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Antidiskriminator

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Antidiskriminator

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Peacemaker67 (talk) 02:40, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Antidiskriminator (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

ARBMAC

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. Talk:Pavle Đurišić/Archive 2 and Talk:Pavle Đurišić from 9/08/12 onwards, User:Antidiskriminator has created nearly two dozen separate sections on Talk:Pavle Đurišić about supposed deficiencies in Pavle Đurišić causing a great deal of disruption with only minor improvement to the article but until 03/10/12 refused to substantively edit in article space to address the supposed deficiencies, instead expecting the editors that had helped promote the article to MILHIST A-Class and FA to do so apparently in order to gather evidence that those editors are not abiding by WP:NPOV in relation to the general topic of Chetniks - Pavle Đurišić was a Chetnik. See also .
2. move to German-occupied Serbia 12/09/12 Started a second RM immediately after an RM was closed Not Moved. This RM was also closed (on 21 August 2012) with the result Not Moved. Disruption and failure to accept a lack of consensus for a title change.
3. 29/09/12 Dominated this thread making observations about the alleged behaviour of editors opposing a title change. Disruption and failure to accept a lack of consensus for a title change.
4. 10/09/12 Started another thread about the title, again making observations about the alleged behaviour of editors opposing a title change. Continued disruption and failure to accept a lack of consensus for a title change.
5. 14/09/12 Started another thread about the title, again making observations about the alleged behaviour of editors opposing a title change. Same again.
6. 18/09/12 Started another thread about the title, again making observations about the alleged behaviour of editors opposing a title change. Same again.
7. 29/09/12 WP:WIKIHOUNDING but request here to stop has been ignored and the behaviour has continued, and escalated, with specific references being made to the lack of consensus for the RMs at Territory of the Military Commander in Serbia.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Warned on 19/10/10 by Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk · contribs) in relation to not accepting consensus at Skanderbeg - I know this is old, but I included it just to show that User:Antidiskriminator has been well aware of the ARBMAC sanctions for a long time and has prior form for not accepting consensus.
2. Warned on 17/08/12 by Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs) in relation to 3RR/edit-warring on Religion in Albania
3. Warned on 02/09/12 by PRODUCER (talk · contribs) in relation to edit-warring on Pavle Djurisic
4. Warned on 06/09/12 by ZjarriRrethues (talk · contribs) in relation to edit-warring on Siege of Shkodra
5. Warned on 23/09/12 by DIREKTOR (talk · contribs) in relation to disruption (ARBMAC)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I consider User:Antidiskriminator has been highly disruptive across several articles which fall under the ARBMAC sanctions for a period of six weeks or more, including a complete failure to accept that there has been a lack of consensus for a title change. I should probably have reported their behaviour before this, but am a relatively new user and have not had much experience with filing reports, especially not at this level. I want to say up-front that I have found User:Antidiskriminator's behaviour very frustrating, and I may have strayed off the civility path on a couple of occasions due to that frustration and numerous provocations. I am aware that is no excuse and accept that I may be sanctioned myself for that, and will take any such sanction with good grace. However, I feel that since DIREKTOR's warning, the WP:WIKIHOUNDING has taken this beyond the bounds of what could possibly be acceptable and that, combined with User:Antidiskriminator's behaviour on a number of ARBMAC articles, makes it appropriate to file this report now. I just want User:Antidiskriminator to accept when there is no consensus for a move (or edit), stop disrupting articles with long lists of demands on the talkpage and expecting other editors to comply with their demands, and stop WP:WIKIHOUNDING me (which is in my view directly related to the failure to accept lack of consensus and continued disruption). I believe some form of coercion is necessary to get them to stop their disruption and related behaviour.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning User:Antidiskriminator

Statement by User:Antidiskriminator

• After Peacemaker67 requested A-class review of Pavle Đurišić at WikiProject Serbia (diff) (where I am one of the most active members), I responded to his request and started being involved with this article (and many other articles about WWII in Yugoslavia, including major battles and offensives). Here is a list of my contributions to Pavle Đurišić article. I don't think my edits (of this or any other article) were "an endless succcession of tedious, unproductive squabbling" because they pointed out valid flaws and were used as a tool to improve the quality of the article. If I am wrong, I sincerely apologize.
• My first edit of the Territory of the Military Commander in Serbia was nine months before ‎Peacemaker67 started editing wikipedia. I tried to help resolving the name issue of this article and decided to give up on 25 September although I believe my efforts were constructive and supported by the majority of editors.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 13:07, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning User:Antidiskriminator

Comment by Athenean

I don't see anything remotely actionable in the limited evidence provided by Peacemaker, especially with respect to WP:HOUND. I think part of the problem is that Peacemaker is misunderstanding WP:HOUND. Extended talkpage discussions are not Wikihounding, if someone tires of a discussion the simplest and best thing to do is to leave. Providing links to talkpage threads is completely unhelpful and meaningless. I have interacted with Antidiskriminator in the past and have always found him to be model of civility and courteous behavior, even when he is the victim of incivil behavior, as is often the case. He has a clean block log and is always careful to provide sources for his edits. He is also highly skilled at finding sources difficult to access, and as such is a valuable contributor to this topic area. Athenean (talk) 07:42, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

The only wikihounding I see here is by Gaius Claudius Nero (bringing up year-old diffs, now that's wikihounding), not to mention accusations of bad faith and conspiracy theories. Athenean (talk) 16:14, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Comment by WhiteWriter

I also dont find anything sanctionable here. Based on my previous experiences with User:Antidiskriminator, he may be regarded as great, highly relevant and good faithed editor, with great knowledge of wiki guidelines and usage of sources and references. Also, i never saw that he lost his temper, even for a bit, which is priceless. Diffs presented are unrelated to the WPHOUND. I also highly doubt that user is capable to do any guidelines breach, as it was presented. In the end, editor for example. Also, as i already stated on ANI, this AE is nothing more then try to eliminate opposing side in a dispute, in a previously successful traveling circus attack way, usually unrelated to the problem. Antid's numerous constructive propositions to solve the obvious problem with page Territory of the Military Commander in Serbia are obviously problematic for some. Therefore, i can expect several editors included in this problem to recall any problematic situation from the past and present, in order to fulfill this request. This is a example where content dispute can end, in a traveling circus caravan. --WhiteWriter 13:55, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Comment by PRODUCER

I found Anti's behavior at the Pavle Đurišić article to constitute tendentious editing and to be belligerent. After the article had been promoted to FA status for some time (28 August), Anti took his first personal A-class review and then he cut up his points into sections on the article's talk page where he tried whatever tactic he could to remove information he personally disliked and push in information he does like, in essence throwing whatever can stick. After that he rehashed them twice and posted them as reasons as to why the article should not be A class article! Reaching whatever reason he can no matter how baseless, unfounded, the long length discussion, or the numerous sections in which they were discussed:

• Communist subordination:
  • On 26 August, he brought it up in his initial review
  • On 24 August, since that failed, he brought it up again at the article talkpage
  • On 3 September, since that failed, he brought it up in his rehashed review

• Family/parents:
  • On 15 August, he brought it up in his initial review
  • On 24 August, since that failed, he brought it up again at the article talkpage
  • On 3 September, since that failed, he brought it up in his rehashed review
• Iron Cross:
  • On 22 August he claimed that there is a controversy
  • On 25 August, since that failed, he claimed that there was undue weight ,
  • On 31 August, since that failed, he attacked the source that supports the award.
  • On 3 September, since that failed, he stated all at once that it is disputed, that there's undue weight, and that the source used is unreliable in his rehashed review
• A song:
  • On 26 August, he brought it up in his initial review
  • On 2 September, since that failed, he brought it up again at the article talkpage
• Berane:
  • On 26 August, he brought it up in his initial review
  • On 2 September, since that failed, he brought it up again at the article talkpage
  • On 18 September, since that failed, again brought it up

