Misplaced Pages

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Archives

Index –index– October 28, 2001 – April 12, 2004 April 16, 2004 – August 23, 2004 August 28, 2004 – December 8, 2004 December 9, 2004 – March 23, 2005 March 23, 2005 – July 24, 2005 July 26, 2005 – September 9, 2005 September 9, 2005 – September 24, 2005 September – December 2005 January 2006 January – February 2006 February 2006 February 2006, cont. March 2006 April 2006 – late May 2006 May 24 – July 2006 July 2006 – August 2006 August 2006 Most of September 2006 Late September 2006 – Early November 2006 Most of November 2006 Late November 2006 – December 8, 2006 December 9, 2006 – Mid January 2007 From December 22, 2006 blanking Mid January 2007 – Mid February 2007 Mid February 2007– Feb 25, 2007 From March 2, 2007 blanking March 2–5, 2007 March 5–11, 2007 March 11 – April 3, 2007 April 2 – May 2, 2007 May 3 – June 7, 2007 June 9 – July 4, 2007 July 13 – August 17, 2007 August 17 – September 11, 2007 September 14 – October 7, 2007 October 28 – December 1, 2007 December 2 – December 16, 2007 December 15 – January 4, 2008 January 4 – January 30, 2008 January 30 – February 28, 2008 February 28 – March 11, 2008 March 9 – April 18, 2008 April 18 – May 30, 2008 May 30 – July 27, 2008 July 26 – October 4, 2008 October 4 – November 12, 2008 November 10 – December 10, 2008 December 5 – December 25, 2008 December 25 – January 16, 2009 January 15 – January 27, 2009 January 26 – February 10, 2009 February 8 – March 18, 2009 March 18 – May 6, 2009 May 5 – June 9, 2009 June 10 – July 11, 2009 July 12 – August 25, 2009 August 26 – October 3, 2009 October 4 – November 20, 2009 November 20 – December 21, 2009 December 22, 2009 – January 25, 2010 January 22, 2010 – February 22, 2010 February 22, 2010 – March 17, 2010 March 17, 2010 – April 9, 2010 April 11, 2010 – April 24, 2010 April 23, 2010 – May 12, 2010 May 10, 2010 – June 4, 2010 June 4, 2010 – June 26, 2010 June 26, 2010 – July 22, 2010 July 22, 2010 – August 23, 2010 August 4, 2010 – August 28, 2010 August 28, 2010 – September 14, 2010 September 13, 2010 – October 6, 2010 October 6, 2010 – November 8, 2010 November 8, 2010 – November 21, 2010 November 21, 2010 – December 6, 2010 December 6, 2010 – December 22, 2010 December 21, 2010 – January 17, 2011 January 16, 2011 – February 10, 2011 February 6, 2011 – March 19, 2011 March 16, 2011 – March 26, 2011 March 26, 2011 – April 22, 2011 April 22, 2011 – May 16, 2011 May 17, 2011 – June 9, 2011 June 10, 2011 – July 1, 2011 July 1, 2011 – July 15, 2011 July 16, 2011 – July 26, 2011 July 26, 2011 – August 15, 2011 August 14, 2011 – August 23, 2011 August 21, 2011 – August 31, 2011 August 30, 2011 – September 7, 2011 September 4, 2011 – September 25, 2011 September 26, 2011 – October 19, 2011 October 16, 2011 – November 5, 2011 November 4, 2011 – November 12, 2011 November 11, 2011 – November 24, 2011 November 24, 2011 – December 6, 2011 December 3, 2011 – December 14, 2011 December 10, 2011 – December 16, 2011 (RFC about the Stop Online Piracy Act) December 15, 2011 – December 30, 2011 December 27, 2011 – January 9, 2012 January 9, 2012 – January 18, 2012 January 17, 2012 – January 30, 2012 January 28, 2012 – February 12, 2012 February 7, 2012 – February 25, 2012 February 19, 2012 – March 4, 2012 February 27, 2012 – March 18, 2012 March 17, 2012 – April 2, 2012 March 31, 2012 – April 13, 2012 April 12, 2012 – April 18, 2012 April 18, 2012 – April 26, 2012 April 26, 2012 – May 6, 2012 May 2, 2012 – May 22, 2012 May 19, 2012 – June 9, 2012 June 4, 2012 – June 20, 2012 June 18, 2012 – June 28, 2012 June 26, 2012 – July 12, 2012 July 3, 2012 – July 22, 2012 July 19, 2012 – July 29, 2012 July 25, 2012 – August 9, 2012 August 7, 2012 – August 30, 2012 August 29, 2012 – September 13, 2012 September 13, 2012 – September 27, 2012 September 26, 2012 – October 5, 2012 September 24, 2012 – October 20, 2012 October 9, 2012 – October 31, 2012 October 29, 2012 – November 19, 2012 November 17, 2012 – December 5, 2012 December 2–15, 2012 December 15–28, 2012 December 24, 2012 – January 12, 2013 January 13–31, 2013 February 1–10, 2013 February 11–28, 2013 March 1–16, 2013 March 17–27, 2013 March 28 – April 6, 2013 April 6–19, 2013 April 19 – May 3, 2013 April 25 – May 8, 2013 May 6–19, 2013 May 18–30, 2013 May 27 – June 16, 2013 June 17–30, 2013 June 27 – July 30, 2013 July 31 – August 4, 2013 August 4–12, 2013 August 13–27, 2013 August 28 – September 4, 2013 September 5–10, 2013 September 11–22, 2013 September 24 – October 6, 2013 October 7–16, 2013 October 17–27, 2103 October 28 – November 6, 2013 November 7–19, 2013 November 20–27, 2013 November 28 – December 5, 2013 December 6–24, 2013 December 25–30, 2013 December 31, 2013 – January 14, 2014 January 15–24, 2014 January 25–29, 2014 January 30 – February 10, 2014 Archives not yet dated: 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 This manual archive index may be out of date. Future archives: 184 185 186

