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The exchange rates — one Mona Lisa equalled Bergen-Belsen, one Armenian genocide equalled the Ninth Symphony plus three Great Pyramids — were suggested, but there was room for haggling. To do this you needed to know the numbers — the total number of corpses for the atrocities, the latest open-market price for the artworks; or, if the artworks had been stolen, the amount paid out by the insurance policy. It was a wicked game.
That was the trouble with Blood and Roses: it was easier to remember the Blood stuff. The other trouble was that the Blood player usually won, but winning meant you inherited a wasteland. This was the point of the game, said Crake, when Jimmy complained. Jimmy said that if that was the point, it was pretty pointless. He didn't want to tell Crake that he was having some severe nightmares: the one where the Parthenon was decorated with cut-off heads was, for some reason, the worst.
I guess along the lines of pop culture, some editors were bemused at the obscurity of many hooks that appear on the main page. I have on my travels seen plenty of more notable stubs which could be expanded five-fold, which I thought would be interesting to expand and place on the main page. I think I will copy this archived stuff into my userspace anyway, but held a (largely aborted) competition to highlight/find some more notable material that is too stubby and too expanded. I guess this is my way of addressing systemic bias (though with carrots rather than sticks). Your own personal mission, should you choose to accept, it is to find the most notable indonesian/balinese stubs to expand 5-fold and get onto the main page. Your skill with prose and thoroughness with referencing should make this easy. It is funny to see how a selection of contributors modifies the brownian motion of article creation, so for a while, rather than a spread of random articles, there were overrepresented birds, fungi, medieval Chinese figures, miscellaneous North American synagogues, and lots of US historical houses. Definitely needs more third world mateiral. Also, there is systemic bias in the birds wikiproject with a definite anglophone preponderance, so if you run across anything interesting from a local perspective avianwise that might make a good DYK, GA or even FA. Anyway, all this is presuming the arb works out...Cheers, Casliber (talk·contribs) 11:31, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
The above-linked ban review has been closed and a motion passed. You have been unblocked, conditional to the restrictions and mentorship arrangement set out in the motion, available in full at this link. The three mentors assigned are Casliber (talk·contribs), Jayvdb (talk·contribs) and Moreschi (talk·contribs).
Yes, I can see what you mean about WP:AN, WP:AN/I etc and common boards (I would think it'd apply to threads rather than the whole board as such. Need to clarify that with the arb committee I think. Cheers, Casliber (talk·contribs) 04:23, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Welcome back. In the spirit of the upcoming season, I'm hoping for peace on Earth; hopefully we'll at least have peace with you this time? Hope springs eternal, you know. :) BOZ (talk) 16:47, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Thirded (if that's a word?). Also, as Eleanor Roosevelt said, "Learn from the mistakes of others, life's too short to make them all yourself," i.e. I have found that editing in new areas that I did not previously edit in seems to get positive feedback, whereas old whatever you want to call them have a tendency to be well you know in the areas I used to focus on. Best, --A Nobody16:54, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
Uh, the upcoming season here is the wet season… but I get it. BOZ, I am going to offer a view on Gavin's RfC, however I'm not going to focus on D&D nearly as much (unencyclopaedic, and all). I will vigorously oppose D&D's NotableDick, if necessary; that's always been a key reason for my involvement there.
Nobody, I am focused on editing in a wider range of areas; see? I have not been 'gone', I have better than 10,000 edits while on holiday from en:wp; see?
Hey Jack. :) It's good that you would step in to help against "He Who Must Not Be Named Because He Loves To Hear His Name And That Makes Him Show Up"; however, I always assumed he was doing what he was doing to D&D articles more to annoy you (and to a lesser extent, Jeske and Gavin) than because he wanted the templates gone (although I'm sure he wanted that also). Regardless, I haven't seen any clear evidence (not the same as him not being there) of him getting involved in D&D articles in that same way while you were gone from here, whether or not that backs up my theory. I have seen evidence that he has been around, moving pages to nonsense titles before someone moves it back (this comes to mind, for example) so we all need to keep an eye out. The best way to handle that is, as always, revert the change if you can, then let an admin know so they can block and semi-protect. Carry on! :)
I see you've been doing a lot of good work. Carry on with that as well! :) (But yeah, I'm sure it's not as wet here as it is on an island, but we've got plenty of slush and snow, so wet it is.) BOZ (talk) 15:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
stuff grows here!
