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Talk:Comparison between Roman and Han Empires

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Comparison between Roman and Han Empires. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 02:11, 17 December 2009 (UTC) (Using {{Please see}})

AFD for Comparison between Roman and Han Empires

You are invited to join the discussion at for Comparison between Roman and Han Empires, since you have participated in the last AFD. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 23:28, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Comparison between Roman and Han Empires

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Comparison between Roman and Han Empires (2nd nomination). Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:05, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

friendly warning

Do not call me like that. Be civil. Xashaiar (talk) 13:39, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

It wasn't meant as an insult (afaik Xash isn't an insult), I simply didn't remember your full name. I was in haste to change the text before somebody else reverted my revert. Flamarande (talk) 13:43, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

It is OK. Insulting me was not what my warning was supposed to address. My name is the name of a good person, so do not insult Him. :) Xashaiar (talk) 13:53, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Article 231

Thank you so much for all your kind words, and for your improvements to the Article 231 page. I have posted some ideas for further improvement to the page. Please have a wonderful day.--A.S. Brown (talk) 22:25, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Nominations for the March 2010 Military history Project Coordinator elections now open!

The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process has started; to elect the coordinators to serve for the next six months. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 (UTC) on 8 March 2010! More information on coordinatorship may be found on the coordinator academy course and in the responsibilities section on the coordinator page.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 21:31, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Forgot to Sign

Hello. Please sign off at your vote at Talk:Kazimierz Pułaski. Thanks. Dr. Dan (talk) 01:37, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

John Hunyadi

Hello, may i ask you to try to resolve the edit dispute that is currently ongoing on the John Hunyadi article. The problem was discussed but it looks like some wiki members choose to ignore the discussion page. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.2.97.229 (talk) 16:42, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom/Article title

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom/Article title. DrKiernan (talk) 09:05, 18 March 2010 (UTC) (Using {{Please see}})

Coordinator elections have opened!

Voting for the Military history WikiProject coordinator elections has opened; all users are encouraged to participate in the elections. Voting will conclude 23:59 (UTC) on 28 March 2010.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 21:48, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Deletion discussion: Comparison between roman and han empires

Hello. You are invited to take part in the deletion discussion on the redirect Comparison between roman and han empires. Regards Gun Powder Ma (talk) 02:03, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Moved your reply

Just to let you know, I moved you reply so it is above Bilby's one as I believe that is where it should be based on indenting. I understand in cases like this where you are replying to something where the indentation is already confused, it's difficult to know what to do but given the collapse box which I don't know who added, it was rather confusing in the old location. Nil Einne (talk) 21:42, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Civis Romanus sum

The problem is, the Romans actually wrote CIVISROMANVSSVM, so we're already modifying it. I figured it was better to eliminate the redundancy of having the phrase both with and without macrons, and modern Latin texts quite often do include macrons (as well as ‹u› vs. ‹v›), at least at first. — ˈzɪzɨvə (talk) 01:38, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Paul of Tarsus name discssion

Since you contributed to the discussion on a name change of Saint Bartholomew, you may be interested in the discussion on a name change for Paul of Tarsus. Cjc13 (talk) 15:33, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

leave the proper title of the book

Thanks for picking up on that careless mistake of mine. Much appreciated.Dejvid (talk) 13:32, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Humanities reference desk

I don't conceive that there's a personal quarrel between us, and I'm not approaching the discussions there from that angle. Unfortunately, however, you for some reason chose to adopt a deliberately and intentionally provocative tone, and seem to feel rather free to dogmatically pontificate at length, even while having only a rather sketchy knowledge of the facts of the situation under discussion. I'm not the only one who finds this rhetorical strategy on your part to be rather grating (cf. the "S-O-A-P-B-O-X" comment made before I ever replied to you at all), nor do I apologize for bringing your far-flung provocations into contact with basic reality, even if I have to be somewhat brusque and abrupt in order to do so. If you want a conversation to flow smoothly, then maybe you should avoid behaving in a manner which other people can easily interpret as deliberately and intentionally trying to be obnoxious. AnonMoos (talk) 10:00, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I didn't say that you insulted anybody -- I said that you (for some reason) chose to adopt a deliberately and intentionally provocative tone, and seemed to feel rather free to dogmatically pontificate at length (even while having only a rather sketchy knowledge of the facts of the situation under discussion), resulting in a overall rhetorical style which I was not the only one to find rather grating and annoying. You had several opportunities to dial things down a notch, but chose not to take advantage of any of them, giving the end results which can now be seen in the Humanities ref. desk thread... AnonMoos (talk) 11:46, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Rape of Belgium

This poster in the context of this page is representing or showing propagnda. But he doesn't represent but propaganda but also reality. So it is neutral to write it with a verifiable source. You are placing many citation needed and when I give a citation, you would remove it.This placard is not only propaganda. I insistated in many paragraphs on the explanations of these atrocities. It is not anti-German. Sincrely José Fontaine (talk) 13:32, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

I understand what you mean. But this placard, placed on this page is a Metaphor as also the Rape of Belgium itself incidentally. A metaphor, is not à la lettre true (There was not in the proper sense a rape of Belgium and Belgium is not a girl, but well in the figurative sense). There is also a rape of the International Right. So the placard is actual in a figurative sense. I agree with you to bring nuances to this way of speaking but it is historically right a rape happened. Because the German Chancelor recognized it (as far the inernational right is concerned), and for the massacres in Dinant for instance by the German Government in May 2002. In doing so, Germany show she is a great country. The German politics, since Willy Brandt (but before too), toward the Eastern countries, toward the jews, toward Belgium (etc.), is a great politics. The page ought to say it. Sincerely, José Fontaine (talk) 11:50, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Martens Clause

