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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ignocrates (talk | contribs) at 03:08, 2 November 2006 (→The Way Forward (from peer review)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Ebionites received a peer review by Misplaced Pages editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

Archives

Previous discussions can be found at:

• /Archive 1
• /Archive 2
• /Neo-Ebionite
• /Neo-Ebionite 2

Towards Featured Article status

Before we push the article to Peer review - a step that should always be taken before the Featured Articles Candidacy step - , we need to 1) preserve a neutral point of view ; and 2) extensively provided references for every paragraph in this article following Misplaced Pages:Citing sources guidelines. --Loremaster 14:29, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

About See also

According to a Misplaced Pages rule of thumb: 1) if something is in See also, try to incorporate it into main body 2) if something is in main body, it should not be in See also and therefore 3) good articles have no See also sections. --Loremaster 01:29, 31 August 2006 (UTC) Shalom Loremaster,

Articals explaining offical Misplaced Pages policy have "see also" sections.NazireneMystic 00:13, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I know. However, I have a spoken to Misplaced Pages administrators about this issue and I've confirmed that this rule of thumb is an unofficial policy that is highly recommended. --Loremaster 02:07, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Toward Peer Review

I am now satisfied with the 12:03, 10 September 2006 version of the article. --Loremaster 17:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I am also satisfied with the 12:03, 10 September 2006 version of the article. I will initiate the peer review process. Thanks Loremaster, for your efforts to make this article into a candidate for featured article status. Ovadyah 18:42, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. --Loremaster 19:37, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I will continue to make some minor edits to the article but nothing that will change it's structure or core content. --Loremaster 17:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Peer review/Ebionites

I have just made a series of suggestions here Slrubenstein | Talk 20:56, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. --Loremaster 21:39, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Loremaster I suggest we reserve this page for disussions relating to peer review and follow-up work resulting from the peer review. I suggest moving the last two sections discussing editorial changes made prior to the peer review to Archive 2. I would move the rant about changes to the archived pages to Archive 1, where it can be combined with all the other POV material. Ovadyah 02:05, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Done. --Loremaster 02:27, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Its interesting that actual discussion about changes to the artical you call rants. then archiving it by moving it to a different section only makes for confusion. Do smoke screens and confusion work in your favor?NazireneMystic 00:50, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Whether they are rants or not, I only archive discussions that have ended and disputes have been resolved. Anyone can easily find and read the archives so my acts cannot be interpreted as some attempt to limit your freedom of speech. --Loremaster 16:11, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

The peer review has been archived. It contains several ideas we can use to improve the Ebionites article. --Loremaster 14:26, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Please Don't Fix