The nakalanak needs to get laid. If he thinks he's annoyed me, he's way off; he's kinda fun to beat-up on ;) See my history and compare the timing circa 2005 with his; I was reading the rfar pages quite assiduously back in the day. I also understand the entomology of his usersname. The D&D crowd needs to quite clearly disown their patron vandal. Comments like this one ("Giving him the Grawp treatment seems to be the only way to get anything done") amount to an endorsement of such disruptive behavior. As the meme goes, he's got over 9,000 cockpuppets; how sure are you that a few of them aren't of the WP:GOODHAND variety?
I have no idea where you are; I'd speculate that it would be the northern United States, but that's just what you seem to be implying. Here's it always about 27°C (a bit over 80°F) and breezy and not very humid, even in the heavy rains. It rains about every other afternoon for an hour or so; most often late at night and early in the morning. This is the season when stuff grows at an amazing rate. Cheers, Jack Merridew05:55, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, partly to annoy you, and partly just to get his kicks. ;) If he hasn't been around to bother you lately, then that can only be a good thing (unless it just means he's moved on to someone else). I do remember JA fighting any little edit he didn't agree with to one of "his" articles, so that was certainly no fun. Advocating JA/G's (heh) seriously overt bad behavior is certainly not where I'm coming from, and I've been trying (god help me) to be as cool and calm and productive as I can to hopefully inspire others to do the same. Although before JA's block he was contributing some decent work to the project, he hasn't contributed anything useful since then and I would hope the majority opinion of our project reflects that. Anyway, sounds beautiful where you're at - want to trade? :) BOZ (talk) 16:49, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
No-trade; fuck winter. I wear sandals every day; Summer, Day 1307.
I have a dim view of WikiProjects; all of them. When you say 'project' you mean WP:D&D, when I use the word 'project' I mean an encyclopaedia that doesn't suck. In an even broader sense, I mean all of the WMF projects. I have more edits elsewhere than here. You're a Single Project Account. Think about it. WikiProjects are a self-selecting group and often they have WP:OWNership agendas, and amount to attempts to seceed from the real project. A lot of WikiProject will morph into WikiaProjects. That's what Pixel's so afreaid of. Cheers, Jack Merridew13:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
Jack, please do not use any variation or allusion to my old username (please see the note on the top of my talk page why). Anyway, yes, I see that you have been doing some other good stuff and I believe that is why you are back. I am hoping to help Durova bring some rock articles out of stub status and maybe even get some good article contributions as well as my usual welcoming and rescue efforts. All the best! Sincerely, --A Nobody00:51, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Done; see my userpage and the Category: Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Davenbelle at the bottom. I believe in acknowledging one's history. I can see that some RL issue may be at play here, in you case. I've not missed your history of late; let me offer a bit of advice: read WP:TEND and WP:DISRUPT. You really need to accept that your approach to AfDs and RfAs is problematic. The wiki does discriminate against WP:NOT#INFO all the time. Judging an admin candidate solely on your perception of their views on inclusion criteria is a colossal assumption of bad faith. I, for example, would not close an AfD on an article about cruft as delete, I'd let someone else do it, as my doing it would only inspire others to go disrupt DRV.
I do recall reading several of your comments about Wikia at the E&C2 workshop, but I also recall several mentions of Wikia at the E&C1 workshop and particularly at Talk:List of Scrubs episodes before E&C2 opened. I also recall being contacted last December about the Wikia Annex, along with several other editors, including you — although it was later determined that that editor was a sockpuppet of Grawp. And yes, the Wikia Annex was mentioned in E&C2.
I'm sure your comments had some influence on me, but I've been looking into the matter more and more. You may be interested in reading this comment from me on my talk page, which refers to an email by the CEO of Wikia, Inc in June as well as an article in The Guardian. Basically, Jimbo Wales (User:Jimbo Wales) and Angela Beesley (User:Angela) founded Wikicities, a for-profit wiki, in late 2004. In March 2005, the Misplaced Pages Board of Trustees, which Angela was on, suggested a user create a Star Wars wiki there. Angela has edited several Wikia templates on Misplaced Pages. In March 2006, Wikicities was renamed Wikia and the official press release on March 27, 2006 mentioned Wookieepedia. Also on March 27, 2006, WP:WAF was created, and it plugged Wookieepedia. On June 16, 2006, WAF was marked a guideline, and WAF continues to plug Wookieepedia to this day — including several other Wikia sites. Thirteen days later, WP:NOT#PLOT was proposed based on WP:WAF. WP:PLOT was added to NOT on July 9, 2006, and PLOT encourages the deletion of articles that are just plot summaries — which includes articles about scores of fictional characters. WP:FICT mentioned Wikia from August 2007 to March 2008 — during the span of E&C1 and E&C2. I've already noted that TTN, a central figure in E&C1 and E&C2, is apparently an editor at xiaolinshowdown.wikia.com as well as gaming.wikia.com.