These are by no means the only diffs available, in many cases Anti takes one topic and interjects it while discussing another. To further his control of the talk page (in what I can only interpret as an attempt to WP:OWN it) he makes use of a "unresolved" template for every discussion in which he does not have a favorable outcome (no matter how long the matter was discussed or how weak his arguments) and reverts anyone who dares modify them. To Anti users on the talk page are a blockade of sorts and continues to refuse to get the point and simply reiterates the same views and points he held previously through duplicate sections and discussions. The same editorial behavior can be found on the Territory of the Military Commander in Serbia article where with WhiteWriter he has attempted to push their POV (including that of PANONIAN who was banned on AE for his disruptive behavior ) continuously and over many redundant sections. His support of him is no surprise. --◅ PRODUCER (TALK) 14:50, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Another Greek editor aware of this discussion and vouching for Anti? Hmmm... --◅ PRODUCER (TALK) 15:22, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

I note that Antidiskriminator was blocked indefinitely on his Serbian account early this year for his disruptive behavior and "systematic trolling". He was blocked by four different admins for the same behavioral problem on numerous occasions in the past. --◅ PRODUCER (TALK) 12:47, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Comment by ZjarriRrethues

• The report summarizes Antidiskriminator's decorum breaches and editing very concisely. The major issue regarding Antidiskriminator is his denial to accept consensus which is followed by semi-"retaliatory" acts i.e. wikihounding among others. On Territory of the Military Commander in Serbia he kept starting new discussions on the same topics using different arguments every time as he couldn't gain approval. As that was becoming an ad infinitum situation he followed Peacemaker67 and disputed him on articles he had never shown any interest in(Pavle Durisic etc.). There's a long history of that particular kind of editing as evidenced by the ARBMAC warnings (first in 2010 for restarting the same debates against consensus; latest in 2012 for the same reasons) and edit-warring warnings.--— ZjarriRrethues —  15:13, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

• What does Antidiskriminator mean by the second part of his statement? The result of his RM was no consensus. Where does he base his belief that his proposal regarding the title issue was supported by the majority of editors?
• That being said, source and especially RS abuse has been a major issue as Antidiskriminator uses them selectively and always insists that his sources are RS regardless of their extreme nature. For example, on Vulnetari (Albanian semi-collaborationist unit of WWII) he was using Smilja Avramov, a councillor of Milosevic and flagrant anti-semite who among others has written that Olaf Palme, JF Kennedy and Aldo Moro were all killed by the Trilateral Commission because they broke the vow of secrecy ...the destruction of Yugoslavia was a joint endeavour of the Vatican and the US establishment. Four (Peacemaker67, Aigest, PRODUCER, I) users who pointed out the nature of his sources got WP:IDHT responses about the arguments being unrelated to RS and that RSN was needed (Talk:Vulnetari#General comment). The wikilawyering was followed by an article he wrote on Smilja Avramov that essentially constitutes whitewashing as he labeled her a law expert and omitted everything controversial including her beliefs on the Protocols of Zion, her involvement in the Yugoslav Wars and most recently her decision to act as a defendant witness in the cases of Karadzic/Mladic. In fact, he chose to only use one source, which, in fact, doesn't mention her at all (given url).

• An update in regard to recent edits by Antidiskriminator:
• 14:00, 1 September 2012: Antidiskriminator in a section on Pavle Durisic regarding his Iron Cross: You did not give me any time to present sources before you labeled my comment as original research. That was not polite nor constructive. Here are some sources which support information that there are claims that he actually did not receive Iron Cross ... General Milan Nedić, Том 2, Stanislav Krakov Antidiskriminator presents a work by Stanislav Krakov as a source.
• 09:46, 14 October 2012: Antidiskriminator in the same section on Pavle Durisic regarding his Iron Cross: Krakov was not historian and I did not propose to use him as source nor I dispute anything you wrote about Stanislav Krakov

--— ZjarriRrethues —  16:04, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• Indeed, Antidiskriminator's indef ban on sr.wikipedia is quite instructive. PRODUCER, could you explain the conditions, which lead to the indef ban, for those of us that don't speak Serbo-Croatian?--— ZjarriRrethues —  13:32, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Comment by Gaius Claudius Nero

I have been Wikihounded by Antidiskriminator for more than a year (I considered retiring because of it) and never brought myself to reporting the constant offenses he had made against me. Below are some of what I perceived as violations which he had made against me since 2010 (out of what could be much more):

• Talk:Albanian–Venetian War (1447–1448): Here you can see a constant barrage of WP:IDHT and the flood of messages constantly repeating the same points over and over again.
• : Here he is violating WP:Battle by bringing up an irrelevant topic (Harry Hodgkinson's reliability which we had debated on other topics) in order to trap me into making an admission that the source he mentions is unreliable, even though it had never before been mentioned in the talk page.
• : Here he is again violating WP:Battle by giving me an ultimatum for what he considered original research (for something which I think is WP:Common Sense) and violates the rules of cooperation (although I later changed it the way he asked me, something I could have done much more quickly if he did not try to trap me into an ultimatum).
• : Here he is violating WP:AGF by stating that I hid sources from him (although he later apologized).
• Template talk:Campaignbox Ottoman–Albanian Wars: Here he is again violating WP:IDHT and refusing to cooperate with me even I signalled to him that I wanted to try to reach a consensus (Just so you know, I'm trying to reach a consensus with you...)
• : Here he violates WP:AGF and attacks me for a personal error, also showing blatant incivility.

Like I said, these are only a few of what could be more and they are the cases that I remember most because they are some of the earliest cases. There are many instances where he came into a talk page soon after I edited there for the FIRST time (eg. compare to and compare to ), I assume from constantly checking my contributions log (although there could of course be other ways, but I could find more examples if requested). This is what WP:HOUND says: Wikihounding is the singling out of one or more editors, and joining discussions on multiple pages or topics they may edit or multiple debates where they contribute, in order to repeatedly confront or inhibit their work. This is definitely the impression that I got from his constant confrontation on most of the pages I work on (mostly ones with the medieval history). WP:HOUND also says this: The important component of wikihounding is disruption to another user's own enjoyment of editing, or to the project generally, for no overriding reason. Although I hate to admit, the main reason I considered retiring from Misplaced Pages (even though I enjoyed it very much) was because I was constantly being Wikihounded by Antidiskriminator. Now that I see that I'm not the only one being Wikihounded, it is clear to me that a topic ban (maybe for three months which he might later be reconsidered) is the best means to rectify this situation, that is, of course, if the administrator is willing to consider it as such.--Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 20:49, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Additional comments: It is interesting that Athenean is taking part in this since he rarely ever participated in the topics which Antidiskriminator is being reported for. If I may take a moment here to describe something which I came across when responding to one of Antidiskriminator's messages to me: this diff which leads to this looks like Athenean trying to recruit Antidiskriminator for his witch-hunt of Albanian sock-puppet accounts (many of which have been proven to be false). To me, it seems obvious why Athenean is defending Antidiskrimator here (who most often sparred with Albanian editors at the time), despite rarely participating in the discussions which Antidiskriminator participated at the time. I won't state it explicitly because I believe it is self-evident.--Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 21:03, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Athenean says that I am a Wikihounder. I will fully disclose myself as I feel it is necessary: I saved these links from a long time ago in anticipation that I would file a report, but I never got around to it. If I was a true Wikihounder, I would not even include any of these and only include recent diffs. He also says I assume bad faith. I have tried to be as fair as possible (eg. I mentioned that he later apologized) and obviously, this is not entirely possible as I am a human being. (It seems like he is annoyed that I called him out, but I feel like it is necessary to show that he has a horse in this race.)--Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 23:12, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree fully with the comments of Director and endorse them. I have observed the same exact thing.--Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 23:33, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Alexikoua's "evidence" that there was a disagreement is so vaguely constructed that anybody could spin it. The topic of disagreement is also so minor that it would be hard to gain any sort of knowledge from it. Alexikoua had no significant stake in the article so he of course conceded. If he did have a stake (ie. if he was a significant editor with plenty of sources), he would be facing a mine of WP:Battle and would face the same annoyance most other editors are finding here. Furthermore, Alexikoua and Antidiskriminator had never (or rarely) disagreed with each other so he therefore faced no hostility.--Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 21:56, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Comment by Nouniquenames

To the best of my knowledge, I've had no prior interaction with the individuals involved here. Anti could use some polishing, certainly, but (to pick a complaint] above at random) unsourced information is not to stay, and without a deadline, it might stay indefinitely. I can understand the logic, at least, and it certainly wasn't common sense. I didn't see the accused battleground either. Producer seems to show that Anti disagreed about an article's assessment, which is, at best, a content dispute. It seems odd that a RM is considered disruptive, especially given the article's title at the time.

