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I like your version of the English people picture. Just one thing, do you think we could have at least one woman? Someone from an ethnic minority would be a good idea as well. What do you think? Alun10:13, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
please review Talk:Jew to understand the coordination and collaboration that took place in choosing the image for the temple (the section "Collage image", "Ashkenazi-centric portrait collage", "Smaller collage" and later "Come one now! How are those pictures fair?" which was a reaction to your edits). This is not to say we are not open to other idea for collage but please talk about on the talk page first. While wikipedia is not an bureaucracy it is also not an anarchy but works by its own rules which you much understand in order to be a valued contributor. I hope that you continue to edit wikipedia, but please "play nice" and understand that you are not the only person trying to make wikipedia the best encyclopedia it can be. Jon51320:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Wrong address
I did not remove the image. As you can see, I am not alone rejecting it. I would suggest you listen to what people say and try to improve. Using elbows won't work. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens11:19, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
3RR
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content which gains a consensus among editors. Thank you. ←Humus sapiens11:23, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
You were warned about 3RR but you chose to violate it. Unless you self-revert quickly, you are subject to be reported and blocked. If you continue misbehaving, every subsequent block will become longer and eventually you will be banned. ←Humus sapiens11:36, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Hours later, and you still did not revert. OK, I will let it go this first time, because you are a new user, and in the spirit of good faith. Nobody is against a good photo collage, but a few problems with yours are:
You forgot to include women. At least Golda Meir and Ayn Rand should be there.
You've just made a 4th revert on the Ashkenazi Jews page. That violates the Misplaced Pages 3Rs rule. --Metzenberg20:05, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
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Hi! Wanted to alert you that Misplaced Pages has a Three Revert Rule which prohibits editors from reverting an article more than 3 times in a 24-hour period. The purpose of the rule is to prevent an edit war between editors with different views from disrupting the encyclopedia. Violating the rule can result in being blocked. I don't feel inclined to enforce the rule as a first step, so I'm not going to check exactly how many reverts you made when, but please discuss differences with other editors rather than using back-and-forth reverting, and please do be aware of the rule and be sure to observe it in the future. If necessaary you can ask an administrator to help you, including protecting the page to prevent further problems. Thanks! Best, --Shirahadasha15:00, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I have protected the page to stop an edit war from disrupting this page. Please discuss this matter on the article's talk page. I would suggest consulting the association of members' advocates or the mediation cabal if you find yourself having difficulty discussing this matter by yourself. Best, --Shirahadasha17:44, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Got your note. The page is currently protected for the time being, so no-one can edit it for now. Please explain on Talk:Ashkenazi Jews why you think the set of pictures you are proposing is a better choice. Best, --Shirahadasha18:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Also, please be sure to use the signature button on the edit tools or to add four tildes (~~~~) after your message. This "signs" your name and creates a link to your user page. Best, --Shirahadasha18:48, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Looks like you were outvoted on this one - some of the other editors who weighed in are regular editors on the page and they would probably have visited it anyway. No worries -- these things happen. Suggest finding something else to help out with or another article of interest for the time being. Best, --Shirahadasha14:07, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
A final thought. I wanted to thank you for coming up with the idea of adding a collage of pictures as a way to help spruce up the article. It's a really good touch. It adds a lot to the way the article looks. Even if others wanted to change some of the individual pictures, having a collage was your idea and you've made a lasting improvement. Best, --Shirahadasha01:03, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Thankyou, you can take of the protection now. Thanks for stoping the Edit-War there.M.V.E.i. 21:38, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
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Take a look. I tried to be politicaaly correct. Hope it's well done.
Those Estonians who we argue with are eated with self-hate. They know that their grandfathers from the forest brothers and the ss were creeps, and the fact that those creeps lost makes them even more self-hated. They will say enything to reduce their shame somehow. M.V.E.i. 21:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
See thats funny, they started an edit war, lost it, so now the're runing and complaining to anyone they could, they proved themselves to be true balts! Thats the baltic way, cheat, lie, and when they loose they run to Europe and NATO to complain they are being smashed. Those Balts here are nothing but trolls (see: Misplaced Pages:What is a troll). M.V.E.i. 19:02, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, but what war did we start and what did we lost? The arguments we have very clearly won, as you have yet to answer adequately answer any of the questions (something that requires you to actually read those sources you give - it is now blindingly obvious that you haven't read them (that was made clear by your refutal of source you gave yourself) and, in fact, have no knowledge of history other then neo-Stalinist/neo-Nazi propaganda - all your "knowledge" comes from Google). You have proven yourself to be incredibly biased and racist, believing only what fits your world-view.
Your tactics so far have been dropping sources without reading them - and when asked a question, you ignore the question or try to lead the conversation to another topic - at best claiming that "sources" have the answers, even when they rather obviously don't. DLX19:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
1) It's not polite to burge into other peoples conversations. 2) I have answered to all your questions and gave reliable links, but you everytime i proved your clain to be wrong moved from version to version. Actually, this one "You have proven yourself to be incredibly biased and racist, believing only what fits your world-view" is presicely about you. By the way, i'm anti-Stalinist (The communists i support are Rikov and others like him). My knowledge comes from real historicle books, i gave you names. I used facts agreed by the whole world, exept the Baltic states, whose history books are widely recognized as Fiction. All your "knowledge" comes from Baltic-propoganda which's only cause is to reduce the Baltic shame. M.V.E.i. 19:23, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
i live in Israel since the age of five so hhh unfortunatly i dont. Now i learn to write Russian and it goes quite well but nevertheless i still write with many mistakes and i write only with Capital letters. But i know how to read and talk Russian. M.V.E.i. 20:19, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
If i will try to write an article for the Russian Misplaced Pages it will have to much spelling mistakes. M.V.E.i. 20:21, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Little Tragedies? Their amazing. You must hear them, try downloading in eMule. When i heard them i said, one of the best Progressive-Rock bands in the world and almost unknown? Not fair. What they do is realy amazing. M.V.E.i. 20:44, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm glad you like the translation. May I ask to say your word here. Talk:Bronze_Soldier_of_Tallinn "Political & other reaction to separate article" ))) Beatle Fab Four16:45, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
DLX-Dumm Lonely Xerox. Hih, now i know what it means. Now lets start the coumtdown, it's a question of minutes for him to run and complain to the EU that i called him like that, because, you know, he's so gentil. M.V.E.i. 16:59, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages is not forum or soapbox (WP:NOT), not is it a battleground (WP:NOT#Misplaced Pages is not a battleground). Users are required to be civil and use civil language - "people must act with civility toward one another" (WP:CIV). Also, please stop edits to talk archive pages, they are called "Archives" for a reason.
You have been neither civil or reasonable - and you haven't used your edit rights for bettering Misplaced Pages. Instead you are pushing your very highly POV views (which differ significantly from any source in the world, including Soviet and Russian sources. Next time, please try to give some sources to outrageous claims).
What am I talking about? These: , , , , , , - I will not go to older edits then few days, though.
Now, as for user Beatles FF, I did not ask for his block - although, I have started to suspect that it was the best solution. His highly insulting edit summaries, promotion of racial hatred, edit warring without giving any reasons, refusing to discuss things without YELLING, bold and civilly ("Well, I get bored of your annoying comments.", "I presume you are a denier of the Holocost"), editing/deleting others and his own comments, refusing to accept even mildest criticism and taking it as a personal attack... I seriously doubt that he would have become a good editor and contributor to Misplaced Pages in the near future.
As for you, I do hope that you can find it in your heart to become civil, calm and reliable editor, who can meaningfully contribute to Misplaced Pages, always following NPOV guidelines, giving sources to your edits in articles - or sources to your claims in talk pages. DLX16:13, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
DLX, i have been there, i took part in the arguments so don't try to fool me. Your comments were really ennoying because they were full of lies you wrote to make you feel better about your nationality. He already became a good editor, he deleted lies you wrote. He fought against vandalism, because you writing lies in articles is vandalism. My sources are the most real sorces in the world, my family in which everybody fought at The Great Patriotic War 1941-1945, and those who were under Nazi occupation and saw it all. M.V.E.i. 16:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Please at least try to be calm and reasonable, I don't think it is too much to ask. Now, can you give some examples of my "lies" in both talk pages and in article, because as far as I know, I haven't said or inserted anything unsourced. Also, your family is not an acceptable source for Misplaced Pages, we really rather have verifiable sources here. And another thing - please give an example of few "good edits" done by Beatles Fab Four. DLX16:28, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
If you want good edits then check out all the times that Fab Four deleted your lies from articles. Examples of youre lies? easy:
Claiming Estonian SS was "didnt have a politcle wing" (Yeah, right, so they insisted to have the SS initials in their name because they liked the combination of the letters), claiming that the Estonian SS didnt kill any Jews (Thought the Estonians started the Holocaust in Estonia even before the Germans arrived their), and there was many other lies you wrote their, i just gave the to examples that came to my mind. M.V.E.i. 16:34, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Please, let us stay on one talk page, easier for us both.
Now, here is the edit list for user Beatles Fab Four: . Please go though that and give examples where he "deleted my lies".
I am not sure what you mean by "didnt have a politcle wing", as I am not familiar with the word "politcle". But, being WWII expert that you are, you must know that no Estonian was a member of Nazi party nor did any Estonian belong to SS-proper, only Waffen-SS. Like I quoted in the talk page:
The Nuremberg Trials, in declaring the Waffen SS a criminal organisation, explicitly excluded conscripts in the following terms:
Tribunal declares to be criminal within the meaning of the Charter the group composed of those persons who had been officially accepted as members of the SS as enumerated in the preceding paragraph who became or remained members of the organisation with knowledge that it was being used for the commission of acts declared criminal by Article 6 of the Charter or who were personally implicated as members of the organisation in the commission of such crimes, excluding, however, those who were drafted into membership by the State in such a way as to give them no choice in the matter, and who had committed no such crimes.
In April 13, 1950, a message from the U.S. High Commission in Germany (HICOG), signed by John McCloy to the Secretary of State, clarified the US position on the "Baltic Legions": they were not to be seen as "movements", "volunteer", or "SS". In short, they were not given the training, indoctrination, and induction normally given to SS members. Subsequently the US Displaced Persons Commission in September 1950 declared that:
The Baltic Waffen SS Units (Baltic Legions) are to be considered as separate and distinct in purpose, ideology, activities, and qualifications for membership from the German SS, and therefore the Commission holds them not to be a movement hostile to the Government of the United States.
It is simply ridiculous to think, that U.S. High Commission in Germany or Nurenberg Trials would have declared anything like that if there would have been even minor suspicion that the Baltic Waffen SS Units would have been involved in holocaust.
As for your repeated claim, that "the Estonians started the Holocaust in Estonia even before the Germans arrived", that is very clearly just a lie. See History of the Jews in Estonia - let me quote some relevant passages to you from there:
Approximately 200 Jews fought in combat in the Estonian War of Independence (1918-1920) for the creation of the Republic of Estonia. 70 of these men were volunteers. The creation of the Republic of Estonia in 1918 marked the beginning of a new era in the life of the Jews.
From the very first days of her existence as a state, Estonia showed her tolerance towards all ethnic and religious minorities. This set the stage for energetic growth in the political and cultural activities of Jewish society.
The cultural autonomy of minority peoples is an exceptional phenomenon in European cultural history. Therefore Jewish cultural autonomy was of great interest to global Jewish community. The Jewish National Endowment Keren Kajamet presented the Estonian government with a certificate of gratitude for this achievement.
The peaceful and active life of the small Jewish community in Estonia came to an abrupt halt in 1940 with the Soviet occupation of Estonia. Cultural autonomy in addition to all of its institutions was liquidated in July 1940. In July and August of the same year all organisations, associations, societies and corporations were closed. A large group of Jews (about 400) were deported into prison camps in Russia by the Soviet authorities on June 14, 1941.
Round-ups and killings of Jews began immediately following the arrival of the first German troops in Estonia in the summer of 1941, who were closely followed by the extermination squad Einsatzkommando (Sonderkommando) 1A, part of Einsatzgruppe A. Arrests and executions continued as the Germans advanced through Estonia. About 75% of Estonia's Jewish community, aware of the fate that otherwise awaited them, had managed to escape to the Soviet Union; virtually all the remainder (between 950 and 1000 men, women and children) were killed before the end of 1941. Fewer than a dozen Estonian Jews are known to have survived the war in Estonia.
From 1944 until 1988 the Estonian Jewish community, as elsewhere in the territories controlled by the Soviet Union, had no organisations, associations nor even clubs. The Soviet authorities were intolerant towards Zionism and all Jewry was generally equalled with Zionism.
So... let us see. Cultural independence, tolerance towards all ethnic and religious minorities, certificate of gratitude. Then, Soviets occupied Estonia and immediately sent 400 (or 500, number varies in different sources) Jews to prison camps. Very few of them were seen alive ever again.
75% of the rest fled to Soviet Union, as it was only way to go (actually, some escaped to Sweden, too - but I cannot find quickly a source for that. Nor is it relevant just now.). Germans came - and murdered the remaining Jews, no surprises there.
Soviets came back again. No cultural independence, no tolerance towards all ethnic and religious minorities, no organisations, associations nor even clubs.
Perestroika and Estonia regains independence:
Jewish Cultural Society was established in Tallinn. It was the first of its kind in the entire Soviet Union. Exceptionally in the Soviet Union, there were no problems with registering either the society or its symbols. The Society began by organising concerts and lectures. Soon the question of founding a Jewish school surfaced. As a start, a Sunday school was established in 1989. The Tallinn Jewish Gymnasium on Karu Street was being used by a vocational school. In 1990, a Jewish School with classes 1 through 9 was established.