This press release from 2007 by the Wikimedia Foundation states that Wikia, Inc. is not the commercial counterpart to Misplaced Pages or the Wikimedia Foundation. However, several Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines currently promote Wikia, and have for some time. So Wikia has leverage. I am thinking of proposing a Misplaced Pages policy on how to deal with Wikia at WP:WIKIA. If that ever happens, your input would be welcome. --Pixelface (talk) 20:11, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
Countering systemic bias #65 - bird folklore
One thing that might be kinda fun, I have been trying to counteract the anglosaxon bias of bird folklore (I love how various cultures have interpreted their little critters)
So European Robin has the obligatory material, as do many other english birds etc. I have hunted some aboriginal material to embellish aussie birds such as Willie Wagtail and others, but thought it may be good if you found anything in bahasa or knew of some local folklore, I have some books on parrots of the world and some SE asian birds, so whipping up a DYK from a stub is easy-peasy, plus we get some 3rd world folklore into it - if you find something interesting....let me know the species/bird. Cheers, Casliber (talk·contribs) 12:07, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
my bahasa sucks; I recognize maybe one in 20 words.
'burung' is bird, as in flu burung; also a nasty computer virus from Ambonese separatists.
most of the birds I see here, and hear here, are chickens.
'ayam' is chicken; tastes like chicken, too.
a very common pastime is…
Balinese men sure do love their cocks!
In the early evening they take them out, stroke and fondle them, croon to them and sometimes play “my cock’s better than your cock″ by the side of the road along with their Balinese companions. To a visitor from the west, one cock looks pretty much like another cock. After all, to most westerners, a rooster’s just a hen with a bad attitude.
Cockfighting (or at least the betting on them) is illegal in Indonesia. At least there’s a law against it someplace on some law book. Nobody seems to know where that place is or what law book. It has something to do with practicing one’s religion. If you need to throw a rooster at another rooster and good money after bad in your quest for a better relationship with god(s), you’re golden. You can do roosters. And wagering.
Roosters are kept separated from each other (so they don’t do freelance fighting when you have no money on the outcome) in cock cages. You’ll see them everywhere, often right outside your room. Cocks in cages awaken as early as cocks ranging free, and they are just as enthusiastic in announcing the dawn. When choosing a place to sleep, keep a sharp eye out for hive-shaped baskets with grown-up chickens inside.
— a tale from a website that never launched
I can get pictures ;)
I also have a dove that lives just outside my bathroom window; there's a bit of roof over it and the nest is perched on the support.
This topic is an interesting one and your addition of it to Misplaced Pages is welcome. However I notice that you have peremptorily removed the merge proposal which I suggested without allowing time for other editors to comment and with the edit summary "silliness sorted". As I understand it, you seem to be describing the merge proposal as silliness. This seems improper in that it obscures the nature of your edit and is uncivil to boot. Please explain or retract your imputation.
Having engaged with this topic, I may well make further contributions to it, as discussed on the article's talk page. My main concerns at the moment are that we should be using English to describe this topic, rather than using the Balinese language, and that the presentation should be neutral in describing the clash between the Dutch and the Balinese. Such issues of nationalist NPOV can be tricky to resolve and so we should strive to proceed in an open and amicable way. Colonel Warden (talk) 12:18, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Hi... I strongly suggest you leave reverting Moulton to others... at least for now anyway. Your best course of action (after coming off a recent indef block) is to stay away from all drama as much as possible. Being involved with Giano is a high drama activity regardless of what "side" you are on... it's MAD in there if you ask me. ++Lar: t/c16:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Nice job, except I don't like the padlock and trout thing, so I deleted that. Feel free to tweak if it makes it better. — Rlevse • Talk • 13:16, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
re the trout: the idea is really that there's room top-left for one preferred icon; your choice, of course. Not sure what padlock you mean; wasn't intentional... I'll tidy some other stuff I noticed. Enjoy, Jack Merridew13:21, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
The padlock may be because I use a secure connection to wiki. The Trout was on the far left of the screen and covered up the first letters of the page name. It does this on Cas' page too. — Rlevse • Talk • 13:44, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm. Might be a browser thing, but you seem to be using Firefox. Using Monobook? My sock icon must be off for you, too. These are supposed to be to the left of the word 'User' and straddling the vertical line at the edge -- hanging a bit overboard towards the wiki-globe. These have class="topicon" which causes a script to move them a bit. I'll go nix the one on Cas's high-profile page for now... Thanks. Cheers, Jack Merridew14:01, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Ya, my trout is meant to be on the right, along with three others; no padlock, though; I'll try the secure login -- I usually don't bother. I certainly see why you would. About to save a tweak to your user page code. Cheers, Jack Merridew14:13, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Hiya. I noticed that you seem to have a rather better grasp of div placement than I do. I have a custom banner overriding my page titles in my userspace, but for some reason it always displays as indented slightly down and to the right, unless I purge the page, at which point it displays correctly. It also displays correctly on diff pages, for what reason I do not know. Would you have the time to take a look here and see what I've done wrong? // roux05:07, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Sure; I've noticed your page seemed a bit amiss, but have not looked into just what's up. I'll take the above as license.