You made some edits to the article Martens Clause please see WP:NOTBROKEN: Do not "fix" links to redirects that are not broken. -- PBS (talk) 04:34, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Roman Empire

I see you're trying to keep the Gibbon bit about Christianity in Roman Empire. Are you familiar enough with Gibbon to come up with a more precise citation? That would give you better grounds for keeping it. I support its inclusion, but don't have time to find a proper citation. Cynwolfe (talk) 00:18, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I think I clicked on the wrong talk link; yours was nearby. Cynwolfe (talk) 16:48, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Roman army

I want to report User:Revilo11 for vandalism on the Roman army article, which I have now reversed. Since you know your way around Wiki much better than me, can I leave this matter in your capable hands? Regards EraNavigator (talk) 09:59, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Leave him, hopefully he will not return. If he returns then we can report him. Flamarande (talk) 23:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

PS: Could you add your opinion to the debate on dating-conventions in the Discussion Page of Imperial Roman army? User:Awien has taken it upon himself to change the BC/AD convention that I used to BCE/CE. I am keen to get as many opinions as possible on this. Regards EraNavigator (talk) 10:07, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

I hope you knew what my opinion about the BCE/CE crap was. Awien acted unilaterally against the rules and despite having no consensus~for the change. The ball is in his field now. Flamarande (talk) 23:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your decisive intervention. I hope Awien now disappears and stops hassling everyone with this politically correct nonsense. How do you rate my Roman army project so far? Have you also read Early Roman army and Roman army of the mid-Republic? Regards EraNavigator (talk) 19:29, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

My intervention was nothing special and the issue might yet be revived by Awien. I have a taken a look in some of these articles and I'm very impressed. My only advice is that you provide more precise citations from your books. Presently you have whole paragraphs without a citation; the ideal is to provide a citation for every fifth or sixth sentence (the most important ones). Flamarande (talk) 08:53, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

You are certainly right about Roman army of the mid-Republic. I reckon it needs some 50 extra refs to bring it up to scratch. Unfortunately, I am not very disciplined about entering refs - I tend to write first, find refs later - not a good procedure! PS: there are several of my articles which are currently un-graded, including Roman army, Early Roman army, Roman army of the mid-Republic, Imperial Roman army, Alpine regiments of the Roman army, Raeti, Costoboci, Equites cataphractarii, Equites singulares Augusti. The big ones I will eventually submit for A-grade. In the meantime, could you award B-grade to these (if they deserve it, of course), as grading seems to have some deterrent effect on vandals/casual editing. regards EraNavigator (talk) 14:44, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Great user page

Hi. Just wanted to say that - I am also a fan of quotations. --Belchman (talk) 15:25, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

September 2010

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Misplaced Pages, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Shōjo manga, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 05:00, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

From time to time I use a computer with a small screen. The former placing of the two images (in a separate section below the manga box) created a large empty space. By placing the two images above (directly below the manga box) this 'empty space' is corrected (without any problems that I know of to users with large screens). Thank you. Flamarande (talk) 17:10, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we would like to remind you not to attack other editors, as you did on Talk:People's Republic of China. Please comment on the contributions and not the contributors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. You are welcome to rephrase your comment as a civil criticism of the article. Honestly: you can forget your proposal seems unduly harsh and unnecessary. Ngchen (talk) 02:28, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

The Milhist election has started!

The Military history WikiProject coordinator election has started. You are cordially invited to help pick fourteen new coordinators from a pool of twenty candidates. This time round, the term has increased from six to twelve months so it is doubly important that you have your say! Please cast your vote here no later than 23:59 (UTC) on Tuesday, 28 September 2010.

With many thanks in advance for your participation from the coordinator team,  Roger Davies 21:39, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi

Please wait while I finish updating the article. While it is no rule, the courtesy would require that I would be allowed to finish my edits. Also I see no reason for such clutter of barely reckognisable images that make reading of the text difficult-especially if we have better versions, quite visible.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 00:20, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I was under the impression that you were finished for today. The pictures are not cluttered if they are all on the same side and have the same size. Notice also that the article is not only about the genocide it is de facto about the whole war, campaign, and background. Therefore the other pictures are valuable because they provide details of the conflict's background. Flamarande (talk) 00:31, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Why do we need two pictures of von Trotha? Especially if the other one is barely visible? --MyMoloboaccount (talk) 00:32, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

In my screen (1440 X 900 px) the article is lacking in pictures to accompany the text. What we could do is move the first picture (of the starving survivors) below (into the 'Number of victims'-section) and move the larger Trotha-picture to its place. The larger picture (of the main responsible) can then be at the side of the "content's box" without problem (something which the present picture can't do - it's simply too small). Flamarande (talk) 00:43, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Disagree-the picture of victims of the genocide needs to be first. I see no reason for two pictures of von Trotha, especially as the second one barely shows him. The same with other duplicates--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 00:45, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