This page has archives. Sections older than 1 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 2 sections are present.

No Idea Time

I think that's the first time I've ever seen anyone on QT be honest and say they don't have any expertise to answer with :) tickled me! Kudos. for everyone else, Jimbo is currently on BBC1 in the UK on Question Time - put it on! --Errant 23:27, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Seconded. Best moment on QT ever. "The advantage of not being a politician, is that I can say 'I have no idea'" – Jimmy Wales. Basalisk ⁄_berate 01:41, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

That is just... Wonderful. I wish politicians would admit that more often. ~~ Hi878 04:16, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Surprising that Justin King claimed to have "just checked" his Misplaced Pages entry and could confirm that his £900,000 salary "was not there". More surprising still that the co-founder of Misplaced Pages was not asked to correct him. Facts do sometimes miraculously disappear from Misplaced Pages from time to time, of course. But there seems to have been a bit of frantic editing of King's salary just before that TV programme was broadcast. Whoever that anon editor was! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:35, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Please note, everyone, that trying to watch this on YouTube is not a good idea. There are several videos there pretending to be that programme, but they are all fake. They consist of a small number of stills from the programme and no sound, and start with the text "Youtube will delete this video Watch this episode at ...". The URL given in the video as well as the link lead to a site where I could not actually watch the programme. They asked me to complete one of four surveys first, and the completion of any of them would have required giving them my mobile phone number and PIN so they can commit a subscription fraud against me. In my case the surveys were localised for Austria, but I assume for other countries they will have other scams. I flagged the videos for attention by Google, but they are still up. Hans Adler 01:06, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Note the episode is here at the BBC. I (assuming all of the United States as well) can't view the video, however. Albacore (talk) 01:16, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Update: The fraudulent videos uploaded by YouTube user nkosisanders are still up. If anyone knows how to contact YouTube in such a way that they take a complaint seriously (i.e. not just flagging as spam/scam so that the person looking at it thinks a normal copyvio has been misflagged and therefore simply ignores it), then please let me know. Hans Adler 08:59, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Encouraging more WikiProjects

I am beginning to see why you have been recommending more people to join the various 2,000 or so semi-dormant WP:WikiProjects. The massive amount of work being done to improve quality in Misplaced Pages cannot be understood, unless considered in terms of hundreds of groups of collaborating users. As a member of WP:GOCE (Guild of Copy Editors), this year, we are seeing about 800 articles "corrected" during each of the end-of-year backlog drives, by 30-50 people. The November 2011 drive is:

• WP:WikiProject_Guild_of_Copy_Editors/Backlog_elimination_drives/November_2011

Many of those articles involve partial rewrites of text sections which were rambling or unclear. All together, the GOCE Guild (and friends) seems to have made about 80,000 small changes to the tagged articles, each month, during the July/September drives. Those people seem to be very cooperative, and when a bizarre article is spotted, then discussions on the GOCE talk-page tend to resolve the problems within a few hours. However, about 500 more scruffy articles (each with dozens of punctuation or grammar errors) are tagged for {copyedit|date=} each month, and hence, the GOCE Guild is falling behind by about 100 more articles being left uncorrected each month. People must understand that Misplaced Pages's quality improvements can only be handled by many hundreds of groups of people working in teams. Hence, we need to encourage these hundreds of efforts. I am thinking:

• "WikiProject of WikiProjects" should visit each to offer support or cross-WikiProject advice to help make the teams work faster (WP:GOCE cannot reduce the backlog of 1,000 more tagged articles, every 2 months, by only fixing 800 articles in each drive). More editors are needed.
• "WikiProject Enrollment" needs to advertise system-wide across Misplaced Pages, to encourage people to "enroll" or join into a WikiProject as a place to find other people with shared interests, and less hostility.

Many of the various 2,000 WikiProjects have become dormant, but the resulting quality of Misplaced Pages articles which they left is somewhat amazing, in terms of the broad scope of details which has expanded many one-liner "sub-stubs" into larger stubs with some real content. We just need to keep reminding people to join the active WikiProjects, and try to avoid unproductive conflicts with hostile users who do not like to work in cooperative teams. I hope other people will help expand these efforts, whenever someone mentions how "abusive" other editors are acting. -Wikid77 (talk) 02:04, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

屌你老母 --Dave 02:41, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

The above is not Dave1185, it is an impostor. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 03:54, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

The next general survey can include questions about familiarity with the WikiProjects (as well as with the Misplaced Pages Signpost, the Reference Desk, the Village Pump, and the Manual of Style).

—Wavelength (talk) 03:16, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

The welcoming committee can mention WikiProjects in its welcome templates.

—Wavelength (talk) 19:19, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Suggesting to join WikiProjects in the "WP:Welcoming committee/Welcome templates" does sound like a great idea, to spread the word with less effort. Even experienced editors often run across the new "Welcome messages" or other user-talk pages, so older editors would often see a "join-WikiProjects" note, if sent to new users. -Wikid77 16:36, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages talk:Portal#Merge portals with WikiProjects (permanent link here).

—Wavelength (talk) 19:47, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Excellent ideas, but the problem is Wikipedians who don't believe project consensus applies to them. It doesn't matter how many people are active in a project if a few very active rogue editors believe they have the right to run wild and do whatever they like. This is very discouraging to those who take the time and make the effort to create a project-wide consensus which is then ignored, article by article, by others. No one has the time to watch the hundreds or thousands of articles in a single project. There's no reason to reinvent the wheel on each article within a project. That's the reason for having project-wide consensus, and why these projects should be respected and taken seriously. We either take the concept of discussion and consensus seriously, or we don't. 99.50.188.190 (talk) 18:38, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

An article might be monitored by more than one WikiProject. See Venn diagram.

—Wavelength (talk) 20:02, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

BLP case

Jimbo, could I ask you to have a look at Talk:Tahir Abbas? It's a BLP that contains personally damaging information, based on a single secondary source from two years ago that the publisher recently removed from their website following lengthy legal action by the BLP subject. Editors at the article insist that without a formally published retraction, the original article, although no longer available online, is still a reliable source, and inclusion of the material is fully in line with WP:BLP and WP:DUE. The material based on the source makes up about 25% of the entire BLP. Best, --JN466 13:57, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