Jewish culture clubs, which remained under the wing of the Cultural Society, were started in Tartu, Narva and Kohtla-Järve. Other organisations followed; the sports society Maccabi, the Society for the Gurini Goodwill Endowment and the Jewish Veterans Union. Life returned to the Jewish congregation. Courses in Hebrew were re-established. Thanks to the Jewish communities of Israel and other countries a relatively large library was opened.
The restoration of Estonian independence in 1991 brought about numerous political, economic and social changes. The Jews living in Estonia could now defend their rights as a national minority. The Jewish Community was established in 1992, and its charter was approved on April 11, 1992. Likewise, Estonia has traditionally regarded its Jews with friendship and accommodation. To illustrate this a new Cultural Autonomy Act, based on the 1925 law, was passed in Estonia in October 1993. This law grants minority peoples, such as Jews, a legal guarantee to preserve their national identities.
In 2005, construction began on a new building in Tallinn, which will house a sanctuary, mikvah, and restaurant, and will be a memorial to the pre-war synagogue. Opening is scheduled for May 2007.
Now... please tell me again, who mistreated Jews? And don't even try to claim that the article is written by "Nazi revisionists", as there are several Jews among the editors of the article - you cannot claim that they would allow any wrong ("Fascist") information to be said about history of the Jews. DLX17:01, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
They had a choice, they were the once who chose it. Again, they started the holocaust before the Germans came.
Who cares what they decided in 1950. It was already the cold war offcourse they will try to suck-up to ex-Nazis to tear the Soviet Union from the inside. They were involved in the holocaust, it's a fact, ask any Estonian Jew. Jews always were in every independence movement so somwhere they would be excepted. I saw a ducumentary with Jews from Estonia who menneged to escape with the Soviets, and also Estinian vitnesses, and they told how Estonians closed hundreeds of Jews in every synogoge and burned them down. You're right about what was with the Jews in USSR (I'm half Jewish, my mother is Jewish, and my grand-grandpa set in Jail there for a short time for teaching Hebrew), but nevertheless, the Soviets didn't give to Estonians to make pogroms at Jews. By the way, at the days of the Tallin Liberator reburial there were many interviews with Jews from Estonia telling how Estonians murdered their people then.
All the Jewqish community activities in the 80s and 90s was spoonsored by the Jews, and dont forget in 1987-1989 it was still the Soviet Union. Estonia is desperate for world support, thats why for now the Jews are safe there. Offcourse there are Jews among the writers of the article, but there are also Estonians. M.V.E.i. 17:34, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
You know, you are pushing your personal - and I might add, highly racist - opinion. Come up with a single source of "started the holocaust before the Germans came", because now it has as much base as my claim that President Putin is a Tooth Fairy. And do you really think cold war matters (it had not started during the Nuremberg Trials, fyi), when we are talking about crimes against humanity? How petty-minded can you get? Please look at the sources, the facts... none of them support your version of history, just face it, you are wrong.
And please do not disregard my other questions/replies, that was the favourite tactic of FBB as well - yell really loudly "You all are fascists" and keep repeating it, no matter what is said by others. DLX17:51, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
It's a fact and i explained you why and from where i took it. Putin cant be a Tuth Fairy, she's to tall for him. The cold war began when USSR was founded, it just didn't have the name yet. And abou your question, America spreat so much lies about the USSR, like saying Borman is a Russian spy (And todey even they confess it was a lie), and Senathor Joseph MacArthy who even commited crimed against humanity. Infact, USA contenued the previously-stoped cold war already at the Race For Berlin, which the Soviets won. Already at the founding of the United Nations Security Council Britain made shure France will get a seat there so the west could have more seats there (France, the country who lay as a carpet infront of the Nazis). The cold war was always in the air. M.V.E.i. 18:12, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I think I've done with both this discussion and editing Misplaced Pages for today. There is really no point to discuss this further, as you fail to provide any sources (where is the explanation for "why and from where i took it"?) or even look at any source/information I provide. Estonians have never hated or hurt the Jews, that is a simple fact (fyi, my best friend is a Jew, several Estonian "national treasures" are Jews (Eino Baskin and Eri Klas, for example)). Hopefully in the future you can open your mind for different views - for example, read different history books, all Russian, English and American. You cannot presume all of them are lying. Thank you for the discussion and I hope that our next meeting will be in better circumstances. DLX18:34, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
We will prove that DLX is a constant lier. READ THIS DLX
In May 2005, Estonian Prime Minister Andrus Ansip gave a speech while visiting Klooga in which he both condemned the Holocaust and accepted that Estonian citizens were complicit in committing war crimes during WWII: Although these murderers must answer for their crimes as individuals, the Estonian Government continues to do everything possible to expose these crimes.
I apologise for the fact that Estonian citizens could be found among those who participated in the murdering of people or assisted in the perpetration of these crimes.
THATS what i was talking about. It's a fact that Estonians, together with Latvians and Lithuenians had the highest precent of population helping to the Nazis in Europe. And DLX saying that the Estonians didn't participate in the German war-crimes, just proves my point, im Psychology this is called denial, one of the most not healthiest in Defence Mechanism. M.V.E.i. 21:20, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't see how the Ansip quote makes DLX a lier. The tragic fact is there were Nazi collaborators throughout Europe. The French did not necessarily acquit themselves well, either. All DLX said was Estonia wasn't murdering Jews to make less work for the Nazis when they arrived: which is your contention. All the Baltic states have acknowledged those who were complicit in Nazi crimes. The Latvian president, in fact, just received the highest award which the American Jewish Council bestows.
Your tirades about Baltic Nazis ("highest percentage of population participating"--your source would be?) are your opinion only.
I do not deny Russia and her Soviet-era veterans celebrating the victory over Nazism. However, I do deny Russia still insisting the Soviet Union "liberated" the Baltics--and that anything anti-Soviet = anti-(anti-Nazi hero) = Nazi. You have been listening to too much Russian propaganda. You are welcome to believe what you wish, but you are not welcome to spew it without reputable sources to properly substantiate your statements. — Pēters J. Vecrumba07:03, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
The Balts started murdering Jews so when German arrive they will see how loytal they are. YOU have been listening to much to Baltic lies that the whole world critisizes. The French colaborate with everybody they are not a role model for a brave nation, but nevertheless, the Balts colaborated more then anybody else. The soviet uniaon Liberated the Baloric states from the Nazis, anyway, the Balts who don't agree with that aw ho dont feel liberated, why dont they agree with that? Because they though that in the Nazi world they would get a place for "loyalty" to the Nazis and finaly will feel "Big People". M.V.E.i.
Please provide evidence citing a respected Jewish organization, say the American Jewish Council or the Simon Wiesenthal Center, which backs up your claim that the Balts were murdering Jews to ingratiate themselves to the Nazis before the Nazis even arrived.
Don't mistake the initial welcoming of the invading Nazis for eagerly embracing Jew-murderers, it was purely a response to the Soviets having been driven out after a year of the NKVD and Red Army having ravaged the Baltics and its inhabitants. The Nazis had their own plans for subjugating the Baltics, but for the moment, they allowed the national anthems to once again play on the airwaves.
In reference to Baltic Jews, in that first year of Soviet occupation prior to the Nazi invasion, Stalin had already decimated the Jewish merchant ("bourgeousie") class, liquidating thousands of Jews--murdered or deported to their deaths in Siberia, just like the Balts--before Hitler even arrived. If you had Jewish family or relatives in the Baltics who were murdered during the first Soviet occupation, it was Stalinism, not Nazism, that killed them. — Pēters J. Vecrumba15:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
(Ok there are to much Balts spoiling MY talk page). ITS A KNOWN FACT, it's like asking: Find me a link in the internet that fire burns if you touch it, but if you want, please:
http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/lithuania1/lithuania1.html
and the quotes:
Unlike other Nazi-occupied countries, where most Jewish citizens were put to death in gas chambers, a large majority of Jews in the Baltic countries were slaughtered brutally with firearms and other weapons by their Lithuanian, Latvian, and Estonian neighbors (sometimes under German supervision).
Children in the Kovno ghetto, whose friends had been murdered by Lithuanians, wrote in Lithuanian a bitter parody of the national anthem "Lithuania, Our Homeland":
Lithuania, Our Blood-Land
May you be accursed for centuries
Let your blood flow
Like the blood of Jewish children". (and so on)
Just type Baltic states jews murder in google and you will get more, this are only the forst two.
Finaly, you can read the book Tiggers in the Mudd, written by a Nazi soldier, where he wrote that when they arrived to Estonia all the Jewish houses were already smashed and many Jews were killed.
and there are many more like this! M.V.E.i. 17:18, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
No response? That's just nice. M.V.E.i. 11:59, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Firstly, I don't check your userpage for messages unless we are actively discussing something. Secondly, the question here is whether Estonians had massacred Jews before arrival of Germans.
Your source says "...Lithuanian, Latvian, and Estonian neighbors..". Mass pogroms in Latvia and Lithuania happened, but in Estonia, Soviets had deported all wealthier Jews (remember those 500 that were sent to Siberia? Shop and factory owners, university professors and scientists) and majority of other Jews had already gone to Soviet Union before Germans got there - around 1500 were still in Estonia. There were simply not enough Jews - nor wealthy Jews - for pogroms to happen (I think I will send an email to the professor that wrote it and ask for clarification). Those "smashed Jewish houses" that your beloved Nazi speaks of belonged to those that were already gone from Estonia - killed/deported by Soviets or fled. By the way, why do you think that he, a Nazi, spoke the truth, instead of trying to look as innocent as possible, by trying to drop guilt on others?
Also, none of your sources actually mentions that Jews were mass-killed before arrival of German troops in Estonia. See : "Of the approximately 4,300 Jews in Estonia prior to the war, between 1,500 and 2,000 were entrapped by the Nazis. These Jews also met their death at the hands of the German Einsatzgruppe.", "...1,000 Estonian Jews were killed three months after the Nazi army entered Estonia in 1941." , "From early on, the Germans subjected Estonian Jews to harsh measures including confiscation of property and forcing them to wear yellow badges identifying them as Jews. These measures were only temporary as the Nazis prepared to murder all Estonian Jews. German SS and police units, together with Estonian auxiliaries, massacred the Jews of Estonia by the end of 1941.".
Nobody has denied that there were collaborators - in Baltic countries, same as in Russia and all over Europe - and that they participated in Holocaust. Soviet Union did extensive investigations after they re-occupied Estonia, I think I remember (not sure of this fact, but won't look for source just now - will do that later, though) that they had trials of 16 Estonians for participation in Holocaust. Most of those involved were probably killed during the war or fled Estonia, but altogether there may have been perhaps at most 100..200 Estonians involved (probably less). DLX10:48, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
My friend, now we know that even freaks can start learning how to read. Do you remember his answer: none of Estonian ss legioners killed civil jews, Russians, etc. Now he admits that the figure is 100-200. It’s a big progress in his sad study, yeah. Beatle Fab Four15:33, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
I am not (and won't ever be) your friend. Don't twist my words, I have "admitted" nothing like that. Waffen SS legion and collaborators are totally different things - these collaborators were not in Waffen SS legion, like you have been repeatedly told, especially since that aforementioned legion was not even formed then. I am sorry, if you cannot to understand even simplest words. Perhaps some additional pre-school classes are required? DLX17:27, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
We won, now i argue with them just for fun, its just nice watching them trying to defend their-"dignity" (As if they have any left) and changing from one version to another (I already have a few more links prepared, but i wanna see them talking some more bullshit). M.V.E.i.
DLX, if anyone here should sit quiet it's you. You proved yourself as a true Estonian, trying to hit and when you see your to week going crying to administrators who are lazy to learn the case. Youve lost, then and now, as they say in those films, you have the right to remain silent everything you say will be used against you, it's called a knockout. M.V.E.i.
Also, you neglect Stalin's effect before the Nazis arrived. (Krushschev described Stalin as a virulent anti-Semite.) The Soviets deported or killed the Jewish civic and political elite during the first occupation, and Jews were included in the mass deportations of Balts the week before the Nazi invasion. www.jewishgen.org, the very site you mention (these numbers are only with regard to Latvia, the number across the Baltics is obviously a good deal higher):
estimates Jews were deported in the thousands; articles cited estimate 4,000-5,000, suffering numerically proportionally more at Stalin's hands than any other part of the Latvian population
and also suffering more than other ethnicities once deported (research by Dov Levin).
Because the Baltics had authoritarian regimes (as did pretty much all of Europe), that does not mean authoritarian equates to (bourgeousie) fascist equates to Nazi. That's Soviet propaganda, nothing more.
The most heinous manufacture of Soviet propaganda is not that the Soviets liberated the Baltics, but that Stalin and his Red Army were the glorious liberator of Hitler's death camps and saviors of the Jews--conveniently omitting Stalin's atrocities against the Jews of Eastern Europe. — Pēters J. Vecrumba15:38, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
P.S. The Waffen SS Eastern European units were formed after the Nazi Holocaust had taken its toll. They were created to fight against the Red Army. — Pēters J. Vecrumba15:39, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
THIS RESPONSE IS TO BOTH ESTONIANS. Read the book Tigers in the Mudd, written by a Nazi soldier, where it's written black on white that when the Nazis arrived there were already burning pofroms made by the Estonians. Dont say same as in all Europe, you cant delete numbers from history. They didn't just shut up like the French (And French ain't an example of a people with dignity aren't they, thats why in comedies the French is always a coward), they colloborated more then anybody else, unlike Russia where only a few collaborated, the masses fought against the Nazis, that's why villages were burned and people hung all over, just read this book and other books. The Red Army libarated the Jews, it's a fact, don't try to change it (Like, who are you trying to say saved them, and don't tell me Estonians). YOU DIDN'T EVEN READ THE LINKS, it's written their about the Estonian SS to, your trying to change history thats all. And i'm not a deffender of Stalin, he's a creep alright, but in the competition "Creep no. 1" the Estonians manegged to goin Hittler in the first place, but you dont say congratulations for that do you. The Estonian SS also took part in the murder of Jews in death camps. M.V.E.i.
