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London List‑class

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Death List‑class

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Rewriting the list

When looking at the cemeteries of England, it was my opinion that it was a very poor list. At the moment I am working on updating that list and making the necessary links.

Because the list of cemeteries in London is substantial and because there is a separate portal for London, I have moved the cemeteries of London to a separate list, using a Wikisort table. The name of the cemetery is linked to an article. This has also meant that remarks on notable people and such have been removed as they should be covered in the article and not in this list. The column "remarks" is only used for distinguishing features.

If you want to add a cemetery, you can insert that after filling this "template" (invisible as it is a remark):

My aim is to finish both the England and London list by the end of September 2010.

--JHvW (talk) 06:53, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

What is notable?

In my opinion a cemetery is notable when it fits at least two of the following categories:

1. The cemetery has listed buildings or structures

2. English Heritage says it is interesting (the site is in the National Register of Historic Parks and Gardens or other publication by EH)

3. It has special historical value (such as the Magnificent Seven)

4. At least five people of note are buried in the cemetery (they have to be mentioned in Misplaced Pages)

5. The cemetery has a Green Heritage Site Accreditation

Not included in this list are:

1. Cemeteries not meant for humans

2. Cemeteries that do not meet above criteria

Examples:

• West Norwood Cemetery is a grade II* park, has 65 structures rated II or II*, is part of the Magnificent Seven, has lots of notable graves, is of special historic interest and has an active friends movement. That it is included goes without saying.
• Grove Park Cemetery was listed by English Heritage as a landscape of special historic interest in November 2003 (Grade II). It's notability as a cemetery can be debated.

--JHvW (talk) 19:55, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for making a useful ordering of the items. I note that Criteria 6-10 are fairly weak criteria for inclusion. Suggest leaving it at just 1-5. Also, getting a Green Flag merely shows that the cemetery is maintained whereas getting a Green Heritage flag shows that it has achieved some notability. I have tweaked the wording to reflect this. One other item that may be worthy of inclusion is those cemeteries has been subject to specific legislation or a court action that sets a precedent. (Though I can't think of any in London that haven't already been picked up by other criteria).

• Grove Park and Teddington have been included because English heritage has determined that they deserve a special place as historic landscapes. Hither Green is included because it has a special function as a nature reserve.

Ephebi (talk) 15:43, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

The list is not yet complete. Before I move on to the crematoria anf former cemeteries, I have to verify all the facts to make sure that they are correct. A typical example is Kensington Hanwell Cemetery, it has been referred to as Kensington Cemetery in Hanwell, possible confusion with Kensington Cemetery (now Gunnersbury Cemmetery) and Hanwell Cemetery (confusing it with the cemetery across the road). Calling it Kensington Hanwell or Old Kensington seems much more sensible, calling it Kensington Cemetery in Hanwell leads to confusion. The same apllies to Mill Hill Cemetery, which has been used to describe Paddington New Cemetery (on Milespit Hill, also known as Paddington District Cemetery) and according to some sources Hanwell Cemetery. The fact that it is sometimes called Paddington Cemetery in Mill Hill (as opposed to Paddington Cemetery in Willesden Lane), does not help.

When I am finished, I will adjust the templates, remove the table of contents and the titels of the sections, so that only the curtain bars are left. This should make the list legible on most computer screens.

The criteria for inclusion is a tough point, it seems unlikely that any cemetery will become a UNESCO World Heritage Site (but you never know). The number of listed structures varies with time. I agree that the Green Flag (or Green Pennant) is more an indication of the level of care than notability. Being a Green Heritage Site makes more sense. But the same could be said for the Magnificent Seven. Their notabilty can not be questioned because they are the most important cemeteries of the Victorian era.

One of the reasons why I have included Grove Park, Teddington and Hither Green. If I were allowed a personal point of view, I would ommit Grove Park and Hither Green because their notabilty is not derived from the fact that they are cemeteries but they fit inclusion criteria.

Also visiting cemeteries is very personal. I do not think that I would recommend anyone to go and visit Nunhead (except of course if it is in combination with West Norwood). Nor would I recommend anyone to go and visit Abney Park or Tower Hamlets (at the moment). Going on a guided tour with someone who is knowledgable is a must for first time visitors who are really interested. I like West Norwood, I feel for Brookwood, I find Highgate an interesting place (and it is next to Waterlow Park and close to Hampstead Heath), but all that is very personal. The Jewish Cemetery in Hoop Lane is interesting because it is in principle two cemeteries showing differences in burial style in East and West Cemetery and is the burial place of many notable people. The fact that it is across the lane from Golders Green Crematorium (which is probably the most notable crematorium in the UK and has a Jewish Chapel) makes a visit convenient. But in Misplaced Pages verifyability and notabilty are paramount, so the inclusion criteria are meant to reflect this.

Now I will get on with finalising the cemeteries and go on to the crematoria and former cemeteries. Just one question, do you think that, for the cemeteries that are included but do not have an article, an article should be written (even if it is only a stub)? --JHvW (talk) 18:22, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Suggestions

--JHvW (talk) 20:23, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Suggestions for removal

None as yet

--JHvW (talk) 11:42, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

• List-Class London-related articles
• Unknown-importance London-related articles
• List-Class Death articles
• Unknown-importance Death articles