I won't take the space here to go through every point, (in part because I haven't the time,) but if those are a representative sample, I see nothing warranting the requested action, nor necessarily meeting the threshold of hounding. --Nouniquenames 04:20, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Comment by DIREKTOR

I was largely on the margins of Antidiskriminator's more recent disruptive activities, however in my experience, the user displays a very obvious pattern of POV-pushing and WP:TE. As PRODUCER pointed out above, Antidiskriminator has a daily hobby of creating WP:BATTLEGROUNDS in the form of sixteen sections or so, posted one after the other, where he conducts simultaneous POV-pushing on several topic and several talkpages at once. All singularly according to the Serbian-nationalist point of view. He has WP:WIKIHOUNDED his perceived "anti-Serbian opponents" to several articles, where he continues to simply "oppose" without regard to sources and user consensus.

The user does not edit articles, but merely argues to no end. Consequently, he also never presents specific suggestions, which could allow for a more focused debate that might actually conceivably end at some point. Its just vague, pointless quibbling day after day.

He usually has no sources, or has cherry-picked sources, or his sources are obviously biased to the point of comedy, etc.. Typically, he will post one of his myriad "complaint sections" on a talkpage, demanding some undefined change or other. Even when people arrive and basically say "go ahead, lets see what you have in mind (why aren't you editing?)" - he will actually continue to "debate" even though his edits essentially aren't opposed (cf the eight sections he started just on Talk:Chetniks, particularly this thread). Having no real support in sources, the user will typically attempt to abuse WP:DR, posting a succession of RfCs and 3Os and what not - basically trying to convince others so that he might still push unsourced nonsense into the text.

Generally speaking, the user's conduct is annoying to no end. Productive users who do actual research (like Peacemaker) are forced to deal with his brand of Balkans-nationalist WP:TE and endless disruption day in day out, farcical RfC after farcical RfC - instead of contributing to the project. He never gives up, regardless of how unsupported his position is. When policy is pointed to him, he calls it a "personal attack", basically ignores it, and just continues on - e.g. his ignoring this report as well. For months now the user has been posting one section after another on Talk:Pavle Đurišić, again and again and again, "complaint" after "complaint" in endless succession, one more biased and baseless than the next. Frankly, if the user is not sanctioned now for this wide-scale disruption - I can easily see this sort of nonsense continuing on indefinitely. -- Director (talk) 21:21, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Comment by Nick-D

On 19 September Antidiskriminator reposted sections of some of my comments at WP:RSN at Talk:Pavle Đurišić in such a way that they appeared to suggest that I supported their position, when in fact I did not. This was shortly before they were warned of the Eastern European editing restrictions, and when I confronted him or her about on 24 September they apologised. As far as I was concerned the matter was concluded, with no harm done other than further hardening my aversion to offering an opinion on this kind of dispute. However, I'm surprised to see that this fraudulent post attributed to me is still on the article's talk page (I actually thought it had been removed). Nick-D (talk) 08:50, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Comment by Fut.Perf.

From my own experience with Antidiskriminator on some Kosovo-related pages, and from observing him from a distance on a number of other "ethnic" troublespots (mostly Serbian-Albanian), I share the view that A. is a textbook case of a tendentious editor and needs to be restricted. It's maybe not so much any one particular set of offensive edits I'd point to, but just the overall picture of the "travelling circus": an endless succcession of tedious, unproductive squabbling, always related to the same predictable agenda issues. For concrete examples, I find Direktor's links to the Pavle Ðurišić talkpage instructive. Talk:Pavle Đurišić#Iron cross controversy is a particular illustrative section, showing an infuriating obtuseness in repeatedly failing to substantiate an alleged NPOV concern when asked to do so. After making an unsourced claim, Antidiskriminator spent three posts over ten days squabbling over the term "original research", until finally beginning to address the obvious issue that he hadn't provided sources to back up his claim; he never proceeded to explaining what point those (foreign-language) sources were actually making. The section a bit further down, related to the same issue (Talk:Pavle Đurišić#Philip Cohen's 'Serbia's Secret War) is equally illustrative. Can't act as an uninvolved admin on this one, but would certainly recommend sanctions of some sort. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:10, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Actually Antidiskriminator did provide sources with quotes and their translation at the end of the iron cross thread. These remained unreplied it seems. I agree that his initial approach was unproductive. Tijfo098 (talk) 14:39, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

No. He did that only after seeing Fut. Perf's comment. --◅ PRODUCER (TALK) 14:44, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

You're right; I should have checked the chronology more carefully. There's indeed a six-week gap between Antidiskriminator's last post there (Oct 13) and Peacemaker67's last post above it (Sep 28). Tijfo098 (talk) 14:48, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Comment by Tijfo098

Looking at the threads indicated by FPaS I think Peacemaker67 deserves and equal restriction. He repeatedly brushed off several RS/N discussions that brought in question (w/academic reviews) the source Peacemaker67 was relying upon (Cohen). That such a source is used in a FA only shows how pathetic Misplaced Pages really is. If one side can use yellow journalism in articles then so can the other. And don't say it was published by an academic publisher. It's an obscure university press publishing someone with no degree in history (and who found real success in Croatia). See the recently closed thread we had on User:JCAla, who was heavily relying on a similar book for a comparison. Tijfo098 (talk) 15:31, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

It would not be correct to say Antidiskriminator was wrong in his demands and "complaints" every single time: that would be quite an achievement. When someone posts dozens upon dozens of threads pushing in the same nationalist-POV direction, one or two are bound to have some kind of real support. I myself agreed that he might have a point several times, including the Cohen issue. But equally as such cases are drops in a sea of WP:TE are Peacemaker's possible errors of the above sort only drops in the sea of excellent, diligent, and thoroughly-researched contribution on a very difficult and obscure topic. Whereas antid is there merely to squabble and complain, continuously and without end, Peacemaker is the guy who's hard work and extensive contribs he's criticizing.

