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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Januarythe18th (talk | contribs) at 18:51, 15 October 2013 (→Unblock request). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

I'd like to politely ask you not to stalk me around as per WP:HOUND. Also, as per WP:Talk_page_guidelines, the talk page of an article is meant for discussion about the article, not personal opinions about users. You polluted a clean page of an article: outline_of_chess, with content unrelated to the article, while also ignoring that the users there carry a civilized process of WP:BRD. You could at least use my talk page to speak about me personally. Thank you. GreyWinterOwl (talk) 21:09, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Do you mean this edit where I explained to you why your edits were reverted by others and offered you assistance as to where find help? I never touched Outline of chess.

The Brahmin concept of caste style "Pollution" is not a concept we have on the Misplaced Pages. --Januarythe18th (talk) 21:24, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

September 2013

Allow me to be honest here. There is absolutely no reasonable basis for the misuse of article talk pages and violation of WP:TPG that are contained in this edit. We do not misuse article talk pages to insult and belittle others, or to indicate without evidence that we are somehow more knowledgable about topics than others, or any number of other things which you seem to do in your recent history of this article. I believe you very much should review talk page guidelines and make a more visible effort to conduct yourself in accord with them, particularly as there is a very real chance that ArbCom involvement will be sought as per the prior ruling. I believe you should regard this as a warning, and, possibly, as the final one you might receive regarding this sort of conduct. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 16:05, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Ongoing Behavioural concerns

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danh108 (talk • contribs) 16:22, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

I believe it would be very very useful for any admin looking to lift this block to also review the history of the editor's edits to Talk:Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University. John Carter (talk) 15:35, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Januarythe18th (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Request for clarification : Could you clarify why?

At 16:04 on 3 October 2013 (UTC), John Carter himself (above) requested that I present evidence that Dan and others were active Brahma Kumaris and working as a tagteam. Further more, my accuser Danh108 and other BKs requested on numerous occasions that I did so. I voiced my reluctance to do so, because as I was sure the BKs would use it against me.

And when I do and refer to information published in the public domain, Dan then does precisely that and reports me "scoring" a win by having me blocked.

Does that seem correct?

Can you ask someone for evidence many times, and then when they give it, report and ban them for giving it?

It seem to be an extreme block for a first offence, especially considering the extenuating circumstances. It would also be good if admin also compares my positive contributions to the Misplaced Pages which include new pages and many reliable sources, in comparison to my SPA accusers.

Evidence

Brahma Kumari Single Purpose Accounts

I drew the Misplaced Pages's attention a long term pattern of Brahma Kumari Single Purpose Accounts. My accuser Danh108 (talk · contribs) not only specifically asked me on several occasions to post evidence that he was acting as a "servant" of their religion (the technical term in many North Indian religions is "sevadhari". "Seva" means service, ""Dhari" mean "practitioner"). He had also previous attempted to outed who they believed I was - by name - on both the mainspace and talk pages, e.g.

18:46, 14 March 2013 , again at

08:14, 15 March 2013 , again at

21:55, 13 August 2013 , again at

10:57, 28 September 2013 , again at

18:45, 5 October 2013 (UTC) , and again at

07:49, 8 October 2013

My reluctance voiced

At 13:58 on 6 October 2013 (UTC) I stated my reluctance to present my evidence of the BK tagteam because I did not want "to be drawn into making accusations that will then be used against me" ... which is precisely what Danh108 has now done. I would have thought was evidence of my goodfaith?

As the talk page appears to redacted, it's very hard for me to present all my evidence and I have still not presented the evidence of the tagteam coordination as it's not in my nature to waste admins' time with such complaints and accusations.

Brahma Kumari Single Purpose Accounts report removed

The report of the Brahma Kumari Single Purpose Accounts was then removed by one of the other Brahma Kumaris, GreyWinterOwl (talk · contribs), here. Please note, only 3 clearly incorrect edits, we were supposed to expect new user GreyWinterOwl knew where to and was able to place 3 complex admins complaints immediately after joining .

Does that seem normal?

If you are asking me to reflect on my conduct, I would say that it has to be viewed within the extremely stressful and unusual context. I've never outed anyone by name on the Misplaced Pages nor used private or unsubstantiated material to do.

My accuser has, and yet they and the rest of the BK tagteam are free to edit.