As I said "in my screen the article lacks pictures". If you really want to remove the smaller Trotha-picture, fine by me. But the "Theodor Leutwein with Hendrik Witbooi (2nd on the left?) in 1896"-picture is relevant for the whole conflict and has to stay. Flamarande (talk) 00:51, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Both Leutwin and Witbooi have their own clear pictures, we don't need one where it even isn't clear who is who on the picture.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 00:53, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

But the fact that there was civil encounter/relation between the two (shown by the picture) before the conflict is quite important. This article is not only about the genocide, it also about the background of the rebellion, the rebellion itself, and the aftermath. This picture has to stay. Flamarande (talk) 00:59, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Comments on Talk:Byzantine Empire

Is 'This isn't a factual/political/cultural/historical battleground. Spare your breath and stop preaching your gospel.' really necessary? I'd already said pretty much the same thing to him, in civil terms, and I don't think there's a need to talk like that to someone who has already confessed to being a kid. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 18:38, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Limigantes

Hi. Some one has re-directed Limigantes to the article on the Antes people. In fact, there is no connection between the two. The Limigantes were probably the indigenous people of the Hungarian Plain, subject to their overlords, the Iazyges, a Sarmatian tribe, while the Antes were a Sarmatian, later Slavic, people of the S. Russian steppe. The main author of Antes, User:Hxseek, has confirmed to me that he is not responsible for this re-direction, and agrees with me that there is no connection. Do you know how to "de-re-direct" Limigantes from this article? Limigantes should be re-directed to Iazyges. Can you handle this please? Cheers EraNavigator (talk) 10:01, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Bringing this here, rather than clutter the desks

Hey. Maybe our definitions of 'rude' differ, but I consider it rude to tell someone "you could have found it yourself in 5 minutes" when doing something they asked. Whether or not you intended to be rude, it reads as rude: I cannot see your expression or hear the tone of your voice. If you had said "I found this by (insert route to articles), which you could do in future", that wouldn't be rude and would be helpful. If they had actually been able to find those articles themselves without prompting, they would have done so. Even then, we've surely all had those blank moments when we can't find something that seems obvious once we've asked, or once someone else points it out. But this sort of question (essentially "I can't find/understand this information in the articles I've found, and I can't find the article that should contain this") is why the desks were created. If you don't like answering this sort of question, if answering it makes you resent the asker or consider them lazy, then do not answer this sort of quesion. Please don't start making comments about how they shouldn't have asked. 86.164.144.120 (talk) 11:39, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

If you are unable to see my expression or hear the tone of my voice then perhaps you should assume good faith of my part. "It reads as rude" only reveals your own personal interpretation and suspicions. "If they had actually been able to find those articles themselves without prompting, they would have done so." is a joke, right? It has to be a joke. I did not make a comment about how he shouldn't have asked. I just pointed out that the answer was extremely easy to find: "Let me point out that you could have found the answers for yourself in 5 minutes". Flamarande (talk) 14:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I came here for the same reason, to inform you of different definition of rudeness. However, I prefer to clutter the desk instead of letting here my POV. See: ].80.58.205.34 (talk) 12:50, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Look you two, I didn't insult the original questioner. I just and only pointed out that the answer was extremely easy to find: "Let me point out that you could have found the answers for yourself in 5 minutes". Perhaps the original questioner had a mental blank (which we all suffer from to time to time) perhaps he is simply lazy (it's easier to ask than to look for the proper articles), perhaps he is mentally handicapped. He and all of us are clearly advised to look for our answers ourselves first: Is there any way I can get a faster answer? Yes, you can search first. Please do this.

Either way IF HE has a problem with my answer he will tell me so/complain to me personally. I do not believe that he or the Humanity reference desk needs a "Knight in shining armour mounted upon the horse of good manners, a true Paladin of Politeness defending the highest standards of friendship against the barbarian hordes of rudeness" (rudeness which the Paladin himself defines). I hope that you all agree.

Under this strange definition of rudeness the following: Is there any way I can get a faster answer? Yes, you can search first. Please do this. is a rude advice, right? Perhaps the paladins among us should complain asap. Flamarande (talk) 14:14, 11 November 2010 (UTC) PS: Read my user-page: I am politically incorrect. Hence, I will use common sense and speak plainly rather than trip all over myself trying to be inoffensive.

I am not saying that you intended to be rude, I am saying that the words you used, in the way you phrased them, read as rude to people (as the other user has pointed out) who come from the US and the UK, and probably other western European countries (but I am unsure of that). The note at the top of the page was carefully written (through discussion on the talk page) so as not to be rude. it would be possible, speaking face to face, to convey your words in a soft, friendly manner: that would not be rude. But when written down, they become rude because the default reading of them is not soft and friendly.