AND HERE IS THE KNOCKOUT. The two Estonians here first said that Estonians didn't killed Jews, after a gave them the links that prove they speak lies, they moved to a version that the Estonian SS didn't kill Jews, and here are the links that prove they are wrong:
There are more where that came from, it's juat the first links that came out in Google, just type Estonian SS Killing Jews. I've got Google so, knockout. M.V.E.i.
I've been following this discussion for quite a long time and I feel I can't keep silent anymore.
2. I really can't remember DLX claiming that "Estonians didn't killed Jews" (your words), so could you point out that place? Otherwise it seems that you are simply lying.
3. You should really read the articles that you link to, not simply look them up in Google. The second of your links (http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?ModuleId=10005448) doesn't mention Estonian SS with a single word. Both others are part of Russian propaganda.
4. Read again what DLX wrote about your "Tiger in the Mud". Do you really think a Nazi soldier is a reliable source? Seems you trust Nazis too much.
5. A couple of links for you (seems you like adding links very much): http://www.holocausttaskforce.org/speeches/details/2006-07-04/document.pdf (I recommend page 16 especially). And one more - http://home.mira.net/~vanagi/AV/Latvian_Legion.pdf (about Latvian legion). A little quote: "We Americans were surprised with the just, good behaviour, kindness, and first class accuracy of the guards of the camp. Very soon, we found out that the guards of the camp were Latvians. Each of them kept hidden the Latvian national flag somewhere under their German uniform. They explained to us: "you Americans are our real friends and hope. The Germans are our hated enemies. Our dream and aim is the independent Latvia".
6. I tried to google "estonian ss kill jews" as you offered and got 50 100 results. You might think that's a lot? But then I tried to google "russia kill jews" and got 1 190 000 results! Yeah, Google really is a simple thing to find out the truth. Quercus schnobur12:41, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
1. All those baltic residents are the same for me, if you combine them into one you will get a 1/25 of a nation. 2. Just go to the talk page about the Liberator Of Tallinn, when he was asked how many Jews did estonians kill, he said "o because they didnt participate in the holocaust". 3. For you even if you will read British history books you will say "Russian Propaganda". i gave you facts, so sit quiet. 4. It's funny, you make out excuses to push out reliable sources. It's a reliabnle source because he just told what happend, offcourse he would try to show the German soldiers "as id they had no choice", but still it was recognized as a reliable objective source. He told only the truth there, if he would want to lie he would push it all on Russians, like you do, and he wouldn't agree how strong the Russians are. 5. The links you gave me are not reliable, esspecialy the second one, but the first one to. If you'll enter to Who We Are there you will see that this organization features representetives from many countries, including the Baltic ones, and they offcaurse affect there. It's not nutral. Yeah, the Germans are your Enemies yet you were their uniforms and also "worked hard" for the SS in their name. And offcaurse America would write it, after world War 2 when the Cold War is burning and they need friends agains the Russians. P.S. if you want a real american link that could be trusted check this out http://www.remember.org/secrets/ and heres an Australian one http://www.aijac.org.au/review/1997/2214/ozols.html and another nice one http://www.jewishgen.org/latvia/SIG_Newsletter/0702_SIG_January_2003.pdf 6. Results 1 - 10 of about 50,100 for Estonian SS kill Jews. (0.09 seconds). You Balts try to represent lies as truth so you could lower your national shame, it will never happen, the history is against you. M.V.E.i. 18:36, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Am I dreaming? You call an organization an unreliable source because it "features representetives from many countries"? You must be joking. And you still haven't provided a proof that DLX said that Estonians didn't kill jews, I couldn't find nothing of that kind in Bronze Soldier of Tallinn talk page (I guess that's what you mean with "Liberator Of Tallinn"). If there is one, it should easily be found here. If you can't find it you have to admit that you have lied. And still, none of the three sources you provided doesn't mention Baltic legions with a single word. Quercus schnobur11:54, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Just ask Fab Four, he've seen it i think, or even better, ask DLX, i'm not shore he'll denie it. The quote, i said, when we asked him how many Jews were killed by the Estonians he said "0, because they didn't participate in the holocaust". Estonian SS, Latvian police, it aint enough for you huh? than take this http://depts.washington.edu/baltic/papers/worldwar2.htm (go to Holocaust, paragraph 2). http://vip.latnet.lv/LPRA/nollend_hist.htm . There are many more from where those came from. M.V.E.i. 17:41, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Actually, what I said was that Estonian SS-Legion didn't participate in Holocaust in Estonia (they weren't formed before 1942, Holocaust in Estonia was done by the end of 1941) - or abroad. This still stands, and you haven't given any sources contradicting that (actually, that "abroad" is questionable, as they were stationed in a city (in Belorus, if my memory serves me correctly), during a murder of Jews there. However, they were one unit out of many there and there is no evidence of their involvement. Also, Germans usually used purely German units in such places.). But enough of that - did you actually read the second source that you gave, History of the Occupation of Latvia (1940-1991)? This is an excellent source about Soviet and German occupations - and Holocaust - which contradicts many things that you have claimed. Everything in there seems to be very solidly sourced in both English and Latvian, cannot say for sure, as I read it only briefly. DLX18:03, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Check out all the links i have given here, and you will see that the Estonian SS was not only in Estonia but elso in other countries, where it participated in the murdering of Jews. In Estonia etself most of the Jews were destroyed by 1943, by Germans and mainy by the locals, but some were still left after 1943, and they were destroyed by the Estonian SS. Just read the links i have given here. And the web site you gave me is not reliable, it's Latvian, and the Baltic goverments now try to re-write history so it would lower their shame, esspecially now that thay want to be Europe (thought they didn't make and contribution to Europe, the opposite is true). The text i gave you are perfectly sourced and are basid on historic document, if you want read it word by word and not briefly. M.V.E.i. 18:34, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Blocked
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 31 hours in accordance with Misplaced Pages's blocking policy for repeated abuse of editing privileges. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below.
You, sir, have been disrupting various talk pages with your personal attacks against all and sundry who do not share your particular point of view. This stops now. Once your block expires, you can disagree with whomever you want as strongly as you want, but you will please do it with perfect civility, or you will face decidedly longer blocks. Sandstein21:49, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I didn't write PD-old, i wrote PD-art. Point of view?? You started blocking people and you didn't even learn the case. This Estonian wrote lies, he tried to lie about World War 2 to make himself feel less shame about his nationallity. He wrote such obvious lies, that it was just pure vandalism. You, by blocking us instead of him, took part in this vandalism, because now those few Estonians who write lies there could write anything they want, and there will be no one to stop them. M.V.E.i. 16:55, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
You, dear sir, are a liar. I am in no way shamed about my "nationallity", perhaps the opposite might apply. How about actually showing where I lied or vandalized the article, instead of using Soviet-style propaganda BS? I have asked for proof from you quite several times by now - you have failed to respond. And you really should apologize to Estonians for your racist remarks. DLX20:20, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm proud of mine. You are shames, thats why you lie, to reduce your shame. Examples of lies are when you said Estonian SS didn't kill any Jews, and you had many other like that. M.V.E.i. 21:06, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Together we will win. We all ordinary Russians condemn Stalin crimes, but this DLX cannot admit elementary things about Estonian WW2 crimes. BTW he constantly purges wiki articles on such crimes. LOVE AND PEACE 85.140.211.20021:14, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
We already won, in 1945. The truth is one, and there are to many people that know it, so DLX could not change it. By the way, about the Sandstein or whatever who blocked us, i knew that would happen. He's a German, so i expected it. He didn't say anything to DLX about what he does. M.V.E.i. 21:26, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Those Estonians can shout till the morrning, that still won't change the fact there liers. I dont even care about the block, its temporery, the truth is eternal. M.V.E.i. 21:42, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
P.S. you were blocked for violating the 3 revert rule right? check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Ignore_all_rules i think that fighting vandalizm improves articles. By fighting vandalism and ignoring the 3 revert rule you followed by this rule that i gave you the link to it. M.V.E.i. 21:49, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Image:8_May_2007.JPG listed for deletion
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They are not copyrigted, cmmon is that your way to fight me? Saying on Free-Domains there copyrighted? Nice. Their license were copied excecly as they were writen on their original pages on Misplaced Pages. M.V.E.i. 18:27, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
I am not fighting you. I am trying to make you conform to our policies. You did not specify the images' source, as you must under the image use policy. Please read it, and follow it. These were Soviet medals, and I am quite sure the Soviet government didn't licence anything under a Creative Commons licence. Sandstein18:38, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Go to the Soviet Medals page and see. M.V.E.i. 18:49, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok that i didn't know, thanks. M.V.E.i. 20:21, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
License tagging for Image:FromSiezd.JPG
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Listen, you must urgently read and apply our image use policy. The image you uploaded, File:FromSiezd.JPG (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs), has no source ("the website" isn't a valid source) and you have improperly tagged it as {{PD-Art}}. It's a contemporary photograph, and obviously not a reproduction of a two-dimensional work of art that is in the public domain. Please bring this image and all the other images you uploaded into compliance with the image use policy immediately. You will be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages for any further copyright violations. Sandstein05:37, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Are you spying on my contribution pahe or somthing so you could find a reasin to block me?? I saw it doesnt fit so i deleted it after a few minutes. M.V.E.i. 18:48, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not trying to find a reason to block you, I'm trying to make you conform to our policies. And no, you did not delete the image, because you cannot. It is still uploaded. Click here to see it. Please bring it into conformance with the WP:IUP immediately. Sandstein18:56, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
That i don't know hoe to do, BUT if you like you can do that. I nevertheless de;eted it from the article i have puted it into. If you would like you can explaine me the next thing, what license fits a public domain from the internet. M.V.E.i. 19:00, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
No, it is important that you know how to handle images properly, or you could get Misplaced Pages into legal trouble. Please read WP:IUP and ask if you have any specific questions. As to your question, if an image is in the public domain, it does not have a licence. It must have a image copyright tag, though. You must now add the correct source of the image to the image page, and then you must apply the correct image copyright tag, which you can select from here. Sandstein19:17, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I tried to follow what they say but it still didn't come out right. M.V.E.i. 19:31, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that's wrong. The source link must be outside the template. There is no copyright tag {{CopyrightedFreeUse}}. And why do you think this image is in the public domain? Where does it say so on the website? Sandstein19:46, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I know the menneger of the website, it's free alright. Anyway, please help, what licence do i put if it's a free photo from the Internet? M.V.E.i. 16:30, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
The correct tag would be {{PD-author}}. But that you know the manager of the website is not enough. You must only upload Web-found PD images if there is proof, which others can verify, that the image is PD. For instance, a statement on the website that says "our images are public domain". Without such proof, your uploads are presumed to be copyright infringements. Sandstein18:41, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Do not troll article talk pages.
This is a final warning. Your recent additions to Talk:Bronze Soldier of Tallinn were removed for containing inflammatory political discourse completely foreign to the article's subject. Misplaced Pages talk pages are not a general discussion forum. See WP:TPG. Repeated trolling of this sort may lead to blocks. Sandstein18:50, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
You didn't delete their lies, by nevertheless you deleted the links i gave that prove my point. M.V.E.i. 18:58, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 48 hours in accordance with Misplaced Pages's blocking policy for repeated disruption of article talk pages with offtopic inflammatory political discourse. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below. Sandstein20:26, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
How do they give people like you to be administrators. M.V.E.i. 21:12, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
image: 8_May_2007.JPG
The image file name and quote is inaccurate:
"The statue at the new location. Photo taken on May 8, 2007 (European VE Day), when a quiet ceremony was held. On the next day, May 9, 2007 (Russian Victory Day), the place was crowded with people and flowers."
On the picture the visible people include from the left:
2nd: Nikolay Uspensky - Russian ambassador in Estonia
4th (with white hair): Nikolay Kovalev - leader of the Russian State Duma delegation
6th (younger man at the forefront): Leonid Slutsky - member of the Russian State Duma delegation
Russian State Duma delegation visited the new location of the statue on May 1st. On 8th May they had already left Estonia. Russian Embassy and the ambassador in Estonia refused to take part in the 8th May activities of reopening the site. Russian Embassy visited site on 9th May.
This photograph is most certainly taken on May 1st.
Notable is also, that contrary to WIKI traditions, the image is supplied only in low resolution thumbnail, without original version in actual resolution, including EXIF data.
