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A request for Arbitration is the last step of dispute resolution. Before requesting Arbitration, please review other avenues you should take. If you do not follow any of these routes, it is highly likely that your request will be rejected. If all other steps have failed, and you see no reasonable chance that the matter can be resolved in another manner, you may request that it be decided by the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom).

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The Arbitration Committee considers requests to open new cases and (exceptionally) to summarily review new evidence and update the findings and decisions of a previous case. Review is likely to be appropriate if later events indicate the original ruling on scope or enforcement was too limited and does not adequately address the situation, or if new evidence suggests the findings of fact were significantly in error.

The procedure for accepting requests is described in the Arbitration policy. If you are going to make a request here, you must be brief and cite supporting diffs. If your case is accepted for arbitration, the arbitrator or clerk will create an evidence page that you can use to provide more detail. New requests to the top, please. You are required to place a notice on the user talk page of each person against whom you lodge a complaint.

0/0/0/0 corresponds to Arbitrators' votes to accept/reject/recuse/other. Cases are usually opened at least 24 hours after four net accept votes are cast; that is, four more accept than reject votes. When a case is opened, a notice that includes a link to a newly created evidence page will be posted to each participant's talk page. See the Requests section of the arbitration policy page for details. "Recuse" means that an Arbitrator has excused themselves from a case because of a possible, or perceived, conflict of interest. Cases which have not met the acceptance criteria after 10 days will be removed from this page.

This is not a page for discussion, and Arbitrators or Clerks may summarily remove or refactor discussion without comment. Please do not open cases; only an Arbitrator or Clerk may do so.

See also


Purge the server cache


How to list cases

Under the Current requests section below:

  • Click the "" tab on the right of the screen appearing above the section break line;
  • Copy the full formatting template (text will be visible in edit mode), omitting the lines which say "BEGIN" and "END TEMPLATE";
  • Paste template text where it says "ADD CASE BELOW";
  • Follow instructions on comments (indented), and fill out the form;
  • Remove the template comments (indented).

Note: Please do not remove or alter the hidden template

Current requests

Israeli POV

Initiated by Carbonate at 03:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Carbonate 03:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

As first party, you may feel tempted to add a summary here. If you do, make it a single sentence of not more than twenty words. Please make your case in your statement.

Statement by User:Carbonate

User:Isarig has accused me of numerous things including POV, SOAPBOX and OR while engaging in those very acts or requiring them for any compromise. Requests for mediation have been refused and any reasonable dialog has come from the neutral 3rd parties. The page in dispute was finally locked by an admin that is also pro-israeli after it was again reverted to exclude the chart in question. The comment on the lock was "work it out in talk" despite a refusal for any compromise in talk and a refusal to mediate. Although Isarig has not commited 3RR violations, other pro-israeli editors conviently show up when 3RR has been exhausted.

Statement by {Isarig}

I have not refused mediation. At the time mediation was proposed, a compromise was reached by the editors who participated in the content dispute, so there was no point in mediating it. Carbonate was the only one who refused that compromise. The POV nature of the chart he insists on adding is explained in detail on the Talk page. In short, a Pie chart can inherently present only one set of numbers, while there are multiple such sets in this case, and Carbonate insists on using just one set, and has explicitly admitted that set discounts the claims of one side.

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/0/0/0)


Will Smith web site

Initiated by Mary888 at 11:49, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

HawkerTyphoon is aware of the request.

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Nature of the conflict:is it possible to mention the fansite www.jazzyjefffreshprince.com as one major fansite about Will Smith in the external links?

Statement by Mary888

HawkerTyphoon suppresses constantly the link www.jazzyjefffreshprince.com that I add as one major fansite about Will Smith in the external links qualifying me of "spammer"! However, the website I mention is one major fansite about Will Smith(it's even THE major fansite). Why?

