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Talk:Circumcision and HIV

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ml66uk2 (talk | contribs) at 16:50, 17 June 2009 (FGC/Stallings). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 16:50, 17 June 2009 by Ml66uk2 (talk | contribs) (FGC/Stallings)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

HIV/AIDS topics

First of all, beautefully done, Jakew. To me, what you just did is magic! I added a See Also section. I hope this time there are no issues with it? Anyway, there is a HIV/AIDS topics template(I think?) with many links to HIV/AIDS related articles. I think this article belongs with them but am not sure, and have no clue how to make it happen in any case. --Nakerlund (talk) 17:38, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, Nakerlund. The template is {{AIDS}}. It would be straightforward to include it, but I'm not sure whether this article should be included in the template. I've requested input from other editors at Talk:HIV#Input requested. Jakew (talk) 18:48, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

FGC/Stallings

This edit, which introduces a conference presentation by Stallings, is problematic, for several reasons.

First, every source in this article discusses the relationship between penile circumcision (that is, the removal of the penile foreskin) and HIV. Stallings' paper, in contrast, is about female genital cutting. Thus, there is no logical reason for including this material here.

Second, the edit appears to be very poorly thought out. For example, the material was placed in the section entitled "Langerhans cells and HIV transmission", in spite of the material having no obvious connection with that subject.

Third, the edit is misleading. For example, it begins "Stallings (2005) cited 3 prior studies which showed a correlation between female circumcision and a lower risk of HIV...". The words "showed a correlation" imply that a statistically significant correlation was observed. Slide 11 of Stallings' presentation, however, shows the opposite to be true: the 95% confidence intervals for the odds ratios for all three studies include 1.0, so in fact it would be more accurate to say "...showing no correlation...". (To be precise, one shows a non-significant association between FGC and lower risk of HIV, the other two show a non-significant association between FGC and higher risk.) Further, the conclusions are quoted somewhat selectively. For example, the following conclusion (from slide 38) seems rather important: "As no biological mechanism seems plausible, we conclude that it is due to irreducible confounding."

For these reasons, I'm reverting the change. Jakew (talk) 15:57, 17 June 2009 (UTC)


The title is "Circumcision and HIV", rather than "Male Circumcision and HIV", and the Stallings paper mentions both "circumcision" and "HIV" in the title. You might regard male and female circumcision as being fundamentally different, but many people don't, including most of the people who actually practise female circumcision. I know this isn't something we're going to agree on any time soon, but I placed the Stallings study there because the preceding paragraph discusses FC/FGC/FGM: <<Dowsett (2007) questioned why it was just males that were being encouraged to circumcise: "Langerhans cells occur in the clitoris, the labia and in other parts of both male and female genitals, and no one is talking of removing these in the name of HIV prevention.">>

You're right about the 3 prior studies not showing a significant correlation. My mistake. The Stallings paper itself does though, and whilst it doesn't mention Langerhans cells, I think it belongs there. Either that, or maybe there should be a separate section or even a new page for "Female Circumcision and HIV" (or "FGC and HIV" or "FGM and HIV").

I don't think it makes much difference whether the correlation is explained away as a "conundrum" or due to "irreducible confounding".

I have made another change, and I would like this to be moderated by a third party rather than just reverted. I know we have very differing views on circumcision, but I hope we can find something for the Wiki page we can both agree on.

regards, Mark --Ml66uk2 (talk) 16:50, 17 June 2009 (UTC)