User talk:Flyer22 Frozen - Misplaced Pages

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This user may sometimes share an IP address with Halo Jerk1.

Welcome to my talk page. I have been editing Misplaced Pages since 2007. If you want to know more about me, see my user page. My work, like a lot of others, has been complimented and criticized. And in March 2012, I was even blocked. See the block cases. And it's during that first block case that I learned a lot about WP:Assume good faith and who you can count on to be there for you; that experience has made me more acrimonious towards Misplaced Pages, and this feeling was intensified with my second block case (again, refer to the block cases link). Still, I believe that it's best that I help this site, seeing as many people come here for information (it's almost always ranking highest in search engines, and that type of thing is always going to bring in a lot of readers) and a lot of those people trust what they read here. So it's my job to make sure that any topic I am heavily editing is as accurate as possible.

Especially see User:Flyer22#Main type of editing style for why what you consider neutral, or what you consider needed with regard to images, likely differs from my view; don't know about you, but I'm following Misplaced Pages policies and/or guidelines in that regard. Any questions, compliments or criticism of my Misplaced Pages work, feel free to leave me a message here on my talk page or email me. If you leave me a message here, I will usually reply here.

WP:WTA

I'm bold, I don't ask permission before posting good information about writing styles to avoid. Its a fairly straightforward thing, taught in many writing courses, and it is not covered elsewhere on the page, which is why I added it. You reverted, now you own it. Your job to move discussion to Talk. Also, don't use extra edit summaries to plead your case or go into in-depth discussion, that's what Talk pages are for. -- Netoholic @ 09:53, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Netoholic, yes, you were WP:BOLD. You were WP:BOLD with a guideline that should have WP:Consensus for such a big edit, as reflected by what that guideline states at the top of its page. WP:Consensus is a policy and can be achieved through silence as well. But I was not silent; I reverted you. Being WP:BOLD obviously does not mean that you cannot be reverted, no matter how good you think your information is. Your addition used authoritative language for what is a guideline, and you even suggested that editors should avoid use of the word several, despite it often being quite appropriate to use the word several, such as when avoiding a WP:Linkfarm of names. The WP:BOLD guideline and WP:BRD essay make the following clear: You were reverted, so now it is you who should take the matter to the guideline talk page if you wanted it restored; I don't want it restored, so it's not up to me to take the matter to the guideline talk page. I don't own it at all. I made it very clear why I reverted you. And, yeah, I followed that up with this commentary. That's my right. It's not up to you to tell me not to do that. I'm not going to take a thing to the talk page that I can state just as easily in an edit summary. And, by the way, WP:Dummy edits, which I didn't use in this case, are for the very purpose of stating something in an edit summary that does not need to be taken to the talk page. I also suggest you tone down the inappropriate attitude if you want me to consider any proposal you make to that guideline seriously. Flyer22 (talk) 10:16, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Oh, and as I clearly stated in that followup commentary, the "several, some, many, few" topic you added is very much already covered by the WP:Weasel words portion of that guideline. So, if your elaboration on that aspect belongs anywhere on that page, it's in that section. And like Template:Who states: "Use good judgment when deciding whether greater specificity is actually in the best interests of the article. Words like some or most are not banned and can be useful and appropriate. If greater specificity would result in a tedious laundry list of items with no real importance, then Misplaced Pages should remain concise, even if it means being vague. If the reliable sources are not specific—if the reliable sources say only 'Some people...'—then Misplaced Pages must remain vague." Flyer22 (talk) 10:37, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

The problem with the BRD essay is that it doesn't cover an equally valid way to handle things... BDR. You could have asked me questions like "don't you think its covered in WEASEL already (No, it doesn't. WEASEL is about bias, LAZY is about precision. They are closely related and perhaps overlap in some examples, but that's all.) You could have made a post on the talk page asking what others think. You know, sometimes the sky won't fall if a fresh idea sits on the page and stews, allowing many people to get a chance to read it (Hell, you could have marked it with a {{Brainstorming}} tag or something). Deleting it within moments is aggressive, and if you're going to do that, you owe it to the other editors to be the one to raise the issue on the Talk page. ADDED: I also see you haven't mentioned a complaint about the intensifiers "very" and "really" (though, you yourself misuse them ~~very much~~ often)... you could have edited my guideline section to just those, and left the "Several" talk for later. --Netoholic @ 11:09, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Netoholic, unless you want to see how long we can go before one of us wins WP:The last word, we are not going to have this discussion in two different places. And if you try to have it in two different places, I'll likely simply revert you here at my talk page, with an edit summary. Since it's my talk page, I can have WP:The last word. The thing is this: I was completely in the right to revert you, especially regarding a guideline page, and there is no Misplaced Pages policy or guideline stating that I was in the wrong to revert you. It is your opinion that I was in the wrong to revert you. But the Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines are supposed to have WP:Consensus. You had no WP:Consensus for that addition, as evidenced by my reverting you because I disagreed with your addition. Not that it's simply a matter of what I state. But to assess what other editors think on such a matter, the matter should be taken to the policy or guideline talk page. It's there now. I stated before that I don't like it when editors come to a policy or guideline looking to impose their view on that policy or guideline because of a recent dispute they had somewhere on Misplaced Pages or simply because of their personal tastes. Yes, in my opinion, the "several, some, many, few" topic you added is very much covered by WP:WEASEL. Above, you stated that "WEASEL is about bias, LAZY is about precision." But, um, the LAZY bit you added is also about bias; it mentions POV. And POV naturally and often comes with bias in such cases. Deleting a non-WP:Consensus addition to a guideline "within moments" is not aggressive, and I find it odd that any significantly (like my intensifier there?) experienced Misplaced Pages editor would think so. Not just for a guideline, but for editing in general. Misplaced Pages editors don't have to let an edit stand because it's polite to do so; we revert when we disagree with something. We are then supposed to discuss the matter if it is worth discussing, instead of repeatedly reverting each other. I don't owe it to you or anyone else to be the one to take a matter to the talk page if I'm not the one intent on including the information. The WP:Burden policy, for example, was created for that type of thing.

As for your grammar lesson: No, keep it to yourself. Almost every "grammar expert" I encounter on Misplaced Pages needs quite a few grammar lessons before attempting to teach anyone on the topic. I'll use the words very and really the way that I want to in discussion. And contrary to your assertion, I don't use them often. Nor do I use them in Misplaced Pages articles, unless they are a part of a quote. That, other than not every word you added needing to be mentioned, is why I avoided mentioning them to you -- because I'm not fond of their use, and have been known to remove "very" from Misplaced Pages articles and reword the matter. I don't see "really" much on Misplaced Pages; must be our tastes in Misplaced Pages articles that makes the difference there. Flyer22 (talk) 11:42, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

I feel like you've made a personal attack on that talk page. I think phrasing viewpoints using "I" statements rather than "You" statements, and ensuring comments are about the edits/ideas not the editor are beneficial and avoid escalation. Lastly, if I ever cited WP:DICK to someone else, I'd feel like I was the one being a dick. --Netoholic @ 12:34, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

If you feel like this is a WP:Personal attack, then go ahead and report me; see how far you get with that. Judging by how you approached this entire matter, including this latest revert, it's clear that either you don't know how Misplaced Pages is supposed to work, despite your several years editing this site, or you don't care. It's that, or you simply are not as experienced editing this site as one would think by assessing the age of your Netoholic Misplaced Pages account. You were reverted by another editor anyway, like I knew you would be. Flyer22 (talk) 12:45, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

That editor has never edited that page before, so its unlikely it was on their watchlist. I think devoting so much time to making snap decisions and combating vandalism would make me very aggressive and impatient, but at least I'd probably be in touch with other editors to help me out in difficult moments. Eh, but I don't want things to always be a battle... very stressful and unenjoyable... so I'd avoid that sort of thing. -- Netoholic @ 12:55, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Given that the "Contributors" option in the page's edit history is currently not working, how do you know that editor has never edited that page before? Whatever your belief, that editor commonly contributes to discussions on that guideline's talk page, as shown in its edit history. It is on his WP:Watchlist. As for my reverting vandalism: Similar to what I stated of your grammar lessons, save the psychological analysis for someone else. I told you before that I don't tolerate passive-aggressive nonsense; so I suggest you stop replying on my talk page from here on out. Flyer22 (talk) 13:14, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

What was wrong with this edit?

I think you should've provided edit summary. Tool/software pretty much distracts from the subject. OccultZone (Talk) 12:54, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

I reverted because of improper formatting (the heading) and because it doesn't seem to me that those See also links are needed; in addition to appearing to be something a guy added to emphasize a POV about man-hating, they appear random, especially the non-existent Lifetime Movie of the Week link. But feel free to add them back if you want. Flyer22 (talk) 13:01, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Sounds much better. Thanks. OccultZone (Talk) 13:05, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

I see that the IP had already added them back anyway, except for the aforementioned non-existent link. The heading still needs fixing; per MOS:HEAD, we go by sentence case and not title case. Flyer22 (talk) 13:22, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Negroni cocktail

Hello Flyer22 I'm a newspaper reporter who's researching an article on the Negroni cocktail. I see that you've edited the Negroni Misplaced Pages entry several times recently. Specifically, it looks as if you have deleted the alternate version of the creation of the Negroni cocktail. Could you tell me why? MrkHay302 (talk) 17:24, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Hello, MrkHay302 (talk · contribs). I reverted you for the same reasons that others reverted you, as seen here, here, here and here. Did you not read their reasons for reverting you? To sum up, your additions go against WP:NOT; do read that policy. Also, why have you moved from the Hanegroni (talk · contribs) account to the MrkHay302 account? Per WP:Sockpuppetry, you should generally stick to one registered account. And, yes, I got the two emails you sent me (haven't yet read them in their entirety). But, like my user page states, "Keep in mind, however, that, concerning Misplaced Pages, I only regularly email with a select few (and I do mean a very small group of people from this site). So for others, if you email me, make sure that it is about something that makes my user talk page less than ideal to use for that message. Otherwise, I may very well ignore you, especially since replying back will provide you with my email address (one of them anyway)." Flyer22 (talk) 14:30, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Need your input

On the article, Rape in India. Reason is simple, main contributors have been either indeffed or topic banned from editing this article. I am alone for months, on the verge of 3rr. Recently, I had thoroughly checked at least one section of the article, had figured a number of errors in summaries. So you may also want to check rest of the article, other than the recent changes. Thank you, regards. OccultZone (Talk) 01:17, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

I'll help out with that later. In the meantime, any backstory you can give me on this? Flyer22 (talk) 02:11, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes I had, before I would write here, check. OccultZone (Talk) 02:55, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Okay, OccultZone, I see that the editor has not yet revered again. I've put the article on my WP:Watchlist, but I'm not sure that I'll leave it on there. If that editor adds back the material, I'll revert and advise him (via edit summary) to take the matter to the talk page, if you don't beat me to that first. You should also consider leaving a message on his talk page about the matter if he reverts again. Flyer22 (talk) 11:30, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Hey

Hey, how you been? Mind giving me your input on something soap related? livelikemusic 00:17, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Late to replying because I was busy with other Misplaced Pages matters, but, sure, go ahead and ask me. Is it related to this? When checking up on this WP:ANI matter, I saw that an editor has reported you there. Flyer22 (talk) 15:01, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

It is in response the talk page of Theresa Donovan, actually. The ANI unfortunately followed; an action I did not see being made. livelikemusic 17:11, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Livelikemusic, there are currently two very recent discussions at that talk page (the Child Actresses and Removal of content sections); which discussion do you want me to weigh in on. Or is it both? Flyer22 (talk) 16:26, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Both, plus at WP:SOAPS. Sorry for late response. Kind of taking a back seat on Misplaced Pages lately. livelikemusic 15:58, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Okay. And I just weighed in here. A break from Misplaced Pages is understandable, especially if you are not getting the Misplaced Pages help that you need and feel too stressed out as a result. I'll comment in those sections now. Flyer22 (talk) 12:44, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Glad you understand, and thank you for your comments and opinions. livelikemusic 21:01, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Rahil Gupta

Hi ,

This is the first work of mine . And i did it for Rahil Gupta because He has done something substantial in militant hit state and provided job opportunities to so many people. I don not know much about editing but what you people feel good like you can edit accordingly . Thanks,

Arjun — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arjun7007 (talk • contribs) 14:57, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Orphan Black

Hi, I know the review of the second season only consisted of one line, but I was planning on adding to it later on. I was also hoping that another editor would add to the section.

SpiritedMichelle (talk) 21:41, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello again, SpiritedMichelle (talk · contribs). Regarding this matter, I still don't think that there is much you can add about the critical reception for seasons 1 and 2 that would not be redundant and would require that the section be split into subsections for that material. In this case, I see it as best to expand first and then divide into subsections if needed. But I will remove subheadings if I feel that they are unneeded.

