'd recommend listing it on Requests for comment to get community feedback. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean nobody else will :) Radiant_>|< 08:12, August 14, 2005 (UTC)
    - I don't think Will read it, he just saw my chat to Rangerdude on his talk page. If will had read it then he would have seen that it does not mention him -- that's I think what he was worried about. ChoobWriter 14:30, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Definition - Wiki-stalking occurs when an editor abusively trails another editor around wikipedia by way of his or her user contributions page. It entails an evidenced distinctive editing pattern in which one user intentionally follows another editor around wikipedia for purposes that are not constructive to the encyclopedia's content or conducive to its collaborative environment. It occurs when one editor continuously and repeatedly follows another editor between multiple unrelated articles over an extended period of time and a wide variety of unrelated subjects for the purpose of making excessive "followup" changes to the original editor's work - often for the purpose of harassment, disruption, or deconstructing the stalked editor's work for reasons that are not in compliance with Misplaced Pages policies or guidelines.

Why it's a problem - Wiki-stalking is an abuse of the user contributions function on wikipedia. This is a tool that otherwise serves valuable purposes in combatting vandalism and problematic users, but like any tool it can be abused when used in excess or with malicious intent. Stalking is problematic because it exhibits incivility, subjects individual editors to unwarranted harassment, and violates the request that all wikipedians should Misplaced Pages:Assume good faith about other editors. Often times a stalker conducts himself with the intent of driving another editor away from Misplaced Pages through a series of harassing and hostile behavior. The most notorious case of wiki-stalking to date involved a user who consciously trailed another well established wikipedian's edits with daily "followup" work conducted to the same articles, most of it minor and unnecessary. Even though the stalker edits were minor, the behavior was deemed to be harassing because it was done intentionally to harass the victimized editor. The case was settled by direct intervention from Misplaced Pages founder Jimbo Wales, who permanently blocked the stalker for "making a pest of himself" and disrupting the encyclopedia.

How you can help

Stalking problems

If you are being stalked in a harassing manner by another user, the first thing you should do is politely approach him/her about it. Inform that editor of your concern and objections and ask him/her politely to stop.
If step 1 doesn't work, inform the stalker of the anti-stalking precedent cited above.
If the stalking continues make a log of it! Document the cases of stalking on your user page with sourced diffs to show its extent and problems.

Description of edits

I reformatted and added to the article to improve its organization. Since the recent Arbcom definition of wiki-stalking is probably the most substantive definition of this term, so I moved it to the top under a "Definition" header. I also reorganized the subsequent descriptions of stalking both from this page and the material that's from my user page into a general header on Wikipedian viewpoints about stalking to differentiate them from the official Arbcom ruling. I also copyedited the article in general to give it a better flow and add clarifications. Rangerdude 18:39, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

guideline tag

The guideline tag probably isn't appropriate for use yet since this has not been generally noticed nor has it been accepted by the community as a guideline. (when people quote it on RFA, RFC, and RFAr then you know the community has noticed it, for the moment it's probably best just to keep the tag off. Jtkiefer ----- 07:54, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