Because:

  • it's very informative (updates every day-I would say every minute-)
  • the forum has 1550 registered members(and there are more than 150 000 posts): the forum has the more members among all the will smith fansites!
  • the first will smith podcast in the world that can give you the latest news is...: http://www.jazzyjefffreshprince.com/multimedia/will-smith-podcast.htm
  • the site exists since 10 years (a proof of seriousness)

HawkerTyphoon has, according to me, bad arguments:

  • he wants me to prove it's a major fansite USING RELIABLE SOURCES but using reliable sources makes sense for proving some facts in the content of an article BUT there are no reliable sources for proving that a fansite is one of the best because it's an opinion...
  • he says I have to prove it's the biggest but the rule says:If there are many fansites for the topic covered by the article, then providing a link to one major fansite (and marking the link as such) may be appropriate.
  • in addition, he says "Links intended to promote a site, especially if that site's primary purpose is to advertise or sell products or services, or if the site requires payment to view the relevant content. This is colloquially known as external link spamming. ". But the very very very first primary purpose of the site www.jazzyjefffreshprince.com is giving informations! And here is what you can read when you click on "store":"Order the Jazzy Jeff & Fresh Prince Forever T-Shirt Now! Only a 100 of these will be available so be quick! This is a special limited edition T-Shirt to celebrate 20 years of Jazzy Jeff & Fresh Prince."

It's not a commercial site!!!

Statement by HawkerTyphoon (talk · contribs)

I'd like first state that I think an RfA is a bit much. Myself and one or two other editors have consistently requested a reason for the site to be included, and have been consistently told that we don't need a reason, because it's a "major fansite". When we ask for proof of this, we get told that we don't need it. Mary888 is a single-purpose account so far - and has only been editing regarding the entry of the fansite into Misplaced Pages. I am happy to include the fansite - when we get proof, one way or the other that:

  1. It's a major fansite
  2. It's got a reason to be included over all of the other fansites

HawkerTyphoon 17:36, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Clerk notes

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/1/0/0)

User:Hkelkar

Initiated by BhaiSaab at 23:23, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

This is a case regarding sockpuppetry and disruption by User:Shiva's Trident and/or User:Hkelkar.

Statement by BhaiSaab

Suspected sockpuppeteer

Shiva's Trident (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) formerly known as Subhash bose block log or Netaji.

Suspected sockpuppets

Hkelkar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Evidence

Background

Shiva's Trident or Subhash bose is a confirmed sockpuppeteer who is no longer active. The confirmed sockpuppet was User:Pusyamitra_Sunga who claimed to be his brother and was indefinitely blocked after it was found that he and Shiva's Trident used the same email address. Furthermore, Shiva's Trident has used at least two IP addresses to evade his blocks. They are User:128.83.131.121 and User:128.83.131.215. Both trace to University of Texas at Austin , and a reverse dns for each renders linux1.ph.utexas.edu and statpc1.ph.utexas.edu, respectively. On the userpage of Shiva's Trident, we can see that he attends the University of Texas at Austin.

User:128.83.131.139

During a nearly week-long block of Shiva's Trident that was instated on August 21st, another IP (User:128.83.131.139) began editing on August 22nd. This IP later claimed to be a person by the name of Hrishi or Hrishikesh Kelkar. The IP traces to the University of Texas at Austin and a reverse dns of the IP renders twist.ph.utexas.edu. In addition, I found it odd that this IP was familiar with Misplaced Pages terminology from his very first edit, was comfortable enough to issue warnings after only two days on Misplaced Pages (to a user who Shiva's Trident has quarreled with many times in the past), and edited the very same articles that Shiva's Trident was editing before his block had begun. Hkelkar and Shiva's Trident maintain that they had previous conversations about Misplaced Pages before he began editing here.
I filed a sockpuppetry case for this IP and the admin recommended that I add it to an already pending request for checkuser involving user Shiva's Trident. During this time, Hkelkar and Shiva's Trident also had a conversation on IRC with some Misplaced Pages admins to demonstrate that they were two different users. The log of the conversation shows that Shiva's Trident was typing from 66.68.106.162 (tracing to a Road Runner IP in Austin) and Hkelkar, or hrishi, was typing from twist.ph.utexas.edu. The result of the checkuser was inconclusive.

User:Hkelkar

Hkelkar was later involved in another sockpuppetry case filed by User:TerryJ-Ho, who also suspected him of being a sockpuppet for several reasons. I presented much of the evidence I discussed under User:128.83.131.139 at that case as well. During this sockpuppetry case, Hkelkar maintained that although Shiva's Trident had edited from 128.83.131.215 and 128.83.131.121, he would not edit from 128.83.131.139 because "would never come below the 8th floor of the RLM building at UT so he wouldn't access twist." Twist, as I've found out is a remote computational Linux machine, and like many of the other computers in the Physics department of the University of Texas, the students "can connect to any of the general-purpose Physics machines remotely via SSH." I maintain that this is how Shiva's Trident and Hkelkar used two different IP's concurrently both on Misplaced Pages and the IRC discussion. Shiva's Trident would access twist remotely from another computer on campus or the Road Runner IP. Hkelkar has been the subject of his own request for checkuser, the outcome of which was that it was likely that Shiva's Trident and Hkelkar are the same user.