Yeah but it's afree domain so many could use it. For East-Europeans the 9th May is the Victory Day. M.V.E.i. 10:25, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
I understand from the image summary that you've received permission from the copyright owner of this image to release it into the public domain. For this to be valid on Misplaced Pages you need to send it in to permissions-en@wikimedia.org - full details can be found Misplaced Pages:Requesting copyright permission. Without this evidence, the image may still be deleted. 09:58, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I already deleted it from the E-Mail, but the fact that people found it on different Web-Sites it's the prove that it's a Public Domain. Besides, it's not a special permission for Misplaced Pages to use it, it's just me asking if it's a public domain and them answering that it is. The article from which i took it was from the 8th may, so. ok this one came out as a stupid mistake from me. Anyway, it does'nt change the fact that it's a Public Domain. M.V.E.i. 11:57, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
The fact that other websites use it does not automatically make the image public domain. Without the evidence it it just your word and Misplaced Pages relies on the principles of verification - WP:V so unfortunately that isn't good enough. I'm going to tag the image as {{PUIdisputed}} as this needs to be discussed further.Madmedea15:02, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
The guys from the web-site told me so, that it's a PD. M.V.E.i. 19:54, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
It's a shame if you'll take it of there, it's a really good photo. M.V.E.i. 20:08, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
"Stupid" arguments
Please refrain from using offensive language in your discussions, like the one on the discussion page of Russians in Ukraine. Characterizing an opponent or his comments as "stupid" is uncivil and is uncalled for. (see WP:NPA) If your behaviour doesn't change you will be reported to the administrators. Hope it will not be necessary.--Hillock6519:28, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
When did i call nyone stupid there? M.V.E.i. 19:29, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok, i have seen. Sorry, i ment that trying to hurt other nationalities is stupid i didn't try to insult you, sorry. M.V.E.i. 19:31, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
On the image illustrating ethnic Russians
The article is not about the history of culture in the Russian state, it's about ethnic Russians. There is a wide variety of famous ethnic Russians to represent the ethnicity, and there is no need in providing a picture with those who are in some way not fully representative of the Russian ethnicity. So please, let's keep Pushkin out of this, and let's not confuse ethnicity with nationality (as in citizenship). I'm not that sure about Donskoi myself, I would actually prefer Nevsky, as he is extremely famous (and not for his cooperation with the Golden Horde). However, you can offer some other medieval ruler, if you want. Or maybe a saint, like Sergiy Radonezhsky, though his appearance is inconspicious, whereas it would certainly be proper to underline the rugged nature of Medieval Russians. The size of the image is identical to the one used on the Polish and the English sites, and smaller than the Italian one. Speaking of Mendeleev, the picture is simply not good. Besides, his periodic table isn't used in English-speaking countries, so he's not that famous. At any rate, there is a huge variety of important Russian inventors, but I believe that Mikhail Lomonosov is an adequate representative of the whole Russian scientific community, a Renaissanse man as he was. I'm opposed to increasing the number of pictures on the image. It's an illustration, after all, and not a hall of fame. And we'll have to make the portraits really narrow, since at the moment they properly correspond with the proportions of an average human face. Will it be okay if I simply replace Vasnetsov with Dostoevsky? Humanophage 20:42, 23 May, 2007 (UTC)
Why Pushkin can't be considered Russian? Because one of his grand-granndfathers was black? It's a stupid argument, I believe. Beatle Fab Four19:45, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree on that, i mean, Chikovski was half French (which explains his sexual orientation), and yet he considered himself Ethnic Russian thought he was only half Ethnic Russian, and he's the greatest composer of Russia and maybe the worlds. Pushknin is a symbol, he started what eventually ended with Russian literature being the greatest in the world, and he was mostly Ethnic Russian. M.V.E.i. 20:04, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Donskoy is exelent, but if Ivan III of Russia fits here. With all respect to Vasnetsov, i thing that replace Vasnetsov with Dostoevsky is a great idea. Pushkin was mostly Ethnic Russian. Mendeleyevs table is tought everywere, it doesn't netter if it's called The Mendeleyevs Table or just the Periodic Table. Anyway, about making the image biger your right, so lets agree on puting Ivan III instead od Donskoy and replace Vasnetsov with Dostoevsky, but i still think that Pushkin should replace Yesenin (but i can see that on that we have no concensus, so just lets agree on the Ivan III and Dostoyevski). M.V.E.i. 20:00, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Glad that we managed to reach an agreement. I actually don't mind Donskoy at all, it's just that I had certain objections regarding Nevsky. The problem with Donskoy is that he's not so well-known outside Russia. Ivan III is a nice suggestion, but he isn't famous either, so I'd say it's better to keep Doskoy there, since he is so symbolic for the Russians. Hopefully, the rest of the world shall know him better one day. As for Ivan III, his first Misplaced Pages image isn't particularly complimentary, although the icon is fine (even though a bit abstract in comparison to that of Donskoy) and a freedom-fighting duke such as Donskoy would probably be more appealing to the public than Ivan III with his authoritarian style. What are your thoughts on this subject? P.S. Oh, and I actually agree with you on Dostoyevsky. Indeed, it's often noted that literature somewhat overweights the rest of Russian cultural achievements. The same thing as with all the British ethnicities. Humanophage 21:42, 23 May, 2007 (UTC)
Bro, frankly, I'm shocked by these Stone Age arguments, or more correctly, crap. "Esenin is a liitle bit better ethnically than Pushkin, as his lips and eyes are right." Bullshit. Absolute bullshit. Beatle Fab Four20:51, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
I also still think the Pushkin fits more then Yesenin. M.V.E.i. 09:43, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I think that now it's perfect, we've reached the complete consensus. About Ivan III, actually, to the people he was nice, he was bad to the Boyars, but he had a reason for that. They were cruel to the people and took to much part in the government, but nevertheless, Donskoy is a symbol for the ideal freedom-fighter, he's the most not-controversious man there is Yesterday i wanted to offer Tarkovsky but there is no place there, so the current image is the most perfect it can be, but i still belive that Pushkin fits here. M.V.E.i. 09:43, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Please don't troll checkuser requests
While I understand, and on some levels share, your concerns about the nationalist editors, trolling checkuser requests is not constructive. Please stop. --Selket22:35, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
If they want me to be honest, they should be to. They start edit wars and vandalize articles. It's not ok from their side, i just wanted them to fill how it fills when someone uses not-fair methods against them. M.V.E.i. 09:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Why are you ignoring the E-Mails i send you? You didn't even learn and try to understand my side of the conflict. M.V.E.i. 16:03, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
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Following the discussion on WP:AN/I#User:M.V.E.i. I have decided to shorten your block to 1 month. Please never again try to evade your block by sockpuppeting or editing as IP. It would make your block reset and possibly increased. Many good but short-tempered users were caught in the vicious cycle block-avoidance-longer block-sock puppeting-...-permablock please do not follow their steps. The correct way to answer an argument or correct an article while blocked is to post suggestion on your talk page or E-mail a user (e.g. me). I would be happy to make correction or post your argument on your behalf.
When the block would expire please behave civilly. There are many points of view presented on Misplaced Pages. As a rule of thumb the more foreign and wrong the POV is the more restrained you should be in your approach to the carrier. Alex Bakharev01:47, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, your an honest guy! M.V.E.i. 22:53, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
I am afraid Alex failed to discuss the block with the blocking admin. Until he does so I have reverted your block to indefinite. Neil╦10:05, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Holocaust denial
In the heated argument, one of your opponents posted a comment or edit summary stating that (20,000) Jews could not have been exterminated in Estonia in 1943 - 1944, because Estonia was declared Judenfrei already in 1941. I could not find the post now. You might be able to locate it. -- Petri Krohn15:36, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
I searched for it but couldn't find it. If i woldn't be blocked i could response them on some of the stuff they write on me, they just say so many things which are absurd. M.V.E.i. 17:53, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
That bullshit is on your page. See "...Holocaust in Estonia was done by the end of 1941. ...". Definitely, NOT. Well, yes, it shows his dilettantism, to speak softly.
Hh, found it. So i wasted time on the Bronze Liberator talk page to find it for nothing. P.S. I left you a time ago a messege on your talk page. M.V.E.i. 19:09, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Ok the one who said it was DLX on my talk page. You can find in in the following link: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:M.V.E.i.&redirect=no#Your_recent_actions
Here is the quote-"Round-ups and killings of Jews began immediately following the arrival of the first German troops in Estonia in the summer of 1941, who were closely followed by the extermination squad Einsatzkommando (Sonderkommando) 1A, part of Einsatzgruppe A. Arrests and executions continued as the Germans advanced through Estonia. About 75% of Estonia's Jewish community, aware of the fate that otherwise awaited them, had managed to escape to the Soviet Union; virtually all the remainder (between 950 and 1000 men, women and children) were killed before the end of 1941. Fewer than a dozen Estonian Jews are known to have survived the war in Estonia.". M.V.E.i. 19:09, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Another time they denial partas of Holocaust history is claiming "Estonian SS didn't kill Jews". Maybe the Estonian collaborators were fast in killing the Estonian Jews, but the Estonian SS took part on killing Jews in a few labour camps and in Belarus. M.V.E.i. 19:12, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
O'mi, he keeps repeating it. M.V.E.i. 17:04, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Beatle, Petri, check this out
In the Bronze Liberator article, in the bottom you can see:
Wikiquote has a collection of quotations related to
Andrus Ansip.
I think it's irrelevant to the article, could anybody delete this? because i'm blocked and can write only on my talk page, so i cant delete. M.V.E.i. 20:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Your right, thats why i told you about it. M.V.E.i. 21:50, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Guys
On the new discussion on me on the Administrators page (http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Sanity_check_please) among the froups i "hate" they have put Israelis. Could someone please explain them i'm an Israeli and that i said it that someone used a census that says there are 2.5 Million Russians in USA, i said that the same census shows a number of Israelis, and their aint such a narionality. But their really aint, we Israelis are Jews, just like their aint such nationality Rossiyani. I said that so they would undertand that this census talks about Citizenship not Ethnic group. M.V.E.i. 22:36, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
Alex, here is the explanation note you asked me to write, you can give the link to it on the page the discussion is now held.
Because of me being blocked, i could'nt explain many stuff said on me, which usually was wrong understood and shown.
Among the groups i "hate" Neil gave Israelis because i said "theres no such race as Israelis". I'm an Israeli and i said itwhen someone used a census that says there are 2.5 Million Russians in USA, i said that the same census shows a number of Israelis, and their aint such a nationality. But their really aint, we Israelis are Jews, just like their aint such nationality Rossiyani. I said that so the user i talked to would see that this census talks about Citizenship not Ethnic group. About the other groups, i dont hate any. About the French, it's a joke guys. About the Germans, i like Rammstein, and it came from anger. About the Balts, i don't hate those who didn't collaborate.
I never called races subhuman, i calles those people who collaborated with the Nazis subhuman, and i still think this way.
When i really used the phrase "little people" towords balts is because i came from a family of those who fought against the Nazis for the USSR at World War 2, and i had many who died at the holocaust at my Jewish side (Jewish mother), ond of hunger (Russian Side), and some things DLX here said made me mad, i shouldn't loose my temper there.
I relly shouldn't have lost my temper, actually i'm not a conflict person. If anybody wants to know, when their was an edit war on an article i've created i tryed to make peace beetwen the wariers. The current Russian people image came after a compromise between me and the one who uploaded it. I came to Misplaced Pages to contribute, and more in Music then in Politics. I still hold the same views on DLX, but i agree a shouldn't have lost my temper, and be shure from now i will express my views without frases like "little People", i learned my lesson. I'm glad most support to reduce my block to one month, because it's not easy to keep the articles i now write for Misplaced Pages as Word documents on my computer. M.V.E.i. 17:31, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Block length
M.V.E.i., it would be better if you could avoid expressing your political views in any way on Misplaced Pages. There isn't really a consensus on the admin noticeboard about what to do about your block - half want it to be a month, half want it to be indefinite. If you can agree to watch what you say, and avoid making any kind of nationalistic comments, or anything that could be perceived as grossly anti-Estonian, anti-Balt, or anti-French (I think those were the main peoples you kept denigrating), or anti-anyone, I will reduce the block to 2 months (from the date of the original offence) - how does that sound?
In particular, I would like you to stop arguing to DLX. If he says something that upsets you, try to just go and do something else (on or off Misplaced Pages) - you do not have to respond, I think this is what has gotten you into trouble. I will wait to see your response here; if you can promise to be nice, I'll reduce your block length to expire on the 4th of August. I'll also roll back your user page.
I would warn you that any further kind of racism or hatespeech would see you indefinitely blocked and nobody would listen to your appeal then. Neil╦21:29, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Are you suggesting that if M.V.E.i. would just stay clear of the "political" articles, he wouldn't make bigoted slurs? Digwuren05:24, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I actually dont make those in political articles to, here i just got pissed off, and in that case i will not loose my temper in the future and would talk civil. M.V.E.i. 14:03, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm just going to do it in a more civil way, without leting myself loose it if i get pissed-off. I'm not a nationalist, i used ethnic insults because, i already explained why, but i'm aware it was not ok. Some things he said made me mad, like "Estonian SS didn't kill any Jews" (Thought i had many who were killed in the holocaust in Belarus, and i know that the Estonian SS took part there), and like claiming the Holocause in Estonia started with the German arrival thought a German-Officer in the book Tiggers in the Mudd said that when the Germans arrived the Estonians already finished most of the Jews. During this argument, i lost my temper and talked uncivil, and that was my mistake, which in the future i will avoid to make. I'm not Anti-French (it was a joke, probablly not a good one) or anti-German (i'm a fan of Rammstein) and i'm not Anti-Baltic, just anti those who collaborated with the Nazis. M.V.E.i. 14:03, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Block length reduced
After a conversation with Alex Bakharev, your block will now expire on 4 August. Trying to post anywhere other than this talk page between now and then will probably lead to the block becoming indefinite again. Neil╦10:16, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. M.V.E.i. 14:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Alex, Beatle, Petri, thank you
You helped me and while i was blocked you held my defence, thank you! After my block will be finished i'm gonna add thank-you medals on your pages. Thank you! M.V.E.i. 14:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Digwuren again
Digwuren created this document against Petri Krohn. All i can say is that always when someone looses a war, he starts cursing the winner, and that's what happened, after Petri won the war here. Alex puted this page in the category of Miscellaneous pages for deletion, which is the right move, but Nevertheless, i dont think that a user who creates hate-pages on Misplaced Pages desurves to stay unpunished. That is a hate page which's only intention is to humiliate another user. May i say, that by creating this page Digwuren humiliated only himself. M.V.E.i. 16:55, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
After my block will be over i could wright even a funier page on you and your friends, but i wont do it, because unlike you, i dont have time to create a whole page just to humiliate somebody. The really funny thing is that the things Petri said, which you gave links to, are completely true. The rest you added, where you widely allowed youeself to use imagination, just shows your hate to him, nothing else. Again, you humiliated only yourself. M.V.E.i. 19:33, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
The reason there are few references is that in the initial stages of the compilation, it was intended for a private map of Petri Krohn's weird ideas. Know thy enemy, as the old Romans said. I only started adding external references when I thought it might be of wider use -- and somebody not familiar with his history might consider his advocating some of the weirder ideas -- such as the "Bronze Soldier as a place of worship" -- unbelievable otherwise. I believe, however, that pretty much everything is traceable to actual Petri Krohn's quotations -- with the possible exception of the semiartificial "In the beginning ..." cutoff, which I borrowed from Roobit. Nevertheless, I can support even this choice.