I generally agree that this article is something with potential to become a guideline in light of the fact that two strong precedents have effectively defined wiki-stalking's abusive forms and classified it as an offense with very stiff penalties. In accordance with the developments of the two noted precedent cases it is probably wise to update Misplaced Pages's guidelines to reflect them, and this can be done over time as awareness grows regarding the outcome of those cases. I concur that it is probably a little premature to add the formal guideline tag right now, though we are quickly approaching that stage and in the meantime an informal tag of some sort indicating that nature is appropriate. As an aside, it is also inappropriate that editors who have engaged in Wiki-stalking themselves (and thus have a conflict of interest in which they stand to lose as the Misplaced Pages community's awareness of this article grows) should be involved in "policing" the edits to this article as it develops. As noted above, this includes User:Willmcw who currently has wikistalking complaints pending against him and whose edits here thus far have been conducted for the purposes of removing content and/or diverting community attention away from this article as it develops. At minimum, any maintanence activities of the sort this and other conflicted editors have thus far been engaged in should be conducted by a more neutral party. Rangerdude 20:52, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Does the charge of potential conflict of interest also extend to you, as the person who is pursuing the "wikistalking" charge against User:Willmcw? · Katefan0 21:02, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Katefan - I have not engaged in the practice of wikistalking and therefore do not stand to gain by obstructing the development of this article as he does. As the article's provisions do not apply to an activity I have engaged in no comparable conflict of interest exists. Rangerdude 21:07, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Aha. That's interesting logic. Don't you think that anybody involved in a current case of "wikistalking" who is tinkering with a proposed policy on the phenomenon could reasonably be seen to have a conflict of interest? I don't see how being the perceived aggrieved party in this case makes it less of a conflict of interest for you. Some might suggest that a person in your situation might have a keen interest in seeing this policy developed in such a way as to help their case. I am not suggesting any nefarious motives necessarily on your part, only point out how it could reasonably be suggested that you might have a conflict of interest too. If there are two parties involved in a case that bears on this under-development policy, it would seem that both could equally be seen to be having a potential conflict of interest. As such, I'd expect both to recuse themselves. · Katefan0 21:12, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

By your rationale, Katefan, any editor who has ever been harmed by personal attacks, legal threats, vandalism, 3RR, or any number of other similar problems that many editors encounter regularly on Misplaced Pages is also conflicted from contributing to the development of any policy or guideline regarding the same offenses. But that would be an absurd stipulation that ultimately inhibits the development of those policies since every editor encounters one or another sometime on wikipedia. Those editors contributing constructively to the development of the said policy or guideline gain nothing more than the cumulative outcome of its application to wikipedia in general as a preventative measure against future disruption. Policies and guidelines do not apply ex post facto, Katefan, so no - my case against Willmcw's past stalking does not "gain" as you suggest, and indeed the object of a guideline proposal such as this is entirely for future occurrences that violate what are now two well established precedents by the Arbcom and Jimbo Wales. Those editors who have engaged in the discouraged activity in the past, however, do stand to lose from a restriction being placed against a favored inappropriate pattern of behavior in the future because it makes their future abuses subject to repercussions if they continue. Rangerdude 21:32, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

If it will help even things out I will bring a charge of wikistalking against user:Rangerude. ;) -Willmcw 22:56, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Guideline proposal discussion

Greetings - I added a proposal tag to this guideline for the purpose of aiding in its development and to gather community assistance and input on its contents. For wikipedians who are unfamiliar or unaware with this article or its subject matter, it was created recently for the purpose of reflecting two recent Misplaced Pages dispute resolution precedents in which the Arbcom and Jimbo Wales determined that certain harassing forms of wiki-stalking are bannable disruptions carrying substantial penalties for abuse. The aim of this article is accordingly to explain and clarify the concept of wiki-stalking in light of these decisions. New contributers should take a moment to review these precedents, which are described and linked to here. Suggestions pertaining to this article's proposal tag and recommended changes should be discussed in the area located below this header, as should questions or comments regarding clarification and formatting. Thank you for your input! Rangerdude 21:07, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Please read Misplaced Pages:How to create policy. It takes more than adding a "proposed" tag. Cheers, -Willmcw 22:59, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Actually, Will, the page you cite is just a guideline of methods on how to propose a policy. This is under consideration for a guideline, which is established by consensus, and is tagged accordingly as one of many ways to do so. The article itself, which "sprung up organically" from repeated precedents and developing consensus, is a sufficient and developing draft for the guideline and plenty of explanations for its need (e.g. the recent Arbcom decision) may be found here on the talk page. I've also added some links to it on the Village Pump for contributions by any interested editors. Rangerdude 23:20, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

I've added a section at the Misplaced Pages talk:Village pump (policy) to explicitly notify the community of your proposal. The link you added did not mention that there was a guideline proposal, if I read it correctly. Oh, and Misplaced Pages:How to create policy also covers guidelines. Cheers, -Willmcw 23:29, August 16, 2005 (UTC)