Please don't start on the 'white knighting' business: we are a community, with basic community standards of behaviour, and it is the business of all of us to point out when something is unhelpful or rude. That is how a community works. Since you were apparently unaware that what you said was rude (and unhelpful, since it doesn't tell them how they could have found it), my informing you has increased your knowledge. It would be a shame if nobody told you, and you were unintentionally insulting people for years who all assumed you meant it (since it would be obvious to them that it was rude). Any insults you deliver should be intentional, for effective communication :) 86.164.144.120 (talk) 14:48, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree that Flamarande's wording reads as rude and/or arrogant to people in English-speaking countries. (Having lived in Germany, I can also vouch that many behaviors that would be considered rude in English-speaking countries are normal in Germany.) Apart from variable cultural definitions of rudeness, I would point out that Flamarande cannot know that the person who posted the question could have found the information in 5 minutes. We have no idea how much or how little skill this person has at searching for information. Those of us who answer on the Reference Desk are very skilled at finding information. Hopefully, we are happy to help others who are less skilled and feel no need to scold them for lacking that skill. I think that we have to assume that if the person asks for the information, he or she does not know how to find it. We should feel free to say, "You can find this kind of information by typing your topic into the Search box" without scolding the person for not doing so. In the case of this person's question, it would not have been easy to find the information just by typing key words from their question into the Search box. Really, it would be necessary to know the labels for the different structures of government—a level of knowledge that we have no right to expect from the questioner. Marco polo (talk) 18:28, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I believe that I can know if someone can find the relevant information about Presidential systems in 5 minutes or less. If you looking for information about Presidential systems you logically type President in the search-field, hit enter, and voila. The article will give you the wanted information. Less than 5 minutes. It takes more effort and requires some knowledge about the inner workings of Misplaced Pages to find the relevant Humanities page. At least that's my honest opinion in this matter. Flamarande (talk) 20:05, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

I note there is a related discussion of sorts on the Reference Desk Talk Page, and nobody involved has thought to notify you: I will be reminding those involved that they should have told you, since community standards of behaviour cut both ways. You could, of course, have found it yourself in less than 5 minutes, if you had known to look :P The last sentence was a joke, and not intended as a genuine remonstration. 86.164.144.120 (talk) 21:03, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Ganga commonname

Please study the reason behind wp:Commonname, Ganga is an exception to the rule, and this exception is not based on facts. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 04:34, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

LOL, riiiight. Please watch some English-speaking TV (like CNN, BBC World, Sky One, etc). You might also consider to read some English books about this river. They use the name 'Ganges' and not Ganga. And that is what Commonname is all about. Flamarande (talk) 19:40, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I had left that unanswered, we need hard evidence in the form of wp:V, anecdotal evidence doesnot work, anyways the example has been taken off, please check wp:COMMONNAME.Yogesh Khandke (talk) 06:00, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Talkback: SpikeToronto

Nomination for deletion of Template:Byzantine Empire timeline infobox

Template:Byzantine Empire timeline infobox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Mhiji (talk) 11:54, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Dacia

Template:WikiProject Dacia Invitation --Codrin.B (talk) 05:32, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Hypatia

Flamarande

Would you change the caption under the so-called picture of Hypatia in lead position on the existing Wiki page Hypatia to "Hypatia as possibly imagined by Raphael", unless you have evidence to support the fact that this of certainty an

image of Raphael's imagining of Hypatia.  

The evidence so far cited amounts to "some consider it as" without any reference to who considers it so: furthermore a story is "alleged to have" happened concerning the switch of Raphael imagining Hypatia to Raphael imagining Francesco Maria della Rovere. It's all very hypothetical.

The existing Wiki "School of Athens" article says the Raphael Hypatia link has not yet been verified. I have seen no articles to support that this is of certainty Raphael's imagining of Hypatia.

Future Perfect at Sunrise writes in reply to my comment on EditingTalk Hypatia "Raphael didn't think anything about her appearance", so it seems ridiculous to have a caption that says Raphael is going to the trouble of imagining her under the said picture.

Best to you, Barroncd (talk) 05:39, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

I've had so many hornets editing I'm ceasing activity.

We have to read the article School of Athens carefully. IMHO the identification as Hypatia is more or less sure (there is no question mark behind her name), while the Fayum picture misidentification as Hypatia was probably a mistake created in internet site and then propagated through the web. The Hypatia-talkpage is the best place for this discussion. Flamarande (talk) 13:44, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

John VI of João VI of Portugal

Hi, Flamarande. Did you read the reasons stated for the change, including that historians prefer to use "João"? Examples:

1. Brazil: The Forging of a Nation, 1798-1852, by Roderick J. Barman (1988).
2. Citizen Emperor: Pedro II and the Making of Brazil, 1825-1891, by Roderick J. Barman (1999).
3. Princess Isabel of Brazil: gender and power in the nineteenth century, by Roderick J. Barman (2002).
4. Dom Pedro: the struggle for liberty in Brazil and Portugal, 1798-1834. by Neill Macaulay (1986).
5. The history of Brazil, by Robert M. Levine (1999).
6. Isabel Orleans-Bragança: the Brazilian princess who freed the slaves, by James McMurtry Longo (2008).
7. The Brazil reader: history, culture, politics, by Robert M. Levine and John J. Crocitti (1999).
8. A history of modern Brazil: the past against the future, by Colin M. MacLachlan (2003).
9. Brazil: empire and republic, 1822-1930, by Leslie Bethell (1989).
10. Brazil: The Once and Future Country, by Marshall C. Eakin (1998).
11. Brazil, by Errol Lincoln Uys (2000).
12. Brazil, by Jane Ladle (1999).
13. A reference guide to Latin American history, by James D. Henderson (2000).
14. Tropical Versailles: empire, monarchy, and the Portuguese royal court in Rio de Janeiro, 1808-1821, by Kirsten Schultz (2001).
15. The Portuguese empire, 1415-1808: a world on the move, by A. J. R. Russell-Wood (1998).
16. The history of Portugal, by James Maxwell Anderson (2000).
17. The Independence of Latin America, by Leslie Bethell (1987).
18. Empires and colonies, by Jonathan Hart (2008).
19. Americanos: Latin America's struggle for independence, by John Charles Chasteen (2008).
20. Exotic nations: literature and cultural identity in the United States and Brazil, 1830-1930, by Renata Ruth Mautner Wasserman (1994).
21. Brazil, by Harry Greenbaum (2003).