On a side note: When conversing with me at least, I ask that you consider keeping the discussion on the page that it first started on (unless it needs to be taken to a different talk page); this keeps the discussion centralized. I'm not a fan of disjointed discussion. You can simply use WP:Echo to ping me back to the discussion if you don't think I'm watching the talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 21:55, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Pet psychic

Hello. I think the problem in this article is that critics like:

"In 2008, a study using neuroimaging provides the strongest evidence yet obtained against the existence of paranormal mental phenomena. Using the assumption that psychic ability originates in the brain, the authors used fMRI scanning of participants' brains during the use of psi and non psi stimuli. Participants were either emotionally or biologically related to one another. The experiment was designed to create positive results if psi phenomena occurred. While the participants' reactions to non psi stimuli were as expected from previous studies, the psi inducing stimuli showed indistinguishable difference to non psi stimuli."

are NOT related to the article, these critics should be on the paranormal article. Also works of neuroscientist Persinger show contrary results compared to this studie.Thundergodz (talk) 02:37, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Theresa Donovan

Uhmm... The removal of the quote was not "silly." It was discussed on the talk page and agreed upon. Perhaps some looking around before commenting in the future. Cebr1979 (talk) 20:51, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Um, Cebr1979 (talk · contribs), yes, removal of the quote was silly and, since I did look around and explained on the talk page why the removal was silly, I stand by my statement that the removal was silly. I am quite familiar with what it takes to create a WP:Good or WP:Featured character, television or film article. Removing the role commentary you removed is silly to me; my opinion on that won't be changing. And since I barely edit soap opera articles anymore, I likely won't have to deal with the WP:Disruptive and WP:Battleground behavior you are known for. Not that I'd tolerate it anyway.

A barnstar for you!

	The Editor's Barnstar
	For always being a supreme editor, and a great contributor to turn to when help is required! You deserve this! livelikemusic 03:09, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, livelikemusic. I should have helped you sooner on the aforementioned Theresa Donovan issue, though. And I wouldn't state that I am always a supreme editor. As you likely saw before you gave me this barnstar, I can certainly let my frustration or anger get the better of me while on Misplaced Pages. The reply to that particular editor was a combination of being frustrated by this topic and personal issues that I have to deal with daily. I'd much rather stay as cool-headed as Zad68; I obviously can stay that cool-headed. But consistently the way he does? Sometimes it's just not worth it to me, especially if I'm dealing with a situation where I wish that people's understanding of a topic was as in depth as my understanding of that topic and then I have to compromise what I know with how they perceive the matter. I don't know everything (and I know that many people hate a know-it-all), but the things I do know well are things that I don't like to see compromised. But Misplaced Pages... It's a place well compromises are often made to ensure the collaborative process. Thanks again. Flyer22 (talk) 04:45, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

It's fine, Flyer22. We all let things get to us. You still deserve the Barnstar! So don't even think about the negatives. You helped out when you could and that's what matters, especially since others couldn't be bothered to help out! You rock! livelikemusic 16:13, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

RE: TIM TAM UPDATE — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justinpoor (talk • contribs) 14:47, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

The Amazing Spider-Man 2

You have crossed the line for undoing my edit to The Amazing Spider-Man 2, you have violated WP:3RR. I will have to report you if you undo me for the second time. Understand? ~NiamhBurns10 Talk Contribs 17:39, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

No lines crossed. Flyer acted in good faith according to the rules -- length of a summary should be 400-700 words. Making threats is definitely against the rules. Plus posts to talk pages should go to the bottom of the page, not here. Plus it was only one revert not three.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 16:47, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

: Thanks, Tom. NiamhBurns10 (talk · contribs), you should not be citing any Misplaced Pages policy or guideline if you do not understand it. I did not cross the line by reverting you here. Nor was the revert a WP:3RR violation, which means reverting more than three times. Go ahead and report me; see how well that works out for you.

Oh, and if you start a section on my talk page in the future, make sure that you start it in the appropriate place -- at the bottom, per Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines#Layout. As you can see, I moved your post to the correct spot. If you revert me on the Spider-Man 2 matter, I won't have to revert you again; someone else will eventually take care of that for me. Flyer22 (talk) 16:53, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

It was you who violated WP:3RR, not me. ~NiamhBurns10 Talk Contribs 18:14, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

NiamhBurns10 (talk · contribs), judging by your interaction with me (including your failure to comprehend WP:3RR even after it has been explained to you) and your talk page, I see that you severely misunderstand how Misplaced Pages is supposed to work. Should not be too long before you are indefinitely blocked. I now will ignore any further replies you make to my talk page in this section. Flyer22 (talk) 17:33, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Email: Sex and gender distinction article

I can only hope I'm replying the right way. How can I email you? I think it would be better for this situation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ruthlessgem (talk • contribs) 02:28, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Ruthlessgem (talk · contribs), see this section on my user page about contacting me. But keep in mind that I don't need a lesson on gender, and that I won't base the lead of the Sex and gender distinction article on your or my personal feelings about the subject. There are Misplaced Pages:Policies and guidelines that we should follow. The sex and gender distinction is about distinguishing biology from social aspects; as I told you on your talk page, that is part of why (the main reason why) I reverted you at that article.

On a side note: Remember to sign your username at the end of the comments you make on Misplaced Pages talk pages. All you have to do to sign your username is simply type four tildes (~), like this: ~~~~. A bot signed your username for you above. And if you start a section on my talk page in the future, make sure that you start it in the appropriate place -- at the bottom, per Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines#Layout. As you can see, I moved your post to the correct spot and gave your post a heading. Flyer22 (talk) 02:53, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Given what you stated on your talk page, it seems best that you simply communicate with me on Misplaced Pages. Unless, of course, what you have to state is personal and you would rather it not be stated on Misplaced Pages. Flyer22 (talk) 03:29, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Quick acknowledge regarding Rape fantasy

I didn't remove the link because of a WP:PAYWALL issue; I was merely re-arranging the references before I added three new citations that were more direct.

I paused because I got hung up on the mis-matched page numbers for Strassberg & Lockerd, 1998 (citation #4 lists "page 416", even though the publication ends at 414; I can only assume it was mis-typed and was supposed to be 406). Incidentally, I'm confident the original link to "Specific Sexual Fantasy Themes: A Multidimensional Study" was a WP:COPYVIO and re-wrote it as link to the journal's website.

In short, didn't remove anything. Thanks for keeping an eye out, anyway. Meteor sandwich yum (talk • contribs) 05:34, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

I appreciate you replying to this and this; I should have paid better attention to the WP:GENREF link (which I associated with WP:USERG); I clicked on it, but only skimmed it (it's not a guideline I've ever referred to, though I have referred to the WP:Citing sources guideline that it is a part of). As for this matter that you consider a WP:Copyvio, your commentary sounds unsure and I'm also unsure of that matter being a WP:Copyvio issue; I'm not sure that when a free version of a source is provided, that makes linking to that version a WP:Copyvio since the paid version is still up and running. I know if the free version is provided by the publisher, that changes matters, but I'm uncertain about WP:Copyvio in the case of an unrelated source hosting the full version. Flyer22 (talk) 05:53, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

I see that you asked Moonriddengirl about the matter. Thanks. Flyer22 (talk) 22:53, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Image in sexual assault article

See the article's talk page. —a thing 09:31, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

I know, AThing. The article is clearly on my WP:Watchlist; therefore, you don't have to ping me to the discussion about this matter or post to my talk page about it to tell me about the discussion. I am in the process of replying, even though clearly not fast enough for you. I take my time, and do other things in the interim, such as revert vandalism. Flyer22 (talk) 09:43, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Okay. I have not gotten into many discussions in talk pages before (or if I did, it was years ago) so I was not sure whether you would be notified. —a thing 17:30, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Soliciting comment...

Hi! Would you care to review my FA nomination for the article Of Human Feelings? The article is about a jazz album by Ornette Coleman, and the criteria for FA articles is at WP:FACR. If not, feel free to ignore this message. Cheers! Dan56 (talk) 23:54, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Dan56, feel free to solicit me for any comment; I certainly solicit others on Misplaced Pages for commentary, whether it's via WP:Echo or otherwise. But, though, I've offered commentary in WP:FAs, I've never truly taken on the role of a reviewer. I might comment in your nomination, but I'm not likely to act as a full-time reviewer there. Flyer22 (talk) 00:00, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Congratulations from STiki!

The Diamond STiki Barnstar of Merit

Congratulations, Flyer22! You're receiving this barnstar of merit because you recently crossed the 100,000 classification threshold using STiki.

We thank you both for your contributions to Misplaced Pages at-large and your use of the tool.

We hope you continue your ascent up the leaderboard and stay in touch at the talk page. Thank you and keep up the good work! West.andrew.g (developer) and Pratyya 05:07, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

A tremendous achievement! Thank you for your continued support of STiki and your tremendous impact on the security of this invaluable knowledge resource. West.andrew.g (talk) 04:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Congrats

Hey Flyer, big big congratulations for reaching the 100K mark on STiki! classified edits.--Pratyya 05:08, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

I second that, just noticed you had crossed the 100K, very well done! Fraggle81 (talk) 16:24, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Flyer22 Frozen. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Don't revert and claim "minor" edits: Biology and sexual orientation article

And in the future you might want to actual read what is being changed before you jump the revert gun. 68.117.88.143 (talk) 21:48, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

IP, with regard to this, the WP:Rollback tool marked the revert as WP:Minor; this is because your edit was reverted as vandalism or as otherwise problematic. I've read that source before, but it looked to me like you were removing a quote to state something that is not supported by the source. In the future, you may want to leave a WP:Edit summary before you edit, or better yet sign in. You clearly are not new to editing Misplaced Pages, and I don't want to see you type a thing about simply editing as an IP. I am not the editor to give attitude to; if you give it to me, I will give right back at you (usually).

On a side note: I altered the heading of this section with ": Biology and sexual orientation article " so that it is clear as to what this section is about; it will also help identifying the section once it is archived. Flyer22 (talk) 22:04, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

whether i'm using an IP to edit or log in is irrelevant to both my edits and your responses to them. You should always take a deep breath and read the edits in question before flippantly reverting.68.117.88.143 (talk) 22:21, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Nope, not irrelevant in the least, especially given that the vast majority of vandalism and/or other unconstructive edits on Misplaced Pages are committed by IPs. Nor is it irrelevant that you use WP:Edit summaries if you don't want editors to think that you are fouling up a quote on a highly contentious topic. I will revert in an instant if something looks sketchy to me, and ask questions later. Perhaps someone else will read that long source and analyze the matter. I'm done discussing this with you. Flyer22 (talk) 22:29, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

ahhh, so you've completely eschewed assuming good faith in order to expedite your editorial oversight. Very well. don't let this pesky IP editor waste more of your valuable time.68.117.88.143 (talk) 22:52, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Change of subject: The way that you type is very familiar to me; you might want to change that up a bit if you are trying to remain disconnected from your registered account, which you clearly are. All the IP changes in the world, whether a WP:Proxy or not, can't keep me from recognizing a registered editor who is editing as an IP and associating that IP to their registered account. Flyer22 (talk) 23:34, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Stalk

And I wanna also know why you find the need to stalk what I do and change everything. I wouldn't change what you do. And I think that was correct. So next time, please consult me before you change my choices and opinions and facts all together. Jump off. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hagor423 (talk • contribs) 23:08, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Hagor423 (talk · contribs), considering that you, at this very moment, only have two edits under your Hagor423 account, and I reverted you once, I don't know what you mean by "stalk what do and change everything."

On a side note: Don't hijack an old thread to comment to me about something unrelated. You should start a section on my talk page and make sure that you start it in the appropriate place -- at the bottom, per Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines#Layout. As you can see, I moved your post to the correct spot and titled it. Flyer22 (talk) 23:34, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, Flyer. Don't revert obviously constructive edits. --NeilN 23:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

This a sock of Don't delete my edits please (talk · contribs) or just someone who doesn't get WP? EvergreenFir (talk) 02:09, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Artificial general intelligence article

Is Misplaced Pages owned by you? No? So, why do you think that you can suppress one edit without any justification? --AlvoMaia (talk) 07:18, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

AlvoMaia, no, Misplaced Pages is not owned by me. But your unsourced/WP:Original research material does not belong in the Artificial general intelligence article. Thus I reverted you, as seen here and here. There are Misplaced Pages:Policies and guidelines you are supposed to go by. Misplaced Pages article content should be based on WP:Reliable sources, per the WP:Verifiability policy. You think you can add anything you want to this site without justification? Think again. But go ahead and revert me again; either way, your content will eventually be removed.

