Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Tedder (talk | contribs) at 04:29, 9 April 2009 (→WCYB/WAOW: revert, not bold). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Flip Video Mino

I have replied to your request. Stealth (talk)

AGV Sports

Hi Tedder,

My name is Julien, I'm a french Student in the IT department of the Ecole Centrale in Lille France. I would like know why you have deleted historical information and important racers names from the AGV Sports Group Misplaced Pages page without giving any reason for that on the talk page? I ask that because during my school course I had to present this company for a school paper and I'm very familiar with their history. That's why I can say that the first version of the AGV Sports Group Misplaced Pages page was valuable. Moreover you have deleted some valuable reference links and now there is the "Misplaced Pages article issues" tag on the top of the page. Finally, why do you choose only this company without the same concern for information about the others Motorcycle apparel companies which are doing blatant advertising on their Misplaced Pages page (Dainese for example ==> lines 5, 9, 13,18, 20). Please answer me by giving your reasons and where you get the information on my discussion page?

Thank you,

Julien —Preceding unsigned comment added by MisterCobalt (talk • contribs) 20:25, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi MisterColbalt, and welcome to Misplaced Pages. I gave reasons for the deletions on the AGV Sports Group edit summary. The concern is that the article was written as an advertisement. Misplaced Pages shouldn't be used for spam, nor should it be used as a laundry list of individuals sponsored by the company. The external links I removed were per WP:EL: they aren't reliable, primary sources. For instance, having a link to the logo of the company is not necessary. If you want more assistance, let me know. tedder (talk) 20:41, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi Tedder,

I have read the WP:EL page and would like to note that the article was only meant to read as a historical and informative article in a neutral point of view. I haven’t linked any sites where products are advertised nor sold. So I would like to know what part of the article sounds like an advertisement or has impartial point of view? Also, the racer names that have been deleted from the AGV Sport page were important historical facts to the history of AGV Sports Group. Anyone can see these names and create Wiki page if they like. There isn’t any rule in Misplaced Pages that states you can’t mention names of actual people that are crucial to the development of a company if they do not have their own Wiki page. Furthermore, the critical links that I’ve posted, such as the AGV Helmet Official site ( www.agv.it ) or the AGV Helmet Wiki page are important to the history of AGV Sports Group, and were deleted without a notification on why or how or if they even needed to be improved. The external links aren’t a matter of advertisement, but as a reference to the history and evolution of the AGV Sport brand especially in relation to AGV Helmets in Italy. I have linked the logo of the company to specifically reference a legal trademark on a site (www.brandsoftheworld.com) to show the relationship and legal differences of logos from AGV Helmets and AGV Sports group and how they evolved from a common brand, logo and history. The use of this site is critical to identify and distinguish the intellectual properties of AGV Helmets and AGV Sports Group. It would also be helpful to describe the improper text or images that are controversial instead of deleting without proper notifying why and what? Such as the important images of Keith Code and the California Superbike School (20 years old) relative to important sponsorships of AGV Sports Group, or the pictures of the first AGV Sport Brochures made in 1985 that show the beginning stages of AGV Sports Group with the AGV Helmet logo. The deletion of the image of the historical CX1 Glove which was a critical point in AGV Helmet -AGV Sport history and evolution was also deleted without any proper reasoning. But the images of Giacomo Agostini in the early 1970’s wearing an AGV helmet and Bates leathers were left on the article that has less relevance compared to the CX1 glove, confusing me why or what your reason or intentions are. Why would a photo of Bates leathers be on the AGV Sport site and not the CX-1 glove. Should the reader think there is a relationship between AGV and Bates or AGV Sport and Bates? It is only creating more problems and making the article more difficult to write. I’m only trying to improve the article, not to advertise or write information that doesn’t have a neutral view. I’ve looked at other wiki site such as Dianese and Alpinestars and others as reference to improve the AGV Sports Group article, however it seems as though they have less historical facts and FAR MORE of a non-neutral view or commercial tone of a bias view than AGV Sports Group, yet they don’t have any tags or issues with their article. Two months prior, there was a tag for revision stating multiple issues with the article. Changes were made and the wiki tag was removed and it was my understanding that the article was legitimate. Now we have more issues and it’s becoming more difficult to write a factually accurate article and to understand why and what the specific problems you believe exist with the article. Please let me know how I can improve the article if we can find a common ground.