Please Don't fix, since the article on both the Ebionites and the Ebionite Jewish Community represents a typical suppression of both historical facts and quotes, and the castration of reference materials because of political pressure. I have begun to use the suppression of the facts as an example of how references resoureces are castrated in order to suppress the Truth which you can review at http://TheThreeLies.com#TrueProphet . This is an important lesson for seekers of Truth to recognize, and I can therefore use this article and the main Ebionite article of a prime example of this fact and reality. -- Nazirene --Nazirene 13:49, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Naz-- I'm sorry you feel like your thoughts are being suppressed-- please understand that it's nothing personal, is in no way related to the content of your belief-- only to the lack of sources. That said-- just because the page on your movement got deleted, that's no reason the effort to improve THIS page shouldn't move forward as per the peer review. --Alecmconroy 14:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Alecmconroy. --Loremaster 21:16, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Reply From Nazirene :Greetings Alecmconry: It is not so much my thoughts -- but important spiritual concepts that must be re-established in our present time in order to move beyond man's present spiritual quagmire. In this time of world struggle, it is not enough to simply say: Give peace a chance. Or, why don't we all just get along. In order to have tolorance and peace, it is necessary to manifest higher levels of mind and being, and these higher centers of mind must be nourished with spiritual manna. In the beginning of the above article on The Three Lies http://TheThreeLies.com , I demonstrate that once you move beyond the allegory of the written word, Judaism and Christianity are one and the same. While it is proven that Jesus is the fulfillment of Spiritual Israel, it is also proven that Christianity is a paganization of that Truth. And Islam which was conceived out of the bed-rock of the Ebionites and Gnostic Nestorian Monks who were banished from the Roman Empire, holds the key to understanding the Qur'an. It is important for the people to understand that the Disciples of Jesus who were Ebionites, knew the Truth by virtue of the experiential knowledge received by passing through an inner portal to the Kingdom within which Jesus declared (see http://GateOfEden.com ). And that is why when he was asked when the Kingdom would come upon the earth as carnal Jews and Christians expect, he said that the external Armegeddon will never happen. It is important to understand that Mohammed in the portrayal of the cave in the mountain of Light, allegorically portrayed this same inner journey in TheWay. And that the Journey by night to the Distant Mosque -- in the Mecca that is not of this world -- is this same allegorical presentation that is portrayed in the parable of the prodigal son, or Plato's Cave (see http://DivineStrategery.com#Plato ). Notice also that in the account of Plato, those who escape the illuion of the Cave -- which is the illusion of this world -- are looked upon as madmen. But in our present time the Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi Library are just the beginning, and there is much more yet to come. The problem with resource writings such as Misplaced Pages and the Britannica, is seen in the fact that it is typically written by linear minded people who only perceive life in a straight line. And the fact that most intuitively polarized people who are able to sense beyond the barrier of what is portrayed as Plato's Cave are for the most part only partially developed, and have great difficulty in portraying their intuitively received impressions in a manner that others will understand, this inability to make linear sense kind of supports the linear vision of life. So it is not your fault as people who are acclamated to this type of pursuit to question the validity of the mystical. And while there are exceptions, even these few have great difficulty expressing themselves in a manner that most linear minded people will understand. I am different, because I was able to initiate mystical experiences where I succeeded in transporting my linear perception out of what is portrayed as Plato's Cave, and I have been able to fully observe this inner reality, and take the knowledge back with me into the body. It has to do with what the Church Father Origen stated that each "soul is... is weakened by the defeats, or strengthened by the victories, of it's previous lifetimes". Also, I knew the esoteric alchemical knowledge of how to condition the physical body-vessel to make it support this inner spiritual knowledge of the Kingdom. Jesus taught that there is One Teacher -- and all his followers were to learn from that One Teacher, in contradistinction to the rabbis and teachers of this world. And this One Teacher was portrayed as the True Prophet within. And this reality is not easily grasped by linear minded people -- regardless of their level of intelligence. And this is why most Mystics will tell you that you have to go beyond the limitations of mind in your pursuit of Truth. And in opposition to this traditional mysticism perspective, I disagree with that position -- stating instead that the body must be prepared in order to manifest those higher area of mind beyond the 10% that is supported by the physical -- and by doing this you will expand the consciousness, and begin to learn from the One Teacher that Jesus taught was the only True Source of Knowledge. And this is the essence of Kabbalah, the core of the teachings of Jesus and TheWay, and what Mohammed attempted to re-establish, before his own writings were corrupted in the same manner as was the Bible. And thus, the present world conflict is being fueled by what will end up as a restoral of the teachings of Jesus and TheWay, and the core of these teachings are the suppressed quotations on the Ebionites. Which means that to accomplish this spiritual end, it will have to be explained why these core teachings are suppressed by most of the reference resources. It is not personal -- and I apologize if you think it is -- just merely part of the portrayal of the facts as to why most reference resources can't be relied upon to portray the concepts of the mystical inner path. --Nazirene

As I've said in the past, I can't debate you on religion or philosophy, so I can't really closely read through all that, but I don't see anything that should preclude Loremaster and Ov from proceeding to work on improving the article in the directions suggested by the peer review. --Alecmconroy 14:31, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Bugged?

The Ebionites and Ebionite Jewish Community articles and talk pages may be bugged with some kind of Trojan Horse. My user talk page is affected as well. It looks like some kind of redirect, judging by the warning messages I am seeing. I'm having WP:AN/I look into it. I wonder who has an interest in the Ebionites and EJC articles and my talk page combined with the technical expertise to do such a thing? Ovadyah 21:52, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like your computer got some issue-- I'm very, very, very skeptical that anyone could hack Misplaced Pages. I'm able to view these pages without problems. --Alecmconroy 22:42, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I only saw it happen on one computer, so you may be right. Still, it's funny that only those pages were affected. I could view them. What was new was a warning that the page may not be safe. I'll keep monitoring and testing. Ovadyah 02:15, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

The Way Forward (from peer review)

Now that we have taken a bit of a break, I thought I would get things rolling. UberCyrix had some questions about sources as follows:

1. There are some claims in there that definitely appear sketchy to average readers....like...."Accordingly they dispossessed themselves of all their goods and lived in communistic societies"

2. "While Ebionites undoubtedly drew their doctrines from ideas circulating in the 1st century CE, Judeo-Christian origins scholar Robert Eisenman argues that they existed as a distinct group from Pauline Christians and Gnostic Christians before the destruction of Jerusalem," among many others.

Can we identify the sources of these entries and provide citations? Any others? Let's nail down our source material before we take on organization and style issues. Ovadyah 01:04, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

1. Jewish Encyclopedia: Ebionites

2. Eisenman, Robert. James the Brother of Jesus: The Key to Unlocking the Secrets of Early Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls. New York: Viking, 1996

--Loremaster 01:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. That was quick!

How do you feel about UberCyrix's other suggestion:

The section Ebionite writings should be written in summary style, not lists. Same thing with the Sources section.

There is content overlap between Sources and Writings. The summary style comment may reflect a preference for inline citations. Ovadyah 03:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

• Old requests for peer review