I have quite a lot more evidence to add that shows that they are indeed the same person, but my statement is somewhat long already.

What I'm requesting here is that the Arbitration Committee look into this case of sockpuppetry and disruption by Hkelkar/Shiva's Trident/Subhash bose and make a conclusive decision on whether or not they are indeed the same person. There are some admins who believe they are, while others do not. User:Dmcdevit has recently blocked Shiva's Trident because he has found further evidence that there is sockpuppetry involved here, and he has advised me to take this case to the arbitration committee because it has already been the subject of mediations, several sockpuppetry cases, and two requests for checkuser. BhaiSaab 23:23, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Note: Some of the parties above were not added by me. BhaiSaab 02:47, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Hkelkar

  • Please also look at the following discussions where I have posted the things that I have to say regarding this absurd matter:
  1. Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Hkelkar
  2. Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Hkelkar

In particular, the posts by two admins addressed to me expressing their conclusion that I am not socking Hkelkar 23:39, 29 October 2006 (UTC) Also, see this where we were involved prior to his filing this request.Hkelkar 23:45, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Regarding this ridiculous claim of me "SSH'ing" to a UT computer from home, I'm sure that anyone who is familiar with co-axial broadband technology knows that uptime bandwidths are significantly lower than downtime bandwidths. Thus, if I am to SSH to a remote machine from a roadrunner connection (which used coaxial broadband) and run graphics applications, the lag time will be so significant that any practical use is virtually impossible. The only way to do it is to use a dedicated client/server system where a direct remote connection to the machine's slave server software (such as direct X access over ethernet) etc can be done. If you will run a port scan on the machine, you will see that no such service is listening in on eth0 or any external network interface. plus, it is only a sensible admin policy to not allow such dangerous services to out-of-lan users.Hkelkar 23:50, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
  • In addition, there is no such thing as a "remote only" machine.Any networked machine can be accessed both locally and remotely.I have no need to do the latter as my home PC is powerful enough for my purposes and to suggest that I would use such elaborate and convoluted methods of subterfuge is, quite frankly, paranoid.Hkelkar 00:00, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Let me also add that BhaiSaab has had a long history of stalking my edits, baiting me with politicized and anti-semitic statements and constantly edit-warring on several articles which I have been editing. He was blocked for making antisemitic comments , plus he has been warned several times by admins to cease and desist harassing me like in this case Hkelkar 00:46, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
  • In addition, if you peruse the history page of the following articles:
  1. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Indian_caste_system&action=history specifically these:,,

  1. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Bajrang_Dal&limit=500&action=history specifically these:,

you will notice a propensity for BhaiSaab to violate WP:STALK and engage in disruptive edit-warring.

  • Concerning TerryJ-Ho below, he has routinely attacked my Jewishness and has constantly harassed me about it . He has been repeatedly incivil to me and been warned by an admin to desist this line of harassment .If more information is desired, I will assemble a case during the RfA process.Hkelkar 02:37, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Plus, I have not even heard of some of these "involved users" above.Hkelkar 02:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Regarding Dmcdevits claim of a "long block log" below, the claim is highly misleading as several of the blocks were quickly reversed as they were given erroneously (see the log yourselves). Plus, Bhaisaab has a far longer block log that has been filling up well before I got here .
  • Regarding DBachmann below,I thank him for his dispassionate analysis. I have freely admitted (per BhaiSaab's link to the irc session above) that I am personally acquainted with user Shiva's Trident. However, I feel that I have done a better job of being dispassionate in my edits than he has been so I believe I have met DBachmann's criteria for scholastic objectivity.Please see this for a summary of my views and Dbachmann's most recent post in this matter attesting to his original conclusion tht I am not a sockpuppet despite the off-wiki attempts of User:aksi great to skew his views against me .Hkelkar 09:37, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Regarding User:TwoHorned and his accusations below, I invite you to this page, where I have detailed my reasons to suspect him.Hkelkar 19:42, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Regarding User:aksi_great's most recent post claiming "conclusive evidence" of my alleged sockpuppetry,I would like for him to send me this "evidence" that he has been circulating around so that I may be able to compose a case concerning ti. Obviously, it cannot be as solid as he portrays it below as DBachmann still agrees that I am not a sock. Since I am not one, it follows that there clearly is a reasonable explanation for all of aksi great's data. If he is so confident that the information is damning then why does he not send it to me to my email address as listed in the wikipedia interface?I posit that he has not done so because he may be aware that his case is weaker than he lets on.In fact, he communicated to me that his conclusion is based on one page on yahoo which had Triden't email and my present USERID (not email as aksi great misleadingly posts below), which is hardly surprising considering I was running out of userids to choose from and simply copied Trident's, since I have known him for some time and he won't mind.Hkelkar 09:35, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Statement by TerryJ-Ho