When someone harasses and hounds you all over the project, impeding your efforts with incessant, pointless, malicious bickering, it's hard to view the 27th complaint in good faith. I've often remarked on the tendency to simply "block everybody" or treat everyone as equally "guilty", but to treat these two users in such a way might be a new low in that regard. Their behavior and value to the project are not even comparable. That's my take anyway. -- Director (talk) 16:24, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

I think part of the problem here is Misplaced Pages's inherently flawed system of "review". Basically Antidiskriminator was raising talk page points about perceived flaws in the article, while Peacemaker67 was complaining (sometimes using colorful phrases like "Blind Freddy" as in this thread) that Antidiskriminator is not editing the article. Outside of Misplaced Pages, a reviewer will not edit your paper. And in the few occasions that outside opinion was solicited (as in that thread I linked), both Antidiskriminator and Peacemaker67 were found to advance statements not supported by the sources cited (cf. WP:3O provided by User:Gigs there). Perhaps in the overall picture one is more at fault than the other, but in this article, I don't see why one should be sanctioned and the other not. Tijfo098 (talk) 20:47, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Your point is academic. This is not outside WP, this IS WP and policies and norms of WP apply. Peacemaker67 (talk) 01:20, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Here's a less academic point. Read Talk:Ante_Pavelić#Unbeliveable_and_Laughable. There Peacemaker67 supports the inclusion of a source which says that "There was not even the slightest indication of antisemitism in the Ustaša ". I fully support a topic ban on him at this point. Tijfo098 (talk) 23:29, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

And speaking of the regulars in this area: the bio that DIREKTOR + PRODUCER produced for Jozo Tomasevich was laughable, by the way. Stanford University in San Francisco, eh? Nobody caught that for 6 months. Gives you pause about Misplaced Pages's readers. Oh, and he didn't actually teach at Stanford. But according to Peacemaker67 he called Ante Pavelic with the appellation "Dr." Hmm.... Tijfo098 (talk) 23:51, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Now just wait a second. Firstly, I can't imagine what that has to do with anything. Secondly, if you're looking for random irregularities in the "Balkalns Articles" I suggest you set aside a few months for the search alone. Thirdly, I can't remember anymore but I'm reasonably certain people didn't actually make things up there: at best those are good faith errors, but also, here's a link from stanford.edu describing Tomasevich as "Stanford's professor" . (If you think that the location of Stanford is general knowledge over here half-way across the world - think again :). We're more acquainted with places like the peaceful university town of Sorbonne..)

Finally, as I believe this is a 💕, I don't think anyone could possibly be topic banned for advocating the reliability of a scholarly source with some considerable peer review support, not without an action appeal anyway. I recommend Tijfo, that you view antid's behavior on the whole, rather than just this Cohen business, which seems to have struck a cord? The matter was discussed at WP:RSN, you don't propose to sanction everyone who didn't oppose Cohen's inclusion? (btw, I do agree that he probably isn't RS, now that I've had time to refresh my memory, but being wrong isn't something you sanction people for - as opposed to a pattern of nationalist POV-pushing and TE). That's it from me, I'm off to the islands and will need to declare a wikibreak :)

P.s. That Cohen quote is very much out of context. He is there referring to the early years of the Ustaše, when they were under Mussolini's wing. At that time Mussolini didn't express much anti-semitic sentiment either. And Cohen is Jewish after all, kind of hard to imagine him excusing anti-semitisim. -- Director (talk) 00:32, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

With respect Tijfo098, can we try to keep this on topic and in context? You have so far raised out-of-context content issues on Ante Pavelic and seriously misrepresented the discussions at that. You have also seriously misrepresented and exaggerated discussions on RSN and at Pavle Djurisic about Cohen. My understanding of this place on WP is that you need to try to focus your discussion on the behaviour of Antidiskriminator that is the subject of the report, not obscure matters with off-topic discussions of my work on Ante Pavelic, where Antidiskriminator has yet to appear. If you think that my conduct on Ante Pavelic warrants a report, please go ahead, but this thread is clearly not the place. Peacemaker67 (talk) 01:20, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Just to set the record straight the quote that Tijfo098 is mocking and even advocating topic-banning Peacemaker over is actually from Ivo Goldstein and a part of a work from the Jewish Studies at the Central European University. This is what's really "laughable" here. --◅ PRODUCER (TALK) 16:33, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Admins should note the WP:BATTLE conduct of the DIREKTOR - PRODUCER - Peacemaker troika, who repeatedly bring issues unrelated to article improvement to Talk:Jozo Tomasevich. Tijfo098 (talk) 09:20, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

I say you come here with unclean hands. You brought issues unrelated to this AE report to this forum, which was completely inappropriate. Peacemaker67 (talk) 09:33, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Comment by Alexikoua

I really don't see anything remotely actionable according to this limited ammount of evidence provided against Antidiskriminator. In fact Antidiskriminator is one of the few editors that strictly follows the guidelines, especially about Balkan related topics. Although in the past I had some minor content disputes with him, I was surprised with the way he approaches the various issues and welcomes any third part opinion.

If one Balkan editor should receive some kind of restriction that's off course not him.Alexikoua (talk) 12:59, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

For example here ] I was firmly against the creation of Independent Albania article by Antit., nevertheless he was kind enough to answer this ]. Although I was still against the creation of this article Antint. is one of the few editors that stays calm and avoids to make things hot.Alexikoua (talk) 17:51, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Result concerning User:Antidiskriminator

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Mooretwin

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Hearfourmewesique

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user

Hearfourmewesique (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Hearfourmewesique (talk) 15:53, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Sanction being appealed

Topic ban from the subject of Israeli-Palestinian conflict, imposed at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive104#Hearfourmewesique

Administrator imposing the sanction

NuclearWarfare (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

Statement by Hearfourmewesique

It has been almost 10 months since the topic ban, and it was not violated once. I have also embraced a much more cool headed approach to this topic as a whole. Please give me a chance to prove that I can be a valuable editor.

• Note to Tijfo098: it really has nothing to do with ARBPIA, which I have been fully respecting ever since the topic ban. Aside from the fact that I've been politely pointing out ad hominem attacks and expressing support for the existence of an article about persecution by Muslims in a civil manner, is there anything you perceive as "behavior issues"? Hearfourmewesique (talk) 18:21, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

@Tznkai - :I will look for it a little later, have to go soon. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 18:22, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• Remark: I've been having a hard time with my internet connection lately, hopefully will have access in two days (it's never steady since I'm a frequent traveler) so I can look into my history. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 03:19, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
• To Tijfo098: Volunteer Marek was consistent in making sure to smear almost each and every "keep" vote, using borderline personal attacks at times, in repeated – and unmasked – attempts to discredit each voter (to quote WP:NPA: "Comment on content, not on the contributor."), as well as reasserting the closing admins with notes restating the obvious, in a manner that can be perceived only as excessively persuasive. Examples: While the expression "in a manner worthy of the finest of spammers" is quite tongue-in-cheek, it's still far from violating WP:CIVIL. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 03:36, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Statement by NuclearWarfare

I'm fine with whatever other admins want to decide, though I personally would recommend against it. NW (Talk) 18:16, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Statement by (involved editor 1)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Hearfourmewesique

Was he topic banned? I never noticed . Tijfo098 (talk) 18:06, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

What is has to do with WP:ARBPIA area?--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 18:07, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Behavior. Tijfo098 (talk) 18:09, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

@H: "in a manner worthy of finest of spammers" is not a polite expression. And in the same conversation you complain about "the obvious and borderline ad hominem remarks" presumably said by someone else. WP:KETTLE. Tijfo098 (talk) 21:33, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Result of the appeal by Hearfourmewesique

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Hearfourmewesique, can you please link to examples of you working well on Misplaced Pages in the last six months, especially in highly collaborative ways?--Tznkai (talk) 16:41, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

• Two thoughts occur (my remarks on the AE report that led to this ban are worth reading for context). One is that an indefinite topic ban, though not infinite, is at the more severe end of the spectrum of sanctions we impose at AE (and, having just re-read the original AE report) I'm as convinced now as I was then that the ban is just), so I'm inclined against lifting it before a year has elapsed. The second is that I'd like to know how Hearfourmewesique thinks their presence in the topic area could be of benefit. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:26, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Still waiting on examples, but I see no purpose to a minimum sentencing attitude if there is any good reason to lift a restriction. We're not serving justice or anything like that.--Tznkai (talk) 01:58, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

• It is now a week since Tznkai asked Hearfourmewesique asked to 'link to examples of ... working well on Misplaced Pages in the last six months.' HJMitchell made a similar request. Since no examples have been provided, I suggest that the appeal be declined. It does not make sense for Hearfour to open an appeal if he is unable to follow up with answers. EdJohnston (talk) 15:48, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
• Unless Hearfour posts within the next 48 hours or so, I agree that this should be closed. T. Canens (talk) 17:14, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Factocop

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Factocop

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Thryduulf (talk) 16:02, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Factocop (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/CASENAME#SECTION

This all relates to WP:TROUBLES, specifically the discretionary sanctions under which user:Factocop was topic banned for 3 months on 25 September .