On a side note: I altered the heading of this section by changing "AI" to "Artificial general intelligence article" so that it is clear as to what this section is about; it will also help identifying the section once it is archived. Flyer22 (talk) 09:54, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Flyer22 I believe you are confused, or trying to waste my time. This has nothing to do with "own research" but with common sense. Most Misplaced Pages text is not just a citation from previous papers... and this by itself, put out of context by some user, as he wishes, can be seen as original doing. There are a lot of "original" papers and biased information built that way. The approach chosen in the this Misplaced Pages text suppresses a simple mathematical issue, the power set, that anyone with a BSc should understand by himself. Do not confuse that with a research paper, just because you want to suppress what you didn't know, and don't want others to know. Of course, I will put it again... but I will link to power set, perhaps this will help you to understand. Regards --AlvoMaia (talk) 13:28, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

AlvoMaia Please adhere to WP:RS when you make edits. -- CFCF (talk · contribs · email) 14:27, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

AlvoMaia, I am not confused, but it appears that you are. Though I am quite certain that you are not new to editing Misplaced Pages (judging by your instant creation of your user page and you remembering to sign your username, which is uncharacteristic of very new WP:Newbies), you appear to not be familiar with some aspects of how Misplaced Pages is supposed to work. Do become familiar with those aspects, starting with the policies and guidelines page I linked to above and WP:Five pillars. As for your assumption that I am not familiar with the artificial general intelligence subject, that is only an assumption and I won't elaborate on what I may or may not know on that subject for your benefit. But, as my user page is clear about, science, though I hardly edit predominantly science topics (unless one wants to count sexual orientation, anatomy and/or other medical articles as that), is one of my strong areas. And do hold off on the WP:Editorializing, such as the "which is obviously a contradiction" text you used for your entry. Flyer22 (talk) 14:51, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Flyer22 I'm new in Misplaced Pages as a contributor, and that is the reason why I thought no justification was needed to add something important (I thought it was obvious!), and that is the reason why I answered you in that way - because your suppression was not obvious... I'm sorry if it sounded hard, but I still do not understand your "good faith" suppression now. It is not difficult to understand some basic stuff. I only entered to see if it is worthy or not to put some valuable knowledge, without being suppressed instantaneously by someone else, without any rational justification. I did not mentioned anything about your particular knowledge on AI. I just mentioned that the text was ignoring a very basic mathematical statement on finite sets and power sets. If you are not able to judge the text by itself, such as to understand that infinity can not be equivalent to finitude, and that is an obvious contradition, what can I say? I will fight you back? Of course not! Do as you wish. Consider this as a simple personal test. --AlvoMaia (talk) 15:32, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't like reverting your edits, but they do not comply with the Misplaced Pages guidelines. Please research by following the links above and likely noone is going to revert you. -- CFCF (talk · contribs · email) 15:57, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

CFCF I do understand that consensus here can go by adding number and not by adding reasons. The above reasons are fully explained. It is not "own research" and it does not need reliable sources as the text is self-contained. It does not add anything just by putting the name of the author or the source where it was published. If the editors do not understand the simple fact that infinity and finitude are not the same thing, then I have nothing more to say. This was just my test to see if Misplaced Pages is runned by humans or not. It seems it is not. It is just runned by humans that like to emulate citation machines. Thanks. --AlvoMaia (talk) 16:23, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

I do have experience in this area and can tell you that your addition does need sources (and more context). Articles are not written only for people with BSc degrees. --NeilN 16:45, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

NeilN I added this subject, in good faith, as it is an important issue concerning Artificial Intelligence with finite machines. The text is self-sufficient, as many other paragraphs that we can read in Misplaced Pages. For instance, check the whole paragraphs written about the power set, they have no references, and that is not needed, as it just simple mathematical reasoning. This is mathematics, not literature, or other opinion subjects.

Mathematical reasoning has a problem... it is either true or false by itself. It does not need a citation to become true. If you truly believe that there is something that is unclear, please let me know and I will try to make it as clear as possible. I used the same degree of context that I see in other mathematical subjects.

You might think that is not only a mathematical issue, but you can not ignore what mathematics has to say about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlvoMaia (talk • contribs) 17:08, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

AlvoMaia, I stated that you are not new to editing Misplaced Pages; I mean that it's very obvious to me that you have edited Misplaced Pages before creating your AlvoMaia account. I already went over the reasons why it's obvious to me. You can try to convince me that you are entirely new to editing Misplaced Pages, but it will not work. The fact is: The vast majority of Misplaced Pages editors do not create a user page as soon as they show up (the ones who do usually have a specific reason as to why), and the vast majority of very new Misplaced Pages editors do not remember to sign their username. They also do not use words such as "good faith," a direct reference to the WP:Assume good faith guideline. The fact that you do all three puts you in the "definitely not completely new to editing Misplaced Pages" camp, as far as I can see. And as for you stating, "I did not mentioned anything about your particular knowledge on AI"... Your "13:28, 22 June 2014 (UTC)" post quite clearly suggests that I reverted you because I don't understand the subject. In fact, you outright stated: "The approach chosen in the this Misplaced Pages text suppresses a simple mathematical issue, the power set, that anyone with a BSc should understand by himself. Do not confuse that with a research paper, just because you want to suppress what you didn't know, and don't want others to know."

You can surely go about your business. I'm not watching the Artificial general intelligence article, and I have no interest in further discussion with you. Flyer22 (talk) 19:29, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Flyer22, I just did what I saw here being made, it is a shame that you assume other things. I created the webpage as it is said when you enter wiki and I created the talk page because the link here pointed red. If you do not believe, check the history. I signed, because I saw here that everybody signed (and it is the 3rd button on the editor). I used the term "good faith", because this is what it appears in your suppression (again check the history file in AGI). I tried to fit in, and I comply with reasonable things, but not with unreasonable ones.

This discussion here just began because of your supression. I understand that you don't question what was written, you were just doing automatic stuff, following some instruction 22 from the Misplaced Pages machine processor. I do not argue with machine behavior, machines are always right... in their own world. --AlvoMaia (talk) 20:51, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

It's a shame that you are still trying to convince me that you never edited Misplaced Pages before your AlvoMaia account; you are wasting my and your time. Notice that I never stated that you are not somewhat of a WP:Newbie; in my "14:51, 22 June 2014 (UTC)" post, I indicated that you are, while also making it clear that I don't believe that you are entirely new to editing this site. And as for your use of "good faith," oh, yes, I considered that you got that from my WP:STiki revert, but then you used it again (without quotation marks).

Move it along, and leave me alone. Flyer22 (talk) 21:00, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Flyer22, I never touched this page, you believe what you want. But, do you think it is a proper way to say goodbye with "Move it along, and leave me alone"? Is this a Misplaced Pages rule standard? --AlvoMaia (talk) 23:34, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

@AlvoMaia: There comes a time where further conversation is pointless. The addition you're making isn't going to stay unless you provide a proper cite. Simple as that. Flyer's response was no less "proper" than your continual insinuations that we're acting like automatons. Please respect her wishes and do not post here again continuing your fruitless argument. --NeilN 23:43, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Date rape drug/Drug facilitated sexual assault (DFSA)

"Someone needs to come up with a better way of keeping these topics distinguished if these articles are to remain separate." Can you come up with something? --David Hedlund (talk) 21:37, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello, David Hedlund. I figured that you might want to talk with me after I made that statement, and you thanked me for it via WP:Echo. As for a solution to better distinguish the topics, it seems that I came up with one following that comment (if that's not already the point of both articles existing); seen with this edit summary (pardon my typo -- the missing word to). Do you think that you can work with that, or is it not distinguishing enough? And while we're on the subject of date rape, do you have any opinion on merging the Date rape and Acquaintance rape articles? Like I stated in the discussion there about it, I'll eventually get around to starting a WP:RfC on the matter. As you can see, the editor (Sue Gardner) who reverted you on merging the Date rape drug and Drug facilitated sexual assault‎ articles is also for keeping the Date rape and Acquaintance rape articles separate.

On a side note: I tweaked the heading of this section by adding "Drug facilitated sexual assault" to it so that it's clearer as to what this discussion is about. I also obviously linked the term date rape drug. Flyer22 (talk) 21:54, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

@Flyer22: Thanks.

Added incapacitating agent to both articles and I also created Incapacitating_agent#Date_rape_drugs. --David Hedlund (talk) 22:04, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

LOL, David (may I call you David?), you don't have to ping me at my talk page; I'll get the message without the ping due to the talk page alert. Flyer22 (talk) 22:16, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Oops, I though I was on my page. Yes you can call me David, thats my first name. Interestingly deliriants have been used as date rape drug and incapacitating agent, like scopolamine. --David Hedlund (talk) 22:25, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

A kitten for you!

Holdenlaneginsburg (talk) 03:27, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

You've got mail. -- User:holdenlaneginsburg — Preceding unsigned comment added by Holdenlaneginsburg (talk • contribs) 04:43, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Holdenlaneginsburg (talk · contribs), see what is stated here on my user page? I see no reason that you need to contact me via email regarding the Human sex ratio article. I also don't visit that email often; what I mean by that is that because Misplaced Pages has been having trouble with using Yahoo! email, I very recently changed my Misplaced Pages email from Yahoo! to that address, but I am not very interested in checking that new account (it's foreign to me). Simply reply to me on your talk page or my talk page. Using Misplaced Pages to reply is not difficult. Remember to sign your username at the end of the comments you make on Misplaced Pages talk pages. All you have to do to sign your username is simply type four tildes (~), like this: ~~~~. A bot signed your username for you above. Flyer22 (talk) 05:24, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you! Artificial insemination article.

With compliments! Mootros (talk) 14:47, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Mootros. And, as you know, I got your message here as well. Flyer22 (talk) 14:51, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Sorry about this. I reworded some more. Cheers! Mootros (talk) 15:02, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Mootros, that's okay. As for your extra rewording, like I stated here, a lot of what you removed in this edit was not a WP:NOTHOWTO violation, at least in my opinion. You caught the "it should be raised a little bit" part that I missed. But, for example, I left in the "The nose should be considerably softer and more pliable than normal." part because it's not telling a woman to make the nose of her cervix a certain way, which is complicated to do anyway; it's simply informing her how it should feel in that specific case, which is a health aspect to me. But, anyway, the article definitely needed cleaning up in the word department (still needs more in that regard), and your showing up at the article has resulted in a better article.

On a side note: I altered the heading of this section with "Artificial insemination article. " so that it is clear as to what this section is about; it will also help identifying the section once it is archived. Flyer22 (talk) 15:22, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Rebecca Budig article

This is amyjow. Sorry, didn't know I had to give sources. As for my editing of Rebecca Budig's page, it was public information. It was either in print previously or things she herself has mentioned on her show or social media or to me personally. I saw that some public info about her was missing and I just thought I'd make it more accurate. Sorry I overstepped the boundaries. Amyjow (talk) 21:13, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Amyjow (talk · contribs), you're new to editing Misplaced Pages, so your unsourced edits to the Rebecca Budig article are understandable. The good thing is that you stopped and listened to me about our WP:Biographies of living persons (WP:BLP) policy. Yes, contrary to popular belief, Misplaced Pages articles generally rely on sourcing, or are supposed to. Note that not just any sources are acceptable; the sources have to pass the WP:Reliable sources guideline. If you aren't sure about whether or not a source is reliable, feel free to ask me here at my talk page about it. In the meantime, you can become familiar with the way Misplaced Pages is supposed to work by not only reading the aforementioned linked pages, but also by reading the linked pages listed at WP:Five pillars.

And if you start a section on my talk page in the future, make sure that you start it in the appropriate place -- at the bottom, per Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines#Layout. As you can see, I moved your post to the correct spot and titled it. Also, remember to sign your username at the end of the comments you make on Misplaced Pages talk pages. All you have to do to sign your username is simply type four tildes (~), like this: ~~~~. I signed your username for you above. Flyer22 (talk) 21:50, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Greenlee Smythe

How would you feel if I re-did the Greenlee Smythe article, and updated it to match current soap articles? They work you provided on it is incredible, but given the resurgence in soap articles by some of us users, I'd love to tackle the page. But I didn't want to do it without asking you, since I believe there's real potential in its article and since you had a hand in its first reconstruction! livelikemusic 03:55, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Feel free to restructure it and expand it (it obviously needs further fixing up, and my improvements to that article were at a time when I was not as skilled a Misplaced Pages editor as I am now); I trust that you will do so appropriately. As long as the important content is retained, I don't much mind. Flyer22 (talk) 04:05, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

I would not remove anything from the article; if anything, I'd re-structure and re-organize, as well as add upon! Will start soon! Thanks again! livelikemusic 04:27, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

There are some things that need to be removed from the article; for example, some aspects of the Background section that are currently there should instead be paraphrased. The extensive quoting there might be a WP:Copyvio problem. The Plot section is out of control, per WP:PLOT and WP:TVPLOT. I understand that there is a lot more plot information to summarize for a soap opera character that is from a show that usually has a new episode every day of the week than in the case of a prime time character that is from a show that has a new episode every week except for hiatuses, but that plot section can be significantly condensed. I didn't contribute to most of it, and was always concerned about it being too long. There are WP:Dead links that need to be fixed in that article as well, if they can be. Flyer22 (talk) 04:48, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. I will definitely take these things into consideration when doing the article. livelikemusic 16:57, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

When Louis Met...