By the way, you've still not pointed at anything particularly wrong about this article. As long as you limit yourself to making vague accusations of 'ridiculing', your opinion in this matter remains worthless. Digwuren20:46, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Thats the whole thing, you've taken real facts and you showed them as rediculous once, except adding compliments towords Stalin, but that Petri never said. And about the Red Army, for many, they are god, at least for all of those that were turned to slaves by the Nazis. Ask any Jews from Auswitz, or every Polish that was sent to labour camps. Read any book of a holocaust survivor, and in every book you could read how the people waited for the Red Army, and how the people were happy when the Red Army came. The Red Army saved the world. Who didn't want the Red Army to arrive? Those who collaborated with the Nazis, those who were Politzeis while the Nazis were in control, those who during the Nazis felt high because of them being ethnicaly close to the Germans. M.V.E.i. 11:11, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Who didn't want the Red Army to arrive? Maybe those who had got taste of freedom under Stalin(deportations and executions) before. World is not black and white.--Staberinde15:00, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Exaclly, the world is not black and white, so you can't denie that the Red Army saved the world. Stalin is a criminal, and nevertheless, this was not what the Great Patriotic War was about. Nobody in the USSR liked him, but not for him the people were fighting. They were fighting against occupation, against those who burned their houses and took their lands, against those who came to destroy. During the war people didn't even think about Stalin, even people who were perviously hurt by Stalin went to fight against the Nazis for the red Army (like the father of my father, who was a war-hero fighting for the Red Army against the Nazis, thought his father was a peasent killed by the NKVD at 1930, on fales ocusations of "anti societ propoganda). So as you can see, real-freedom lovers didn't like Stalin, but they knew Hittler who openly wanted to turn them into slaves is much worse. M.V.E.i. 16:43, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
There was good saying about that how Soviet and German occupations changed, rough translation: "one robberer saved us from another robberer". I do not deny that Russians had full right to fight aganist Hitler, but that did not give them any right to occupy baltic states at first place(which btw was done by Molotov-Ribbentrop pact), kill their political and cultural elite, and then after war continue occupying for 50 years.--Staberinde19:57, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Wow wow, for those 50 years of "occupation" the Baltic states were technologicaly improved and rebuilt. I'm not in favour of occupation, i think it was not fair what was done to the Finns, but about the Baltic states, if USSR wouldn't occupie them then Germany would, USSR couldnt alow itself to make this mistake in the long run. The Soviet soldiers were not "robbers", the NKVD, yes, but the once who were hurt by it the most were the Russians themselves.
I know it's a kind of shock, but has anybody told you that Germany was in no position to occupy anything after the WWII? Digwuren20:44, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
That i said about the Pre-war time, the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact? That is the time i was talking about. M.V.E.i. 20:53, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Explain what exacly doesn't make sense. M.V.E.i. 12:09, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Ah, at one sentence you say how nobody liked Stalin etc, and in other one you already start justifying his actions, interesting why I am not suprized at all. And that "technological improvization" is classical example of soviet propaganda. Pre-war Estonia was at Finland's level, currently it is still far behind even though economical growth at last few years has been extremely fast.--Staberinde20:29, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Finland back then was not very developed, now they are a modern state (and must i say, a beautiful one, by the photos i've seen, but that i belive it always had). Anyway, as part of the USSR, in the 60s and 70s it was more developed then Finland because then it was the "Golden Era" of USSR. It had an economic crash in the 80s, which continued in the 90s, but that all the USSR-CIS had. And the fast economic growth comes not thanks to the Baltic governments but to the natural proces of "stabilization", it happens in the whole CIS. And another thing about Finland, don't forget that World War Two never touched her territory, that helped her to develope nice and fast (I'm talking about the war itself, not about the Ice War). M.V.E.i. 20:53, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
You might be interested in the summary of occupation damages at Estonian SSR. The damages were not qualitatively different wrt other Soviet-occupied territories. Digwuren20:42, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
Russia, Ukraine and Belarus had much more damage in them. M.V.E.i. 20:53, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I already have 4 new articles i will upload after my block expires, 3 about Russian rock (about 3 bands) and one about the Russian Culture House in Lvov. What Soviet demege? During the Tsar all the residents of those states were peasents who were Slaves of the Tsar and his gang, while the Soviet regime turned USSR, and esspecialy those three countries into an Empire, and gave everybody a chance to get education. The Cheka/NKVD really were sadists who didn't want to work so they invented fictional enemies, but the Soviet method is actually exelent. M.V.E.i. 11:48, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
A question, all of you who supported me being indefinitely blocked, have you made my user page as your Home Page or are you on guard to see me say something you could go and complain about at the administrators page? M.V.E.i. 17:58, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Hhh while i'm blocked iv'e got nothing better to do in Misplaced Pages (nevertheless, iv'e got 4 new articles written on my computer), and i didn't like them making a hate page against Petri. The new DDT cd is out now, now that's interesting (the previous one was one of their highlights, i wonder what the new one is like)! M.V.E.i. 17:50, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:Novorossiya.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Novorossiya.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot02:37, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
At the time it was the only-map that was available, but since then someone added a self-made map of the area, so the one i uploaded can be deleted. M.V.E.i. 13:59, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Zinchuk.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Misplaced Pages articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Misplaced Pages:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Misplaced Pages policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Ricky81682 (talk) 19:14, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm kind-of blocked now so i cant write there. Anyway, its fair use because it's a promotional photo from his 12 Guitars Of The Master tour. I used it because i didnt find a public domain to use there. M.V.E.i. 22:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Bi-2.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Misplaced Pages articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Misplaced Pages:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Misplaced Pages policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. MER-C09:58, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Ok sorry, you just seem to be interested in Russia so i took you for Russian. I'm just filling this category i've created, Russian Wikipedians. M.V.E.i. 19:45, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
MVEi, no one is doubting your best intentions but please understand that it is easy to make an error when judging another person's ethnicity in general. Most importantly, Russian users may or may not want to be listed in such category for various reasons such as unwillingness to be judged as pushers or Russian POV, cosmopolitism, etc. It is sufficient to create the cat, announce it and give users a chance to add the cat to their page themselves. Please self-revert your addition of the users to the cat. TIA, --Irpen19:57, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
From now on i will be more cerfull, sorry for the mistakes. But the thing is that the category is new, i'm shure that not many know about this announcment page, so thats how i try to notify the users of its appearance. M.V.E.i. 20:07, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
I dont refuse to stop vandalism. Ok i'll stop adding people to the category. I still don't anderstand why people didn't like me doing this, but anyway, i'll stop. M.V.E.i. 22:30, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
And please read what i responsed down here to the user Alex Smotrov. M.V.E.i. 22:37, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
But it's a new category how else would people know about it? When a friend here edited my user page, i loved it, and i know that if someone would help me with the categories thing i would love it to. I mean, people who don't want to have this category will delete it, but people who wanted but didnt know about it will be thankful. I set here a long time searching for people who fit and it wasnt easey, and in Israel, wher i live, it's already 1:26 at night, and now i get scandals. I dont think it's fair! M.V.E.i. 22:26, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
I dont refuse, i responsed to you once i've seen your messege. I didn't think it bugs people that much, i thout it bugs only a not-Russian person being added to the category. I responsed to your messege once i've seen it, and the catigorisation, only a few minutes later i understood that i was also blocked. I didn't even know the rules about it, i didn't think i was doing sonthing wrong i thought i was saving people work, i mean, why else i would spend hours till 1:36 at night by Israeli time if i wouldnt think i'm doing sonthing good? I really didnt want no harm. M.V.E.i. 22:36, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
There are categories of beople by location, and categories of people by ethnicity. Those are different. M.V.E.i. 13:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Please also understand that the block wasn't meant to punish you for your intentions, which were certainly good, but to minimize further damage until it's clear that you understood what others have been pointing out to you, and until you stop adding the categories. Irpen and Míkka suggested other ways of "advertising" the newly created category. If you feel so strongly about it, you can draw other users' attention to your category on their talk page, and let them add it, if they wish. In general, it's "Keep Your Hands Off My User Page" and many users are sensitive about this. There are some guidelines under Misplaced Pages:User page. ---Sluzzelintalk22:59, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Ok i understand, i have no problem with the block. M.V.E.i. 13:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
M.V.E.i, if you promise not to add the controversial category to people's user pages then John or me would immediately unblock you.
I, personally, do not like the new category and rather have it deleted. The reason that it is not helpful for the Encyclopedia and potentially can be quite divisive. We already have Babel userboxes. People who has native level of Russian language are probably belong to Russian culture in some way. The way you have added the category seems to put people with vaguely "pro-Russian" point of view. It makes very easy to canvass pro-Russian users into any editorial conflict. I think it is wrong, editors should act as individuals rather than large discipline parties. That is why we do not have categories like Category:Republican wikipedians or Category:Wikipedians supporting abortion or Category:Communist wikipedians. There is T1 criteria in WP:CSD, I think it should be applied to categories as well. Alex Bakharev05:02, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
"I think it is wrong, editors should act as individuals rather than large discipline parties." I could not help but notice apparent contradiction between this statement from admin and this same admin's behaviour when attempts had been made to reign in the certain group of Estonian wikipedians (who escaped summary ban for sockpuppetry only because it is impossible to distinguish one user of Tartu university's network from another).RJ CG16:35, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
Offcourse i agreee not adding. I thought people would like it, but people didnt. I just didn't know the laws about it, now i know. M.V.E.i. 13:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Not having such categories is certainly not of any help against canvassing. This rationale doesn't go. Digwuren10:01, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Umm… can we say "promise not to add any category to users' pages"? Even if the category was nice and proper you cannot simply go and tag other users' pages, in my opinion it's uncivil ∴ Alex Smotrov05:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree not to add i understand the law now, but at the moment i thought i'm realy doing people a favour. M.V.E.i. 13:16, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Then one off-topic question: do you think you're doing people a favour by making your signature a plaint text? Let me quote WP:SIG here: "…user page or user talk page… At least one of those 2 pages must be linked from your signature" ∴ Alex Smotrov13:32, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
I thought i was doing people a favour because i new that if someone would add me to a cotegory of somthing i really am i would be greatful to him for that, but i see i was wrong. Please explain what you mean by saying i'm making my signature a plaint text. M.V.E.i. 16:41, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Your signature "M.V.E.i." is not a link, it's not "clickable", I'm not sure how else I can explain it. I linked WP:SIG in my post above, please read that. Or you could simply got to your personal preferences and uncheck "Raw signature" checkbox ∴ Alex Smotrov16:56, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
A tag has been placed on National Bolshevik Party USA, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done because the article appears to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.
If you think that you can assert the notability of the subject, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm the subject's notability under Misplaced Pages guidelines.
You wrote that National Bolshevik Party USA is "a group that exists," with a website, and that "Every article has the right to appear here as long as it's given references.". That's not an accurate statement of Misplaced Pages policies. "An article about a real person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content that does not assert the importance or significance of its subject." is subject to speedy deletion (speedy delete category a7).