Further evidence offered

Out of fairness, if you are ready to look at the evidence which supports the accusation that members of the Brahma Kumaris are acting as a well coordinated tagteam and to a degree unusual even for the Misplaced Pages, and this is all part of their strategy, please let me know where to publish it. Thank you --Januarythe18th (talk) 01:46, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Decline reason:

At first, reading your unblock request, I had a good deal of sympathy, and was inclined to consider an unblock. Although you took actions which were inconsistent with the way the policy on "outing" is commonly interpreted, it looked as though you did so in good faith, as a response to requests for evidence, not realising that the particular type of evidence you offered was considered inadmissible. (My personal sympathy was no doubt increased by the fact that I strongly disagree with the way the "outing" policy is commonly interpreted, but as an administrator I try to put such personal opinions aside, and consider cases on the basis of consensus, rather than my own view.) However, I never unblock on the basis only of reading an unblock request, without looking at the general history of an editor. When I did so, I found a disturbing history of disruptive and contentious editing, and a battleground approach to editing Misplaced Pages. I also found rather persuasive evidence that you have used at least one other account as a sockpuppet, and evidence that this account itself may well be a sockpuppet of an earlier blocked account that is known to have used many sockpuppets. Consequently, my conclusion is that there are ample reasons for maintaining the block, irrespective of the merits of the "outing" case. JamesBWatson (talk) 10:46, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Is it possible for someone to review this block? I am being accused of other sins by the BKs which are nothing to do with me and I'd like them to stop. Or at least be able to respond to them. --Januarythe18th (talk) 17:00, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

I very much believe that the statement regarding my own statement above indicates errors. There are ways to present such evidence around here, and outing people on talk pages is not among them. Discussions at noticeboards, or requesting input at ArbCom, or elsewhere are the ways to present such evidence without violating WP:OUT, which I suggest you read. I acknowledge that there are concerns regarding your possible use of sockpuppets raised elsewhere, but it seems to me that you could deal with them at this point by presenting the appropriate evidence here, which could then be linked to in on the noticeboard discussion. John Carter (talk) 17:24, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

You must mean, WP:OUTING, which I have just found. It does not tell how or where to report.

You asked for evidence and offered to investigate. You did not tell me how or where. I, naturally, thought it was part of an ongoing discussion and was as discrete as possible. Unlike Danh108, I have never written personal names on the Misplaced Pages nor accused anyone of being what they are not, nor exposed private information.

Has Dan been blocked for doing so? If not, why not? He himself clearly asked for the evidence.

I think the only way I could put in that report, given that it includes personal information, was if it was done privately, e.g. via email. But I still don't know to whom or where.

I am sorry, but it's a bit too much to expect everyone know every rule and how the bureaucracy works. I don't like wasting admin time with complaints.

We were discussing the meaning of sevadhari which means a servant of a god or religion. All I did was simple Google search. --Januarythe18th (talk) 17:54, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

If you were blocked for posting a link, don't post that link here, IRWolfie- (talk) 22:44, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

If you are ever unblocked, if you have a concern about someone's editing and their real life identity, that concern should be sent to Arbcom privately over email.--v/r - TP 22:49, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

TP, until proven, can you remove this edit. It's highly prejudicial and it's got nothing to do with me.

As you are new to this, the issue in question what not a simple concern over someone's identity. It was to do with a highly coordinated off wiki coordination of a tagteam of followers working the BKWSU page. What you are seeing here is just a further extension of this. --Januarythe18th (talk) 13:21, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

The template rightly says 'suspected' and I've annotated your concern already at the SPI.--v/r - TP 13:49, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Are you doing a checkuser check or presenting your evidence of who else they might be? Presumably someone has some evidence one way or the other? --Januarythe18th (talk) 18:14, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

No, I was not blocked for posting that link. That was just a link to Google.

Honestly, this is just more distraction from what is really going on here. I have never mentioned anyone by name on Misplaced Pages, whereas my accuser Danh108 (talk · contribs), one of the BK tagteam, has both on multiple occasions (mainspace and talk page), and demanded that I post evidence, (as above).

Something does not seem right here.