Why have you removed my comments regarding Jimmy Saville? I think you will find what I posted was factually correct. You have no right to remove factually correct information. It's not a big secret that he was a dirty paedo, and in the last few days it has come to light that he liked to indulge in necrophilia. Mind your own business, before I start editing your work! ‎Stuartflys (talk) 21:44, 27 June 2014‎ (UTC)

Having just read through your information I conclude that you are a complete nut job, obsessed with fannys, don't bother to respond to me in filter out mentalists. ‎Stuartflys (talk) 21:59, 27 June 2014‎ ‎ (UTC)

‎Stuartflys (talk · contribs), I reverted you because this bit that you added was WP:Vandalism as far as I can see, not simply WP:Disruptive editing. On Misplaced Pages, your edits are everyone's business; see WP:Contributions. As for threatening me: LOL, go ahead and start editing my work; see what happens. And as for "aving just read through your information," I'm not sure what you are talking about. Nor am I sure what you are talking about by "obsessed with fannys," unless you mean protecting pedophilia and child sexual abuse topics from pedophiles or advocates of adults engaging in sexual activity with children (which isn't at all clear from my user page, and is rather something someone knows by being familiar with my editing; but either way, it's not a matter I'm obsessed with). Ah, let me look at the dictionaries; there's this one and this one, for example. So you mean that I'm obsessed with the vagina, vulva, the buttocks? That I'm obsessed with sexual activity? Why, because I primarily edit anatomy and sexual topics? That makes me a nut job? Okay then. But as for calling me a nut job, you'll have to come up with a better insult than that. I've been called worse on this site.

Jennifer Lopez has sold 80 million records Worldwide as of 2014 and i don't think it's right you keep changing it

Hi If You actually did your research and read the articles i posted you would know that since may of 2014 Jennifer Lopez has sold 80 million record worldwide i feel that it is not right that people keep reverting my changes when i have included up to date articles from 2014 which state that she has sold 80 million records worldwide as well as a film gross of 2 billion dollars what i want to know is why do you and others keep using articles from 2011 and not 2014 you say always cite reliable sources well i can give you 3 articles which state the same thing that Jennifer Lopez has sold 80 million records for example:1.www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/la-et-ms-jennifer-lopez-aka-20140615-story.html#page=1 article title:Jennifer Lopez on dating, her split with Marc Anthony and First Love. 2.www.forthone.com/music/news/jennifer-lopez-reveals-album-title-racy-artwork/ article title Jennifer Lopez Reveals Album title & Racy Artwork 3.www.rantlifestyle.com/20-hottest-female-musicians-in-the-world-today/ Article Title: 20 Hottest Female Musicians in The World Today (Tnays20 (talk) 17:55, 28 June 2014 (UTC)).

Avatar

I appreciate your notice to me about seeing the talk page and previous discussions. I had previously read these discussions however each page as to stick to the rules set by Misplaced Pages or there is no point rules being there. Thank you anyway. I have restored the page to what it should be. WARNER one --9999 (talk) 20:59, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello, WARNER one (9999). I already explained what the deal is regarding the Avatar (2009 film) when reverting you here and here. This is not a matter for my talk page; it is a matter for the Avatar (2009 film) talk page. You should not enforce your recent solution, seen here and here, on every Misplaced Pages film article and should instead treat the matter on a case-by-case basis. It does not seem to me that you read the past discussions, or at least enough of them, to see why only "American" has stayed in the lead in this case. And as for following the rules: WP:Consensus is policy; WP:FILMLEAD is a guideline. I ask that you do not WP:Edit war over this matter, as your recent edit history shows you have WP:Edit warred over different film matters, and instead try to achieve a new consensus; WP:Consensus can change. Flyer22 (talk) 21:16, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

And my follow-up note is here. Flyer22 (talk) 21:30, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

I see that you've also been told about the case-by-case matter by Erik, one of the best film editors around, and yet you have persisted in such contentious edits without discussion. Well, alrighty then. Flyer22 (talk) 01:10, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Enough said. I give in. You want it your way then have it, I will not participate further in the matter. Thank you. WARNER one--9999 (talk) 14:35, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

WARNER one (9999), it's not about winning or having it one's way; that's a take on Misplaced Pages that you need to correct. The matter in question is about you making a case for your changes on the talk page. If you can't hold such discussions, then you will not do well at Misplaced Pages unless you edit things that generally don't need discussion. We can and should hold off on the WP:Civility violations and see if we can come to a new WP:Consensus. I don't mind much at all not having any country listed in the lead; as noted above and on the article talk page, it's your approach that I took more objection to. As for starting a new heading for this topic at my talk page, not needed; so removed. Flyer22 (talk) 14:52, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Just get the fact, I don't want to participate further in the matter. However when you mention the way I done it, you need to clear up your thoughts and facts. I used a reference to Misplaced Pages guidelines while making an edit, which is done every day by thousands of Wikepedians. I then left a polite message on your talk page. You still ignored what I wrote. You then have tried to manipulate mistakes that I have made in the past. What Erik told me was his personal recommendation. I replied to him to say my reasons and explain that I was restoring the page in question to how it had been for 4 years (with good reason). I appreciate his recomendations and do examine pages on a case by case basis (including Avatar). I am not happy of your ways of trying to continue this matter now that there is closure to the issue in question. I do not want it to continue. If you feel you must continue writing pointless excuses here then fine but I honestly don't care. I have moved on. I am now a member of Misplaced Pages:WikiProject United Nations and am persisting in helping constructively on other areas of Misplaced Pages. So please don't continue the matter. It's over. Thank You WARNER one. — Preceding undated comment added 15:02, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

WARNER one (9999), I get the fact you don't want to participate further in the matter; this is why I stated: "If you can't hold such discussions, then you will not do well at Misplaced Pages unless you edit things that generally don't need discussion." Like I noted at the talk page, you don't discuss; you simply WP:Edit war. And that kind of behavior will be cut swiftly at this site. There is nothing that I need to correct regarding my characterization of your behavior. Your characterization of what I did, however? Namely your assertion that I ignored what you wrote? The above shows otherwise. And there is no "" on my part; I noted your mistakes, plain and simple. Learn from them. I'm not sure what page you are referring to when you state "had been for 4 years (with good reason)." But the WP:STATUSQUO at the Avatar (2009 film) article has been to maintain only "American" in the lead when it comes to what country produced the film, which is why Betty Logan reverted you; she reverted because you had not achieved WP:Consensus for your change. I was not trying to continue the matter. I suggested here on my talk page that you partake in discussion if you want your edit implemented. Likewise, Betty suggested as much on the article talk page. You've moved on? Good for you, I suppose. But the discussion can continue without you. Betty, for example, as shown by past discussion and the current one, has interest in not solely listing "American" in the lead. You don't get to dictate what is and what is not over for talk page discussions. Flyer22 (talk) 16:37, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

I am not dictating anything. I am not in the matter any more. stop this pointless continuation. END. WARNER one (9999) — Preceding undated comment added 16:47, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

WARNER one (9999) (the last time I'm going to ping you via WP:Echo in this discussion), you are trying to dictate the matter at hand (the country discussion) if you are stating that it's over simply because you are no longer involved with it; and telling you so is not pointless. What is pointless is you continuing to come to my talk page to tell me how much you are not involved. If you don't want to be involved anymore, then simply stop replying. You don't get to tell me to shut up. Per WP:TALK, I do, however, get to tell you to stay off my talk page. Consistently signing your comments also helps if you do comment on my or any talk page; the bot shouldn't have to do it for you. Flyer22 (talk) 17:00, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Userscript you may like

Considering that you use the rollback, and then a dummy edit to signify why you've done it, you can use the userscript 'Rollback "in place"' at WP:US to right click the 'rollback' button and to leave an edit summary whilst using rollback. Additionally, it's useful because it won't redirect you to any other page, but leave you on that page. Just wanted to let you know of this addon. Tutelary (talk) 16:43, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Mau Mau Uprising

Why did you undo my changes if they were in good faith? Do you have sources to support the revert you made? 73.182.225.223 (talk) 17:15, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello, IP; I reverted you for what I assume are the reasons Mail Seird (talk · contribs) reverted you (partly why at least): Your addition was unsourced, and was additionally WP:Editorializing. Flyer22 (talk) 17:17, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

But Wiki can't become an anti-UK hate site, now, can it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.182.225.223 (talk) 17:19, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Sex positions

"As the article shows, a sex position is not always penetrative; nor is it always direct stimulation. for example, in the case BDSM, a person may get in a sex position purely for psychological stimulation"

Hmm... that's a really broad definition of a sex position, which would not only include BDSM-related acts such as being tied up or whipped, but also watching somebody (e.g. voyeurism) or standing somewhere. I should also note that BDSM is not mentioned anywhere in the Sex position article, neither are paraphilia. In fact, it hardly mentions anything about atypical sex at all, except perhaps such rare positions like 369. The page is exclusively focused on penetration and manual stimulation of sex organs, and I think we should adhere to that scope. Cheers, Manifestation (talk) 18:25, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Manifestation. I figured that you would bring this and this matter to my talk page; I was tempted to advise you in a WP:Dummy edit to not bring the matter to my talk page. This discussion belongs on the article's talk page.

My point of mentioning BDSM (I certainly was not talking about all aspects of BDSM) was to counter your assertion of "I can't believe this was in the *lead* section of the article. If the act doesn't penetrate or otherwise stimulate, then how can it be a sex position?" Obviously, not all sex positions include sexual penetration. A man may get into the coital alignment technique (or something similar), for example, simply to stimulate the woman's clitoris, without sexually penetrating the woman. And some people get into a sex position for foreplay, which is often more so psychological stimulation than physical stimulation. The current state of the Sex position article is not "exclusively focused on penetration and manual stimulation of sex organs," nor should it be. There is a "Non-exclusively penetrative positions" section and a "Non-penetrative positions" section. Oral sex is not always penetrative; for example, oral stimulation of the outside of a woman's vulva (meaning not between the vulva) is not penetrative (even oral stimulation between the vulva, like I noted here, is often not considered penetrative). I made a point of stating "direct" when replying to you, and that's because the article's sentence was not stating that the sex organs are not involved. Sex organs can obviously be stimulated indirectly, which is where sexual arousal/foreplay comes in. Flyer22 (talk) 19:03, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

I agree with all you wrote... but what I meant was: if someone's sex organ(s) is/are not touched one way or the other, then you can't call it a sex position. Of course, you don't have to touch somebody to stimulate (arouse) him/her, but arousing somebody is not a sex position.

I have brought this matter to the article's talk page, as you suggested. Cheers, Manifestation (talk) 10:45, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Manifestation, then you missed the point of what I stated. The point of what I stated is this: People can get into a sex position for the purposes of non-penetrative sex, which is indeed covered in the article and is a point you seemed to dispute; your statement above even claimed that the article focuses exclusively on penetrative sex, which is clearly wrong. The "direct stimulation" bit is, I'm sure, not meant to imply "otherwise we mean sexual arousal"; "indirect stimulation" covers more than sexual arousal. I think that the person who added "indirect stimulation" was referring to indirect stimulation of the genitals, which, when referring to sexual activity, is usually classified as anything that does not involve manual stimulation or the penis getting pleasure by penetrating an orifice (meaning penile penetration for a man is direct stimulation for that man); "indirect stimulation" especially concerns indirect stimulation of the clitoris (look on Google Books or Google Scholar; it's there). For example, the coital alignment technique is often considered indirect stimulation of the clitoris, where manual or oral stimulation of the clitoris is usually considered direct stimulation (sources can vary on the matter regarding oral sex, and manual or oral stimulation may indirectly stimulate another area of the clitoris). Notice how this source talks about sexual penetration only indirectly stimulating the clitoris? I objected to your edits because what you removed is covered by the article. But as for sexual arousal specifically regarding a sex position, that is addressed in the Non-penetrative positions section; it mentions orgasm control.