I'm very down on font tags; they pollute this site with tons of bad markup. I'd be in favor of removing most all of the sig customisation 'features'. Yours is better now (and wasn't bad before; the worst are the ones with big gaudy boxes).
I'm about to save a set of tweaks to your user page (/u); I've not sorted the specific issue yet, but am on it. This first pass is fixing syntax nits and converting to a wiki-table instead of an html one. I've not used 'title-override' before. fyi, it's script moving it.
Hey.. wow. Amazing. Thank you! But here's the weird thing. On /u it looks perfect. But when it transcludes, the header obscures all the tabs etc at the top of the page. // roux07:22, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Scratch that.. the obscuring only happens when I purge. When I don't purge, it's perfect. How weird is that? // roux07:24, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
You're welcome ;) I was about to leave you a note. When you purge, the repositioning is not occurring; this has nothing to do specifically with your pages. The key bit I added is top: -34px !important; which says 'I win, please' — higher specificity that a style sheet rule. The specific positioning offsets may need tweaking; I'm not sure just what the values or units of the offsetting is. I suspect this has to do with getting stuff out of the way of the fundraising banner. I also see that you've a complex userspace and this bar is used in complex ways; I didn't look much at other pages, so reviewing would be prudent. Cheers, Jack Merridew07:33, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
You're most welcome. I'll look a bit further, see what else there is. See you about; pleased to make your acquaintance. Cheers, Jack Merridew07:54, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
I just refactored the html-table in your dashboard page, too; wiki-tables are preferred unless you really need tight control of details (of course, my user page is full of divs and little wiki-text). Something tweaked in the regard to the font-size on your dashboard page, so you may want to add 120% in a few spots. Cheers, Jack Merridew08:09, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Why does your not celebrating Christmas have anything to do with systemic bias? Lots of people do celebrate it, including in America, and I am baffled by your edit summary, removing systemic bias means recognizing all celebrations. I imagine their are celebrations in Bali and that when there are you join in. Thanks, SqueakBox04:46, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
I didn't say that I don't celebrate Christmas (although I don't). A few points;
I don't think it appropriate to promote such a holiday on that fellow's page. Certainly, there should be an article at Christmas and I'd have no issue with a DYK or some other mention on the main page.
the image was not placed the by the user. That page says 'edit this page' and especially encourages things like code fixes, which I did some of. It does not say to mess with the content itself, which mucking with the picture amounts to. If the user had placed the image themselves, I'd certainly not have touched it.
the image is a lame photoshop job and looks like something off a GeoCities page from about 1996.
I see nothing wrong with celebrating the holidays of one's own country/culture. You're denying Jimbo that right. Would you remove such a picture from a Muslim user's page if he were celebrating a Muslim holiday? — Rlevse • Talk • 23:23, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
But Jimbo didn't place the image, an anon did. If he had put the image up, I'd have not touched it (3rd point above). As I said to SqueakBox (on his talk page), I see this as others goofing around with his user page for the lulz. Merry Christmas, Jack Merridew04:36, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Re:Museum Puri Lukisan
Welcome back! The only way around these to get email permission from an official address at the museum- if the museum sends an email saying something like "We're X museum, and we are happy for the material on our website to be released under Y license" to our OTRS address, along with a link to previously uploaded images, then that's the problem sorted. Alternatively, permission letters to Wikimedia are sometimes used, but just trusting the user is not really feasible. J Milburn (talk) 10:55, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Hi, and thanks.