Also, ARBCOM attached 2 conditions to his unblocking on 6 September notification at user talk:Factocop (I haven't found on-wiki discussion leading to the unblock but will provide a link if I subsequently do).

1. "That Factocop is restricted to editing only from one account, and always when logged in."
2. "That Factocop does not use the revert tool (or any variation of it) at all - not even once, and not even to revert clear vandalism..."

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

It is alleged that 46.7.113.111 (talk) is Factocop (talk · contribs). If this is correct then

• All that ip's contributions in October 2012 are in violation of unblock condition 1
• All that ip's contributions to the main, talk and Misplaced Pages talk namespaces violate the topic ban
• , , and are violations of unblock condition 2.

For background and the raising of allegations, reading the discussions at Talk:Derry#Requested move:Derry to Londonderry. Talk:Derry#Requested move permalink is probably the easiest. The requested moves and this user's comments on them are tendentious and time-wasting.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

My understanding is that prior warnings are not required for the unblock conditions.
I am unable to find a specific notification of the standard discretionary sanctions, but as Factocop has been sanctioned under them as recently as last month he cannot fail to be aware of them.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This all hinges on whether 46.7.113.111 (talk) is or is not Factocop (talk · contribs). At the help desk it was suggested I make a report here in the first instance rather than requesting a separate SPI.. Factocop has been proven as a sockpuppeteer in the past, see Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Factocop/Archive. The allegations are based on behavioural evidence (partly enunciated at Talk:Derry#Requested move e.g. (before discussion was moved). CodSaveTheQueen (talk · contribs), a proven sockpuppet of Factocop, was disruptive on a previous proposal to rename the Derry article to Londonderry, see the collapsed section at Talk:Derry#Possible moratorium.

I will place a link to this request at Talk:Derry to alert editors there. Thryduulf (talk) 16:02, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• Factocop:
• 46.7.113.111:

Discussion concerning Factocop

Statement by Factocop

Comments by others about the request concerning Factocop

Just to say I am not Factocop, and this seems to be an attempt to derail a discussion. I have checked and Factocop is listed as RETIRED. I also checked an archived report . Suggestions are that this user operates from London. I think the WHOIS function will perhaps show that I am not from London. I doubt Factocop would of moved to my location to avoid a wikipedia blocking but fair play to the lad if he has.46.7.113.111 (talk) 16:41, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

• Arbcom members don't often comment at ARBE. To get a CU, I would suggest someone files at SPI. IRWolfie- (talk) 17:19, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
• Additional behavioural evidence can be seen here with his socks and here as Factocop, notice the use of the underscore in editors names something which this IP did also with this edit Mo ainm~Talk 17:44, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but without the odd underscore, a user name just looks like a spelling mistake. Soz. Wont use an underscore again mo, ainm high, I will.46.7.113.111 (talk) 21:28, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Regarding the IPs geolocating to the UK, it should be borne in mind that 109.154.199.195 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) was from Northern Ireland. Travel between the two parts of the island is easier than between the two parts of the UK. Other than the novelty of the UPC address being in a different jurisdiction, the topic area, style, diction and interaction with others shouts duck. RashersTierney (talk) 02:19, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

• So it's easier for him to move about Northern Ireland and the Republic but he'd much rather take expensive flights to Great Britain in order to edit Misplaced Pages? I'm not buying that explaination as why would any person after being blocked from a certain IP range, shell out money on flights in order to move to another part of the country to continue disruption which they'd probably know would be reverted anyway? So I don't think that the ip is Factocop. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 06:40, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
  • I think moving between the island of Great Britain and Ireland just to get a different IP range is rather significantly unlikely. However, travel between the two for the purposes of work, family, recreation, etc. is very common. All of the relevant contributions from this IP have been in October this year and none show any of the hallmarks of a new user. Thryduulf (talk) 10:12, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
    • The fact this IP just happened to appear in topics that Factocop was active in before he got blocked gives a strong hint that circumstantially at least this IP is him and he should have further sanctions placed upon him for breeching those he was already on. Also we must not forget that broadband IP locations do not always match where the user actually is and depends on the service providers exchange in use. I'm using my computer in Northern Ireland but my IP will trace many times to England. Mabuska 16:58, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
      • It is also possible to mask your IP as something different by using an appropriately located proxy server - say in this case one based in the Republic of Ireland. We also do have older most likely IP socks of Factocop from this old discussion to compare with - 81.187.71.75 and 84.93.157.59 both of which geolocate to England. Also add in this IP 87.113.26.186. All share common articles and discussions of interest i.e. - Eglinton, Giant's Causeway, things to do with Londonderry etc. etc. Yet those 3 IPs locate to different parts of England. We could always add {{IPsock|Factocop|blocked=yes}} to this IP's user page? Mabuska 17:21, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
        • The anonymous editor in question is not using an anonymising proxy. He or she is in the Republic of Ireland. The question is whether the behavioural evidence is compelling enough for us to conclude that Factocop has travelled or moved to this new location. I humbly submit that it will take rather a lot more than "the IP edits the same topic" to determine there is a connection. You need to make a more detailed submission of appropriate evidence, which ought to answer questions like: Did Factocop behave as this IP does? Do they push a similar edit or agenda? Is their writing style the same? And so on. The AE administrators may want to refer this matter to WP:SPI for investigation by a more experienced hand; socking is not really AE's area of skill (nor, apparently, that of the other commentators here). HTH, AGK 17:39, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Result concerning Factocop

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• The IP in question geolocates to Dublin, Ireland; someone who knows where Factocop has operated out of could answer whether or not a connection is plausible/likely. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 17:04, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
• The IPs in the SPI archive all came from the UK. T. Canens (talk) 22:32, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

• Checkuser comment: It is technically  Possible that the IP discussed in this complaint is operated by Factocop, but I could not make a more firm assertion of socking at this point. The IP should probably be blocked as an obvious sock of somebody (though not provably of Factocop), but I do not think checkuser data supports action against Factocop unless there is additional, behavioural evidence that proves a connection. I leave the question of whether this IP unarguably behaves like Factocop to the enforcement administrators. AGK 11:10, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

• This looks a lot like griefing by one of the longer term sockmasters. The arguments are similar to Factocop's (but aso many others'); for me its the response here to Mo Anim that raises an eyebrow. I'm wondering if this might be the sockmaster who was egging Factocop on (and hounding Mo Anim), rather than Factocop himself: see User:Carnival Fred and User:Borundi 499--Cailil 11:48, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

  Upon looking in detail, I have to agree this looks like an unrelated sockmaster pulling a fast one. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 15:52, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

• AGK is correct that the IP should be blocked regardless. On the evidence before us, I agree that there is not enough evidence for us to conclude that the IP is Factocop. /wave my SPI clerk hat T. Canens (talk) 17:28, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Africangenesis

   Chaos theory
   Che Guevara
   Conscription in Germany
   Counterpoint
   Denialism
   Enumerative induction
   Ericsson cycle
   Evolution
   Fallacy
   False dilemma
   File talk:John Quiggin enumerative induction.png
   Fluid ounce
   Health effects of tea
   Intelligent design
   Kaempferol
   Low-energy vehicle
   MDMA
   Melatonin
   Near-Earth object
   New Zealand
   Novel
   Ozone depletion
   Plug-in hybrid
   Postmodernity
   Russell Humphreys
   Sodium benzoate
   Solar variation
   Specified complexity
   Tea --Africangenesis (talk) 14:33, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Paul Magnussen, Sirswindon, and InigmaMan

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Paul Magnussen, Sirswindon, and InigmaMan

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Tijfo098 (talk) 09:42, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

• Paul Magnussen (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Sirswindon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• InigmaMan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I'm filing this as a single request because there is little difference in their behavior and position. In some cases, one editor deletes content and another from this group then presents long argumentation in support of deletion on the talk page.