How many different venues are you going to use to pursue this? You got no traction at BLPN -- the one editor who seemed to support your approach (Bbb23) changed his mind (deciding to support inclusion) when he read the actual article. Even Scott MacDonald didn't see fit to get involved. In any event this looks to me like a clear instance of canvassing, and even though I have explicitly defended you against others' worries that you might not be approaching this one in good faith, I'm done with that now. For those who might take an interest -- a key principle here is WP:SOURCEACCESS: sources do not have to be available online, and it is indeed the case that the article has not been retracted. Furthermore the material is not based on a single source, we also have the fact that the journal Citizenship Studies retracted one of Abbas's articles because it contained plagiarism. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 15:39, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

You can only use SOURCEACCESS as an argument if you are citing the paper source - not when citing an online source that is no longer available.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 15:48, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

What? I read the paper source originally. I am citing a paper source. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 15:50, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Is the source verifiable now that it's not online? We would have a very different encyclopedia if people could just say "I read it somewhere." Even though I'm not doubting you did. Anyway I'll jump on over to the article discussion since that is where this all should be sorted out :) Quinn 21:40, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

No opinion (yet?) on whether the information should be included, but I think you misread the previous post. The best source for the claim appears to be an article in Times Higher Education, a high-quality weekly print magazine with an excellent reach. (To judge from my experience, it seems to be available in the social rooms of all British university departments.) The article was also available on the THE website, but it appears that it has been pulled specifically, for reasons unknown. Hans Adler 22:43, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

It was removed as part of a settlement of a defamation claim. --JN466 16:29, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

What is the evidence for this statement, Jayen? Nomoskedasticity (talk) 17:28, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Royalist shenanigans

Hello Jimbo, I just noticed you once took an interest in the shenanigans of one Rapportroyal (talk · contribs) and an apparently fake reference he was adding , so you might be interested in a thread I just opened at WP:ANI#Sneaky vandalism campaign involving fake references. Unfortunately these spam links to the alleged "Annuaire de la Noblesse Moderne des Maisons Principales de l'Europe" by "Kozma Prutkov" have been inserted on several other wikis too and are now being used to support edit-warring by the agenda accounts on various "French legitimism" articles. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:47, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Ты заебал уже со своими обращениями. Я нихуя не дам тебе денег, сраный пендос. Достало уже видеть твою рожу и рожу твоего волосатого программиста. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abu-al-valid (talk • contribs) 18:12, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

....

so, shall i start editing via the "Don't Talk With Me" account now? or shall i wait for you to tell me when?.... You said that your gonna post a message on my talk page saying that you've spoken with me and that i promised you that ill behave.....

Again, thankyou for giving me a chance, god bless. again, i promise to stick with the Don't Talk With Me account and be the best editor ever.Don't Talk With Me (talk) 18:39, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Dear Mr Wales

I think a free dictionary of expressions should be founded as a Wikimedia Project. Pdiddyjr (talk) 20:18, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

See http://en.wiktionary.org/Category:English_idioms.

—Wavelength (talk) 20:29, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

You need a new marketing scheme.

I figured it was about that time of year for Misplaced Pages to start begging people for money. Telling us if we were to donate now you'd be able to end your whining but where do your statistics from?! Stop with these pointless appeals, we all know you have people write them for you; another thing, nobody cares about seeing 'appeals' from some nobodies. Spend some of that money you're raising and get at least some sort of D-List celebrity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.100.176.192 (talk) 01:11, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

(P.S.) - I'm not a troll - my I.P. resets everytime I log onto my internet. --01:31, 27 November 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.100.176.192 (talk)

(i.e. - in this case, I'm still logged on and never disconnected. K? Thanks. --97.100.176.192 (talk) 01:32, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

What the IP lists above is, in my opinion, actually kind of a good idea. If we "cough" persuade someone working at one of the UN's departments relating to world knowledge/children/whatever, it might garner more support and donations then, with all due respect, Brandon Harris. Just pointing this out. Or it could run alongside the other stories. A thing to consider come next October. Buggie111 (talk) 03:21, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