This article is much more than a historical story about the AGVSPORT brand. This is a unique story about a very unusual intellectual property issue that rarely occurs. Two independent companies in foreign countries sharing the same base trade name and history. It has happened very few times like with Rolls Royce Cars and Rolls Royce Aircraft engines. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MisterCobalt (talk • contribs) 20:53, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi Julien, let me sort this out a little bit.

• Be careful comparing article A to article B. Just because another article is written poorly isn't an excuse for this article to be written poorly too. (See WP:OSE; it's in terms of deletion of articles, but makes this point very well)
• I removed images from the article per WP:NOTREPOSITORY, which says Misplaced Pages isn't meant to be a repository of images. In other words, it shouldn't be an image gallery. I'm sorry if I removed the wrong ones- I was trying to use my intuition on which ones were more or less notable. What's more important is the overall number of images- for an article that length, it should really only have two or three images. An example of a good image-heavy page is Motorcycle. There are a lot of images, but they are not in a gallery and don't overwhelm the article. Feel free to substitute "better" images for "worse" ones, but try to keep the overall number somewhat reasonable.
• My concern about "advert" is with the AGV Sport article as a whole. It read fairly heavily as a corporate PR piece- something you'd expect to read from AGV Sport, not something that should be on a balanced encyclopedia. Some highlights from WP:ADVERT: "public relations pieces designed to promote a company (..) articles are usually noted for sales-oriented language". The WP:NPOV cornerstone is very applicable here- notable companies have a good deal of third-party material written about them which can be used to create a neutral point of view about the company, rather than relying upon information from the companies.
• Notability of racers and sponsorees(?): if it's just a list of people that AGV Sport has sponsored, it falls under notability criteria. Lists are discouraged in general, but if it is a list, the individuals need to have clear notability. That can be done within the AGV Sport page, or it can be done on the individual's page. The latter is much more clear, and keeps the notability discussion from dominating the AGV Sport page. If, however, they are central to AGV Sport's history, I'd suggest writing it as a paragraph with solid references. Otherwise, simply listing who AGV Sport has sponsored isn't much different than listing who Paris Hilton hangs out with- it's not entirely encyclopedic.

I think I've addressed your main concerns- let me know if I haven't. And if you feel I'm personally being difficult, know that a good course of action is to take it to the AGV Sport talk page and then post to wpmoto's talk page if you don't hear back from anyone. However, I hope you don't feel that is necessary- I'm very interested in the subject, and I'm trying to keep the AGV Sport article on Misplaced Pages (as I stated on the AGV Sport talk page).

Cheers, tedder (talk) 00:44, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi Tedder,

why do you do so many changes on the AGV Sports Group page? What is the purpose to put the citation tag on a year or state of the USA?

Andy —Preceding unsigned comment added by AndyRobert86 (talk • contribs) 20:34, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Andy- the idea is to get those facts backed up with reliable sources. Cheers, tedder (talk) 20:55, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Please stop. If you continue to blank out or delete portions of page content, templates or other materials from Misplaced Pages, as you did to PageName, you will be blocked from editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AndyRobert86 (talk • contribs)

Leaving here, but don't template the regulars. Please take it to the AGV Sport talk page. tedder (talk) 03:16, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Bigweeboy's redlink removal

Hi Tedder:

Thanks for your comment on removing red links. I will be more vigilant to see that these links should be removed. I am not trying to create any hard with these changes, simply trying to clean up links that do not exist and where the Wiki entry is quite old, and the likehood of that link being created is small. I'll try to do better. Bigweeboy

I replied on your talk page. tedder (talk) 17:12, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Tedder. But how do we know what the chances are that a page will ever be created for a red link? bigweeboy (talk)

BWB- there is certainly an element of guesswork involved. But you can use the guidelines of WP:NOT and WP:N as a general guideline. In other words, there'll probably never be an article about Bigweeboy's contributions to world peace, but perhaps there will be one about Malia Obama's contributions to world peace in the future, if she grows up to receive a Nobel Prize. In general, is it possible an article would be created? To use the spider example, it's quite possible those three links could be created at some point. Hope that helps. Your (other) contributions are excellent- you obviously have an editors' eye, which I don't. tedder (talk) 21:29, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Tedder. I am a new editor and were not familiar with the policy on red links. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I really want to contribute to Wiki and I thought this was a job that helped Wiki get 'cleaned up'. I won't remove any more red links. My reputation on Wiki is important to me and I want to go on record as saying that I innocently removed red links and did not make any other removals like content, templates, I didn't blank out anything, as indicated by your posts on my page. Would you kindly clarify that on my user talk page - that the problem was just red links and it was innocent and I have stopped. Again, many thanks for your help and advice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigweeboy (talk • contribs)

