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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 155.91.19.73 (talk) at 22:56, 15 September 2005 (citations, anyone?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Merging

I think Racism in the Southern United States should be merged with this article. Toothpaste 4 July 2005 02:21 (UTC)

• I agree, but there isn't very much worthwile there. I say merge whatever's really relevant and accurate (most of it is not really), and make Racism in the Southern United States a redirect.--Pharos 4 July 2005 02:28 (UTC)
  • Agreed, but I think that the article should also be divided into, Western U.S., Northern U.S. and Southern U.S. because the forms on how Racism were conducted were different and each more or less had its own history. Falphin 4 July 2005 19:39 (UTC)

Racial discrimination nowadays

I think the article should contain examples and problems faced by minority groups in the United States and the United Kingdom nowadays, especially those African-American and Chinese American because these two ethnic groups form the majority of ethnic groups in these two countries. For example, the article should discuss racial discrimination in US and UK communities and the lower possibility for them to enter top universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard etc. Besides, can they merge themselves into white communities without being treated unfairly and unequally should be a highlighted issue in the article. I suggest dividing the ariticle "racism" into two seperate ones, one discussing racial discrimination in western history while another one concerning racial discrimation nowadays in Southeast Asian and Western countries like US, UK, Malysia and Indonesia etc. It is better to provide more information about racial discrimination against students who are studing abroad in UK, US and Australia, such as their status in high schools and colleges compares to that of White.

Um, this article is on racism in the United States, not the UK, not Australia, etc. We should stick to teh US here, and link to other country articles when appropriate. Elefuntboy 01:32, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Terminology

"thousands of African slaves served whites, alongside other whites"

The term whites seems rather colloquial, perhaps it could be replaced with something more suitable for a formal encyclopedia. Anser 5 July 2005 12:44 (UTC)

Agreed. I suggest that for identifying people who are socially marked as belonging to a specific race group the standard would be to use the race as an adjective, not an adjectative noun. Whites (and more problematically, Blacks) makes a person's racial marking essential to their personhood. Instead, let's use White person, Black mother, Asian construction worker, etc... when describing people with respect to their race and social roles.Billy P 5 July 2005 15:13 (UTC)

Institutional racism

"particularly in the case of non-native English speakers or those raised in homes that spoke broken or pidgin English. Several states are attempting to reduce these educational disadvantages by developing a more culturally aware curriculum. For example, the 2005 California 6th grade statewide examination contained the question Patio comes from the Spanish word meaning what?. Including questions such as these provide opportunities for non-native speakers of English to have greater educational access."

Are the leading efforts to curb institutional disadvantages really centered in k-12 education? I'm also not sure the example convincingly demonstrates those efforts. lots of issues | leave me a message 8 July 2005 03:36 (UTC)

• The example given isn't very good, but actually many people would argue that one of the main problems minority groups in the U.S. face is poorer access to good public education. It is still true that de facto white children and minority children tend to attend different schools, and the schools that white children attend are usually better.--Pharos 8 July 2005 03:56 (UTC)

• I consider the example to be good, but coming from the mouth (or should I say keyboard) of the writer, that statement may carry less weight. You might consider the use of all English related questions on the language section of a test to be racism. But there should be another example. Howabout1 July 8, 2005 04:01 (UTC)

• There are two somewhat distinct issues: the general quality of education and the cultural appropriateness of education. I think the former is probably more generally accepted, and is a little "clearer". On the cultural appropriateness side, we have debates over AAVE, bilingual education and history as "Dead White Males".--Pharos 8 July 2005 04:23 (UTC)

Isn't the program designed to address institutional racism most well known and intensely fought in the mainstream arena - affirmative action? Shouldn't that be the subject of discussion instead of educational trends? lots of issues | leave me a message 8 July 2005 05:02 (UTC)

• That should also be discussed of course, but not "instead of" what is seen as "institutional racism" in general public education. After all, that is bascially what affirmative action is meant to counter.--Pharos 8 July 2005 05:05 (UTC)

• THe educational trend section is quite weak and rather insufficient to address institutional racism as a whole. I edited the section, but left the example as I simply lacked one to replace it with, and wanted to hopefully maintain the original author's intent. Elefuntboy 8 July 2005 22:17 (UTC)

Race (U.S. Census)

The article should include information on why the USA government classifies its citizens by race.

It also looks quite common for any speaker/writer to say/write African American, Asian American, etc. Why?

Are those expressions of an underlying cultural racism? Or not? - Nabla 2005-07-08 19:32:56 (UTC)

I'd argue that the terms African-American, Asian-American, et al are the most inclusive terminologies that people outside of those cultural-ethnic groups can use; I don't think it is an underlying cultura racism so much as an understanding of different heritages. Elefuntboy 8 July 2005 22:19 (UTC)

It is not my intention to argue about it here. I'm simply pointing that as a reader I would expect those subjects to be included in this article. Nabla 21:00:15, 2005-07-09 (UTC)

I agree with Nabla. There should be some explanation.

Lapsed Pacifist 21:31, 9 July 2005 (UTC)

Just a note on these terms. I'm not sure if the same goes for other X-American groups, but I know that inside the community there is a difference between saying "African-American" and "Black." Go to any neighborhood of Haitian immigrants in Boston or New York and you will quickly find this out. The terms should be used carefully and precisely. It's more important to be worried about historical accuracy than political correctness, and often the term "Black" is more favorable when you're talking about northern industrial racism. Conversely, in the US South in the 1920s Black Americans who spoke Spanish would sometimes pass themselves off as Cubans to gain equal treatment on rail transportation, etc... and once again the distinction between racism against Blacks and racism against African-Americans becomes very important. All African-Americans are Black, not all Black people are African-Americans.Billy P 14:50, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

History of Discrimination

Should the page include more details about the Civil Rights movement, or should it just include a link to it? --Titoxd 8 July 2005 22:32 (UTC)

• It could include more however the article needs a lot more on Western and especially Northern racist tendencies. Falphin 9 July 2005 01:12 (UTC)

Organizing all racism in the US articles

...into a table. Anyone experienced with creating tables?

This is a massive topic - perhaps several COTW tasks merged into one article. The best we can do is better organize the overall theme.

lots of issues | leave me a message 9 July 2005 02:16 (UTC)

what are you picturing for this table? Elefuntboy 08:46, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

nvm, I don't think we have enough related major articles to form a "series" table. lots of issues | leave me a message 16:32, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I really think we could do a series, either on Racism, or American Racism.Billy P 14:51, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Debate in the Watermelon article

Watermelons were strongly associated with racism, as the text in watermelon mentions, for many decades in America. But should the watermelon article include a representative caricature of a black person eating a watermelon, that some find offensive? There's a strawpoll going on at Talk:Watermelon#Straw poll on watermelon caricature image. – Quadell 11:24, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

citations, anyone?

Most of the information here is probably true, but there's a real lack of citations. This passage, for instance:

So from that time on, the wealthy landowners determined that only Africans would be used as slaves - and white colonists were promised whatever benefits would have gone to Africans had they continued to be indentured servants

Were these promises in writing somewhere, or is this just the analysis of historians later? With no citation whatsoever this should be removed. Just on the face of it these "promises " don't address the cause of Bacon's rebellion. The typical reward for indentured servitude was payment for your passage and not a whole lot more anyway.

--155.91.19.73 22:56, 15 September 2005 (UTC)