His mother and antecessor is called Maria I of Portugal (not Marie II) and his son and successor is called Pedro I of Brazil not Peter I. American and British historians do not anglicize their names and the articles need consistency. Kind regards, --Lecen (talk) 12:45, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

This is not the proper place for a debate over a move-request. The talk-page of the article serves that purpose. Flamarande (talk) 12:51, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I won't bother you anymore. I was just trying to clarify the matter. Regards, --Lecen (talk) 13:03, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Crisis of the Roman Republic

Thank you for your copyedits. If you can spare any more time on this, I would appreciate it. I don't anticipate having more time to do more research until next week. Bearian (talk) 23:23, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Literature of Somalia RM

Hi Flamarande. You !voted support at the requested move discussion, which has been relisted. Since you last commmented, consensus has shifted slightly to support "Somalian literature" rather than "Somali literature". Can you revisit the above discussion to either re-affirm your support or to take a new stance on the RM? Thanks, Dabomb87 (talk) 22:46, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

"Equipment and vehicles of the Imperium in Warhammer 40,000"

Instead of making it a one entry list, wouldn't redirecting Equipment and vehicles of the Imperium in Warhammer 40,000 to vehicles of the Imperium in Warhammer 40,000 be better? That way when the target is deleted, so will this as being a redirect. 65.93.12.101 (talk) 10:04, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

'When the target is deleted' is being optimistic. It seems that several 40K fans have voted against its deletion. IF it gets deleted at all (and IMHO all these articles should never have been written in the first place) I plan to place a speedy deletion request. Let me deal with one problem at a time. There is no hurry. Flamarande (talk) 18:22, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

BC/BCE in WP:ERA

Hi, and thanks for the message on my talk page. I've created a new discussion at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Judaism/Manual of Style#Section on Gregorian calendar .28BCE.29 dates and WP:NPOV, in an effort to get that arbitrarily added bit removed from the WikiProject MOS there. If we do reach consensus to have it removed, we can then remove the bit you've added to WP:ERA, which I believe defies the whole purpose of WP:ERA's policy of not preferring one notation over the other. If we allow that to stay, eventually people will want to add that BCE/CE are preferable for Hindu-related articles as well, or Buddhism-related articles, or any history-related articles at all. I disagree, as I think it is BCE/CE that are the euphemistic PC terms that should be diminished in use, not the other way around. I think you'd agree. — CIS | stalk) 08:41, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, I have just come here from Ancient Greek architecture to ask, out of curiosity, why you have changed the BCE/CE dates that I conscientiously inserted for BC/AD, which I would normally use because most of my articles relate to Christianity in some way or another.

OK! What I have just discovered is that I don't need to be P.C. I'll stop now. toodle-oo! Amandajm (talk) 16:13, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Amy Winehouse

The Advocate article that I inserted as a reference into the Amy Winehouse article has Winehouse describing herself as "bi". Why did you take issue with it as a source? Asarelah (talk) 23:54, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

"Too many categories"

Hi, I do not consider a substantial number of categories to be a defect.
They simply need to be accurate.
Varlaam (talk) 18:56, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Some of these categories are a bit dubious and contradictory. Where is the required source about Amy Winehouse's religion? Did she regularly attend Jewish religious ceremonies? Did she say that she followed Judaism? Do we simply inherit our parents religion perhaps? Was she a singer of London? Was she a singer of a specific district of London? Flamarande (talk) 19:02, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not concerned about the Jewish issue. Your decision there was a reasonable one. At present, Jewish appears to be her background more than a faith that she practised actively. But "Jewish" is both ethnic and religious. You can have a Jewish atheist or a Jewish Christian. So a category like English Jews can be using either meaning; it's ambiguous.

Anyway, I was merely saying that, in general, it is ok to list a lot of categories if they are relevant. Relevant, serious, accurate. Some articles suit many categories, and that's not a problem.

Varlaam (talk) 08:01, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

False edit summary-you removed sentence claiming "A request for proper sources was basicly ignored for a whole year"-which was tagged by you on the same day.

You removed information which you tagged on 24th August under the pretext that "A request for proper sources was basicly ignored for a whole year" on the very same day. I will assume good faith, and that this was a mistake. Please restore the information.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 08:54, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Believe it or not it WAS a honest mistake. There where so many one-year-old-tags that I simply mixed them up. However I won't restore UNSOURCED information particularly because 'The next SOURCED paragraph manages to explain the issue in a proper manner'. Flamarande (talk) 12:14, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Saint_Dismas#Requested_move

Hi, relisted, and admin requests discussion of St Anselm's alternative recommendation to move:

PASTE

Relisted Mike Cline (talk) 17:43, 10 November 2011 (UTC) please continue and weigh in on this discussion relative a specific move to Good thief Thanks --Mike Cline (talk) 17:43, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

END OF PASTE In ictu oculi (talk) 04:08, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