While this editor may well hide behind technology,I would rather take into consideration - a pattern on working with similar articles with same tone and same language.The very first misuse of the WP when Subhash posed as Pussyamitra Sunga was identified by me on the basis of his language initially and am not wrong on this account here again.
I have noted a certain continuity of for example use of phrase "bear in mind" - Subhash Bose against "bear in mind" - Hkelkar- while I have given several examples before in the RFCU's.Working with people I know that everyone's language is different and people are prone to use similar words inadverdently.
As Subhash Bose he denied the suspected sock Pussyamitra Sunga was a sock - saying that both were brothers.That case was nailed on account of an email sent through the same account rather than a simple Check User or admission from him.
IMHO this person's edits so far satisfy completely as can be seen in the edit history.all the characterstics of SockpupetsTerryJ-Ho 01:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Note: As in the case of Netaji - User: Bakaman is always seen in to support User:Kelkar.Secondly, they both are prone to raking up past histories rather than remaining on the plane of discussion, for which I have repeatedly warned.
It is an established practice on the part of Shiva's trident,HKelkar and Bakasuprman to call other users "Anti-Hindu" - this being also used against the independent sources whose writings they do not agree.On the other hand they try to present writers with Hindutva leanings as neutral.After a recent block on Hkelkar - Bakaman reacted thus
The HKelkar avatar has been trying to present himself as Jewish or Jew.A different version of the sequence of talks is available on my talk page.He has actively participated in the discussion on his own free will, even though some of his claims are difficult to absorb...say for example asking me not to call him Jew but Jewish at the same time using the same term himself.
Given their propensity to mix up serious issues of gaming the system with historical acounts of interactions with other users that they see in the context of Anti-X,Y,Z.These issues should not be mixed here but handled separately TerryJ-Ho 07:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I have added a few users above as they had extensive experience on working with eithr HKelkar or his suspected socks.TerryJ-Ho 08:00, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

  • I have a question - Is a machine IP the only way to prove one to be sockpuppet?Dbachmann's views rather put in question the informed decision taken by Dmcevit to block Shiva's Trident's account.At this point the question should not be whether Shiva's trident is a sockpuppet but to find if that is a disruptive sockpuppetTerryJ-Ho
  • HKelkar resorts to flagrant lying to discredit the other users and this is serious in itself.
  • He - like Subhash Bose uses the same craft of communication with other users.If he is facing a prospect of ban will write messages on other user's talk pages discrediting the other party and gain their comments like "bad faith comment" from the usual symapthetic users.Bakaman fully supports him almost always like he used to do for Kelkar's - Shiva's Trident account.This is in part to influence admins and other unsuspecting editors TerryJ-Ho 18:08, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
  • This does not concern this case though,I take objection to their usual reference to Anti-Hindu - I have not found this attitude in other users of respectful stature who are also of Hindu religion and who do at one time or other edit Hinduism or India related articles.TerryJ-Ho 18:08, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Bakasuprman

Note - Statement totally reworded from previous ones.Bakaman Bakatalk 02:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

This is merely one in a series of attacks initiated by users with little to contribute to Misplaced Pages. Please also look at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Subhash_bose for other evidence. In fact go look at Misplaced Pages:Suspected_sock_puppets/Bakasuprman initiated by TerryJ-Ho's fellow user User:Geek1975. BhaiSaab is up with User:Subhash_bose (the old name of User:Shiva's Trident) in the number of blocks garnered. He has 9 blocks himself and a very diverse block log.