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

R&I discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

The case comes down to removal of material cited from secondary, academic sources, followed by long diatribes posted on the talk page which seldom address any particular content, except in their arbitrary conclusion(s). I invite admin to read the whole talk page, but here are some examples:

User:Paul Magnussen:

1. block-delete with edit summary "Removing unreferenced POV material" (which was not unreferenced) supported by the following line of argumentation:
2. Furthermore, the terms "extreme right" and "extreme left" have become so confused and emotionally loaded and to become effectively meaningless.
3. 'Right' (in this sense) is a POV term, now reduced to little more than a term of abuse
4. his politics are irrelevant as what he had for breakfast
5. I haven't noticed you leaping up and down about Leon Kamin or Stephen Jay Gould, whose politics apparently did dictate their science…
6. Supposing that your characterisation of these publications is correct and that Prof. Eysenck did actually write for them (as opposed to allowing publication of previously-written material), have you considered the possibility that he would write for anyone who paid his fee? Apparently not.
7. What would you say the are characteristics of the Extreme Right? Beating up the opposition, refusing to allow them to speak, threatening their children?
8. His scientific views are not in dispute. All that's been produced on his political views is name-calling and unsupported inference.
9. calling anyone "right-wing" is POV ipso facto.
10. You said (above) that we don't define terms. Could you tell me where to find the definitions we're using for "far right" and/or "extreme right"? They seem to me to be weasel words — specifically, just vague terms of abuse.
11. Another removal of content, presumably explained by:
12. 6Kb of text. Apparently, the argument is that although Eysenck has written several books about the genetics-intelligence link, we can't exemplify or discuss their content in his biography, even when secondary sources do that. Go figure. This long post also appears to be written with the intent to support the deletion of material performed by Sirswindon in diff #8 below.

User:Sirswindon:

1. Deletion of material based on secondary sources as "hearsay"
2. repeat
3. claims the ref fails WP:V Text in original (German) is "In der April-Ausgabe der rechtsextremen Nationalzeitung von 1990 schreibt Eysenck einen Artikel, in dem er Sigmund Freud der Verschlagenheit und mangelnder Aufrichtigkeit zeiht, wobei zugleich auf Freuds jüdische Herkunft verwiesen wird."
4. Pure denialism or more sophistry? You decide. Perhaps the author-publisher relationship is not a relationship.
5. Appeals to Misplaced Pages definition of right-wing, just like the SPA InigmaMan (see its own section below).
6. False dichotomy: "All or None".
7. Advances his own prophecy.
8. Deletes content claiming it's not in the source. Quote given here. Offered chance to self-revert there too. Not taken insofar.

User:InigmaMan (a WP:SPA):

1. "Eysenck did not publish articles, the newspaper published them"
2. Red herring. The article at the time did no say Eysenck was Far-right. It said "He wrote the preface to the book "Das unvergängliche Erbe" by Pierre Krebs, a far-right French writer, which was published by Krebs' Thule-Seminar."
3. Quotes the Misplaced Pages article on far-right as an WP:OR argument to disprove what the sources said.
4. Continues the same argument.

-- Tijfo098 (talk) 09:42, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

And Sirswindon continues:

1. deletes the passage again
2. explained by my IQ somehow?

-- Tijfo098 (talk) 01:41, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Paul Magnussen, Sirswindon, and InigmaMan

Statement by Paul Magnussen, Sirswindon, and InigmaMan

Paul Magnussen

Not much to add. I'm fairly familiar with Eysenck's work. I've tried to keep the article in line with Misplaced Pages principles, notably Reliable Sources and no POV material. Distortions of fact and name-calling are (it seems to me) not Reliable.

As secondary objective, I've also tried to keep the article balanced and to an appropriate size.

Of course, I'm not saying I haven't made any mistakes, although I've tried not to. Paul Magnussen (talk) 17:30, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps I should also add that I am not a sock-puppet: this is my real name, and I can provide evidence of this should it be required. Paul Magnussen (talk) 17:35, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Paul Magnussen, Sirswindon, and InigmaMan

Hi, Im also involved in this discussion. I'm fully agree with user Tijfo098! If you want an overview about the issue see: here. Please also have a look at this ANI. --WSC 10:20, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

• This appears to be a case of tag teaming to remove properly sourced material from the biography of Eysenck for spurious reasons. Mathsci (talk) 05:33, 15 October 2012 (UTC) (A second apparently unrelated group of editors (YvelinesFrance, Zeromus1 and The Devil's Advocate) appears to be tag teaming on Talk:Race and intelligence. Similar issues of meatpuppetry/sockpuppetry apply there. The first two named accounts seem to have resonances with previously site-banned or topic-banned editors.)

YvelinesFrance, Zeromus1 appear to me to be the same editor (and if I'm not mistaken, when this possibility was raised on the Race and Intelligence talk page the response was the standard "why are you asking this, let's argue about other stuff instead", rather than a denial. There was another account with similar interests around but there's so many sock puppets on this article and topic area that I've gotten lost and I'm too lazy right now to go digging again. Volunteer Marek  05:37, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

What completely spurious claims. Volunteer Marek accuses of sock-puppetry anyone who doesn't think the exact same way he does. YvelinesFrance (talk) 23:10, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

• Math, please do not accuse me of tag-teaming or meat-puppetry unless you can provide strong evidence for such a claim.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 22:26, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

The Devil's Advocate should address me as "Mathsci", not by a kindergarten shortening. His edits do appear to be supporting the tendentious edits of YvelinesFrance. Those edits are as problematic as were those of TrevelyanL85A2, now indefinitely blocked. Here is an example, just one amongst many. The Devil's Advocate continues to ignore the advice of senior administrators and arbitrators. He acted as a proxy (sometimes called a "meatpuppet") for the DeviantArt team for close on two months, during which time he was in contact with at least one of them off-wiki. How much has changed? Mathsci (talk) 00:20, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

• That comment from France was clearly inappropriate, but I am not sure what it has to do with me. I wasn't even aware of that until you mentioned it. As to the other stuff, would you please leave me alone? You keep showing up at noticeboards to go after me and it is becoming quite tiresome. I wasn't even mentioned here until you showed up and this case had nothing to do with the dispute on the race and intelligence article.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 00:49, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

The two sets of events both touch WP:ARBR&I and are similar, which is why they have both been mentioned here. The Devil's Advocate chose to position himself in this particular topic area in July and a large number of his edits were geared to seeking sanctions on me while encouraging and acting as apologist for an attack-only account. In those circumstances it is hard to understand why he is now playing the victim. But, much worse than that, he has chosen to misrepresen my edits in a completely unethical way. A 7 year old child could look through my recent edits and, without guidance from an adult, deduce that I have just undergone major emergency heart surgery. I have not been editing wikipedia. It is time for The Devil's Advocate to take a reality check: he should look at the editing history of YvelinesFrance (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and see why there is a general problematic pattern. The same applies to Zeromus1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), starting with his very first edit. Mathsci (talk) 03:10, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

• I am not sure what you think was misrepresenting your edits. You have been repeatedly showing up at noticeboards to push for action against me and you have been using pretty much the same arguments you are using here, while I only ever suggested that you be admonished for your misconduct in a single discussion about a specific case. Just because health concerns have meant you have not been able to go after me recently does not mean it is a misrepresentation to say you have been doing that.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 04:43, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