I'll now comment on the article's talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 20:17, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Jennifer's Body

I saw you thanked me for that. Do you remember that conversation between us a few years back? I was making some changes to my archives, saw it, and realized my mistake. Funny how time flies, now we've worked together on stuff again. Corvoe (speak to me) 20:53, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Corvoe, yeah, thanks again for that. I pride myself on having a very good memory (usually remembering things that people can't remember no matter how hard they try), and such a memory has served me well on Misplaced Pages, but I don't know what discussion you are referring to. And, yes, time has flown by very fast since I was heavily into editing the Jennifer's Body article years ago. Flyer22 (talk) 23:59, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Right here, haha. Corvoe (speak to me) 01:36, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

LOL, that discussion shows the level of our inexperience at that time (I'd only been on Misplaced Pages for two years then). But still, I was correct. I mean, I'm not sure which rule you were referring to, but Misplaced Pages:Offensive material states otherwise. You were also obviously going by a different Misplaced Pages name at the time. Thanks for the reminder. Flyer22 (talk) 01:44, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

I just looked at when your Misplaced Pages account was registered; you were more of a WP:Newbie than I was; I was pulling up on three years with the site since I joined it in May 2007 (but there were still a lot of Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines I hadn't mastered), while you had just joined the site in March 2009. Flyer22 (talk) 01:56, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Length of comments

Hi again. I'm glad that the dispute on Talk:Sex position is settled. However, I feel like I must make a friendly (I hope!) suggestion about your style of commenting. I've looked at your posts on this page and Talk:Sex position, and they tend to be very long. You ramble on and on about a subject, covering enormous amounts of details, some of them not very relevant. If you would make the comments a bit more abridged, I'm sure they would be much more comfortable to read.

Admittedly, I recognize it: I tend to do the same thing. If you look at my list of edits, for example, you'll see that my edit summaries are often quite lengthy. When I edit an article, I usually ponder over every little aspect of it, but I'm having difficulties prioritizing the information. I should also note that I have been diagnosed with both PDD-NOS and ADD (among other things), which tends to include such behavior.

Anyway, nice meeting you. You seem to be a kind person. Take care! - Manifestation (talk) 21:31, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Manifestation: Like I've stated before, I am aware of WP:Too long, didn't read; I only make such a post when I think it is needed to sufficiently explain the matter at hand. I don't consider these posts "rambling," especially if it helps a person understand a matter they didn't otherwise understand, as is often the case with sexual topics (as recently as here). My long post at the aforementioned Sex position talk page, in response to you, apparently didn't help you better understand the matter at hand, except for the fact that "indirect stimulation" can be defined as part of a sex position. But I'm not always going to be successful in fully enlightening someone. Furthermore, the vast majority of my posts, as also shown on my talk page, are not long.

Good day to you. Flyer22 (talk) 21:45, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

FA comment: Megadeth article

Hello Flyer22. If you have some spare time these days, can you take a look at Megadeth, an FA candidate of mine? The review is here, so I'll be grateful if you can leave your comment/vote whether the article deserves to attain FA status. Have a nice day.--Retrohead (talk) 22:47, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Hi Flyer, it's me again. I don't mean to disturb you, but can you tell whether I can count on your input or should I ask another user to review the nomination? Kind regards.--Retrohead (talk) 17:13, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Retrohead, I put off replying to you because I'm leaving the idea of me commenting in the Megadeth WP:FA review open. I'm not certain that I will, but I'm not ruling it out either. So, yes, as backup, you might want to ask someone else so that the person fills my spot.

On a side note: I altered the heading of this section with ": Megadeth article" so that it is clear as to what this section is about; it will also help identifying the section once it is archived. Flyer22 (talk) 17:21, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Again, my sincerest apology for being a bore, but I prefer when editors respond whether they're available or not. If busy, can you at least check the non-free media used in the article?--Retrohead (talk) 17:25, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Happy 4th

Hi Flyer22,

I know we've never had any prior interaction, but I've been seeing your name pop up on my watchlist for years. (Your user name stands out to me, for some reason, perhaps due to the types of articles I work on.) I just wanted to stop by and say thanks for all you do around here, and to wish you a very happy holiday weekend. Zaereth (talk) 23:18, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Zaereth. I've seen you around as well, and also appreciate the work you do around here. Happy Fourth of July weekend. Flyer22 (talk) 23:47, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Also, perhaps my username stands out to you because it's "weird." LOL. Flyer22 (talk) 00:03, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Haha. That is funny. You know what they say, when all else fails, stick you thumbs in your ears and say "Nanny-nanny boo-boo." That person's probably ashamed of their own name. It's been my general experience that people who toss out insults are really talking about themselves. Zaereth (talk) 08:04, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

The edit you undid: Haath Dhoreche Gaacher Paata article

I dont think this edit: was vandalism. Jayakumar RG (talk) 11:16, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Jayakumar RG, I didn't revert that edit as vandalism; I reverted it as a WP:Assume good faith edit. I was not sure about the change, and felt that it's best to stick with the WP:STATUSQUO. Since you have not reverted me, I take it that you aren't sure about that edit either?

On a side note: I altered the heading of this section with ": Haath Dhoreche Gaacher Paata article" so that it is clear as to what this section is about; it will also help identifying the section once it is archived. Flyer22 (talk) 22:41, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

I dont speak Bengali so I cant vouch for the accuracy of the translation. But it looked better than the one before. I'll go ahead and undo your edit now :) Cheers, Jayakumar RG (talk) 03:01, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

You undid my edit before replying here again. Anyway, noted. Flyer22 (talk) 03:23, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Take it for what it's worth or not

I honestly do not intend for this to come off as a personal attack, though it may. This is how I've perceived your actions... over an edit of 126 characters.

I thought I'd shown that they had the same function with the initial citations but that got wikilawyered (I don't say that lightly - 5 WPs for 1 undo with updates to address the concern talk about disproportionate response and lack of civility), I ignore the WP:EW & WP:BRD I got after a single revert, address the WP:Redirects for discussion issue to standard. Then I get wikilawyered again. I shrug it off and go about trying to address the WP:Undue weight which I thought I'd done by WP:Writing for the opponent in the first place and citing a religious law that is applies in 25% of the countries in the world. I shrug that off to and go about getting as many varied primary or quality sources as I can. That was no easy task - countries where English is prominent enough to have legal documents I can search are mostly colonies or former colonies who adopted English Law. I get a few new policies thrown at me and a statement of 'I still see no indication that "age of maturity" is commonly used to mean "age of majority."'. You won't find such a thing because where English style law rules Age of Majority is the term used (or no term) and 'age of maturity' does not appear in any case law I could locate. In countries where English law is not prevalent you find the term 'Age of Maturity' used more often due to the influence of various religious laws which use that term in the exact manner English law uses 'Age of Majority' to establish a person as an adult in the eyes of the law. No one would ever have need to compare the two because they serve an identical legal function that is finished as soon as it starts. Despite all this I went back to all my sources and parsed out the relevant passages and connected everything as best I could, flushed out the weak spots & ditched the bad citations (Australia, my initial source was out of date). I sought help here assuming there was some misunderstanding on my part. I was about to contact you on your talk page when I started reading through some of it and found that this is a consistent pattern of behaviour - 93 times WP was used in only 37 topics. You've quoted policy/guides/etc to me 27 times in less than 48 hours and not once did I feel like you were actually trying to work with me to come up with something that would work - just that it was wrong because of X and Y and making sure that every detail was cross posted like you had to make sure the principle knew what I was up to no matter what room he was in. Many of your other interactions read this way as well. Quite frankly, that type of behaviour is exactly why people are not coming back to edit. JMJimmy (talk) 02:01, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

JMJimmy, you titled this section "Take it for what it's worth or not." I take it like this: I follow Misplaced Pages:Policies and guidelines, unless there is a valid WP:Ignore all rules reason not to do so. I point out those policies and/or guidelines to editors who are unfamiliar with them or may need a reminder on them (or simply in case a WP:Newbie comes across the discussion). If people cannot take the time to read and follow those policies and/or guidelines, they should not be editing Misplaced Pages. Call that WP:Wikilawyering if you must; I do not. I do not care not if those people come back, since they are one of the main problems with Misplaced Pages. I did not point you to so many Misplaced Pages policies and/or guidelines that you could not get the handle on what was happening. And like I noted to you, the WP:Synthesis policy was pointed out to you on your talk page years ago by a different editor (S@bre, who is now retired); you should have familiarized yourself with that policy by now. In fact, you've been with Misplaced Pages under your JMJimmy account since 2006; you should already be far more familiar with the way Misplaced Pages is supposed to work than you are now, even with being a sporadic editor. Editors who have been registered with the site for as long as you have and yet are still significantly inexperienced with it make it harder on the more experienced editors; instead of being on the same experience level, we are put into the role of teachers to the less experienced. And just like teachers often face hostility for pointing out rules or expecting their students to get caught up on those rules and follow them, very experienced Misplaced Pages editors face hostility from WP:Newbies or otherwise less experienced editors for doing similarly when it comes to teaching.

And as for not trying to work with you to come up with something that would work, I offered suggestions here at the Age of majority talk page. I also stated there that "perhaps it is acceptable to take your alternative approach and simply note in the Age of majority article that 'age of maturity' is another term to indicate the age of adulthood, not that the terms are synonyms." Your response to that was essentially, "Screw the rules because I'm fed up with you." Whatever problems you have with my approach to interacting with WP:Newbies or otherwise inexperienced editors, it is an approach that many very experienced Wikipedians have (except maybe for as much cross-referencing as I do). And I won't be changing my approach, especially since I don't see that I've done anything wrong regarding my interaction with you. (For example, what lack of civility are you talking about on my part? Certainly none that violate WP:Civility.) I told you that I am sorry that I upset you, and I am. But you won't see me stating that I'm sorry for how I handled the matter at hand. Flyer22 (talk) 02:44, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Issues that relate to civility (only because you asked - I said my bit, getting back to the work):

I felt your cross-referencing was excessive and brought issues with it that didn't need to be - not to the level of Wikihounding but enough to make me feel singled out
https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers while not a Newbie, it's been some time since I've edited here 5. Strive to respond in a measured manner - 2 reverts, 8 WPs in 1 paragraph as the first interaction I've had with you (that I know of anyway)... Not a great way to start out
Avoid Misplaced Pages jargon. When linking to policies or guidelines, do so in whole phrases
Explain yourself. Not sufficiently explaining edits can be perceived as uncivil - a couple extra sentences and holding off on the EW probably would have gone a long way.
Someone may very well be an idiot. But telling them so is neither going to increase their intelligence nor improve your ability to communicate with them.

You didn't use the word idiot but calling my experience into question and dredging up something from 5 years ago simply because I do not edit much here and assuming I was not reading up. I read each and every one you linked, I read at least half of the associated essays for each one as well, the five pillars, and a whole lot more. Mostly to catch up on the changes. I have a fair amount of experience, though definitely not as much as you. With that in mind, my first citation, prior to any reversions, it states:

"In Islamic sources, however, reaching the age of maturity is deemed to be the point of leaving childhood and becoming an adult which results in full criminal responsibility. Additionally, in none of the Islamic schools is the age of maturity under Islamic Shari’a law in complete conformity with the age of 18 as enshrined in international instruments and the age varies for boys and girls."

I bolded what is important. We are not concerned with criminal responsibility or international treaties, those are attributions that are not fixed to the term/conceptualization. We are not even concerned with the specific age or school as the point of trigger.

age of maturity is deemed to be the point of leaving childhood and becoming an adult ... the age of maturity under Islamic Shari’a law...

Now we compare that to our definition:

"The age of majority is the threshold of adulthood as it is conceptualized (and recognized or declared) in law."

We have 3 elements to our definition: The term, the trigger, and the scope.

Term: Age of Majority - Trigger: threshold of adulthood - Scope: conceptualized (and recognized or declared) in law

Term: Age of Maturity - Trigger: ... becoming an adult - Scope: age of maturity under Shari'a law

The conceptualization in the latter is implicit, but can be cited. How much more synonymous can you get?! That alone should have been enough to address the issue. Any other considerations are specific to the jurisdiction/situation and cannot change the term (unless absent), trigger, or scope. They can change when the trigger is triggered, but that does not change the term/trigger/scope themselves. Given the above and while fully understanding this these are supplements not a policy or guidelines:

SYNTH is not explanation

SYNTH is when two or more reliably-sourced statements are combined to produce a new thesis that isn't verifiable from the sources. If you're just explaining the same material in a different way, there's no new thesis.