Arbitrary ERA changes

Hi Flamarande,

Please don't get into an edit-war over your ERA changes. WP:ERA is quite clear that you shouldn't be doing this without consensus on the article Talk: page, and there's no point in trying to blame it on some other editor who made some change over 2 years ago. On a practical level, since you reverted first, you will always end up violating 3RR first. I strongly recommend you discuss this on the various article Talk: pages instead, I'm sure we can reach some reasonable accomodation that complies with policy. Jayjg 02:52, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I also agree that WP:ERA is clear in these matters. I also honestly believe that it is clearly on my side (restoration of the original dating system which have been changed without proper protocol) and I believe that if you are fair in these matters you will agree with me. To be fair I was mistaken in the article Iberia (the history of the article is a bit confusing). Flamarande (talk) 13:23, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

WP:ERA nowhere states that the earliest use is the one an article must follow forever after - and quite frankly, I have little patience for editors who use any excuse they can find to convert to a specific notation (by the way, those editors almost always insist on converting to BC/AD notation). User:CIS was notorious for this; he would use three strategies to convert articles to BC/AD:

1. If the article originally used BC/AD, then he would insist it needed to be BC/AD forever after.
2. If the article had originally used BCE/CE or mixed, but had a majority of BC/AD usage, then he would insist it needed to go by the majority usage.
3. If some other condition prevailed, or there was consensus against changing to BC/AD, he would regularly open discussions on the article Talk: page about converting to the BC/AD notation.

These tactics should be familiar, since they are the exact ones you follow, including the polls. By the way, like you he also claimed not to be Christian, but an atheist, and that use of the BCE/CE terminology was "political correctness". Are you familiar with User:CIS? Jayjg 14:02, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Is that an accusation? Yes, in fact I remember him vaguely (from the talkpages). However I'm not him/her. But if you're unwilling to take my word for it then I can only suggest that you follow the proper procedure of asking for a sockpuppet verification. I can also tell you now that I don't twist/change/convert a BCE/CE article towards BC/AD on purpose but that I simply don't like it when it's done the other way around (BC/AD towards BCE/CE) and that I tend to revert such sneaky changes towards the original dating system. I also suggest that you take a look at my edits. You will find plenty of edits by which I unmade sneaky changes towards BCE/CE but ALWAYS when the original dating system was BC/AD and the change itself was a sneaky thing (clearly against WP:ERA). I think I have done two single mistakes but that's it. Flamarande (talk) 14:08, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Have you ever "unmade sneaky changes" towards BC/AD when "the original dating system" was BCE/CE and "the change itself was a sneaky thing (clearly against WP:ERA)"? When I see "sneaky era changes", 19 times out of 20 they are done to remove BCE/CE (e.g. like this or this) - I don't even recall seeing it the other way. Jayjg 23:34, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

As a matter of fact, yes I have (once or twice), and I want to point out that I can hardly be held accountable for what other users do. Flamarande (talk) 00:01, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Of course you're not responsible for what these editors do, I was merely pointing out their prevalence. However, I haven't been able to find any making the opposite change (though I'm sure it's possible they exist). For some reason, BCE/CE notation seems to seriously offend a certain segment of readers/editors, but not the opposite, which is odd, given that those who object to BCE/CE (including you) often state that it is an example of "political correctness" (or as you put it above "simply a pitiful measure of political correctness and nothing more" - emphasis yours) - i.e. an attempt to avoid offending various groups. That's what makes your edits and rationale for them all the more surprising: it's very rare to find an editor making "sneaky" BC/AD -> BCE/CE changes, but it's almost trivially easy to find editors doing the opposite (I came across three such editors in the past two days alone). Yet even a cursory look at your edit history shows dozens of examples of you converting articles to BC/AD. If you said to me "I never revert sneaky BC/AD->BCE/CE editors because I've never seen any", that would be plausible. But to never have an occasion to revert "sneaky BCE/CE->BC/AD" editors, when Misplaced Pages is rife with them? That's hard to believe. Can you provide the diffs of the "once or twice" you actually reverted one of them? Jayjg 00:42, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I know that I did (once or twice) but I'm unable to find them (I have made a couple of thousand edits). To be honest I'm not very surprised that you're finding more BC/AD warriors than BCE/CE warriors in general numbers. It has to do with the fact that BC/AD truly is the most popular system and that BCE/CE is largely unknown outside the USA (particularly in Europe). People who are unfamiliar with BCE/CE (as I was) simply don't like it at all. They learn the English language at school and they read the books. Guess what dating system they use? BC/AD. Then they go to Misplaced Pages and they read most articles which use BC/AD. But here and there they find this strange and unfamiliar BCE/CE and what do they do? They edit it towards the form they were taught at school.

However I believe that the reason that you're finding AD preachers and I'm finding some many BCE warriors is simply this: when I read an article which uses BCE I tend to check its history. Too many times I confirm that BCE was imposed through an unrequested, undebated, and unagreed change = sneaky one. I tend to revert such sneaky changes. It is possible that you're doing the same thing (from the "other side"). But if you want me to name a couple of BCE/CE warriors... just ask. Flamarande (talk) 01:21, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I've said this elsewhere, but it bears repeating, so I'm including it here too. The reality of Misplaced Pages and era notations is not as you've described it. Rather, era notation "changers" generally fall into one of three groups:

1. People who add material to an article in the notation they usually use, and who don't pay a lot of attention to the notation that's currently being used in an article. Thus, for example, an article which originally had BC/AD notation over time gains material that also uses BCE/CE notation. This is common, is not because of subterfuge or "sneakiness", and is exactly what happened in this article (and most of the others that you describe as "sneaky", "unrequested", "undebated", "unagreed").
2. A small number of individuals (usually IPs or inexperienced editors) take offense to BCE/CE notation, and "sneakily" convert it to BC/AD notation. I've given you several examples of that, and can easily find dozens more.
3. A very small number of experienced editors take offense to BCE/CE notation, and try to use the guidelines to their advantage to, wherever possible, change it to BC/AD notation. You and (now banned) User:CIS fall into this last group.