A user below has talked of a "beehive" of editors. If that was true, Misplaced Pages would be full of beehives and certain users themselves would be part of some nest. My use of "Reincarnation" was for a checkuser that some user harrassed me over where my suspicions were proven of 3RR gaming by a user. Dbachmann (talk · contribs) has got into hot water for racism and has been apt to call names and make personal attacks . In response to "helping the encyclopedia" - I created over 60+ articles, 20+ cats and have 5 DYK's.Bakaman Bakatalk 02:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Dmcdevit

I'll have to recuse for being the blocking party, so here's my rationale. I'm not anti-Hindu and, despite the conspiracies by Bakasuprman above, this block was based solely upon technical evidence. I performed the checkuser at Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Hkelkar, and determined that since Hkelkar and Subhash bose were both editing from the University of Texas, and the same articles with similar behavior, it was a likely case of sockpuppetry. He, of course, claimed they were two different people at UT that know each other well. Subhash bose (now named Shiva's Trident) stopeed editing soon after and no one blocked. However, after being given further evidence by email by another administrator, which, based on a google search of their two email IDs, which both connected to one real University of Texas person, connected the two, I decided to just block. I told BhaiSaab to take the case against Hkelkar (main acount) here. He has a long block log for edit warring and other disruption, and was unresponsive to my own warning not very long ago. ArbCom should accept the case. Dmcdevit·t 02:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Dbachmann

It is not my impression that Hkelkar is a sockpuppet of anyone. In general, it is difficult to distinguish sock from meatpuppets in this area, since we are looking at a group of editors with similar backgrounds and aims who communicate off-wiki. I referred to this as the "Bose-Singh continuum" after two of the most notorious trolls / sock artists, and, again, it is not my impression that Hkelkar is part of it. At some point, Misplaced Pages should simply not care to establish if one particular account is a sock of another, but treat accounts which show "hivemind" characteristics as 'effective' socks. If the arbcom is going to look into this, they should take the opportunity to review Bakasuprman (talk · contribs) who may not be an actual sock (although this edit suggests otherwise), but who is certainly part of the 'continuum' and who with his raving paranoia of "anti-Hindu cabals" certainly isn't helping the project dab (ᛏ) 08:14, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Aksi great (talk · contribs) has emailed me some intriguing factoids, suggesting that Hkelkar may be personally acquainted with the sock artists of the 'continuum' at least. What saddens me in particular is that they seem to be based at the physics department of an American university. Being from a physics background myself, I tend to hope that physicists are detached, rational intellects, not immature zealots wallowing in puerile deception, but I know of course that this is a naive generalisation :\ I would recommend to these editors that they just once and for all state their real life identity, as I do myself, and edit honestly and honourably. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not a community game. dab (ᛏ) 08:45, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Statement by uninvolved Shell Kinney

The list of involved parties frequently shows up on WP:PAIN and other admin noticeboards to report each other for various violations. I urge the ArbCom to accept this case, not as sockpuppet confirmation, but to take a look at the conduct of these disputants. Shell 09:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Statement by TwoHorned

My conclusion to recent events involving Hkelkar is that the degree of confidence that Hkelkar and Shiva'sTrident (alias Netaji) being sockpuppets is high.

  • There is effectively a PhD student, whose name is H. Kelkar, at the University of Texas, working in the same specialized domain of Statistical Physics as the previous one. I'll provide the link on admin's request.
  • In connection to the previous point, user Hkelkar says himself that Kelkar is his real name: , and, during a conversation with me on a talk page, he admitted to be a physicist: .
  • Hkelkar develops a curious pattern of accusing people he disagrees with of antisemitism, without ever giving any substantiation. In the following evidence, he levelled that accusation against me: . Note that the accusation was levelled just because I used the term "neocon" in a discussion page. I mentionned sometimes the word "neocon" in some wikipedia articles I edited (for instance , , , three of them are in french) but they never contain any antisemitic allegation, and I explained that to Hkelkar in my talk page . I also took the time to make Hkelkar see that this word "neocon" was used in the Misplaced Pages article on Neoconservatism many times without triggering any accusation of antisemitism. I repeatedly asked him to substantiate his point (for instance ). He never did, and never provided any quotation, for obvious reasons. In his user page , Shiva'sTrident introduces himself as a neocon, and the self-proclamed political affiliations of that user in the same page make the connection with the sockpuppetry case clear.
  • Above in this request for arbitration Hkelkar is repeating once again the same accusation; you can see how it backs my point: if you read the translations, you'll notice that I never use terms like "Jewish conspiracy" which are put forward by Hkelkar to depict these edits, instead I describe some right-wing parties or organizations, some of them being Israeli or from other countries, without suggesting any antisemitic connotation: there are extremist right-wingers everywhere, in France, Israel, North or South America, India etc. Incidentally, Hkelkar never got me blocked on that ground. Regarding my quotation on Michelle Malkin provided by Hkelkar above, I was writing that Michelle Malkin is a right-wing journalist, and I guess I'm not the only one saying that, and this is not antisemitism anyway; that quotation occurred in an edit (see where you can see the link) in which I was just pointing a particular humoristic website not suspect of antisemitism in any form. And regarding the link provided about my edit in the Ibn Warraq article , I was just providing evidence, using the Internet Archive Engine, that the ISIS web site once featured a link to a right-wing political party that has been banned in Israel since. As you can read by yourself here there is nowhere any mention of a so-called "Jewish conspiracy", neither there nor in any edit I've ever done. In his user page, user Hkelkar presents a future on-going project of his own called User TwoHorned and Anti-Semitism that links currently to the previous page mentionned above.
  • Also please take note of the gracious parlance used by Hkelkar in some of his edit summaries (an example: ) or to describe some parties involved in this case , and the help he asks in that latter link from another user to back these accusations of antisemitism suddenly lost by him.