See the note I left the user; User talk:Swidagdo#an end to the image hassles?, and the note to Lar; User talk:Lar#A user needs OTRS help. I've also fired-off email. I believe this is on the up and up; things need to be done properly, of course, but I suggest giving this a few days. If all goes well, I believe there's some stuff to be undeleted and pretty much all of it should go to commons. FYI, these images do not appear to be off their website, but I've not looked extensively. Cheers, Jack Merridew11:07, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
As a matter of courtesy a longer one would be appreciated at the project discussion page -
The Indonesian project has been abeyance for a while - expect lots of nuisance messages - there are quite afew non wikipedia practices creeping into the project once again - good view is at - User:AlexNewArtBot/IndonesiaSearchResult - if you edit or create articles and dont want to hear from me very regularly - please be kind enough to put WP:RS with your work - and also on the talk pages WP Indonesia - other than that have a good new year or whatever - selamat apa apa SatuSuro12:01, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
Maaf; I was just finishing up what I was doing. Mark-up refers to html and wiki-text. I was converting all those stub templates to use wiki-text for the tables instead of hard-coded html; the whole need for a table is dubious, but that an issue for another day. I'll leave a note on WP:ID next, and get better acquainted with both of you guys Cheers, Jack Merridew12:25, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
The more clear explanation to the noticeboard the betters - personal talk page stuff gets lost too easy - cheers SatuSuro12:28, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
Sorry to be a damp squib at the poject talk page but outright copying from wp:id is actively frowned upon - for a whole rang of issues - most of which need to be off wiki - but in essence few WP:RS exist - and as a consequence to flood a project with articles with no WP:RSWP:V is like cursing it - please do not SatuSuro13:13, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining your credentials - it is appreciated - the Indonesian project has enough issues to fill a bemo and scare every one out :) SatuSuro14:14, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
I was about to answer over there, but here's fine. I was looking at the football clubs and such things. One of my pet pet peeves here is unencyclopaedic content. You'll not be seeing any from me. Cheers, Jack Merridew14:21, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
Susuhunan - I am a very strong anti oggle bastard (to use australian) - and to see the find a source and the oggle as a way of doing it - aarrgggggghhhh - a simple check of my library i could fill a reference list with 25 refs + but i am going to bed. cheers and good night - some other time SatuSuro14:45, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
Well got dsitract5ed so can answer - have more refs and books than can poke a sate kambing stick at - also lived in Jawah Tengah in deep deep dark past and more recently a couple of visits to singers visits have helped - btw 737 hope its not with the dubious carriers :( - off now for cert - cheers SatuSuro15:21, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
I expected there was some id:connection. The Garuda birds I fly are all about 30 years old. At least I wasn't on the one that tried to land at over 400km/hr (nb: I started that article ;). Cheers, Jack Merridew15:28, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
I used to live v close to adiscupito and used to take anak yang tiga to watch the planes when he as v small - what used to get to me when i used it as a passenger was the mid runway angle change - there was a brilliant rumour/folklore about bullion under the tarmac at one stage in its history i must tell you about off wiki sometime. the wife (before she was) used to live less than 5 km from the mouth of merapi during one of its dormant eras :( - so the story unfolds. the rest should be offwiki - cheers SatuSuro15:43, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
You move them. I absolutely don't mind, even I'll thank you as long as they're properly sorted. I don't like war. You know the rules here whilst I not. Thanks. I'm gonna continue for a while and then go to rest. I'm very tired, so I'm sorry if I offend anyone. Bennylin (talk) 08:01, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, someone has to move them, and if you won't, I'll do some of it. I have no idea where you are but it would seem to be on the other side of the world than Bali; i.e. late night for you. Ya, I know the rules here; I've been on-wiki for over four years. Lots of history ;) Jack Merridew08:07, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
Templates
Am gonna check em all sometime - and make sure they are with project tags - when its not so hot - trust the issue can get to the project talk page so we can establish that we want english terms in titles and usage and not indonesian. cheers SatuSuro11:06, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
(ec) re "LOTF" Well it could be Laughing On The Floor. The English named ones should be tagged; skip the id:names as that would only result in silly redirects on id:talk page names, too. Nice, cool, rainy day here. I'll chip-in re template naming conventions over there. Cheers, Jack Merridew11:13, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
That was an inappropriate merge, I think. FYI, he's edit waring with me on id:wp. I left him a stern note. I'll have a chat with Revi about all this, too. Also, I believe he's running an unauthorized bot over there. He didn't answer my note, but kept right on editing at high speed. Cheers, Jack Merridew07:36, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Done — Cheers,