I have examined the article, and although I do not want to over-rule the deleting admin, I think a reasonable approach would be to go to WP:Deletion Review. Please read WP:CD first, and its talk page, so you can better see the factors involved in "assert importance". DGG (talk) 02:19, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
I think the deletion has it merits but the article is nicely formatted and the info may be useful. Maybe I would userfy the article into your userspace? Then you could add 3d party references showing notability and move the article into the mainspace again or merge the article with the main article on National Bolshevik Party? Alex Bakharev05:20, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Mmm i don't think its possible. The originlt NBP article talks about the Russian party, NBP USA talks about the american party. They don't have connection. It's like merging Communist Party of America with Communist Party of the Soviet Union. The whole idea of NBP USA that it's a seperate party that fited the ideology to the American reality and talks about American-life topics. M.V.E.i.07:27, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm not shure it will look good. Its a party, and the party articles are seperate. National Bolshevism is an article about the history and ideology, maximum i could add there about NBP USA is a line in Present day currents, but it's actually already added. M.V.E.i.08:14, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Please don't wage revert war
I noticed that you re-inserted the AntiRussianPoster.jpg in the Russians in Ukraine. As you might have noticed, this image's use in this article violates the fair use rationale under which it is used in Misplaced Pages. Please read carefully the explanation at talkpage. As well, reverting images and pages without discussion and in violation of WP policies is very counterproductive. Please don't do it again. --Hillock6520:03, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
It's good that you noticed the rationale on the picture page. Please read carefully the first line: The poster is used the for the critical commentary on the ultra-radical political movement it represents. There is no critical commentary in the article on political movement it represents. None at all, it is not even mentioned. The Svoboda party has nothing to do with Russians in Ukraine. I do not wish a confrontation — as a sign of good faith, I suggest you remove it yourself, otherwise I will have to report this to the admins. Please take this advise as a peace offering, not a confrontation. --Hillock6520:29, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Take my advise, concentrate more on the article's content overall than on making sure it is "POVed right", so to speak. Eager and careless edits or reverts which result in duplication, passages pasted into the wrong sections, etc. is an indication of the lack of seriousness of the editor. Please take more time to review your edits and give a high priority to the article's being generally comprehensive, rather than making sure not a single right POV passage or quote is ommitted. --Irpen10:20, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
MVEi, would you calm down the inflammatory rhetoric? Also, in talk page discussions concentrate on articles and don't debate political views. 1954 transfer or Crimea, whatever you think of it, is not the argument to invoke unless its coverage is being discussed. Please reread my advises above and moderate your edits from now on. --Irpen19:04, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Please self-revert. Be reasonable. Those are certainly radical. Even Vitrenko is radical, and she is not even talked about there. Soft? Come on! I am not sure this section fits the article in its current state, true enough, and it seems a WP:POINT. But the material needs to be rewritten and moderated, not removed or retitled in a weaselised way. Try writing something instead of POVing the terminology and revert warring. --Irpen19:22, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Our conversation regarding Dvar has occasioned me to look to your contribution history, and I have deleted several band articles under WP:CSD#A7. Please be sure in the future that all articles you write contain an assertion of notability per WP:BAND, or they may be deleted. Sandstein21:12, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Be aware, also, that the standard for verifiability in the English-language Misplaced Pages is information from third-party sources (not the bands, their labels, etc.), in English. Sadly, we have no way of checking sources in other languages; and information from interested parties is not sufficient. --Orange Mike14:31, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
I already added to each of these articles a link with the history of the band which comes from websites specialised on music and who are independent and have no personal interests. M.V.E.i.14:36, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
National Bolshevik Party of Israel
A tag has been placed on National Bolshevik Party of Israel, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done because the article appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion debate, such as articles for deletion. If you can indicate how National Bolshevik Party of Israel is different from the previously posted material, or if you can indicate why this article should not be deleted, I advise you to place the template {{hangon}} underneath the other template on the article, and also put a note on Talk:National Bolshevik Party of Israel saying why this article should stay. An admin should check for such edits before deleting the article. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Please read our criteria for speedy deletion, particularly item 4 under General criteria. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. We welcome your help in trying to improve Misplaced Pages, and we request you to follow these instructions. Amir E. Aharoni07:44, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Image copyright problem with Image:VandalismRuCentLvov.jpg
Image Copyright problem
Thank you for uploading Image:VandalismRuCentLvov.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Misplaced Pages takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.
It is usually easy to move an article - just press the Move button (next to the Edit button). It would rename the article and put a redirect on its name. Just be careful, moving wars are very disruptive, so if the move maybe controversial ask the opinion of other people working on the same article. Obviously it does not needed if you were the sole author. If you want to rename an article use the Move button rather than cut-n-paste. This way we attribute all those people who contribute to the article.
To make an article a redirect you just put a magic text #Redirect ] instead of its text (or press the #R button in your Edit toolbox).
Only admins can delete an article. Ordinary editors could only indicate that they want an article deleted. There are 3 types of deletions WP:CSD - speedy deletion for a small subset of uncontroversial deletions, WP:PROD for the other unconraversial deletion and WP:AFD (and other XfDs) for all other deletions. Just paste the appropriate template (and file xFD if applicable) and some admin will handle the rest Alex Bakharev08:35, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, but what for example if the articles name is A, and thats the one that fits it the most, but i also want that B to rederect to this article without changing it's name? M.V.E.i.08:39, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi, thanks but I've been here for a while, I just blank my discussion page all the time as you can see if you check its history. I contribute reguarly to Russia related articles, including that info about the Soviet Union in WWII and the intro to the Soviet Union involvement in World War II article , and almost all of the Eastern Front images there. I've recently overhauled the Russia article starting from about 3 months ago, what do you think of it?--Ilya116610:14, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
On the World War II page I uploaded and added a picture of dead Soviet prisoners of war and wrote in the caption "Moat with the bodies of Soviet prisoners of war who died of starvation and disease in detention camps. In all, an estimated 2.8-3.3 million Soviet POWs died in German captivity". It seems that Bleh999 is trying to put the number of Soviet POW dead at only 1.2 million using Krivosheev's source, when it is clearly known that around 3 million Soviet POWs died in German captivity, and there is overwhelming consensus as you can see from the amount of sources I provided. You can see in the page history - http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=World_War_II&action=history
Krivosheev is an amature. You are correct. The USSR had to much archives distroyed during the war and they couldn't get the correct number, while Germany had an exact number of those who arrived from the USSR. I wrote it there. M.V.E.i.15:19, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Dvar, an article you created, has been nominated for deletion. We appreciate your contributions. However, an editor does not feel that Dvar satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in the nomination space (see also "What Misplaced Pages is not" and the Misplaced Pages deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Dvar and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Dvar during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Jmlk1706:24, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
You should similarly edit the overview picture on the World War I page as you did to the one on the World War II page as it has no Russian picture/s, absurd considering that Russia sustained the most military and civilian deaths of all the Allies , and that consequently, Russia was forced to fight on three fronts and was isolated from its French and British war partners (read the large paragraph I added that explains among other things how Russia was far from defeated when the Russian Revolution of 1917 broke out).--Ilya116609:03, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I see that there's a chronic lack of pictures the Russian front from that time, although there's 3 pictures of Russian's in the war here - not sure if they can be uploaded to wikipedia though.--Ilya116614:23, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Bronze Soldier of Tallinn edits
I have just made some edits to the Bronze Soldier of Tallinn page to correct some spin incurred on the part of baltic editors. I suspect that they will try to revert my edits or try to add spin to them somehow, just asking if you could keep an eye out on that page.--Ilya116611:43, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading Image:EstheticE.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Misplaced Pages articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:
If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that fair use images which could be replaced by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted 7 days after this notification, per our Fair Use policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. – Quadell13:17, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Andropov
Hi, for a quick summary see WP:ANI report. Basically, if you see him: block and revert on sight. I am not a war with him or anyone else. I am just keeping an eye on him when I can. Renata18:37, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
P.S. You can answer on your talk page i would come and see.
I'm not an administrator so i cant block or unblock people. So let me understand this right, he wants attention so he on purpouse makes not-good edits? But it started somehow, what was exaclly on the Lithuenian Misplaced Pages? About what was he arguing, what was decided by the administrators? M.V.E.i.18:47, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
You see, theres no chance that a man will respect an eternal block, maybe thats why he behaves this way. Maybe he was wrongly treated or maybe he had not more fault in the fight then then the other side but only he got punished? I think it's importent to figure these out and if, if we will find out that he was mistreated we could start a dialogue with him and then reduce his block. M.V.E.i.13:44, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
I just know the feeling of being indifinetly blocked, esspecially when you belive you dont deserve it, you loose your temper really it's really a bad feeling. It happened to me to, till an honest administrator, Alex Bakharev, helped me there and reduced my block. So thats why i want to figure thess out. If he belives it wad not fair what was done to him there we could understand him and open a dialogue and maybe even reduce his block. Thats why i asked you over what and with who he was fighting there and how did the administrators behave. M.V.E.i.20:51, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Ethnicity problems
Dear M.V.E.i., may I ask you please to stop your campaign of promoting nationalistic rumors in WP? I do not care about ethnic origin of certain people. But your insertions of unreliable Russian sources and distortion of even these sources negatively affect WP articles. If you continue, I will have to ask an advice from WP administrators.Biophys17:07, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
You dont care but others care. If you dont care it doesnt mean you can delete information. The sites are good. Writing the ethnicity of somebody isn't "nationalism". M.V.E.i.17:28, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for uploading Image:Littletragedies.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.
Better source request for Image:Littletragedies.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Littletragedies.jpg. You provided a source, but it is difficult for other users to examine the copyright status of the image because the source is incomplete. Please consider clarifying the exact source so that the copyright status may be checked more easily. It is best to specify the exact web page where you found the image, rather than only giving the source domain or the URL of the image file itself. Please update the image description with a URL that will be more helpful to other users in determining the copyright status.
If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source in a complete manner. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page or me at my talkpage. Thank you. Videmus Omnia16:55, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Please don't blank the templates until the issue is resolved - see my talk page for a response to your question. Thanks! Videmus Omnia17:00, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
I put the article in your userspace at - let me know when you've improved it and want to consider moving it into the main encyclopedia so I can take a look at it first. - Philippe | Talk18:11, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
WWII the new image
On the World War II page the new image you made with the new montage of pictures where the US picture doesn't overshadow everything else is no longer there for some reason. I would really like to see it back.
Hi, there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Misplaced Pages pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot19:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
If you "got it" then why are you still doing it? You're still just saying "Keep" to every AfD on the list without explaining yourself. Closing admins ignore such baseless votes. wikipediatrix15:12, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I like the article, i dont think it should be removed, so i write "keep". I just vote an thats it i dont think i need to explain myself, everyone will vote by if they like it or not and thats it. Imagine on elections day when you go to vote someone will say you: "Stop! You're vote wouldn't be counted unless you explain yourself". M.V.E.i.15:16, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
That's just not how it works here. Like I said, the closing admin will ignore votes that just say "Keep" or "Delete" without providing a basis. wikipediatrix15:19, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
WP:ILIKEIT - For example, I'd love to see info about unnotable bios on Misplaced Pages, but since it's not really allowed on Misplaced Pages, those should be deleted. This applies for Afd discussions aswell - Just saying "Keep" on an article without an explanation because you like it won't do a thing. ~Iceshark716:45, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
(outdent) Hi. I noticed your edits to AfDs too. AfD is not a vote, it's a discussion or a debate. You may find this helpful. Kind regards. --Malcolmxl521:47, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, but when i said i like it i ment the way the article is written, not the theme. Offcourse statments like "an exellent band from ______" dont fit to articles, objectivity and references are importent. M.V.E.i.18:29, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Misplaced Pages pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. Ten Pound Hammer • 19:03, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Dear M.V.E.i., I'm sorry for not informing you of the ANI thread that I created. It was my mistake and I apologize. I will be careful to inform users in the future about such threads. All the best, Eliz8116:33, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I could see you used references from a blog, for example, that's not good. Having said that, I'd be happy to discuss this with an administrator who can read Russian. You can feel free to contact them. Regards, PeaceNT14:27, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Don't worry, it's not a problem. :) An administrator would be able to see the deleted version of the page and check the sources for you. You just need to contact them and we'll listen to their input. PeaceNT14:55, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
I really don't see how any of the images can be changed/removed. I am sure that the American editors would like to see more American images including Pearl Harbour, but the fact is that they did a tiny fraction of the fighting, I don't see how they deserve the same amount of images as the Eastern Front. Not to mention it would have to remove the other important images already there. The Auschwitz image has to stay, representing the Holocaust (11 times more people died in the Holocaust than the entire losses of Britain/US combined). The image of Nazi's has to stay to represent that the world was fighting against Germany/Nazism. Really I don't see how you can replace any images.--Miyokan08:56, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree with you. Feel free to enter the argument. The thing is if we dont have adiscussion we might come to a situation that we will just revert each other. But must i say, Oberiko (the guy that leads the argument) is a very intelegent and he really tries to make shure it will be balanced. You can freely talk to him and he will have with you a fair discussion. M.V.E.i.09:06, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
About the links, they are needed, even the Russian once. I was told by several administrators that if i have a Russian link that could help i should give it, because it might have importent information. Maximum a Russian speaking administrator will check it. And the more i give the better it shows that it's a well known band. I already had articles deleted for having "only 1-2 links". Except giving an offical link we must give the information from a "third party", and the more the better.
I have to respectfully disagree. First of all, have a read of the policies governing the use of external links on Misplaced Pages:
Although external links on content pages provide useful information, Wikimedia projects are not search engines or link repositories. They should be kept to a useful minimum, and provide relevant and non-trivial information that isn't present in the page.
Links should be kept to a minimum. A lack of external links, or a small number of external links is not a reason to add external links.
... it is not Misplaced Pages's purpose to include a comprehensive list of external links related to each topic. No page should be linked from a Misplaced Pages article unless its inclusion is justified.
Each link should be considered on its merits, using the following guidelines. As the number of external links in an article grows longer, assessment should become stricter.
Links to English language content are strongly preferred in the English-language Misplaced Pages. It may be appropriate to have a link to a non-English-language site, such as when an official site is unavailable in English; or when the link is to the subject's text in its original language; or when the site contains visual aids such as maps, diagrams, or tables.
I believe this covers the reason for removing all the links that I have removed, as well as answers all your questions in that regard. On a side note, if you're getting your articles deleted because they have too few external links, then you should really go through the complaints procedure, and I would certainly help you in that.