The Devil's Advocate has just been told that I am recovering from major open heart surgery. Despite that, he is still attempting to suggest something completely different, another of his grotesque conpiracy theories, in direct contradiction with my unfortunate real life circumstances. He is editing unethically as part of some kind of morbid WP:GAME. Captain Occam was site-banned for trying to cast doubt on the serious medical condition of Orangemarlin. The Devil's Advocate is doing the same with me and I would not be surprised if he also finds himself indefinitely site-banned as a consequence. His record in WP:ARBR&I has been appalling (harassment, enabling of site-banned and topic-banned users, wikilawyering with arbitrators). With these wholly unethical suggestions, he has now crossed a line, whether his editing was the original cause of this report or not. Mathsci (talk) 05:08, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

What on earth are you talking about? I don't see how you could reasonably interpret my comments that way.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 14:48, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

• This whole things smacks of an attempt to silence disagreeable users. It's funny that when the other side of the debate 'tag teams' nothing is claimed, however when a few editors with contrarian opinions appear, suddenly it's a conspiracy. Hopefully this is thrown out. Completely meritless. YvelinesFrance (talk) 23:13, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Because that's how this topic area has been for a long time now. As soon as one set of sock/meat puppets gets banned, the users involved just turn around and create another set. And over and over and over again. I notice you're not even bothering to deny your connections to Zeromus1 (or whatever other accounts there might be). Volunteer Marek  23:21, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

It's a completely unfounded claim with no evidence. There is no reason for me to even refute such ad hominem attacks. YvelinesFrance (talk) 23:36, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

At any rate, that is a question for SPI, not AE.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 00:01, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

It's a question of neat sourceswork. First the sources been doubt. Some of the sources I presented were in german. It's okay for me to doubt them. But they don't even doubted the german sources. They claimed all sources estimated Eysenck as far-right supporter, and there are several sources how do that, are not reliable. A reproach beyond good and evil. When other authors supported the sources they begin to downplay the statements of the sources. The peak of this activities was to change the heading from "Alleged relationships with far right groups" to "Relationship with right-wing groups". A description was not supported by only one single source. The argumentation is nothing but sophistry. If you really want to understand theirs procedure, you have to read the hole talk-page. It begins with the blanket denying of ALL sources to admire in archive of the talk-page. And ends with the downplaying of statements of these and other sources.

My favorite counterargument is: "I personally knew Eysenck for over 40 years," (but never take notic that he supported far-right groups), by user sirswindon.

The several sources make a clear statement about Eysenck and the far-right. Of course you can dabate specific statements in the text of the article. But you can't debate the essence of the sources. That's the point a POV-War begins and the balance of our article is endangered. Especially in this issue (race & intelligence).

Of course it's possible to have a debatte for the next years till one side showes signs of fatigue or give up. But it would be better to have a serious discussion about facts and not about (I personally know Eysenck for 40 y. and I know better than those socialist sources) fiction. It's possible to have a sources-based discussion. If anybody wants to. --WSC 06:51, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Appeal against thread hijacking. I understand there is a dispute on another R&I article, but it doesn't seem to (currently) involve any of the editors involved in the Eysenck article (unless someone has discovered who InigmaMan is, but I haven't seen that above). I suggest that a different report be filed about the YvelinesFrance, Zeromus1 and The Devil's Advocate issue. Thanks. Tijfo098 (talk) 07:42, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

That seems fair enough. The Devil's Advocate did not like my parenthetic remark. Mathsci (talk) 10:22, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Result concerning Paul Magnussen, Sirswindon, and InigmaMan

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• At the moment I don't see anything that AE should do. InigmaMan is an SPA and might be a sock, but has not edited Misplaced Pages since 2 October. On 15 October there was almost an edit war between Tjfo098 and Sirswindon regarding inclusion of a quote from Barnett, but that now seems to have quiesced. I was expecting to see a terrible article that was full of charges and countercharges, given the tendency of R&I matters to unhinge people's judgment. But now that I actually look at the Hans Eysenck article I feel it is reasonably balanced. It gives a fair hearing to some views of Eysenck that appear to be out of the mainstream. I suggest that this AE request be closed with no action. EdJohnston (talk) 15:40, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Zeromus1 & The Devil's Advocate

User making enforcement request

• Mathsci (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Users against whom sanctions are being requested

• Zeromus1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• The Devil's Advocate (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

recently enacted WP:ARBR&I motion concerning enabling edits by banned editors ()

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. Trolling IP socks of Echigo mole blocked at WP:SPI
2. The Devil's Advocate declares people should chat to TrevelyanL85A2
3. Zeromus1's reaction to Echigo mole's trolling
4. Zeromus1 decides he can enable the trolling even after being told it's a malicious wikihounder and that I am recovering from open heart surgery
5. Zeromus1 refers to Echigo mole as "someone commenting in his user talk space" knowing full well this is the banned editor Echigo mole. He invites The Devil's Advocate to join him in an RfC/U on me. He knows I am acutely ill.
6. The Devil's Advocate himself threatens to open an RfC/U on me on behalf of the AE banned editor TrevelyanL85A2, having received an email from TrevelyanL85A2 requesting that he do so following TrevelyanL85A2's block.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. One of several warnings to Zeromus1
2. The Devil's Advocate has been warned on multiple occasions by arbitrators and senior adminitrstaors about his conduct vis-a-vis TrevelyanL85A2 and Echigo mole. He has ignored all those warnings. Here is a latest example from User talk:MastCell.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The Devil's Advocate has created screeds of problematic edits on the arbcom amendment and clarification page. He has acted as a proxy editor for TrevelyanL85A2 despite multiple warnings from arbitrators and administrators, which he has obstinately ignored,. His edits have essentially involved harassing me in an irrational and persistent way. He has applied his own wild and untenable conspiracy theories to me in place of existing wikipedia policy. He has suggested starting a bogus RfC/U involving me on behalf of the AE banned editor TrevelyanL85A2, after receieving an email from him. He has encouraged other editors to consort with TrevelyanL85A2 against wikipedia policy. Zeromus1 received a trolling email today from an IP sock of Echigo mole. After gradually working out who was the perpetrator, I scored through Echigo mole's trolling edits. Zeromus1 is not a new user as his first edit indicates and he has not yet given any coherent account of why he has gravitated towards WP:ARBR&I. Having read the mischievous trolling of Echigo mole on his talk page, he decided to act on it and, with barely two months of editing under his belt and aware that I am recovering from open heart surgery, decided to enable the wikhounder by subjecting me to an RfC/U. Apart from enabling Echigo mole's trolling and further endangering my health. he has given no coherent reason why he should act on behalf of the troll, who is malicious and dishonest. The arbitration committee has recently been shown an anonymous email sent throught the wikipedia email system which has equally malicious content. It is unclear of the connection between these events. The motion concering Echigo mole and other banned editors was put forward to stop editors causing needless distress and playing silly games. Please could the discretionary sanctions now be put into force?

There has been a history of deception amongst suppsedly "new" accounts. Boothello claimed his interest in R&I resulted from doing an undergraduate course in psychology. That story was accidentally spoiled when Boothello included the IRC identifier "ixerin" of Ferahgo the Assassin in one of his posts. Similarly Yfever was apparently styled as an editor from New Zealand, hence interested in James R. Flynn and hence R&I. Yfever, however, has edited logged off from a Californian IP. Zerosum1's first edit was to give Yfever advice on a deleted fork article. Zerosum1's wish to start an RfC/U on me because of Echigo mole's suggestion is completely within the modus operandi of the DeviantArt crowd. After all SightWatcher, presumably aided by Captain Occam and Ferahgo the Assassin, prepared a splendid RfC/U on WeijiBaikeBianje which had the required effect. Why not try the same out on Mathsci? Never mind any issues of health or ethics, when there is a score to settle. That was also the message in the "poison pen" wikipedia email I received, that was immediately forwarded to arbcom-l.