The sockpuppet business below has nothing to do with me either. For all I know, it's another part of the BK tagteam's strategy to build up a case against me. --Januarythe18th (talk) 00:06, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

In the conversation January is referring too above, he was directly advised to report any evidence to arbcom. It was never suggested the evidence for his allegations related to an outing, but even if they did, if he followed the advice of John Carter and Greame, this would never have happened. The diff is affected by the OS, so I quote: "As this article has been subject to ArbCom perhaps you could try and communicate with the committee and see if your concerns are addressable. Or you could ask for advice at the Adminstrator noticeboard about the correct processes or routes for your concerns. GraemeLeggett (talk) 15:32, 5 October 2013 (UTC)"

This is also a concern: https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Januarythe18th

Regards Danh108 (talk) 23:17, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

It continues

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danh108 (talk • contribs) 20:48, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Unblock request

Januarythe18th (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Then I can we wait until the results of the sockpuppet accusation, and look a little deeper at the issue, because that user has absolutely nothing to do with me. I'll suggesting that the timing of the accusations and their prejudicial nature even when unproven is deliberate.

It's no coincidence that the sockpuppet accusation was also made by the same BKWSU sevadhari (servant) Danh108 who reported me for "outing" him in the first place. There was nothing "exposed" on the Google search I linked to (discussing the meaning of sevadhari), that Danh108 does not expose himself on his own user page.

This entire escapade is bogus and just part of the BKWSU tagteam's strategy to gain control over their religion's page.

This situation arose because of the pressure of that tagteam who, despite their absolute collective inexperience, refused the obvious starting point of a sandbox version of the topic and instead engaged immediately in an immediate strategy of accusations and complaints from both Danh and GreyWinterOwl above . A new user who was apparently skilled enough to place immediate admin complaints.

What matters most is the quality and accuracy of the content and what you are allowing now is an utterly one sided development of individuals with their own conflict of interest, lack of other Wikipedian experience, technical ability (reference tags breaking) and even access to the references contained within the topic. I would say the current topic version is sandbox quality.

You are rewarding Danh by allowing him carry on posting, despite having directly outed other individuals by name, as shown. You're encouraging a system where those who game by complaining and accusing gain the advantages, regardless of the strategic intention of those complaints, against those who don't complain. Even when the complainant themselves have done much worse than what they are accusing others of doing.

Could you please explain this seeming lack of even handedness? --Januarythe18th (talk) 14:40, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

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{{Unblock on hold |1=blocking administrator |2=(From above) :Then I can we wait until the results of the sockpuppet accusation, and look a little deeper at the issue, because that user has absolutely nothing to do with me. I'll suggesting that the timing of the accusations and their prejudicial nature even when unproven is deliberate. : It's no coincidence that the sockpuppet accusation was also made by the same ] sevadhari (servant) ] who reported me for "outing" him in the first place. There was nothing "exposed" on the Google search I linked to (discussing the meaning of sevadhari), that ] does not expose himself on his own user page. : This entire escapade is bogus and just part of the BKWSU tagteam's strategy to gain control over their religion's page. : This situation arose because of the pressure of that tagteam who, despite their absolute collective inexperience, refused the obvious starting point of a sandbox version of the topic and instead engaged immediately in an immediate strategy of accusations and complaints from both Danh and GreyWinterOwl above . A new user who was apparently skilled enough to place immediate admin complaints. : What matters most is the quality and accuracy of the content and what you are allowing now is an utterly one sided development of individuals with their own conflict of interest, lack of other Wikipedian experience, technical ability (reference tags breaking) and even access to the references contained within the topic. I would say the current topic version is sandbox quality. : You are rewarding Danh by allowing him carry on posting, despite having directly outed other individuals by name, as shown. You're encouraging a system where those who game by complaining and accusing gain the advantages, regardless of the strategic intention of those complaints, against those who don't complain. Even when the complainant themselves have done much worse than what they are accusing others of doing. : Could you please explain this seeming lack of even handedness? --] (]) 14:40, 14 October 2013 (UTC) |3 = ~~~~}}

If you decline the unblock request, replace this template with the following code, substituting {{subst:Decline reason here}} with a specific rationale. Leaving the decline reason unchanged will result in display of a default reason, explaining why the request was declined.

