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Revision as of 19:38, 3 October 2005 by BigDaddy777 (talk | contribs) (→Your message)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)Welcome,
I noticed your message on Kate's page, and appreciate your logging in.
Regarding the bullies, liars, and just plain unwik people on the Coulter page, I do not know what Kate can actually do about it except stop by and tell them to play nice. Perhaps she can take their charges seriously, and either have them investigated (although sock checks are not easily done), or block the accusers for making specious and obviously disingenuous and inflammatory accusations. From what I have observed, neither of those things will happen. It doesn't matter how nice you are to them, they will still revert your edits. I have been nice, and have had my edits treated exactly like those of Big Daddy. This in itself completely exposes their intentions and, of course, their bad faith.
Of course, they are all leaving an unforgiving edit history behind them, so it's not like one can't review it and see their patters of behavior, and study their tactics. They are much more transparent in their motives than the conceits they utter.
Keep up the good work, and let me know if you need assistance from an intelligent and fair user. If you're wrong about something, I won't lie and say you're right, but if you're right, I will defend you.
Also, try to get some work done on non-disuted pages, if you haven't already (I haven't checked your history). The uncollaborative and ungracious folks at Coulter are not interested in contributing to those, so you will get some work done there, unless they stalk you.
Regards,
From the Other Big Daddy :)
Welcome! I think you're great and am terribly sorry you had to endure the scorn that was specifically intended for me. lol! I appreciate your courageous move and hope this puts an end to the slanderous charges bandied about. Keep doing the excellent work you have to remove POV from conservative columnists articles. I GUARANTEE you we will succeed as this is what founder Jimmy Wales wants. Don't let the humorless or the hateful deter you. I still get the biggest kick out of Misplaced Pages. It's an ingenius idea and will prevail as Jimmy envisioned it. A FAIR encyclopedia, not a breeding ground for people of just one single distorted view of the world. Ps Paul Klenk is right. You will not find a fairer, more even handed editor here. He cares passionately about his excellent work at Misplaced Pages. I observed with my very own eyes how, though he literally bent over backwards for these people, they just spit on him like he was refuse. Something's got to be done about this...Big Daddy 14:48, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Your message
I agree that everybody working on the Ann Coulter article should try to calm down a little bit and start talking about content instead of endlessly discussing each other. There's only so much I can do, though -- what we have, functionally, is an editing conflict over content, and while that is frustrating, there's not much I am empowered to do to solve that. I can't make people agree with one another.
Paul implied that I will only be taking your concerns seriously if I either "have them investigated" or block them for being uncivil, which I take issue with. The fact of the matter is that you yourself are empowered to "have them investigated" by using Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution, you don't need me to do it for you and in fact it would be highly irregular if I did, since I've not been involved in the issues myself. There's not really been anything that I can block anyone over, quite frankly -- although personal attacks and incivility are considered against policy, administrators are strongly discouraged from blocking users for violations of these policies unless they are particularly egregious (racial slurs, physical threats, lawsuit threats). And if I was going to block folks for making "inflammatory comments," practically everybody editing on that page would end up with a block, and that certainly wouldn't help discussions. Basically, everybody needs to calm down and try to work together. I wish I could wave a magic wand and make everybody sit down and listen to one another, but I can't. Try opening an RFC or engaging a mediator. · Katefan0 15:46, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
- Oh, and I am glad you opened an account. Much of the time anon contributions on Misplaced Pages are not given as much credence as those from registered users. So this was a good step if you're serious about contributing to Misplaced Pages. Good luck · Katefan0 15:51, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
- Ohh, I see; I thought you were referring to the fireworks on the Ann Coulter talk page. Well, as for sockpuppetry -- checking takes a heavy toll on the servers, so typically only developers are able to perform those checks. The only user that can perform them is User:David Gerard. Your only option really is to make a request to him; it's far beyond anything I can deal with myself. · Katefan0 16:12, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
From Paul to 67124 and Kate:
Actually, Kate may have misunderstood what I was getting at -- maybe because I was not very clear. I know she takes your concerns seriously. If you read what I wrote, I was referring to taking the accusations of sock puppetry seriously, in addition to her other actions (among which are 1] keeping an eye on the page and 2] telling people to play nice). What I mean(t) by the "seriously" remark is:
- When people speciously (or stupidly) throw around such accusations, it is highly disruptive. Calling people's bluff and asking for real, not imagined, evidence (this is what I mean by "taking seriously") should either shut them up or get them to spill their evidence, if indeed they have any. This should quell some of the disruption.
- If it then becomes obvious that there is no real evidence, the user needs to own up to this. The accusations I have read are rarely even qualified as "suspicions" -- they are out-and-out statements of "fact", and is making it harder to edit the page, get along, calm down, and collaborate. It is, I believe, an ugly tactic to attack other users, sully their reputations, and drive them away.
Kate is also correct to point out the many other options. I didn't mean to imply that anyone's options are so restrictive. However, I did mean to imply that, judging from the increasing incivility and recklessness of that page, there isn't a whole lot that Kate can do (not judging her intent or quality of work, just the outcome so far). She has tried her best to keep her eyes on that page, and it is getting worse.
It is informative, Kate, to hear the prevailing thinking about blocking. I respect admins' reluctance to block, but I do think that a one-hour block, from time to time, can send the right message. It need not be punitive; it can just tell the accuser to cool off and be ready to stop the accusations and apologize when they return. Calling someone a sockpuppet is an extremely serious charge; in the context of this talk page, could be construed as gaming the system. Inflammatory comments are one thing; the inflammatory and false accusations in question are, imho, outrageous and a more serious matter. paul klenk 17:33, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, I don't know about that.
Here's what Katefan once wrote me -
Be careful...
...you are coming perilously close to being blocked. Please read my comments at Talk:Karl Rove. Best · Katefan0(scribble) 04:38, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
And I might add I was still pretty much a newbie at this point and the incident had to do with ryan ERASING my commentary in an ARTICLE talk page!! Being new, I thought, if she can do that to me, I'll do that to her so it went back and forth until Kate stepped in within minutes I might add... with the above threat. I wonder if Kate can point out a similar threat to block made to Ryan or anybody else who's vandalized me in that manner? Big Daddy 19:38, 3 October 2005 (UTC)