The Devil's Advocate is a poor wikilawyer. He has already wasted copious amounts of time with statements promoting his own offensive and madcap conspiracy theories. These have been a thin cover for sustained but baseless attacks on me, which started in July 2012 with extraordinary statements of support on wikipediocracy for Captain Occam and his team of helpers. It is no different here. While not restoring the comments of the sock troll Echiigo mole, Zeromus1 has treated them as if they had been made by a third party editor in good standing, not by a pernicious sock troll, as is the case. Zeromus1 has proposed an RfC/U which is not only unwarranted but malicious: it is cycnical disruption proposed by two banned editors (Echigo mole and TrvelyanL85A2). There is little doubt in my mind that Zeromus1's editing history, which in particular includes stalking of my edits to WikiProject Cities, marks him out as some form of sockpuppet. The same seems to be true of YvelinesFrance (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), who as mentioned in the previous report, has extreme views within WP:ARBR&I that were most offensively expressed on User talk:Roscelese. The Devil's Advocate has been uncircumspect about the editing history of both these accounts. Instead he has chosen to align himself in a WP:TAG TEAM with them on Talk:Race and intelligence. Tag teaming and proxy editing have been examined in both the original case and the review. If The Devil's Advocate misinterprets those findings (as he done consistently with the motion), that is his own affair. Similarly enabling a creepy and malicious wikistalker (Echigo mole) or encouraging others to act as proxies for an AE banned editor (TrevelyanL85A2) are both flagrant attempts to find loopholes in the remedies to the original case, the review and the subsequent motion. Despite The Devil's Advocate glorification of TrevelyanL85A2 as some kind of martyr, TrevelyanL85A2's edits prior to his block showed that his editing had degenerated to that of an attack-only account, determined to exploit every possible loophole to make mischief. (This is certainly not the first website from which TrevelyanL85A2 has been banned for inappropriate conduct.) As far as editing topics within WP:ARBR&I is concerned, WP:NOTHERE applies to both Zeromus1 and The Devil's Advocate. Aside from unresolved issues of sockpuppetry, both have attempted to harass me without reason whilst both being completely aware that I am in an acute medical condition. Zeromus1 has done so as a proxy/enabler for a community banned wikihounder (Echigo mole) and The Devil's Advocate as a proxy for a AE banned disruption-account (TrevelyanL85A2). Neither has been editing in good faith.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Zeromus1 & The Devil's Advocate

Statement by Zeromus1

Statement by The Devil's Advocate

The restriction Mathsci is citing only applies to restoring reverted edits by banned editors connected to this topic area. I have restored no such edits, nor has Zeromus as far I as I know. Mathsci is completely misrepresenting the nature of that restriction. His characterization of my actions is likewise so obscenely distorted that it would take a voluminous amount of material to point out of every single error. Suffice to say, the cited diffs clearly do not say what he suggests they say and in a response on my own talk page I said I do not want to pursue an RfC/U at this time. This request is completely frivolous.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 03:35, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning Zeromus1 & The Devil's Advocate

• comment - this exchange between me and Zerosum1 may be interesting -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 04:09, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Result concerning Zeromus1 & The Devil's Advocate

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

WP:MOS sanctions

Dicklyon

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Dicklyon

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Apteva (talk) 04:53, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Dicklyon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Article titles and capitalisation#All parties reminded

The talk page of a guideline is not the place to make accusations. It is ironic to accuse someone of being disruptive by being disruptive.

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 13 October 2012 Section was inappropriately added to the guideline talk page. I deleted it and moved it to my talk page. Another editor restored it onto the guideline talk page.
2. 13 October 2012 Section name was inappropriately added to the talk page. An admin finally closed the thread with the admonition that "This page is for discussing the MOS, not specific users."
3. 16 October 2012 Continuing to revert talk page entries. In this case I had removed comments that were inappropriate with ones that were better, and Dicklyon using an edit summary warning not to delete other's entries, deleted my entry.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Warned on
2. Warned on 4 October 2012
3. Warned on 16 October 2012 by Apteva (talk · contribs)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

User:Dicklyon is no stranger to WP:Point. In this edit it is asserted that "in proper names" doesn't mean "in all proper names". Well duh. Hyphens are not used in Sun or in Moon, but guess what, no one has been able to find a proper name that uses an endash, which is what they were trying to say, even though it is not true. The idea was that adding some would stop one editor, me, from saying that the MOS says that proper names use hyphens. Well I can still say that the MOS says that proper names use hyphens because the word some means that Sun and Moon do not use a hyphen - and is totally ridiculous to think that adding some means that endashes are either ever or never used. What it implies, if you were to think that it was referring only to the times that hyphens and endashes were used, that hyphens were used some of the time but endashes were used most of the time which even if all of the comets in the world used an endash in the name and all of the airports and wars used an endash, that would still mean that endash was rarely used, as the cases where Dicklyon thinks that endashes are used in proper names are far fewer than the cases where hyphens are used, so it is just poor grammar to use some to mean most. But rewriting the MOS just to try to stop one editor from wanting to correct the punctuation of a title is just absurd.

In the discussion of moving two articles, Dicklyon pointed out three uses of that name, and failed to point out that oh yes the vast majority do not follow that usage. On their talk page today they asserted that if some reliable sources use something that is sufficient to use that for an article title, when that is definitely not how choices are made. We use the majority, and the most authoritative. In the link, "numerous sources" is 17% - and a reference to the official naming of comets says they only use spaces and hyphens, yet Dicklyon, who has an engineering background IRL, insists that they should use an endash. That in itself is a good example of disrupting WP to try to make a point.

In one of the edit summaries Dicklyon wrote "for Apteva to use this excuse to hide discussion about his disruption is not OK", as if I was deleting a discussion from ANI. User appears to be under the misconception that guideline talk pages are notification of disruption pages, and wanted to make certain that all of the other editors working on that page knew that an editor was being warned about disruption. Who is such a notice for? For the disrupter or for everyone else? Had the notice been placed where it should have been, on my talk page, deleting it is acceptable and a confirmation that it has been seen, if not actually read. Putting it on the talk page of the guideline was totally inappropriate and it should have been deleted by anyone who had seen it.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• 14 October 2012

Discussion concerning Dicklyon

Statement by Dicklyon

Comments by others about the request concerning Dicklyon

Result concerning Dicklyon

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Neotarf

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning Neotarf

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Apteva (talk) 04:53, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Neotarf (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Article titles and capitalisation#All parties reminded

The talk page of a guideline is not the place to make accusations. It is ironic to accuse someone of being disruptive by being disruptive.

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 13 October 2012 Restored an inappropriate discussion that had been deleted
2. 13 October 2012 Then used this section to accuse another editor of acting inappropriately, instead of at their talk page.
3. 11 October 2012 Our own article on the comet does not capitalize the comet. Why should the MOS?
4. 29 September 2012 The section explained where one should be spelled out and where it should be written as a number, so I gave an example. It was such an obvious need, that it did not need to be discussed. What needed to be discussed though was why Neotarf thought it was not a good example. A question on my user page or on the talk page was warranted before an automatic revert. Neotarf exhibits ownership of the MOS and only likes to use their edits, and does not even like changes to the talk page, reverting closure of an RFC instead of just moving on.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Warned on 12 October 2012 by Apteva (talk · contribs)
2. Warned on 4 October 2012 by Roscelese (talk · contribs)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Neotorf appears to be a relatively new editor who may have quickly adopted the attitude of incivility at WP:MOS. My recommendation is a warning but nothing more severe. There very first edit, however indicates some previous experience with WP.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

14 October 2012

Discussion concerning Neotarf

Statement by Neotarf

Comments by others about the request concerning Neotarf

Result concerning Neotarf

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.