{{unblock reviewed |1=(From above) :Then I can we wait until the results of the sockpuppet accusation, and look a little deeper at the issue, because that user has absolutely nothing to do with me. I'll suggesting that the timing of the accusations and their prejudicial nature even when unproven is deliberate. : It's no coincidence that the sockpuppet accusation was also made by the same ] sevadhari (servant) ] who reported me for "outing" him in the first place. There was nothing "exposed" on the Google search I linked to (discussing the meaning of sevadhari), that ] does not expose himself on his own user page. : This entire escapade is bogus and just part of the BKWSU tagteam's strategy to gain control over their religion's page. : This situation arose because of the pressure of that tagteam who, despite their absolute collective inexperience, refused the obvious starting point of a sandbox version of the topic and instead engaged immediately in an immediate strategy of accusations and complaints from both Danh and GreyWinterOwl above . A new user who was apparently skilled enough to place immediate admin complaints. : What matters most is the quality and accuracy of the content and what you are allowing now is an utterly one sided development of individuals with their own conflict of interest, lack of other Wikipedian experience, technical ability (reference tags breaking) and even access to the references contained within the topic. I would say the current topic version is sandbox quality. : You are rewarding Danh by allowing him carry on posting, despite having directly outed other individuals by name, as shown. You're encouraging a system where those who game by complaining and accusing gain the advantages, regardless of the strategic intention of those complaints, against those who don't complain. Even when the complainant themselves have done much worse than what they are accusing others of doing. : Could you please explain this seeming lack of even handedness? --] (]) 14:40, 14 October 2013 (UTC) |decline = {{subst:Decline reason here}} ~~~~}}

If you accept the unblock request, replace this template with the following, substituting Accept reason here with your rationale:

{{unblock reviewed |1=(From above) :Then I can we wait until the results of the sockpuppet accusation, and look a little deeper at the issue, because that user has absolutely nothing to do with me. I'll suggesting that the timing of the accusations and their prejudicial nature even when unproven is deliberate. : It's no coincidence that the sockpuppet accusation was also made by the same ] sevadhari (servant) ] who reported me for "outing" him in the first place. There was nothing "exposed" on the Google search I linked to (discussing the meaning of sevadhari), that ] does not expose himself on his own user page. : This entire escapade is bogus and just part of the BKWSU tagteam's strategy to gain control over their religion's page. : This situation arose because of the pressure of that tagteam who, despite their absolute collective inexperience, refused the obvious starting point of a sandbox version of the topic and instead engaged immediately in an immediate strategy of accusations and complaints from both Danh and GreyWinterOwl above . A new user who was apparently skilled enough to place immediate admin complaints. : What matters most is the quality and accuracy of the content and what you are allowing now is an utterly one sided development of individuals with their own conflict of interest, lack of other Wikipedian experience, technical ability (reference tags breaking) and even access to the references contained within the topic. I would say the current topic version is sandbox quality. : You are rewarding Danh by allowing him carry on posting, despite having directly outed other individuals by name, as shown. You're encouraging a system where those who game by complaining and accusing gain the advantages, regardless of the strategic intention of those complaints, against those who don't complain. Even when the complainant themselves have done much worse than what they are accusing others of doing. : Could you please explain this seeming lack of even handedness? --] (]) 14:40, 14 October 2013 (UTC) |accept = accept reason here ~~~~}}

I am moving your latest unblock request to the bottom of the page. Putting it above other messages which were already there risks confusing people about the order of postings, with a danger that people might get the impression that comments below this request were posted after it, and refer to it, when in fact they were here before the unblock request. I will also offer you the advice that unblock requests that consist largely of attacks on other editors very rarely succeed, as you will know if you took the advice to read the guide to appealing blocks before posting an unblock request. There are at least two reasons for this: (1) your unblock request will be assessed on the basis of what you have done, and whether it seems that you will edit constructively within Misplaced Pages's accepted standards, and what other people have done provides no evidence on that question; (2) the very fact of using an unblock request to attack others is an example of the battleground approach which is one of the reasons you have not already been unblocked, so this unblock request actually goes a good way towards confirming that you should remain blocked. JamesBWatson (talk) 17:55, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

I am clearly not attacking my accuser here.

I am questioning the system where someone who has outed using names and position on more than one occasion, my accuser, is rewarded for his gaming of the it and allowed to continue to edit; and someone who has not outed using names, myself, is blocked for "egregious" misuse.

Clearly something is wrong that you can see.

I also note that his sockpuppet accusation against me is still open and unproven and, as there is only one computer attached to my router, I am confident will exonerated me and then this situation can be seen in an entirely different light.

It's not my habit to accuse and complain and run to the admins all the time in order to disable other contributors whose opinions are different from mine. By allowing this situation, you are encouraging a state where those who have no moral qualms in doing so are empowered, merely for doing so, and those who don't are penalised.

Unlike the entire BKWSU tagteam, which this experience teaches me that I should have invested more time accusing and complaining to admins rather than starting new referenced and unchallenged pages, at least I have offered some good to the rest of the Misplaced Pages. --Januarythe18th (talk) 18:34, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

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