TwoHorned 21:37, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Aksi_great

I have been involved in this case since October 25, the day on which I blocked Hkelkar for personal attacks on TerryJ-Ho. Following the incident, Hkelkar sent me a mail from an email address which is also used by User:Shiva's Trident. I beleive that the evidence which I have linking the two mail ids, along with the checkuser, proves beyond doubt that User:Hkelkar and User:Shiva's Trident are the same users. On getting the evidence, I shared it with a few other admins (Dmcdevit, Blnguyen and Srikeit) - all of whom supported my conclusion that it was a case of sockpuppetry. This was followed by a block by Dmcdevit on Shiva's Trident as a sock of Hkelkar. The evidence which I have contains a lot of personal information about Hkelkar/Shiva's Trident and that is the only reason I have been sending it to involved admins off-wiki. Hkelkar then asked me to share the information with admins Dbachmann and Ben W Bell, which I immediately did. Hence I find allegations by hkelkar - "off-wiki attempts of User:aksi great to skew his views against me" - to be unjustified. I have not attempted to "skew" anyone's mind. I will mail the evidence to the ArbCom if and when they take up this case (or even before that if they want to see it). I urge ArbCom to take up this case not only to come to a decision about this sockpuppetry, but also to bring an end to the disruption caused by many users on both sides. The number of articles and users being affected by this issue is increasing daily. Also please note that I have exams coming from 1 November and will be unavailable till 15 November. If anyone wants to contact me regarding this case, then please leave a message with User:Srikeit. - Aksi_great (talk) 08:00, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Sir Nicholas

I have been partially involved in this fiasco since sometime, and after some abuses, full-protections and some harried admin – here we are now. Here's what I think of the matter (and I would only be commenting on those whom I have had interactions with) —

  • Hkelkar and BhaiSaab — I have seen these users' contribs and what I derieve out of it is that both of them harbour horrible POV-biases and would revert-war endlessly with each other without providing reliable sources and without any discussions on the talk page. And in case, someone tries to initiate discussions, they end up getting blocked for personal attacks and 3RR breaches.
  • Many articles ended up being fully protected (incl. Indian caste system, 2002 Gujarat violence). Other editors were deterred from editing the articles because of these wars.
  • Both Hkelkar and BhaiSaab have been "fighting" in the name of "religion" and have been overly-provocative.
  • It is quite evident from their editing that they are not interested in discussions, but only in disruption, revert-warring and name-calling. I propose that they be put on civility and revert-parole for a long duration; because their mutual-aggression is in no way going to be productive for Misplaced Pages.
  • Hkelkar and Shiva's Trident — I have kept a watch over both the accounts and I feel that they are the same person, however most of the evidence presented here is not convincing enough. However, Hkelkar's defence here is not potent either, there are many ways to use sockpuppets, where evidence cannot be conclusively derived from checkuser but by the means of similarities in contributions.
  • TerryJ-Ho and BhaiSaab have engaged into discussions regarding the religion of Hkelkar, which I frankly believe is disruptive (and harassment to Hkelkar). Misplaced Pages has got nothing to do with religion and beliefs, but everything with reliable sources and verifiability.

Statement by Syiem

On Hkelkar I do not believe he is a sock puppet or a puppet master of anyone. Hkelkar is a very learned user and an accomplished editor. Misplaced Pages is a powerful medium and many people want to abuse it to propogate hate speach. Users like Hkelkar are an important balancing force. I admire his (Hkelkar's) courage to confront such arrogant POV pushers. I think he deserves to be honoured for the amazing work he has been doing on Misplaced Pages.