No problem- actually, just delete what you want from your user page. Once you've done that, I'll post something complimentary on there. And don't forget to sign your talk page posts with four tildes. tedder (talk) 16:41, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Message from RGB

Hi Tedder,

I will do my homework on the process of providing information to this remarkable resource. It wasn't clear to me, however, whether my contributions to the Loyalty Marketing article were accepted. Thanks. RGB (talk) 06:28, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi- the problem is that wikipedia has a policy of verifiability, including citing oneself. It's important to draw from reliable published sources. Let me know if you have more questions. tedder (talk) 10:49, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

High Point Market

Hi Tedder,

I was wondering why a link to our news source covering the High Point Market would be considered "Disruptive" and "Spam". Our publication, Furniture Today is a reputable website with daily coverage of this bi-annual event. If a user is looking for additional information about the event, why would our news coverage be considered spam and any reason to be blacklisted from Misplaced Pages.

Thank you,

John —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.76.213.5 (talk) 17:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

• High Point Market / the revert / the website in question

Hi John. I have a couple of issues. The actual content of furnituretoday may be fine, but it's mired in a couple of issues. First, conflict of interest: obviously you are related to the publication. That's okay, but it means you have to follow the COI guidelines very carefully- especially this section. Not that you can't post, but the conflict of interest certainly makes it harder.

Second, link spam and spam. The furnituretoday site has a lot of advertising, including an interstitial ad. That means any links you add look even more spammy and have a greater conflict of interest, since there is direct gain to be made.

Finally, these are both issues that can be overcome (though the interstitial rubs me, and probably others, the wrong way). Your case would be better if you made an effort to contribute to wikipedia outside of areas that you have a conflict of interest. For instance, if you had 50 edits and only one of them was a link to furnituretoday, it'd be a lot easier to ignore.

Keep in mind this is all my point of view. If you feel I'm way off base, you can take it to the talk page of the High Point Market. Having said that, I'm not opposed to that link being re-added, since it does appear to be a reliable source for this niche industry (i.e., something that isn't going to receive coverage from NYTimes or the Washington Post). But don't be surprised if the amount of advertising and spam causes other editors to reach the same conclusion.

So, I'm being verbose. Let me sum up again- you can go ahead and re-add the link, but read the COI and SPAM policies very carefully.

Cheers, tedder (talk) 03:16, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Tedder, thanks for the great information.. as a Long-time Wiki-User, First-Wiki Editor, I have a lot to learn. I'm currently going through the material you sent, but I am already understanding why my link may be considered Wiki-Spam, even though it is providing valuable information. Thanks again, John —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.76.213.5 (talk) 21:20, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Excellent, John. Please drop by my talk page again if you have any questions. tedder (talk) 22:59, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

JamNow Deletions

Hi Tedder,

I see that you have deleted some links inserted in the From First to Last Page and Haste the Day. I am relatively new to Misplaced Pages so I am just trying to understand the system. I see the pages have links called "Interview w/..." and "Official MySpace page" and I was wondering how this is different from my link. JamNow is a music site which has had several live performances and interviews from signed major artists, similar to MySpace Music. If I was just to list the link as an interview or performance without listing the site name would that be acceptable? This would be fine, but they actually are profiles of artists, and I would not know any other way to convey this.

Thank you for the help, Scott —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.76.158.56 (talk) 18:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi Scott, and welcome to Misplaced Pages. The external link guidelines actually say that interview links are okay- but where your posts ran afoul is in the link spam guidelines. Basically, your edit history implies a possible conflict of interest, since all you've done is add links to JamNow.

Having said that, the links are useful. I'd suggest making other contributions (not related to JamNow), then gradually add those links back. Figure 50+ unrelated contributions. These are just my recommendations- again, I feel the links could be helpful, but the rules of COI and linkspam mean you need to be careful. tedder (talk) 03:47, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I completely understand where you were coming from. Thank you for the clarification and help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.7.106 (talk) 16:27, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Premio Zobel

Hi, I think we just had an edit conflict with this. I was tagging it for the mildly dubious claim of being the oldest literary award in the world, and I think the wikipedia monster ate the template. If it was me, I'm sorry. ;o)--OliverTwisted (Stuff) 06:31, 7 April 2009 (UTC)