Members of group 1 mean well, but are simply not attentive to (or not concerned about) era notation. They do not cause any significant issue: if an article becomes filled with mixed notation, then a consensual decision can be made as to which notation should be used. However, members of groups 2 and 3 are problems. They are not editing to improve Misplaced Pages, but rather to promote a personal agenda.

Your arguments here and elsewhere about why BCE/CE is not "the most popular dating system" and why arguments in its favor make you "want to puke" are not relevant here. WP:ERA is quite clear; either notation is acceptable, and it is only exactly what you are doing (arbitrarily changing one notation to the other) that is disruptive. Using Wikilawyering to try to use the WP:ERA guideline to selectively remove one notation is no less disruptive. And, quite frankly, nothing is being "censored" anywhere on Misplaced Pages (or elsewhere). People are free to use whatever era notation they prefer, and the fact that you are so invested in this issue that you consider use of BCE/CE notation to be "censorship" that should be "reverted with extreme prejudice" is troubling. I think you need to take a step back here, and re-evaluate what you are doing and why. Please focus on more productive activities. Jayjg 14:35, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Look, you have your opinion and I have mine. I'm willing to make a compromise: BCE/CE for Pythius of Priene (because two years have passed). However Antiochus III the Great (who began with BC/AD and which used it predominantly until you changed it very recently and Germanic Wars (same reasons) get their original dating system restored. I believe that this is a reasonable compromise. Flamarande (talk) 17:34, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm not here to play era games, actually, because, unlike you, I don't really care which notation is used. On the other hand, you clearly spend a significant amount of time trying to edit or otherwise wikilawyer BCE/CE notation out of Misplaced Pages, based on your very strongly held and clearly expressed animus towards the notation. Every edit you make towards that goal is a fundamental violation of WP:ERA, even if someone happened to add BCE/CE notation to an article that previously had only BC/AD notation, and you consider their generally innocent edit to be "sneaky". You have also not presented a specific rationale for changing the Germanic Wars article. I'll tell you the "compromise" I'm willing to make; you can change the Antiochus III the Great to the era notation you so strongly prefer, and leave the other two articles alone. That said, if you accept this compromise, going forward you need to step down from your self-appointed role of trying to eliminate BC/AD notation from Misplaced Pages wherever possible. If I find you again making these kinds of arbitrary era changes, even if you have wikilawyering excuses, I'll just take you to AN/I. Jayjg 20:08, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I presented my rational at the talkpage of Germanic Wars and I hope for a fair outcome. I also will restore the original dating system in Antiochus III the Great as you're willing to concede. I have nothing against a future AN/I report IF I do something wrong (if I don't please leave me in peace). Flamarande (talk) 22:15, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Let me be clear; if I see you make any arbitrary edits as part of your anti-BC/AD campaign, I'll bring it straight to AN/I. And an "arbitrary edit" includes finding an article with both notations, discovering that at some time in the past someone innocently or unthinkingly added material with BCE/CE notation, and using that as an excuse to convert it to BC/AD. WP:ERA was designed precisely to stop edits like the ones you are making. Jayjg 22:24, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Then please tell me how such an article is improved. Seriously now, I have found the article Germanic peoples which uses both systems. Now how should we proceed? Leave them both (which is simply strange for the reader and against the rules)? Put a tag? Ask for the opinion of others? Restore the original one? WP:ERA is pretty vague in this matter. It merely says "do not change" but it doesn't say what one should do if another user changed the system by accident or not. Flamarande (talk) 22:30, 29 November 2011 (UTC) PS: I'm not waging an anti-BC/AD campaign.

Not recieving any advice whatsoever I decided to follow common sense and WP:ERA. And I don't agree that "innocently or unthinkingly added material with BCE/CE notation" (or BC/AD) turns an article into an open case. The previous history of an article (and its earliest dating system) surely has to count for something. Flamarande (talk) 02:15, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

"please tell me how such an article is improved"? Articles are improved by getting out good history books, reading them, and then summarizing and citing their contents in articles that are missing them. They are not improved by going on anti BCE/CE crusades, as you have been doing, in violation of WP:ERA. It's quite cute that you have, for the very first time, converted an article to BCE/CE - amusing enough that I'll ignore it. If I see you continuing your crusade, though, you can expect administrative action. My advice is to recognize that your almost 6 year crusade against BCE/CE has come to an end, and stop making era notation changes, before you end up being blocked, restricted or banned for it. Jayjg 03:39, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

IMHO there was simply nothing to ignore and you know it. It wasn't the very first time, I'm quite certain that I have done it before (believe it or not - and if you don't believe me tough luck. I have been nothing than honest in such matters, unlike others). I ask you for a clear official policy to follow in a particular case and you offer me general rethoric about general improvement. Thank you but I already have improved several articles before.