If you believe that some or all of the links should stay, then the burden is on you to justify their relevancy to the article, and conformance to the Misplaced Pages guideline on external links, on a one-to-one basis. -- int19h09:36, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
September 2007
Your contributions history shows that you have been aggressively cross-posting, in order to influence Articles for Deletion. Although the Arbitration Committee has ruled that "The occasional light use of cross-posting to talk pages is part of Misplaced Pages's common practice.", such cross-posting should adhere to specific guidelines. In the past, aggressively worded cross-posting has contributed towards an Arbitration Committee ruling of disruptive behavior that has resulted in blocks being issued. It is best not to game the system, and instead respect Misplaced Pages's principle of consensus-building, by ceasing to further crosspost, and instead allowing the process to reflect the opinions of editors that were already actively involved in the matter at hand. Jmlk1710:37, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Bi-2, an article you created, has been nominated for deletion. We appreciate your contributions. However, an editor does not feel that Bi-2 satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in the nomination space (see also "What Misplaced Pages is not" and the Misplaced Pages deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Bi-2 (2nd nomination) and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Bi-2 during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Jmlk1711:01, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, I tried, but the tally for deletion of this article isn't looking too much in our favor. I'd suggest saving the content in your sandbox if you're still interested in working on it for the future. --Drenched21:40, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Canvassing
I've noticed that regarding the image for WWII you've been campaigning, a form of disruptive canvassing. Please try to maintain neutrality while informing of a discussion and post where multiple people of varied opinions can be notified. Oberiko03:23, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Attacks
I am personally getting a little tired of your personal attacks of me around here. If you have an issue with me, talk to me. Don't go posting around the site attacking me, please. Jmlk1721:18, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
You know after acting bossy and snobery about Dvar, at least thats how i saw that (all i asked is to return and nominate for deletion and let other Wikipedians decide), i dont think good of you. BUT, that stayes as by belief alone, and has nothing to do with what i said to you there. I said it numerous times to others i dont even know who i saw nominating good articles for deletion, or supporting that. So as you can see, it's nothing personal. It's just that i hate it that anyone without a real history on Misplaced Pages makes nice promises and gets chosen to be administrator. I belive that an administrator should be someone with a long history of articles creation, someone who understands the process from the inside. In that case, he will be more expirienced and could judge better on them. Those who usually delete many and nominate many for deletion are usually people without a real editing history (i go thru their Contribution section), those who dont understand what Working on Misplaced Pages means. For example (And i'm not talking about Dvar), a good article but without references. I always say to people there instead of supporting deletion, try to find them yourself don't be lazy help it. So it wasn't me against you pesonaly. Infact, i didn't notice when i first answered you that you are the same one. M.V.E.i.21:34, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Then again... Look in real life i'm really good to people. Forget about Dvar, maybe your right. And i dont really hate you. Just understand my nerves here. Dvar are not notable, when i think of it your right. BUT, i created more then 10 articles on some of the most important Russian rock bands. Bi-2, Piknik and Voskreseniye are legends in Russian music. And what? Nothing. I work alone, i need help but i dont get it and they stay low level. When i think of it now i really took it out on you without noticing (i never do that in real life), and i'm sorry because when i think of it you are right on Dvar. Just understand, i work alone. I would create a Russian rock WikiProject, but i dont know how. I would gather a team, but i dont know who. And it's a bad feeling. Anyway, sorry. Not your fault. M.V.E.i.21:58, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
You really want to retry on the Dvar article? I'd put it back up for a vote, but I'd have to say one thing. You can ask people to come check out an Afd page, but you're not supposed to ask them to cast an opinion in support or delete, but only just ask them to participate. Jmlk1722:12, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
No worries. I feel as if you and I got off on the wrong foot entirely. I'm going to undelete it, and toss it up for an Afd. Jmlk1722:15, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Dvar, an article you created, has been nominated for deletion. We appreciate your contributions. However, an editor does not feel that Dvar satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in the nomination space (see also "What Misplaced Pages is not" and the Misplaced Pages deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Dvar (2nd nomination) and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Dvar during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Jmlk1722:18, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
WWII template
Could you replace the Stalingrad image of the bombed out buildings from the WWII template montage you made with this better image --Miyokan08:35, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Did you Grandfather measure them or was this his POV? If he has the data maybe we can add it. Is he a reliable source? I scrapped a users junk before on Chinese height because it was OR and POV pushing and so followed him to other articles cause I knew what he was doing. Drenched was familiar with him and wanted him gone too. Do you think it is reasonable to say on an article about Human Height that Northern Chinese are "the superior race" cause they are the smartest and have the tallest potential and would be the tallest if they didn't avoid the sun, didn't eat soy or rice, didn't wear skin whiteners etc which affect verbal IQ not spatial IQ? The article is about height, not embarrassing pseudoscience.I also should add I spend 4 months of each year in Taiwan and I am aware that the height of people here in Australia is significantly taller than that in Taipei, both young and old. There are very tall people in all countries, but how evenly arethey distributed? If I want to know the truth I rely on measured data not POV's even though this really pisses the opinionated pushy people off.Gooogen04:47, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
The engineering of the soviet armed forces has a proud history as their wartime performances can attest. The Chinese people have contributed much to the world, the invention of gun powder, silk and a majority of the world's prostitutes (Russia is also a strong competitor). Height is a relative term, but on the topic of relatives I can only imagine your grandfather was a midget as the average height of the Chinese during world war 2 was low enough to make mugsy bogues look like a pro basketball player without his jersey on.Gooogen09:57, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Protection
I can't revert to any particular version. From the protection policy: "Protection during an edit war is not an endorsement of the current version. Editors should not ask for a specific version of a page to be protected or, if it has already been protected, reverted to a different version. Instead, editors should attempt to resolve the dispute on the related talk page." Oberiko11:31, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
The Ignore all rules (IAR) policy isn't something to be taken lightly; usually it's reserved for scenarios where a rule is interrupting an obvious, common-sense situation, is invalidated due to circumstances, or is outdated. I would need pretty strong reasons (such as consensus being reached on the page) to invoke the ignore-all-rules rule. Were the IAR to always be used, we'd basically have to junk our entire existing policy structure. Oberiko15:59, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
It's cool, but a reminder...
There is peace, and it's cool; Don't worry, I haven't taken anything you said personal. That does not however mean I approve of your methods - I still think your language, conduct and methods have been questionable; I don't necessarily accuse you of it, but I want to state firmly that Misplaced Pages is not a place for political or nationalistic agendas. In the future, to avoid such conflicts, I suggest you read and comply to these Misplaced Pages guidelines:
Misplaced Pages:Assume good faith - that is, don't automatically assume that other Wikipedians are POV, just because they disagree with you.
Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks - that is, don't accuse others of vandalism, when there is a clear dispute about Misplaced Pages contents. Don't call other persons "snobs", don't say that others' opinions are irrelevant - your views are not more valuable than others. You will only make enemies, if you continue doing this.
Misplaced Pages:Canvassing - don't campaign among a particular community, in this case, Russians, in order to influence people to support your views. Misplaced Pages guidelines state that you may inform people about an issue, but shouldn't urge them to support your view in particular. This is disruptive. The honest thing would be to inform as a many people as possible, in a neutral way, by posting information about the issue on regular article talk pages, not only on Russian users' talk pages.
The canvassing thing, i didnt know the law then. But the other things? I dont see anything nationalistic in trying to get an NPOV. I still think that the image you made was Western ethnocentrism (which could be easily called political agenda). We didnt ask to make the big image Soviet (though we had the right for that, 75% of the Axis forces were sent to the eastern front to fight the Soviets and still we won), we wanted to make it nutral. I got mad because i didnt understand how could you oppose to that if i kept everything you had in your image and even write in the image details that most is based on what you did. Nevertheless, now the image is nutral and that's why i decided to support it and re-bring up this suggestion previously offered but ignored by another user. Please notice that my party complitely supported it, which proves that we wanted NPOV. If you'll check the template history you'll see that after we reached a compromise another user who didn't participate in the argument reverted it to mine image again, and Miyokan reverted it back to the map explaining that these was the compromise reached (and if you remember, me and Miyokan were the most active supporters of mine new suggestion). M.V.E.i.21:21, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
That doesn't fit so much. What we need is an image which includes trenches, we could put that above instead of the current upper-image. That way we'll keep the idea and have a Russian image. The problem is i cant find one anywhere. M.V.E.i.13:59, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Navigation boxes
I noticed you raised the russian navbox over UK, German and Estonian navbox in related pages. Was there any reason for that edit? Suva14:09, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes i wanted to see if raising templates might somehow add or revome certain categories down-there (i saw it has no connection). If you'll ask i'll revert all those games back there (i tryed it in a few more countries). If you ask yourself why are they all conceted to the Russian foreign relations then it's because those articles where the fastest to get to, they were all in the template of the Russian-English relations, and article i addited at the moment. M.V.E.i.14:14, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Mathematically speaking, the set of automatic categories applicable to a Misplaced Pages article does not depend on the order of boxes on it. However, the order of categories may depend, which is, for example, why you should always put the stub markers below the category listing.
Your neologism of fool-scale discussion in is a great one. Thanks for coining it; it describes very well a number of "discussions" currently going on in Misplaced Pages. Digwuren14:21, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Hhh thank you, feel free to use the phrase wherever you like ("fool scale discussion", man that sounds like a name of a war!). M.V.E.i.14:23, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
A discussion is held in the Russia article talk page . A user (Mangalaiii) insists on tagging the article NPOV because he believes 'Putin's oppressive government and its threat to what could be a Russian Democracy' should be mentioned. It is clear what he thinks of Putin. I believe the Russia article currently states only fact, and it is an article on Russia, not Putin, any criticism about Putin belongs on the Vladimir Putin article and Human rights in Russia. Also, western world leaders (Bush, Merkel, etc) have good relations with Putin. Feel free to state your personal opinion.--Miyokan14:15, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, but are you talking of some other Merkel? Angela Merkel is one of the strongest critics of Putin, see , , , . As for Bush, then their "relationship" has had its ups and downs, see , .
I don't understand, do you propose that this current template be changed? Which people would you like to replace and with whom. I like the current template although it could use about 2 women. Replace one of the writers, Tolstoy or Dostoyevsky.--Miyokan14:08, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
First, Dostoyevski and Tolstoy are irriplaceble.
Now to our theme. I propose to make it bigger, turn it from a 8 people to a 12 people image. I propose to add Tziklovski and Koralev (fathers of the world and Soviet space program), Stanislavski (the greatyest theater director ever), and Pushkin. Woman? I propose to change Yesenin to Akhmatova. M.V.E.i.14:18, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I think 12 images is excessive. In any case Sergei Yesenin should be kept. Perhaps a picture of a sportsperson, eg Lev Yashin? That picture of Akhmatova is horrible and she is not well known, I didn't even know who she was. Put a picture of a model or sportsperson for a woman (eg Maria Sharapova is well known all over the world). But like I said, 12 images is excessive, I don't think any ethnicity template has more than 8 pictures. --Miyokan15:09, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I think you should only use people with historic importance. I hate when they put some pop stars or current sportsmen in these collages, it ruins the image. Suva17:13, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Agree! I mean, look what they've done to English people? It's fake, and it's sad because English people have who to put in, worthy people, and they dont use that. It should look classic, not a top ten list from a glamour jornal. M.V.E.i.17:18, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Tchaikovsky image in Russians template
Could you replace the Tchaikovsky image in the Russians template with this better image of him , we don't have to show all the Russians as old men. Also, I strongly object to the removal of Sergei Yesenin, could you put him back into the template, he looks very Russian, which is what the template should represent, what Russians look like, preferably instead of Tsiolkovsky. Yesenin is not less well known than some of the others there.--Miyokan01:35, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Yesenin
I doubt that Stanislavski, Tsiolkovsky, Tsvetaeva, or Korolyev are more well known around the world than Yesenin. Considering that the 5 images you added were all your choice, could you please reinsert the Yesenin image in place of one of those (Tsiolkovsky, Korolyev, Stanislavski are all half-Russian) and I will be happy with the template.--Miyokan09:42, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
New Constantin Stanislavski image
I have just uploaded a new Constantin Stanislavski image here , I think it's better than the current one in the template as he's younger, do you mind adding it to the template?--Miyokan10:00, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Dna-Dennis unilaterally deleted the phrase - "It was here that the war was won or lost, for if the Red Army had not succeeded against all the odds in halting the Germans in 1941 and then inflicting the first major defeats at Stalingrad and Kursk in 1943, it is difficult to see how the western democracies, Britain and the US, could have expelled Germany from its new empire."
This statement was sourced by a recognised WWII historian, Richard Overy. Please feel free to join the discussion here --Miyokan02:40, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Just informing you that Dna-Dennis has chosen to delete and change captions from many images from the WWII page, mostly from the Soviet-German war section.--Miyokan01:36, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Italian women
I'm not discrediting Strozzi or anyone else on the list. She seems like she was a great person, but I don't think many people (including me) would recognize her. Also, let's not move to hastily here... I think a more recent woman (or man) is a great choice. There has to be someone in addition to Fallaci to consider. Eliminating pop stars like Pausini, Irene Grandi, etc. or actresses like Bellucci, Cucinotta, or even Sophia Loren for that matter- who else fits the internationally renowned bill? This is jsut food for thought... I'm happy with anyone on the list so far:) Mariokempes22:49, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes, thanks for improving it. It is looking better, when I created it I was suprised that there wasnt already an article there given how many relations articles there are. --Astrokey4409:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
Take it easy, please
MVEi, I know you mean well and feel strongly about issues but please slow down. Take a cup of tea and accept Misplaced Pages disagreements with some humor. Take it easier. Much easier. Pretty please with sugar on top. --Irpen00:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Addendum: I am amazed to see that you resumed sterile revert warring at Kuban Cossacks article. There is absolutely no excuse to revert war. I will leave a note to the same degree to Faustian too. He is an excellent editor and I am surprised to see him act like this. But your history of blocks should have taught you that revert warring will never get you the results you want and will et you blocked. Cut it now! --Irpen02:31, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Half barnstar
The Half Barnstar
For coining the word "fool-scale discussion" which User:Digwuren swiftly put into humorous template to bring back the smile into editors faces and cool down pointless arguments. SuvaЧего?19:44, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
You stated on the image page "The photo is a not-copyrighted photo taken from the website of the band. I have send an EMail to the website, from where i was told it's a public domain. The name of the fan who took this photo is Ginadiy (Lastname not known".