On Misplaced Pages:Sock_puppetry in general, I think it is by far the most widely abused policy on wikipedia. I have myself been accused] of being a sock puppet of Subash Bose on very similar grounds. And, there is no dearth of trigger happy admins on wikipedia just raring to press the block button. I was instantly blocked. The RFCU later proved the accusation to be bogus. Just because two people share the same views on a subject and and willing to support each other does not mean that they are sock puppets.

Statement by CltFn

I have been requested to provide a statement regarding this case , particularly as regards my knowledge of user:BhaiSaab conduct as an editor in Misplaced Pages. I have no experience with user:Hkelkar. I have found user:BhaiSaab to be an extremely vindictive and disruptive editor who spends a great deal of his time wikistalking other users that he disagrees with, edit warring and outright harrassing them to no end , likely in effort to drive them off Misplaced Pages. It does not surprise me that user:BhaiSaab is continuously involved in conflicts with other editors. It is my experience with user:BhaiSaab that he will resort to every possible stratagem in an effort to bring down other editors that he disagrees with , and he has done so successfully with a number of editors. user:BhaiSaab has been trying to bring down User:Hkelkar for quite some time now, albeit unsuccessfully. --CltFn 06:11, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Ben W Bell

I have been asked to provide a statement and input into this case. I have had dealings with the user in question several times over the last couple of months, mainly intervening in disruptions caused on articles he was working on (not necessarily due to Hleklar's influence) that have gotten messy and I put myself in as an independant arbitrator to try and sort the issues out as they were getting very nasty involving some other users. In that time I have looked at his edits and saw no reason to suspect him of sockpuppetry. Now I have been sent other evidence since that puts things in a more damning light, but as has been mentioned before there has never been a secret of the fact that he attends university with some of the other users mentioned above, and I'd found sufficient differences in his edits and speak patterns to make me believe he wasn't a sock puppet. The new evidence does muddy the waters a little I agree but I haven't been able to come to a firm judgement to believe he is definitely a sockpuppet, I am a firm believer in innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. I put forward an undecided opinion, but am open minded enough to see any evidence on both sides, as long as I don't get drawn back into old schoolyard antics and screaming to mother as has happened on my talk page before. One thing that makes me sway towards innocence is his edits counts, though over a very short period. Ben W Bell talk 08:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Hornplease

I have been asked for my comments on this user. The accusations above are twofold: (a) sockpuppetry and (b) disruption. About the sockpuppetry, I interacted often with Netaji, who now calls himself Siva's Trident, and after his disappearance with HKelkar. I have stated earlier that Netaji's patterns of speech and editing were not obvious in HKelkar's editing. The latter's edit summaries, while as incivil and insulting as the former's, tended to avoid the comic-book German that Netaji employed; Nazi references, were, however, thrown around with equal gay abandon, though that is of course inconclusive. Not detecting as many "mein freund"s, I had thus assumed they were two different people. The fact that there are two Indians at the same physics department in Austin with identical fringe political beliefs and a degree of sympathy and (popular-press) information about what are, in India, relatively unknown currents of thought - such as Zionism - I put down to a very strange coincidence. If they are in fact sharing the same email address, that may be pushing coincidence too far.

I do continue to wonder why, though. Netaji was blocked, sure, but it wasnt an indefblock. To completely shift accounts seems strange. Why wouldnt a sockmaster just return to his primary account once the block on it was lifted? Needs explanation.

About (b) disruption, what I could say and will say diverge. I support DBachmann above in noting that these two (?) users, along with two or three others, have, with fantastic energy, succeeded in reducing a large number of articles to sprawling POV-wars, have introduced biases and distortions to WP templates, have knowingly, repeatedly, violated the spirit and frequently the letter of WP policy. They quote selectively, they mis-cite. On one 'side' are HKelkar, Netaji, and Bakasuprman; on the other are Holywarrior and one or two others. I have focussed more on the former than the latter because of their greater energy and their willingness to tag-team other editors with mis-citations. The frequent use of the utter neologism 'anti-Hindu' as an adjective, and the complex of articles with marginal, POV-y references that have been built up around that are but a single example. I realised that too much of my time was going in keeping these editors from spreading vitriol over article pages; every comment in my direction was dismissive and incivil; my position of attempted neutrality was repeatedly stated to be biased, as was any editor who attempted to mediate.