SYNTH is not obvious II: If something is obvious to anyone who reads and understands the sources that are supposed to support it, then it's not SYNTH. An example of a perfectly valid citation is given in the guideline on citations, at WP:Bundling: "The sun is pretty big, but the moon is not so big." The bundled citation uses one source for the size of the sun, and another for the size of the moon. Neither says that the sun is bigger than the moon, but the article is making that comparison. Given the two sources, the conclusion is obvious. So a typical reader can use the sources to check the accuracy of the comparison. There is no danger of the Sorites paradox and we are not trying to draw any conclusions or combine them to mean something else.

Addressing TFDs concerns re: synth inferences in NORN. JMJimmy (talk) 08:38, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Without even reading all of your latest reply to me (I'll read it later because reading it now may test my patience more than you already have by posting this section to my talk page): There were no WP:Civil violations on my part regarding my interaction with you. Even by the non-Misplaced Pages definition of civil, I was not incivil to you. You, however, have been incivil to me, and all because you apparently took offense to my citing (in your opinion) too many relevant Misplaced Pages policies and/or guidelines and "cross-referencing." If by "8 WPs in 1 paragraph," you mean Misplaced Pages policies and/or guidelines, I did not cite eight Misplaced Pages policies and/or guidelines to you in any one paragraph. And cross-referencing, as you call it, is what I do, even with regard to myself; pay better attention to the above posts on my talk page, if you are going to use them as a reference regarding how inappropriate I've been. If the cross-referencing was meant to be a slight against you, then it was meant to be a slight against me as well. Take notice that I even cross-referenced my post on Legitimus's talk page about the Age of majority article matter. Everything that I cross-referenced was a completely understandable and perfectly acceptable use of cross-referencing, and yet you blew a gasket over it. No one has before, that I know of anyway, until you. I told you at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 July 7, "If a matter is scattered across multiple places, I'm going to note it (except for maybe if the matter is being discussed on your own talk page, a talk page that I see the WP:Synthesis policy was addressed to you before). Such cross-referencing is my way of helping to centralize the matter; see WP:TALKCENT. Ideally, discussions about a topic should be centralized. If they are not, then so that others are aware of where else the topic was discussed, I point to it."

Additionally (and since you like to use bolding, I'll do the same now), you have a view of WP:Synthesis that will not hold up in the eyes of any very experienced Misplaced Pages editor, as essentially indicated to you by The Four Deuces (TFD) at the Misplaced Pages:No original research/Noticeboard‎. For example, if you think for something to be WP:Synthesis, it requires the combination of two or more reliably-sourced statements, then I and other editors need to tweak that policy right now. I always felt it needed a little tweaking in this regard. One source can be used to create WP:Synthesis, as any very experienced Misplaced Pages editor would tell you if you asked any of them and they cared to respond to you about it.

You are not a WP:Newbie years-wise, but you are a WP:Newbie in significantly other ways. And if it's one of the many things that I cannot stand about Misplaced Pages, it's a WP:Newbie telling me how they think I should be editing. Heck, I can barely stand it when a Wikipedian far more experienced than you are tells me how they think I should be editing, unless it relates to the collaborative process of suggestions regarding grammar style, sourcing options and and/or structure style. I'm not sure what you think all this complaining on my talk page will achieve, but I can tell you right now that, despite the encouragement you got on your talk page from one of my talk page WP:Watchers, nothing good is going to come from it (unless, of course, you gain a better understanding of Misplaced Pages policies and/or guidelines). Flyer22 (talk) 09:52, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Cubes: Mark Cuban article

Mark Cubes Cuban, is known as Cubes, it even says so in the Cube disambiguation page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.128.143 (talk) 23:44, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

IP, I reverted you here and here because we don't usually include the nicknames of celebrities or other notable people in the WP:Lead, and, per Misplaced Pages:Biographies of living persons (WP:BLP), it should be reliably sourced (whether in the lead or elsewhere in the article). And the only reason that Mark Cuban is currently mentioned as Cube at the Cube (disambiguation) page is because you added it.

On a side note: I altered the heading of this section with ": Mark Cuban article" so that it is clear as to what this section is about; it will also help identifying the section once it is archived. Flyer22 (talk) 00:04, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks mate, you are the man :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.236.128.143 (talk) 00:08, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Megan Fox

While I agree she is looking good in the photo, I think it would be possible to find one which reflects just how stunning she is. Maybe one when she was in transformers would be appropriate. You know, the one when she is looking at the car.Vagout (talk)

LOL. Best to keep the discussion on the article talk page page, Vagout (talk · contribs). Maybe if we had a WP:Free image of what you want, you could get your way on that. Flyer22 (talk) 22:08, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Aerospace Physiologist Insignia listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Aerospace Physiologist Insignia. Since you had some involvement with the Aerospace Physiologist Insignia redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Gecko G (talk) 04:22, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Aerospace Experimental Psychologist or Aerospace Physiologist Badge listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Aerospace Experimental Psychologist or Aerospace Physiologist Badge. Since you had some involvement with the Aerospace Experimental Psychologist or Aerospace Physiologist Badge redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. (and yes, I'm the one who posted as 108.248.130.182- I wasn't logged in at the time because I had forgetten my password) Gecko G (talk) 04:22, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Evangelos Zappas

Hello Flyer22

The truth does not have to be constructive, it also can not be flattening to everyone ! Vangjel Zhapa has no role in Albanian history but this does not change his ethnicity ! Bests Engjell — Preceding unsigned comment added by Engjell.mehmeti (talk • contribs) 12:13, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Engjell.mehmeti (talk · contribs), I didn't revert you because the material is not pleasant. Whether something is pleasant or not is not a criteria for inclusion on Misplaced Pages. I reverted you, as seen here, because it appears that what you removed is sourced...while what you added is not sourced. See the WP:Verifiability policy. Flyer22 (talk) 12:33, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Lennart Poettering

Hello Flyer22,

Is there a reason why you reverted my two edits to the Lennert Poettering page? I am sure there is, but I was curious why. Surely I wasn't vandalizing. Was I violating some other policy? I really feel the mention to Linus on that page is gratuitous & trying to leach off the goodwill of his name. And this by a guy whose work Linus has publicly derided. Thanks! 59.182.255.187 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 20:03, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

I see that you mean the Lennart Poettering page, and I have titled your post as such above. I reverted you here because of the addition of "highly controversial" that you added. Such wording, at least regarding how early on you placed it, is unneeded sensationalism. It can be seen as POV-pushing and I'm not sure that it's directly sourced in the article. Can such wording be appropriate on Misplaced Pages? Sure. For example, regarding the topic of circumcision. But it does not seem appropriate in the Lennart Poettering case, where you placed it. If there are sources speaking of the controversial nature, that can be addressed lower in the article; and it is addressed lower in the article in this case. As for the other piece that got restored when I reverted you, I didn't see it until you pointed out my revert, but I'm not sure that it should be removed. Flyer22 (talk) 20:25, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks! You have a point. OTOH, what's the gray line between POV pushing & genuine controversy? One has got to be able to call a controversy a controversy when the situation so exists. And if one google's Poettering the controversy isn't being created by some fringe element. It is quite integral to what he does. And his work is hated by a good chunk even a majority of the community. In such cases highlighting the controversial aspects of his persona seems the fair thing to do from the POV of a reader. Why bury it deep down? At the risk of invoking Godwins Law it's like not mentioning genocide prominently in an article about Hitler or Milosevich. :)

That's why I think my edit was justified & adds to the quality of the page. Just my opinion though. 59.182.254.31 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 08:27, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to explain your point of view. Regarding Misplaced Pages rules on such wording matters, a policy that I should have pointed out to you earlier is WP:IMPARTIAL; I would have pointed it out if I could remember it at the time; it's not a policy that I cite often. And the relevant guideline on such matters is WP:LABEL; I don't cite that often either (in fact, this might be my first time citing it). But that policy and that guideline pretty much cover why we should not state the following in the lead: "Lennart Poettering is a highly controversial German computer programmer." The "highly controversial" part should not be ascribed to him like that. You are correct that any prominent controversies should be addressed (summarized) in the lead (if covered lower in the article); this is per the WP:Lead guideline. So it would be fine to state in the lead that Poettering holds controversial views; the wording should be specific as to what those controversial views are, though. That stated, since the article is not big, readers will instantly or soon see the Controversies section when they click on the article; usually at least.

Thanks! I was trying to sign but was stupidly using three tildes instead of four. :) 59.182.254.31 (talk) 59.182.254.31 (talk) 11:00, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Taking your critique into account I tried finesseeing my edit to reflect more on the specific software than the person. See if you like this better. :)

59.182.254.31 (talk) 11:04, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Also, I'll try and revert the bit on the gratuitous ref. to Linus. The change that got accidentally reverted by you. 59.182.254.31 (talk) 11:06, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome, IP. I appreciate you discussing this matter, being awfully polite about it, and working to improve your wording. Your new wording is an improvement, but I tweaked it a bit, as seen here and here. I can't promise that someone else won't remove "controversial" from the lead, but the new wording makes it less likely that it will be removed. You might want to add a hidden note right beside "controversial," explaining why it's there...including citing WP:Lead. Flyer22 (talk) 17:33, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Apology: User:WARNER one

I previously used to be WARNER one and have since reincarnated myself to be more friendly, useful, cooperative, less nationalistic and all together a better editor. I have identified you as one of the editors that I have wronged in the past which is why I urge you not to consider my previous actions in the future as I am completely different. I would like to be friends so we can hopefully collaborate in the future. If you understandably still don't want to colabarte and/or see my new side then that is 100% fine. Just please leave me a note here so I know for the future. THANKYOU! --Warner REBORN (talk) 16:56, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Hey, Warner REBORN, I appreciate the offer and it's nice to see you trying to change your approach to editing situations on Misplaced Pages. A lot of us, including me, sometimes need to change our approach to an editing situation on Misplaced Pages. I could have handled my dispute with you better than I did, and I realize that. I'm open to working with you collaboratively. As for your name change, it would have been better if you had simply requested a name change via Misplaced Pages:Changing username instead of dropping your previous account; that way, your older contributions would still be physically tied to your previous account. But at least you have identified on your user page that you are User:WARNER one.

On a side note: I altered the heading of this section with ": User:WARNER one" so that it is clear as to what this section is about; it will also help identifying the section once it is archived. Flyer22 (talk) 23:09, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

JackALope044

I will bring this discussion here, since we both agree it doesn't belong on the lolicon talk page. For reference, yes, I am actually new to editing Misplaced Pages. I had another account that I made about eight years ago, which I used for a few months and then promptly abandoned, and by this point I've forgotten both the name and password of that account. Since then, I've made minor spelling and grammar edits to articles I've found as an IP, but nothing beyond that. I did not begin actively editing Misplaced Pages and I did not had another account until the 7th of July, with the GochiUsa article incident over the use of the "yuri" genre. What is it about my actions that makes you think that I am clearly "not new to editing Misplaced Pages"? JackALope044 (talk) 19:32, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

You are not especially new to editing Misplaced Pages, as indicated by you above, and an editor not being new to editing Misplaced Pages is something that I easily pick up on. One sign is that you always sign your username; I've stated this before on my talk page, but I'll state it again for your benefit: The vast majority of new Misplaced Pages editors, in my several years of experience at this site, either do not sign their username or rather often forget to sign it until at least a few weeks of practice. Flyer22 (talk) 19:46, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Well, I guess I don't fall under the "vast majority of new Misplaced Pages editors", then. I forgot to sign my name the first few times, but after I realized that there's a handy-dandy shortcut to plug those four tildes in at the click of the button, I didn't think there was any reason for me to have to forget to sign my name again. JackALope044 (talk) 19:56, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

You must not be referring to your JackALope044 account; under that account, you've signed your username each and every time. Remarkable, though, that you forgot to sign only a few times; certainly not standard among WP:Newbies. Flyer22 (talk) 20:00, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Well, by "forgot to sign", I mean "forgot to sign, realized I forgot to sign, then went back and re-edited the talk page to include my signature". Sorry for the misunderstanding. JackALope044 (talk) 20:04, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

And again, you have yet to forget to sign your username as JackALope044, as your contribution shows. There is this, but it appears that you simply neglected to add the extra tilde, which sometimes happens to me. Flyer22 (talk) 20:07, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Oh, I see that you did forget to sign here, but that's the only instance that I see. Flyer22 (talk) 20:17, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

demiromantic

Didn't you read my comment? I started a conversation in Talk, but you ignored it and reverted. Bhny (talk) 00:53, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, Bhny, I saw your comment on the talk page. And I reverted (before reading it) because this and this revert concern matters that I disagree with; those reverts also barely have anything to do with the discussion you started on the talk page...yet. And I'm about to comment there. Flyer22 (talk) 00:58, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

