Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Irpen (talk | contribs) at 00:20, 11 April 2006 (→moved from []). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

moved from user talk:DDima

Anon, that's at least a sound advise (to not push Russian more than reasonable). Same applies to few others here. Don't fervently purge Russian from Ukrainian topics as well. Ukraine was largely Russified and this is a historic fact. Now, those who lived in Ukraine all their lives and raised to the mixed Ukrainian-Russian culture rightfully claim that this is their country no less than of the more svidomi patriots. Wiser solutions than "Chemodan, Vokzal, Rossiya" or forced Ukrainization are needed. Purging Russian from Ukraine, be it from Misplaced Pages articles, or from schools schools or by changing billingual signs in largely Russophone Kiev for the Ukrainian ones, aren't among the wiser solution. Just make sure all kids in Ukraine learn Ukrainian language and literature well in schools (be them Russian or Ukrainian) and we will all be all right and don't forget to teach the great Russian literature to the kids that attend the Ukrainian schools.

As far as those eternal Misplaced Pages conflicts, I have a right to talk here because on one hand it was me who proposed and pushed through the renaming Kharkiv and Luhansk articles to their current Ukrainian names, and, on the other hand, it was me who did most to stop AndriyK's unwarranted wild Ukrainization of Kievan Rus topics. I am first to correct our Cossack friend when he overdoes with the Russian.

We will all be all right if we concentrate on writing articles, rather than roam from article to article to correct Kyiv and to delete Chernigov. Everyone around likes what Dima is doing, that is just writing dozens of articles about Kiev while others join them to change names.

For addressing the historical injustices of Russification in Ukraine the Misplaced Pages is the wrong forum. Misplaced Pages is to describe them and reflect them, but if de-Russification is the top of someone's agenda, s/he should run for the Parliament seat in Ukraine or write vocal and powerful articles and publish them in the media, not in encyclopedia. --Irpen 21:07, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Kazak, anonymous, you are both somewhat right and largely wrong, IMO. One thing is that Kazak's useful contribution to article is undeniable. He not only adds Russian names but adds content, similar to the anonymous who also doesn't only delete Russian names but also writes from time to time. That Kazak writes more for Ukrainian topics than some of our patriots just shows that he is more committed to Misplaced Pages than his opponents.

Kazak, would you mind if I move this stuff to your talk page? I don't think Dima needs it and I would have moved it to my compatriot's talk but he doesn't have one. If I see no objections, I will either move this to Kazak's talk or to an arbitraty created page, like user talk:UA_MN or smth similar. Then, anon would know where to read my suggestions, which would also be good. Dima, you needn't take any action. --Irpen 18:40, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I am moving this chatter to user talk:134. Please continue it there. --Irpen 21:07, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Irpen: I read it carefully, as I usually do. And as usually there is not much to comment on my side, as I agree with almost everything you wrote..

That's good to hear...then there is no more question on Луцк, Ровно, Владимир-Волынский and other places... --Kuban Cossack 23:57, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Kiev on one side, Lutsk and Rivne on the second side, Donetsk and Odessa on the third side are all different. Is it clear enough?

No, there is Kharkov, Odessa, Lugansk. There is Lviv, Rivne and Chernihiv. Then there is Kiev. Three cases. The former Russophone and should be titled in Russian words. Latter is a unique case. The middle section are Ukrainianophone cities where Russian/Soviet history is so strong that it is fully justifiable to give the name. Think like Koenigsberg appearing in the lead of the Kaliningrad article. --Kuban Cossack 00:12, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I am repeating for the umpteenth time. All places in English Misplaced Pages should be named by the prevailing English usage, as far the article's title is conserned. For all Obslast centers, as of now, those are Ukrainian names except Kiev and Odessa. The Russo-, Ukraini-phoneness matters little on itself. Check the English media and check Britannica. That's the title of the article.

Second question: names in brackets in the first line: all names under which the city can be frequently found in English language literature published these days, be it current or historuc context. The order of them goes alphabetical: German, Polish, Romanian, Russian (excluding those imapplicable).

Third question, usage in context: Based on the usage in English language literature in similar historic context. That is for WW2 Battle of Kharkov, for WWI offensice near Tarnopol, for interwar Lwow University, for Kievan Rus, Prince of Chernigov.

Please remember these simple rules and when you push the edit button to correct names, as a courtesy, do something else for the article's improvement. Make it a committment and the articles will grow. Revert unwelcome change as you like, but when making it first, do something for an article. Regards to all, --Irpen 00:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)