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IPA templates for Cyrillic

Untifler, be cautious about using Template:IPA for Cyrillic text. I don't think all of the fonts specified in the template contain all of the letters (at least Gentium doesn't have letters beyond the Russian, that I know of). This could make someone's display worse instead of better.

The best solution would be to create another similar template, specifically for Cyrillic and that contains only fonts that have all the possible characters.

—Michael Z. 2005-02-4 00:57 Z

I've replaced the IPA template with Template:Unicode for now, as was suggested at Template talk:IPA. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs, blog) 02:26, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

I have a question: what are the "correct" Unicode code points for the characters that are specific to Chuvash, i.e. not in the standard Cyrillic/ Russian alphabet? Particularly the A/a and E/e with the caron or breve on top: is it supposed to be a caron or a breve? These look almost identical, particulary with small font sizes, but of course they're different code points (E + caron = U+011A, E + breve = U+04D6). Of course it's possible both are used...

(apologies for my signature; I haven't figured this thing out yet)

  Mike Maxwell
 128.8.89.5 15:38, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

OK, I'm the above Mike Maxwell, and I've now created an account, so I can be legitimate :-).

  McSwell 18:41, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Whether classification is true?

Here it is specified (Turkic_languages):

Turkic → Oghuric (or Hunnic) → Proto-Bulgar

I no speak english. Please correct it. PCode 17:36, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

I have corrected the classification order. --Hottenot

Phonology of consonants

Could they please be in IPA instead of Cyrillic transliteration? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.200.206 (talk) 20:33, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Protected

I protected the page in the hopes that our anon. edit warrior will join us or at least sign in. His POV is that only native names can be listed as alternate names, not a convention followed on any other language article. kwami (talk) 22:32, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally, would not it be better to list the variant spellings for the name of the language - along with an indication in what publications and in what language these names are used - in a small separate section, rather than in the first sentence of the article? Vmenkov (talk) 22:53, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

While a laundry list of all attested variants of "Chuvash" is not desirable, to eliminate all alternates is equally undesirable. What are the most commonly used alternate spellings for Chuvash? (A separate section is not desirable either since this is not a major topic.) (Taivo (talk) 23:01, 24 November 2008 (UTC))

In other articles when things like this become distracting to the lede, but aren't worth a dedicated section, people sometimes put them in a footnote. "Chuvash" is the only common term in English, so maybe this would be appropriate here? kwami (talk) 08:19, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I would still think that the articles on German language, with its section on German_language#Names_for_German_in_other_languages, or Persian language with Persian language#Local names, are good examples. I'd have to agree with kwami that just listing a bunch of names without context for each one is not entirely helpful or educational; but explaining whether those other names are/were used in English, or are used in some other language(s) where much is written about the Chuvash, would be quite useful for an interested reader. As a casual reader, I currently have no idea what's behind all those names - is Chăvash is perhaps based on a different transliteration of the self-name of the language? is much study of that language done in Turkey where it is called Çuvaş?, etc. Vmenkov (talk) 11:30, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

At the time I asked for protection, there was an edit war going on without discussion. That is unacceptable in any situation. In looking at the issue, I've noticed that the only English alternative listed anywhere for Chuvash is "Bulgar", but that has a separate article. In this case, I don't see any real need for the alternative names since they aren't found in English. A footnote with foreign forms would be acceptable, but presently these names look more like multiple Turkish spellings and European forms. I'll place them in a footnote for now. (Taivo (talk) 14:09, 25 November 2008 (UTC))

I came accross the excentric editing of this anon. on my watch of the languages and linguistics sector. I'm a linguist and part of the project covering the subject. In articles on uncommon languages, variants of language names are given to a full extent and always in the main body of the text. Relegating them to a footnote is humoring crackpot views of how the encyclopedia should be run.

The same anon. has been deleting German references for Russian ones and a Chuvash-Turkish online dictionary in favor of a Chuvash-Russian one. He uses several IP addresses. I reported him here. Best, Eklir (talk) 00:00, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

In deciding how many alternate forms to include in a language article, I generally go by what Ethnologue and Linguist List have. In this case, the only alternate form shown in either source is "Bulgar". We could get extreme and follow the extensive lists of alternate spellings in Voegelin and Voegelin, but that seems to be overkill. In this case, there aren't really any major variants (all are simply orthographic variations of "Chuvash"). The footnote solution seems much more logical in this case. (Taivo (talk) 06:52, 26 November 2008 (UTC))

Ethnologue is not reliable for alternate language names. Bulgar is at best a sister language to Chuvash with both of them belonging to the Oghur language family. Eklir (talk) 08:54, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

And he just deleted your comments about him. We can do a range block, but that's rather extreme, because no-one else at that IP address would be able to edit. (I doubt he's changing his account, just using a variable IP address. That's not under his control.) Or we can keep this article protected.

I agree that Ethnologue is not reliable. For most languages, however, we list alternates so that people can cross-ref other sources, and generally stick to English names from the last couple centuries. I don't have a problem with lots of others, but it really is trivia for nearly everybody, so I think a footnote is proper. kwami (talk) 10:26, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Our anon. is repeatedly deleting an external link to a dictionary, claiming it's "false information". I've been blocking his addresses as he uses them. Perhaps he'll sign in and join us. kwami (talk) 11:45, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

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