• Appeals from nobodies did work: The data showed that the Brandon Harris banner was very popular. Perhaps it is because many people who contribute do not think it "begging" to fund a volunteer organization. Ironically, a key dispute was the exact number of WM staff ("73" or "93" people), so next time, perhaps remind people to just say "nearly 100" or such. I think encyclopedia readers notice the small details, so it is best to avoid precise details, unless there is quality-control phase for copy-editing the details in a fundraiser banner. -Wikid77 (talk) 04:41, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Looks like I shouldn't be speaking about topics I'm not familiar with. But anyway, maybe someone of more international renown would generate even more bling donations? Buggie111 (talk) 04:51, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Potential donors to non-profits often appreciate hearing from those who are actually doing the work (speaking about a topic I am familiar with). It can make it much more personal and real to hear from a volunteer who is passionate about the project, a programmer/employee who believes strongly in the project, etc. But we should all see what the results are before judging, keeping in mind that this is a very challenging time for non-profit fundraising. First Light (talk) 05:17, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Editor base stabilized at 34,000 active editors

The drop in editors has ended: The October usage stats have confirmed, along with 3rd quarter editor counts, that the count of active editors has stabilized at nearly 34,000 active editors (>10 edits per month), since June 2011 (October: 35,028 editors). We had discussed this likely outcome, several months ago, that the "free fall" or "hemorrhaging" of editors was obviously ending, at a bottom-out count of 34,000 people who will always edit English Misplaced Pages each month. The usage data, for the past 5 months (June-Oct.) has confirmed this same pattern of editors staying: each month in 2011 is nearly 99% of the 2010 active-editor counts. See table:

Year	April	May	June	July	Aug	Sep	Oct
2011	37,294	36,930	35,747	35,501	35,651	34,767	35,028
2010	38,991	39,286	36,270	35,856	36,429	34,874	35,443
Monthly counts: http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN/TablesWikipediansEditsGt5.htm

On average, people have stopped leaving: the count never drops below 34,000 active editors. That stability gives the WMF resource planners the controlled usage pattern they need to expect 34,000 active editors each month.

Who were those people who left?  Well, along with active users who were edit-banned, about 3,000 "average editors" left in June 2010, and do not seem to have returned. I am suspecting that they were some groups of students who left in June 2010, but now the remaining 34,000 editors do not take "summer wikibreak" as others did in past years. The final core of 34,000 editors seem to work each month, regardless of the northern hemisphere summer-break period beginning in June. However, it could be that more students (or others) use home computers to continue editing Misplaced Pages when school ends (or on vacations).
Meanwhile, because some other-language Wikipedias are growing in active editors, such as Spanish Misplaced Pages, the total of all-language active Wikipedians has been growing, slightly, for the past 5 months (October: 80,630 active editors, all-languages). Anyway, the so-called "mass exit" of editors since 2007 has clearly ended. Tell the Foundation not to turn off the lights yet: those 34,000 editors intend to stay all year at the party! -Wikid77 (talk) 05:41, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Reduced activity of remaining active editors >10 edits/month (one every three days on average) isn't much, especially if those are relatively minor edits, or include several attempts to get one edit right, or include editors who only hit that number for one month as opposed to several months running. Can we see the numbers for total edits per month over time? I'm interested in finding out if the current anecdotal evidence of previously high-level contributors (>150 edits/month perhaps) dropping down to maintenance (>10/month) is actually as prevalent as it appears. I want to make sure we're all seeing the big picture, not just one statistic over time. 99.50.190.73 (talk) 18:01, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Fund-raising appeal

How much money are you hoping to raise? How much do you have so far? --96.48.13.234 (talk) 07:05, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

See wmf:Special:FundraiserStatistics. Regards, Rock drum _Ba-dum 13:50, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Maybe you should read it...

Jimbo, although we keep removing it because the editor just keeps creating new disposable userids in order to rant, I'll link to one of his earlier attempts to post it. Seeing as my name is mentioned, I have no issues with anyone reviewing either the situation or my role within it. This is one of the diffs where he added it, and the first blocked account is right here. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 14:15, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

• Yet another highly experienced user has gotten caught in the sock-block-complain-newsock-newblock quicksand trap. This time it looks like the admins are targeting the victim as a case of sock-block-complain-resock-ban-from-Misplaced Pages. The user was careful to keep the original account secret, so might be able to return to editing, peacefully, even though the intent is to edit-ban the user due to being caught in the sock-trap. I wonder if the people working on policy WP:SOCK knew this would drive many experienced users to leave WP. -Wikid77 (talk) 16:55, 27 November 2011 (UTC)