PROD removed from Current news of india

Hello, Flyer22. Another editor removed a dated PROD tag from Current news of india. You reverted that edit using Huggle. Since the tag was PROD rather than speedy, though, any editor could remove it. A third editor has again removed the PROD tag. Cnilep (talk) 12:35, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Khomeini's 1988 massacre of Iranian dissidents

Hi, Since you've contributed to Khomeini's article, I was wondering could you add a new section for the 1988 executions of Iranian political prisoners. I think there should be a separate section for this massacre (just before Rushdie's section). The article also gives the absurd minimum figure of 1,400 executions, but when you click on the reference, it only lists the name of 1,400 of the 30 thousand executed; and it does not even suggest that only 1,400 were executed (he executed that many in the first year of his dictatorship, alone)! I also think it should be mentioned in the opening paragraph of the article. The reason that I did not add this new section myself, is that I hate the man (conflict of interest). Thanks. AtheistIranian (talk) 21:45, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

AtheistIranian, I'm not familiar with that topic; I simply reverted vandalism there. Flyer22 (talk) 21:57, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Allowance for contractions

At 02:26, 23 July 2014 you removed from WP:MOS "occasionally contractions provide the best solution anyway" (with this edit summary: Who added "occasionally contractions provide the best solution anyway" to this section? Was this discussed? In what ways are contractions the better solution, other than in quoted material?)
"Sometimes rewriting the sentence as a whole is preferable; and occasionally contractions provide the best solution anyway" was introduced at 06:23, 4 August 2011 by Noetica (with this edit summary: Tightened this; but it needs review anyway; in what circumstances is a contraction best left unexpanded?).
—Wavelength (talk) 03:15, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Wavelength; I didn't feel like looking into the edit history to see who added that (though I planned to do so eventually). For years, I've looked at that contractions section, and was recently brought back to it after this edit I made at the Michael Jackson article, but the "occasionally contractions provide the best solution anyway" bit has obviously continually escaped my mind; that contractions were somewhat condoned in the WP:Manual of Style (for reasons other than obviously being acceptable in quoted text) has been unintentionally ignored by me. As you've likely seen, I pointed to this section on my talk page in the WP:Manual of Style edit history so that editors can get more information on the matter; if one of them feels that the aforementioned addition should remain, they'll return it and hopefully tweak it so that it isn't vague. Flyer22 (talk) 03:46, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Dangun

Hi Flyer22, thanks for your input, however as you and any other history buff would know, the date of sources are very important, and needs to be highlighted especially in this case due to the length of time between the legend and its recording. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.10.111.130 (talk) 06:05, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

46.118.124.156

Thanks for reverting https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Chairman_of_the_Board_%28disambiguation%29&diff=next&oldid=618239832. However your edit summary said "Reverted 1 good faith edit by 46.118.124.156 using STiki", but this was not good faith at all but spam. I have blocked this IP. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 13:07, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, Graeme Bartlett. I reverted the edit as a WP:Assume good faith edit because the IP seemed to believe that he or she was doing a good thing. People who add WP:Spam usually do think that they are doing Misplaced Pages, if not the world, a favor. Flyer22 (talk) 13:14, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Chewing gum

Re: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Chewing_gum&oldid=prev&diff=564315463

Sorry, but you're wrong here. If you read the sentence fully you'll see it is referring to Wrigley being the largest maker in the world, not the US being the largest market for it in the world.

Edit on RT (TV network) article

I removed the sentences in question after checking the sources and finding that they were either false or blatant spin. RT was not founded as a PR campaign for the Russian government: that absolutely can not be proven to be fact in any way-- especially not with the source provided for such a statement. Also, the idea that Mikhail Lesin "conceived" the idea for RT because of one quote which has nothing to do with RT is ridiculous.

I edited the page because it is clearly being used as a propaganda platform for anti-Russians. I didn't edit anything to be biased towards any position-- I'm removing the bias so people can get real information without the bullshit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.212.51.224 (talk) 06:22, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

I changed the heading of this section from "Edit on RT page" to "Edit on RT (TV network) article" so that it is clearer as to what you are referring to. Yes, I reverted you here, and I stand by that revert. And what about you tampering with this quote? Flyer22 (talk) 06:30, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Ping

Fly, hope all is well with you. The ping is to ask you if we could move forward with the Todd article, since it's gonna be August in a couple of days, and my days of summer freedom will soon be over. I'm sure you're swamped, but wanted to check in and see if you could spare some time looking at my next group of changes. Thanks. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:09, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

I know that I need to get back to you at Talk:Todd Manning, Figureskatingfan. Lately, during the day, I've been absent from Misplaced Pages for several or more hours because, though my work is usually computer-related and therefore gives me ample access to the Internet, I've been dealing with a lot of non-computer work these days (and working out things long-distance over the phone). Then, when I get home, all I feel like doing is relaxing, reverting vandalism or other unconstructive edits when I finally do open up my laptop to see what mess has been going on at Misplaced Pages in the meantime, or working on the Lucy (2014 film) article. I haven't worked on a film article this much since the Avatar (2009 film) article, and I think that I might be interested in taking the Lucy (2014 film) article to WP:Good article status, especially since my writing (and knowledge of Misplaced Pages ways) has vastly improved since I elevated the Todd Manning and Avatar (2009 film) articles to WP:Good article status years ago.

As you know, I'll try to get back to you soon regarding the Todd Manning article. I think that because I know that there are going to be things that I disagree with you on regarding your rearrangement of the Reception and impact section, and my posts explaining why I disagree can be long (just as your posts explaining why you think your changes are beneficial can be long), I have been stalling on revisiting that matter. But I'll get back there in a day or so. I still "have to" report this sockpuppet matter, since I think that it is Pass a Method in his "best disguise" yet, still unable to stay away from topics (such as LGBT and Islamic topics) that he can never stay away from. So I might report that before getting back to you. And, yes, I'll try to be consistent, time-wise, by replying to you, so we can go ahead and get the Todd Manning article to the WP:Featured article review process. Flyer22 (talk) 23:37, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

I hear ya, pal. I anticipate feeling similarly in about four weeks, although sometimes, for me, editing can be a way to decompress. When I get busy, I'm lucky if I edit 90 minutes a day. I appreciate the time and effort you've put into helping improve the Todd article; I know that it can get long and complicated, especially when we disagree. These days, I've been dealing with a difficult personality off-line, so dealing with you has been a breath of fresh air. I'll miss our association when we're done with Todd. (Tea: But one can never truly be done with Todd!) ;)

I feel your pain with the sockpuppet biz, too. This guy has caused a few us no end of headaches. This diff is the perfect example of what he tries to pull. We can't figure out if he's evil, or just stupid. Exasperating, to be sure. We've even had prolonged discussions on FB chat. All that to say take your time. We've come so far, and worked so hard; I don't want a silly thing like RL responsibilities to get in the way. In the meantime, I'm having fun improving individual Sesame Street co-productions; currently, I'm working on the Mexican version. The main article is up at FAC now. So much fun! Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 03:31, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Looking at the blocklog of the guy you pointed to, it doesn't seem that he was using a different Misplaced Pages account (unless it's noted somewhere on his talk page that he was), but I do see that he was problematic and is now indefinitely blocked because of that problematic editing. As for the Todd Manning article, after we've replaced its contents with your Todd draft, and it's been through a WP:Featured article review, we'll still interact on that article or at least see each other there since we're both interested in that topic (that is, unless you decide to drop it from your WP:Watchlist). And you also told me that you're interested in working on the Todd Manning and Marty Saybrooke rape storylines article; if you do work on that, we'll interact there, but I might step back more on that article and let you reshape things without much of my input.

I hope that your offline dealings with the aforementioned personality get easier or stop if it's a matter that needs to stop. Flyer22 (talk) 04:05, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

I just went to YouTube, and this video about Roger Howarth bringing sexy back was recommended for me by the site. It's clips of Howarth from As the World Turns, where he had blond hair for quite some time; have you watched him on that series, and what do you think about him having blond hair? I noticed that he's also had blond hair as Franco, in the role that James Franco originated. He's had blond highlights as Todd, and full-on blond hair in Starr's cartoon daydreams (back when she was a child), but not full-on blond hair as Todd otherwise. He looks okay with blond hair, but I'm so used to him with brown hair. I and a lot of other people followed him to As the World Turns when he left the role of Todd in 2003, and I kind of got hooked on the Jack and Carly love story (Jack's amnesia story), but I didn't stick with that show for long. Flyer22 (talk) 06:46, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Billings, Missouri article

You are "Edit Warrinng". Your edit changes are NOT cogent. If you continue this behavior I will take this to the community for violation of rules and move to ban your edits. You must immediately stop your serial edit hsrassment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Burbank151 (talk • contribs) 12:29, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Burbank151 (talk · contribs), yes, yes, I reverted you here and here. Go ahead and report me; I won't be affected in any way. In the meantime, do read up on the way Misplaced Pages is supposed to work, starting with WP:Five pillars. And if you start a section on my talk page in the future, make sure that you start it in the appropriate place -- at the bottom, per Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines#Layout. As you can see, I moved your post to the correct spot and titled it. Also, remember to sign your username at the end of the comments you make on Misplaced Pages talk pages. All you have to do to sign your username is simply type four tildes (~), like this: ~~~~. A bot signed your username for you above. Flyer22 (talk) 12:40, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Oh, and Burbank151 (talk · contribs), you might want to actually source that material with a WP:Reliable source proving that the person is WP:Notable. I doubt that either of those listings are WP:Notable (read what Misplaced Pages considers notable by clicking on the WP:Notable page). Your listing, or both of those listings, will eventually be removed by someone. And if the person you listed is you or is related to you in some way (not necessarily biologically related), read WP:Conflict of interest. Flyer22 (talk) 00:59, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

GH057ayame - Eric Hewitt (article)

So essentially what you're saying is that I need to site proof of my changes? I have no problem linking all of my articles that demonstrate that proof, I just keep editing in a periodic fashion since it's hard for me to find time to sit down for 16 hours straight to edit my public page. Now, what bothers me the most, is that the information previously written about me is mostly false. It has been bothering me ever since I came across my own Wiki, and I've finally gotten around to getting things straightened out. Now, I'm not looking to fight with you. I'm merely looking to "right the ship" and appropriately fit in my true background information. If you could assist me along the way since I'm not too familiar with Misplaced Pages's rule set, it'd be greatly appreciated. Again, I'm just looking to give the full, true story - articles included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GH057ayame (talk • contribs) 16:52, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Rape article

Hi Flyer - thanks for comms RE the UCR (FBI) rape definition. The type of male victims I'm referring to are actually "forced envelopment" (aka "forced to penetrate" in NISVS) victims, rather than male-on-male. That includes males too intoxicated to consent to sex, males forced under threat to have sex with another, fellatio without consent etc - as included within the UN's definition ("sexual intercourse without valid consent") and - less transparently but confirmed - the 2012 UCR/FBI definition (see here).

The CDC's NISVS 2010 survey put the number of males "forced to penetrate" in the past 12 months at 1.3 million, which is more-or-less identical to the number of female victims. Clearly that's vastly different from the "95%" cited in the Misplaced Pages article, so I dug into the citation - turns out it was a 1997 BJS report that used the pre-2012 women-only definition of rape: "Forcible rape in the UCR program is limited to incidents involving female victims" (P6).

I've not identified a reliable up-to-date replacement source that studies the gender of rape victims without resorting to definitions that exclude most forms of non-consensual male sex. Therefore I've removed that "95%" sentence as outdated - hope you're in agreement. Cheers Psdie (talk) 21:30, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Psdie (talk · contribs) (this will be the only time I ping you via WP:Echo to this discussion, so you might want to keep checking back in the future for a reply). Regarding my edit summaries here, here and here, I did eventually understand what you meant, judging by your edit to the Rape in the United States article. I don't mind that you removed the 1997/1999 addition. That text has been an area of recent contention before; see Talk:Rape/Archive 20#unreliable source: The United States Department of Justice's definition. As seen in that discussion, I objected to the removal before because it was removed simply based on the claim that it is unreliable and biased, which was an action that is not supported by any Misplaced Pages policy or guideline, and because partial restoration of the text then misrepresented the source. But again, removing the entire text is fine with me, since your basis for removal is more convincing and since I stated in the aforementioned discussion (my "21:38, 8 November 2013 (UTC)" post), "I would prefer a significantly more updated statistic than that one in the lead."