Spare me your rethoric and indicate me a clear protocol of the English wiki to follow when someone finds an article that uses both forms or when someone finds a recent change which was done against WP:ERA. Are we somehow supposed to call an administrator? Are we somehow supposed to pretend that nothing happened at all? Are we supposed to revert such a change? Can you tell me why WP:ERA simply avoids these issues at all?

I also will keep giving my honest opinion if this question is raised in an article's talkpage. I respect the results of such debates whatever they may be (no matter if they were against my opinion/side - happened before). If someone thinks that I should be blocked because of it, then so be it. Just don't ask how consensus can be reached if someone can be banned due having an opinion. Flamarande (talk) 04:51, 30 November 2011 (UTC) PS: I'm still waiting for a fair resolution in the Germanic Wars. No one seems to have offered any reasonable reason at all for a change towards BCE/CE.

Oh the hypocrisy is killing. Jayjg, when you stop arbitarily changing articles to BCE and then defending them to the death your arguments might hold more weight. at the moment its just pot and kettle. Alexandre8 (talk) 17:25, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I told you that I had reverted an anti-BCE switch (once or twice) before, but you were cynical about it. I found it: (notice the date). No, rest assured, I don't want some stupid medal and I don't want some apology. I just like to be honest in such matters and I don't like when someone doesn't trust my word for it. Flamarande (talk) 00:57, 2 December 2011 (UTC) PS: I'm still waiting for a fair resolution in the Germanic Wars. No one seems to have offered any reasonable reason at all for a change towards BCE/CE. It seems that the changer made it to show somebody else "to point out that one could harmonize either way" and IMHO that's not a proper reason.

I see. One time you changed one instance of BC/BCE to BCE. Bravo! Regarding the Germanic Wars, the issue is resolved. Your anti BCE/CE campaign is now officially over, so you're done there. If you want to add historical material to the article, feel free, but no more era changes. Please try to recognize that your obsession with this notation and these changes, and insistence that it's not "fair" is part of the problem. If an article has mixed notation, or even has a different notation than the one it started with 7 or 8 years ago, it's not your problem any more: you've been relieved of that burden. Now you need to step away, and focus on things like actual article content instead. Jayjg 17:26, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

It wasn't merely an instance, it was an article (if there were more I would have corrected them too). In Germanic Wars I choose between two dating systems (which is unbecoming and against the rules) choosing the original system used before (I wouldn't had imposed BC/AD if the article had begun with BCE). You choose BCE/CE system without a specific rationale. You consider my changes arbitrary but is your change in this particular case truly any better?

I also must point out that in your understandable eagerness to protect the dating system of the article Antiochus III the Great you changed the quotes from the sources. You have to admit that that is somewhat embarrassing (for you).

I have found a classical example: Coele-Syria (it earliest dating system is BC/AD and used it exclusively - without any problem at all - until very recently). The change was probably an accident and no proper request to change the dating system was ever made. IMHO this case is unambiguous: two dating systems are unwished and against the official policies. However I don't wish to be brought before AN/I by an avoidable mistake and waste everybody's time. So tell me: what is to be done in this particular case? What are the parameters? Flamarande (talk) 22:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

The parameters are this: stop looking for these issues, because it's not your problem any more. Stop worrying about it, thinking about it, posting about it, obsessing over it, etc. You've been relieved of the duty of having to "fix" articles that have BCE/CE notation in them. Any changes you to this notation will simply be arbitrary, part of your obsession with removing the era notation that, in your words, makes you "want to puke", and will therefore require administrative action. Your stomach is now safe, and you are now free to focus instead on more valuable tasks, like adding missing content. Jayjg 01:30, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

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Talk:Khaua-Mbandjeru Rebellion--your opinion?

Hi Flamarande, you have recently been involved in the discussion of Khaua-Mbandjeru Rebellion. I would like to ask you to check the article's talk page and give input. Thanks, Pgallert (talk) 10:37, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I forgot to watch this page and saw your comments only now. --Pgallert (talk) 07:54, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

URGENT!

Dostoyevsky

hello,

I see you are skilled in Portugese, so I wonder if you could translate two sections here? The sections are: Estilo and Personagens. I would like to include this piece of information on Fyodor Dostoyevsky, as the current Themes and style section is unorganized. Regards.--GoP_{TN 08:35, 29 June 2012 (UTC)}

"Death daggers"

Howdy Flamarande. I'm just letting you know there is a discussion going at the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest article pertaining to the typographical dagger or "death dagger" being used for Varus. There should be a consensus reached and I was thinking your thoughts would be great. Thanks!--Tataryn77 (talk) 23:30, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

RfC on Vietnamese diacritics

RfC: Should the spelling of Vietnamese names follow the general usage of English-language reliable sources? Examples: Ngo Dinh Diem, Ho Chi Minh, and Saigon, or Ngô Đình Diệm, Hồ Chí Minh, and Sài Gòn. The RfC is here. Kauffner (talk) 14:27, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Roman Empire GA review

There is a community review of the GA status of Roman Empire at Misplaced Pages:Good article reassessment/Roman Empire/1, to which you may wish to contribute.--SabreBD (talk) 10:12, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of List of military commanders for deletion

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Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. — LlywelynII 14:44, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

RfC on title of Sarah Brown (wife of Gordon Brown)

Hi, this is to let everyone who commented in the 2010 RM know that there's another RM/RfC here, in case you'd like to comment again. Best, --Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 19:41, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

RM notification

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Women in Red World Contest

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Cleopatra FAC

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