If you want it to read "controversial to this day" you should get a source that isn't from 15 years ago. Much has changed in 15 years. Ostap17:58, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
It's a fact. All the russian politicians now it was idiotic, the discussion is not about that. The discussion is about should Russia or nor demand it back. Find me one significant politicians that supports this move. M.V.E.i.18:17, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't see your point. Please, lets not go into politics. I am talking about the syntax of the article, not the context. The citation is from 15 years ago, yet it claims to be "to this day". The citation given does not match the claim, thats all. Ostap21:31, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Got your point. Sorry. Well in that case we can keep the citation but change the text by removing "to this day...". M.V.E.i.21:35, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry for mis-understanding your intentions there. It's just that after a long-lasting fight with Hillock i kind of got crazy in that place, so sorry. P.S. You might be interested in taking part in what i offered to Bandurist here. M.V.E.i.21:44, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Yet you ignored all my questions and reasons there. People like you definitely should not be given administratorship. M.V.E.i.15:13, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
(Crossposting from my talk page to make sure you see it)
Archived talk pages are just that - archived - hence the "Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page." at the top. As you had already been warned about modifying archived talk pages, and still carried on doing so, it is either vandalism or disrupting Misplaced Pages to make a point, either of which warrant a warning - and if you carry on doing it, a block. — iridescent(talk to me!)16:21, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Get a life and do something useful. So it's archived even if it's conclusion is a lie?? Saying there's no concensus when 7 said keep and only 2 said delete? Thats idiotic beurocracy. M.V.E.i.19:18, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Please see Misplaced Pages's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Leuko21:41, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Redirects
Redirects such as Good music and Best music are subject to speedy deletion. Please do not create invalid redirects, redirects that present a non-neutral point of view, or misleading redirects. Thank you! — Moeε20:02, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I took all the information on that from the Russian Misplaced Pages, so it was kind-off hard to translate. M.V.E.i.15:38, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Ah; anyways, I needed more Belarusian-content editors, so you are a ray of light for me. I'll help you with Lukashenko's article. User:Zscout37015:41, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Thank youuu :-) As you can see i really need help their, esspecialy with the references. In the Critisism section as you can see i created a paragraph of what supporters of Lukashenko think, the problem is i know only how to read and speak Russian (a problem many of those who immigrated to Istael at a young age have), and dont know Belarusian at all. That causes the problem i cant use the Russian and Belarusian google to find the references i need, and in the English google i see only anti-Lukashenko propoganda. M.V.E.i.15:50, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
But i'm a big fan of Belarus. I myself was born to a Russian father and a Jewish mother in Ukraine, but i think Belarus is one of the most beautiful countries in the world. Plus i see in Belarusians complete brothers (since once Russians, Belarusians and Ukrainians were one nation). I'm also a fan of Lukashenko. When i see what the oligarchs have done to Russia and Ukraine in the nane of "Democracy", and how Belarus was saved, i see what a great leader he is. Plus he is the only democrat in the world today. How exacly Yeltsyn and yushenko are democrats if they never were chosen by a majority? If democracy is the people choosing whats best for them, and the chosen government is doing whats best for the people, Belarus is the only democracy in Europe. But if democracy is a goverment economicaly good for the USA, i prefer to be a communist. M.V.E.i.15:59, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
I do agree with you that Belarus is very beautiful country (I've been there several times), I totally disagree about Lukashenko and "what the oligarchs have done to Russia and Ukraine" - I think you haven't been to Belarus, at least not lately. There the economy is even more in the hands of "oligarchs" then in Russia, albeit not in that scale, due to the smallness of Belarus. When driving near Minsk, you can see.. there is no other word - wast castles of the rich. But the common people don't live that well, quite the opposite, especially away from the cities, where there is greater poverty then I've seen anywhere in ex-Soviet Union (admittedly, I haven't been to Central Asia). Lukashenko has kept the economy stable, but that means it is permanently bad. We actually are starting to have in Baltics not only Belorussians, who have left their country for political reasons, but also those who have escaped starvation. Shops on the countryside have nothing to sell, not even bread, just antique boots. In the cities it is better, but nothing like in Baltic States, not even like in Ukraine.
And when it comes to Lukashenko as the "only democrat" - you do know, that he imprisoned his opponents? He is behaving like a mini-Stalin, whom he does not like those... disappear. There is a cult of Lukashenko in Belarus and you either follow it or become pariah. -- Sander Säde16:26, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
First, the fact that he arrested leaders of the opposition. well, then what should be done to those who try to lead a minority to take the power? By doing that he protected democracy. And the "election fraud", just like in Ukraine, was a lie. I asked many people, and out of about 30 i asked only one haven't supported Lukashenko. Second, the rich houses you have seen in Minsk are of those who built them in the begining of the 90's, before he became leader. Actually, those who live far from the city live very good. Agrarian economy recives major help fron the government. I've been there a month ago. Shops are full of things, not only that, self-production things. The only ones who escaped Belarus are those who stole money before Lukashenko came to power. About repression of opposition, in music stores there are big posters of N.R.M. (and this band opposes to the government). M.V.E.i.16:39, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Some of those houses were still being built. And care to tell what is wrong with taking power through democratic free elections - because that was what opposition wanted, free elections. And it is not possible to deny that Belarus is almost a decade behind its neighbors - and that is thanks to Lukashenko. -- Sander Säde18:20, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
The elections were fairly held. They didn't want democratic elections, they wanted to do a revolution. Belarus is above all it's neighbours in the level of life. M.V.E.i.18:36, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Huh?. Estonia: 55; Latvia: 64; Lithuania: 66; Ukraine: 108; Poland: 72; Russia: 82 - and Belarus is 106 for GDP per capita. Only Ukraine is comparable with Belarus, others are far ahead. -- Sander Säde18:49, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Maybe the GDP is lower, BUT the prices are also lower :-) So that balances it in a way better for the people. M.V.E.i.18:54, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Nevertheless, the unemployment is most low. Life expectancy is largly influenced by Chernobil disaster, which happened near Belarus. (EC) No 765/2006 by the European Union also hurt Belarus. And heres something i copied for you from the Belarus article:
According to the Save the Children international organization report (comparing 167 countries), Belarus has the highest rating for the quality of life for women and children among all countries in the former Soviet Union. Belarus ranked sixteenth for mothers' quality of life, fourteenth for a womans' quality of life and twentieth for the quality of life for children. The closest former Soviet republics are Estonia (18th for Women's rank), Ukraine (21/31/26) and Russia (27/34/64). M.V.E.i.19:22, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
As someone studying Geography, let me tel you, dont belive it. They have the most rediculous demands. They are very "diggen-under". The have USA, a country that doesnt create anything more developed then China, imean, thats absurd. How do they do it? They consider any, sory for the expression, flying-shit as an industrial act. A cab driver brought someone from street to street? It's considered he created something. MacDonallds sold a meal? Created something. Dont belive this thing. M.V.E.i.19:42, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
This is more political then serious. Russia has it's all industry collapsing, but they say it's going upm why? Lawyers, resturants and all that are suddenly considered "industry". I live in Israel, and belive me, unfortinately, my country creates nothing. We dont have an industry. Yogurts is noct considered. Yet Israel is in a high place. As someone studying Geography i never looked thru that table due to they fact i know its used only by politicians, academics dont use it, but now that i finaly saw it, it's more absurd then i thought. M.V.E.i.19:54, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Nature of Belarus
BTW, an idea. How about expanding and creating articles related to the nature of Belarus? At the moment, we only have List of Biosphere Reserves in Belarus, Białowieża Forest and Berezina River - and out of those only Białowieża Forest is a semi-decent article. Berezinsky Biosphere Reserve definitely deserves its own article - I spent few weeks there couple of years ago, beautiful place, but alas, lack of funding has destroyed most of scientific work that was done there before. should be a reasonable source to get the article started. -- Sander Säde18:29, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
The idea is exelent, the problem is i dont have knowledge about it in a writing level. You need to turn to user Zscout370. He is one of the only users today creating major-scale Belarus articles here (he's a one-man Belarus WikiProject). M.V.E.i.18:36, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, I don't know him, perhaps you can tell him about that? I'll help as much as I can, but I want to do articles about all National Parks in Estonia first - and get them into such shape that I could apply to good article status without fear. And that means I have to finish one article (Matsalu), create two and do a total rewrite of two articles. -- Sander Säde18:54, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
The last edit i made was actually returning part of what Bakerville said, as a sign of good faith and an attemp to get a compromise. M.V.E.i.14:00, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Here are your four edits today which each involve reverting the removal of your paragraph by User:Bakersville, and there was more yesterday. You are of course welcome to appeal the block to another admin, but this may not be a good idea. I have also taken your block log and this talk page into consideration, and you should probably consider yourself lucky at 24hrs, IMO. Please take the time to step away from the computer and when you return before you start editing you should reflect on the best way to achieve consensus on this article which does not involve edit-warring. Thanks. -- zzuuzz14:25, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Follow-up from WP:COIN post. I semi-protected the article for one week to help cool things down. Biography articles are best written chronologically. The sourced sentences of the criticism section should be inserted into the remainder of the article where they would fit chronologically. You may want to post your request at WP:BLPN and the 3RR issue should be reported at WP:AN3RR. -- Jreferee t/c19:56, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
I am repairing the article anyways and fixing the citations. I am also fixing up the orders section, mostly for spelling. But yes, I agree with some of the statements above. I really hate to use blogs at all for Lukashenko's article. I do not mind the bit of using Russian sources, but we should try to use English-language sources whenever we can. Also, if you are wondering about spelling, the article is using American-English spelling. User:Zscout37023:40, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Please do not call other editors "idiots", as you did in this edit summary. Please remain civil, even if someone does something you disagree with. Parsecboy17:34, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
What happened was a couple of editors who were not involved in the discussion we had came and removed the map we had agreed upon, because it has problems (for example, it colors Vichy France as part of the Axis, but this is not the case). I appreciate that you returned it to the animated map, but again, it could've been done without the "get a life" at the end. Parsecboy17:53, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
It's not that clear cut in regards to Vichy. They never signed the Anti-comintern treaty, and the French soldiers on the Eastern Front were volunteers, not the French Regular Army. They were co-belligerents, yes, but not allies; just like Finland. I do know that Oberiko is pretty busy right now reworking the WWII article, so I don't think he'll have time to fix the map. There was a non-animated map he proposed earlier in the template talk page when the issue with the animated one having errors came up. You may want to take a look at it. Parsecboy18:18, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that's the one Oberiko suggested. You're right, it's not as nice as the animated one, but it could be a good stop-gap until Oberiko has the time to fix the animated one. Parsecboy18:29, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I think that's the best option we have (unless someone can find a better map), until someone can fix the animated map. I myself don't know how to do it, nor do I think I have the right program to modify each frame. Parsecboy19:04, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
October 2007
This is the last warning you will receive for your disruptive comments. If you continue to make personal attacks on other people, you will be blocked for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. — iridescent(talk to me!)17:41, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
If you want to do something useful before sending warnings learn the case. a really small minority tried to go against a concensus reached by a majority by giving lame excuses. M.V.E.i.17:44, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
"The case" has everything to do with it. I, and others had a long, hard and tyring brutal-discussion till we reached a concensus a huge majority supported. No way that some minority will kill what we worked for by lame excuses. M.V.E.i.17:49, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
As majority had not bothered to check if their consensus of animated map had mistakes or not, then that consensus became irrelevant and I removed the animated map. Later infobox image has changed several times since then.--Staberinde18:49, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Yeah so you returned the collage that coused the whole conflict. Very smart. Couldn't you see Oberiko suggested another image for that case?? You could at least talk to Oberiko on that. M.V.E.i.18:56, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
The D-Day is not as notable as Stalingrad or Kursk. All those states can enter the section After the declaration by the United Nations. M.V.E.i.16:57, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
And you just carelessly deleted them all, you know, that thing would qualify as vandalism. I am quite sure that D-day was there not because of being extremely importnant, but it was just well known event, suitable for dividing long period from Declaration by United Nations to August Storm into two parts. Do you have any good alternatives?--Staberinde17:06, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
I already returned them to the After the declaration by the United Nations. They really fir here more. P.S. Please check what i wrote to you on the talk page of the WW2 Template page. M.V.E.i.17:09, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Unblock request denied
Per AN/I I am denying your request for unblock. I foresee no circumstances under which I would consider changing my opinion. Rklawton12:42, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Unprotect denied
Per previous abuse on this page following the user's block, I am denying his e-mailed request for unprotecting this page. Page protection will expire in due time, and the editor may then resume using this page. However, if the editor abuses this privilege even once, then I will protect this page for the duration of the user's block. Rklawton19:56, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Page protected
User has returned and restored racist rants to talk page. The page is now protected for the duration of the user's block. Rklawton12:36, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
E-mails
You may stop sending me e-mails now. If you wish to take this matter up with another administrator, you may. However, repeatedly sending me the same e-mail constitutes harassment, and I won't hesitate to change your block to "indefinite" and propose a community ban if you persist. Rklawton15:24, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Block
As a result of this sockpuppetry case, I have reset your block counter to one year from today's date for block evasion. GB06:47, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
This is your last warning. The next time you upload an inappropriate image, such as Image:NotGivinUp.JPG, you will be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. This also applies to Image:Anti-Vandalism.JPG and Image:Honour.JPG. You re-uploaded these presumably copyrighted images after being warned about it, and you mislabeled them as {{cc-by-2.5}}. Sandstein 18:17, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
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Please see Misplaced Pages's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks will lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Leuko 21:41, 30 September 2007 (UTC)