That stated, since 2013 (or 2014 in the case of other editors), I've seen editors engaging in WP:Activism at the Rape in the United States, Rape by gender, Rape statistics, Campus rape, and a few other Misplaced Pages articles, regarding male victims of rape. We also now have a Male rape article that needs significant cleanup. Just in case you have not checked my user page (or missed my commentary on WP:Activism there), I'm not a fan of people who use Misplaced Pages for activism. I understand that male rape victims (men more so than boys) are underreported, that rape is still commonly defined as only a man having raped a girl or woman, and in some definitions a boy, but Misplaced Pages is not the place to try and change those matters. The definitions of rape you consider gender neutral are still missing from the vast majority of rape laws. It's still common that women aren't even charged with rape, as reflected by this recent edit that an editor made to the Rape statistics article. That's just the way things are, including regarding up-to-date references on rape, and it's because of this (besides being noted in the Statistics section of the Rape article) that I feel that statistics information in the lead of the Rape article should state something about the fact that rape victims are most commonly reported as female. From what I know of male and female biology, psychology, and crime rates, there is nothing that can convince me that there are as many male rape victims as there are female rape victims or as many female rapists as there are male rapists. But this is not about my opinion. It's about the sources, per the WP:Verifiability policy. It's not up to us to state, "Oh, we're not going to use these up-to-date definitions because they are biased against male victims of rape." What you can do is note the specific ways that these definitions exclude male rape victims, which is what I've seen you do. However, such information is usually not WP:Lead material and rather belongs lower in the article. This edit you made, for example, where you put the "or other forms of sexual penetration" text in parentheses based on your interpretation that it helps clarify something about male rape victims, is not beneficial to me. We note in the "Penetrative and non-penetrative" section below that other forms of sexual penetration (such as forced sexual penetration with a bottle) are defined as rape in many jurisdictions, and we don't have that in parentheses; nor should we. This is despite the fact that, in law, rape is still most commonly defined as only penile-vaginal sex or penile-vaginal or penile-anal sex, with everything else being termed sexual assault. Flyer22 (talk) 10:11, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi Flyer22 (talk · contribs) - qood to hear we're generally in agreement. After my previous edit, I actually did further research into the 2012 UCR (FBI) definition of rape and found that it *does* (albeit with poor clarity) include males forced to penetrate a female. See clear, unambigious confirmation from Mary P. Reese of the FBI's CJIS Division's Crime Statistics Management Unit (the main contact on the FBI's updated definition FAQ).

Thus the problem is not actually with the updated 2012 US definition of rape, it's with the citation on WP of studies that use outdated gender-biased definitions as if they were current. Correction of these mistakes is a matter of factual accuracy, not WP:Activism - indeed individuals that cherry-pick long-outdated stats to make the number of male victims appear lower than female are those practicing WP:Activism. This is no more accurate than using an outdated definition that excludes rape-within-marriage.

The article lead originally implied it is always the penetrated individual that is the victim - this is factually incorrect, per the UCR and UN definitions, hence the clarification. Psdie (talk) 17:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Psdie, I stated above, "The definitions of rape you consider gender neutral are still missing from the vast majority of rape laws." See this section of my user page about the WP:Due weight policy. That is exactly what I mean when it comes to this rape matter. You can of course disagree with the definitions of rape that you consider outdated and biased, but those definitions are the definitions of rape used in the vast majority of the world. I pointed out in the aforementioned FBI discussion that forced non-penetrative sex (the exclusively non-penetrative aspect), for example, is hardly ever defined as rape, and that matter is considered outdated and biased by people, but we are not going to exclude the commonly accepted definitions and research using those commonly accepted definitions simply because people have a problem with that. The same goes for your problem with definitions of rape that exclude "males forced to penetrate a female." The vast majority of studies on rape, and therefore WP:Reliable sources about rape, exclude "males forced to penetrate a female" and other sexual matters that you would perhaps like to see defined as rape; Misplaced Pages should not bend over backwards to accommodate the minority view, which is exactly what the WP:Due weight policy is about. Misplaced Pages is not supposed to give as much weight to the minority view as it does to the majority view. It is not the place to "correct mistakes" that are perpetuated by society at large. As for your explanation of having added the parentheses, because you feel that "he article lead originally implied it is always the penetrated individual that is the victim," I disagree. But I am not very interested in reverting you on that (it's a simple parentheses matter that I doubt many people will look at in the way that you have), and so it has remained physically uncontested.

And just for documentation here on my talk page, I am not the one who added that FBI data to the lead (except for when I reverted the editor shown in the aforementioned FBI discussion or any tweak I might have made to it before then); but when someone removes something from a Misplaced Pages article, they had better use a rationale that complies with Misplaced Pages, rather than "I removed it because I personally think it's biased.," if they don't want another editor to revert them. I already stated that your rationale for having removed that piece is fine with me. Flyer22 (talk) 17:44, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Reliable source showing more pedophiles are homosexual

Could you please give your thoughts on this information which should be added into the Pedophilia article? Others on the talk page have said it shouldn't. I disagree since the source and information seem accurate. Thanks. DMSMD (talk) 09:03, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

You mean aside from the fact that it's 22 years old? --Man way 09:04, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

DMSMD (talk · contribs), I've left that discussion up to others to reply to you on; if I had felt the need to reply, I would have. I might still reply regarding that, but I doubt it. Flyer22 (talk) 10:11, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Flyer22 could you at least chime in on whether or not the info is accurate and/or the source is reliable. You seem to be in favor of censorship when it comes to LGBT issues if the information is not politically correct, however you also appear to be an informed prolific Misplaced Pages editor that may have some insight on this controversial matter. Thanks. DMSMD (talk) 00:47, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

See this section on my user page? I stand by that, I operate like that, and never does it involve "censorship when it comes to LGBT issues if the information is not politically correct." These "politically correct" arguments that editors are throwing my way lately, meaning yours and this one at the War rape talk page, are flimsy. You have had equally, and more so, qualified people answer you at that talk page, including psychologist/sexologist James Cantor and WP:MED editor Zad68. You do not need me weighing in on it. And, without having read IP 173.228.91.3's latest response, I can see by the length of his or her post, that I have enough to reply to regarding that matter. But I will speak of the age of the source to you now: It's been pointed out as too old to you before, including above on my talk page, and that the results should have been replicated by now if they are reliable; those points are key aspects of how Misplaced Pages treats research matters, especially medical matters. See Misplaced Pages:Identifying reliable sources (medicine)#Definitions, Misplaced Pages:Identifying reliable sources (medicine)#Respect secondary sources and Misplaced Pages:Identifying reliable sources (medicine)#Use up-to-date evidence. The Respect secondary sources section, for example, states, "If no review on the subject is published in a reasonable amount of time, then the content and primary source should be removed." It also states, "A reason to avoid primary sources in the biomedical field—especially papers reporting results of in vitro experiments—is that they are often not replicable and are therefore unsuitable for use in generating encyclopedic, reliable content about health." It then gives an example. Flyer22 (talk) 01:35, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Concur with Flyer here and also replied at article Talk page. Zad68 03:18, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Flyer you mentioned you've been accused of being heterosexist. If you don't mind could you please give some examples of this? Also you wrote on your User Page "I could be LGBT or heterosexual, for all you know". Just curious, why do you keep your sexual orientation private? I ask this because many people who actively edit on Misplaced Pages (esp. on LGBT and sexuality articles) identify themselves using various sexual orientation userboxes. Please get back to me, thanks. DMSMD (talk) 04:03, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

An example of someone on Misplaced Pages calling me heterosexist, or pretty much calling me that? Sure. Here is an example: User talk:Flyer22/Archive 12#Gender.

As for why I don't identify my sexual orientation on Misplaced Pages, there are two reasons. First: Once a person identifies their sexual orientation, religion, "race" (I put "race" in quotation marks because I don't believe in "race"; I believe in clines), and sometimes even their sex, on Misplaced Pages, it's often the case that the person is accused of having an agenda if they edit a topic related to what they identify as. It's also often the case that the person who has identified on Misplaced Pages with any of the aforementioned identities is discriminated against (ones who identify as white or heterosexual to a lesser degree, but bias is still claimed often enough). For example, a person who identifies as heterosexual and edits a sexual topic that just so happens to mostly conform to a heterosexual view is likely to be accused of heterosexism by a LGBT member; I've seen that happen more than once. It's vice versa for a LGBT person editing a LGBT topic and encountering a heterosexual on that topic; I've seen that even more so. And if a person identifies as Christian on their user page or by any other religion, and edits religious topics, then watch out. Watch the fireworks! Identifying as any of those things on Misplaced Pages, except for maybe whether you are male, female or identify as intersex, is often not beneficial and commonly leads to ammo that another Misplaced Pages editor can use against you. That is the dirty side of Misplaced Pages. Even identifying as male or female can get one accused of bias; because I'm female, I've been called a feminist and as pushing a feminist agenda. See User talk:Flyer22/Archive 14#About the "vow", for example. I don't identify as a feminist, even though I believe in equal rights for women. Too much of feminism is too political, and often too radical, for my tastes. The only reason I've identified on my user page that I'm not religious is so that it's clear, at least to those who believe me, that I am never editing from a religious point of view. Yes, we all have biases, but unlike many editors at this site, I do my best to leave my biases off Misplaced Pages. I cannot stress enough how much it angers me to see editors engaging in WP:Activism.

The other reason that I don't reveal my sexual orientation on Misplaced Pages is because (like I told a fellow Wikipedian via email, one I also have not disclosed my sexual orientation to) I like the ambiguity; I like editors not knowing, with some editors thinking that I'm heterosexual and other editors thinking that I'm LGBT. I like that there may be some editors who think that I'm asexual due to my significant work on the Asexuality article. I like editors being so certain (what they think is certainty of my sexual orientation), and yet still lacking that confirmation. That includes one or more WP:CheckUsers who checked through my data and may have wondered whether I focused on a sexual topic for research or personal interest, or whether someone else using my computer did. On a side note: With the exception of some LGBT people, I don't see many people who edit sexual topics on Misplaced Pages identifying their sexual orientation on their user page.

Now let me ask you a question: Who are you when it comes to your experience with editing Misplaced Pages? You don't strike me as new to editing Misplaced Pages in the least. Signing your username with each post, looking in the edit history to see what I've stated, relaying that "many people who actively edit on Misplaced Pages (esp. on LGBT and sexuality articles) identify themselves using various sexual orientation userboxes." I know a non-WP:Newbie when I see him or her, and you are one. If you continue editing Misplaced Pages for long enough, I'll eventually figure out who you are; I usually do figure out people's past Misplaced Pages accounts, regardless of how good they think they are at disguising themselves and regardless of whether or not I reveal their past identities to the Misplaced Pages community. Flyer22 (talk) 05:46, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Flyer22 thanks for your response. It's interesting that you reveal certain bits of information about yourself but keep other info private. As far as who I am yes I have edited articles on WP in the past (about five years ago) but due to work and a hectic busy life I no longer have the time. I prefer spending my leisure time doing other things like watching TV, reading books, reading various articles on WP, listening to music, etc. I have a few questions for you and then I'll leave you alone : ) When you say "I'll eventually figure out who you are; I usually do figure out people's past Misplaced Pages accounts" how do you go about doing this, are you psychic *sarcasm* or do you have exceptional memory, or something like that? Once you "figure out" who certain users or sockpuppets are, what do you base your decision on as to whether or not to report them to Misplaced Pages community "higher-ups" such as admins or checkusers? You wrote "I have significant knowledge in the social/scientific/psychological/sexual fields... Specific detail on my credentials are without mention on Misplaced Pages". If you have credentials in specific fields of knowledge why are you keeping those credentials secret, I would think that would lend you more credibilty in terms of editing articles on Misplaced Pages. Last question: I'm a little confused by this sentence "When it comes to Pensacola, Florida, Flyer has no interest in staying long, and may often venture out to Los Angeles, California or New York City" - so do you currently live in Pensacola? The wording "venture out" is confusing to me also, do you visit those two cities for vacation or is it work-related or something else like that? Get back to me when you can, thanks again. DMSMD (talk) 07:22, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Nah, I don't trust you. For example, going so far back into my user page edit history that you come across a birth date that I posted, but later removed because I no longer want it on my user page? Yep, you won't be getting any more personal information out of me. But like I stated, keep editing Misplaced Pages long enough under your new Misplaced Pages account and I'll know who you are sooner rather than later. Flyer22 (talk) 07:25, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

I am confused, you don't trust me? The questions that I inquired about are mostly related to Misplaced Pages and editing on Misplaced Pages articles if you go back and read my last post. Can you at least answer those questions? If you don't want to answer the personal questions no problem. As odd as this sounds the birthday thing I actually recalled from memory, I didn't go back into your edit history to find it (I know you may think I'm making that up but I'm not, I have Asperger's and have very good memory when it comes to remembering peoples dates of birth and certain number sequences, even on obscure things like a WP userpage). The reason I probably remember it is that over the years viewing people's user pages only a very small percent (apx. 1%) post their actual birth dates on WP. DMSMD (talk) 07:39, 6 August 2014 (UTC)