When (1) I realised that too much of my time on WP was wasted on such unproductive POV-warriors (2) I tired of continual incivility and reversion-on-sight of any of my careful mediatory suggestions and (3) I came to the conclusion that WP was incapable of standing up for itself and telling these people where they get off, I lost faith in the project altogether. I have a thousand or so edits in the couple of weeks leading up to the 14th of October, and none thereafter. That is entirely thanks to these editors. I dont know who else they've done this to. If that's disruption, then they, starting with HKelkar, are disruptive. Hornplease 10:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Nobleeagle

This is no case of sockpuppetry and that is what disturbs me most about this debate. If Hkelkar is indeed the same as Shiva's Trident, what does it have to do with the way Misplaced Pages is working? Shiva's Trident left long ago, with a bad impression amongst some users who did not share his political views. Shiva's Trident and Hkelkar aren't stacking votes, aren't evading 3RR, aren't doing anything that makes sockpuppetry bad. They don't even appear on the same pages and POV-Push. I believe Hkelkar and Shiva's Trident aren't the same people and I believe regardless of whether they are or are not the same people, Hkelkar can do more work in a week than what I can do in a month, and he is thus an asset to Misplaced Pages. Even if they were the same people, with such a troublesome first impression, even I would've started anew, again, they have not ganged up in POV-disputes, Shiva's Trident and Hkelkar have done nothing wrong.

Ever since Hkelkar entered Misplaced Pages, he pitched himself into disputes with a number of different editors. These include Bhaisaab, Ikonoblast, Hornplease, Terry-J-Ho, Basawala and a number of others. These users have attempted to get him blocked numerous times, as with his blocking there would be less conflict and more POV-pushing. Some of the users above do not care about exposing sockpuppeteers, they care about their POV interests and want Hkelkar out of the picture for these reasons. I suggest the commitee take a look into all these issues between these groups of users. There are several subtle undertones in this case and they are related to his POV. Why are so many people going on about (in talk pages) whether Hkelkar is Jewish or Hindu? What does it matter to this case? This is just an example of the true disputes these users have and they have nothing to do with sockpuppetry.

I may cop a bit of flak for this and a large portion of my above comments have nothing to do with sockpuppetry, which is (meant to be) the topic of this case. But taking any action on Hkelkar will disturb the balance of NPOV on Misplaced Pages. What Hornplease says is a fringe political view (this view would have to be Hindutva as that is what Bakasuprman and Hkelkar have aligned themselves with) is not fringe (with possibly over 300 million like-minded people) and is treated with immense bias on Misplaced Pages by those who are against the view. This case has been created by those who wish to continue this bias. Nobleeagle 05:44, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by non-editing administrator Blnguyen

I think that this case extends beyond simple sockpuppetry, because the heart of the matter is general foul play and suspected POV-pushing that appears to prevalent in the area of Indian religious politics. Although I have no personal connection nor understanding of this conflict, content problems can be at times the furthest thing from one's mind when and outsider is looking in, because, as can be seen, I have four personal archives dedicated to the matter (User_talk:Blnguyen/Archive13, User_talk:Blnguyen/Archive16, User_talk:Blnguyen/Archive17, User_talk:Blnguyen/Archive19), primarily littered with accusations and counter-accusations by the parties. Many hundreds of templated warnings have been exchanged, often with dubious claims of "vandalism", "defamation", casual allegations of sockpuppetry, claims of religiously motivated hatchet jobs and bigotry and a few parties have been blocked for engaging in warning-warring. Aside from that many of the parties have been blocked multiple times for personal attacks, incivility, 3RR, and have been frequently present at WP:PAIN - a few WP:MEDCAB complaints have been lodged - if it were not for the general aggressive conduct in this realm of editing, then many of the parties may have served penalties 3-4 times longer. Aside from that there have been many page protections arising from edit wars such as

  1. 17:12, 18 October 2006 Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington (Talk | contribs | block) protected Indian caste system (edit war )
  2. 13:42, 17 October 2006 Steel359 (Talk | contribs | block) protected Indian caste system (Edit warring )
  3. 03:01, 9 October 2006 Blnguyen (Talk | contribs | block) protected Bajrang Dal (edit warring again )
  4. 05:24, 4 October 2006 Blnguyen (Talk | contribs | block) protected Pakistani nationalism (edit-warring - I don't see any vandalism.. )
  5. 10:02, 11 October 2006 Konstable (Talk | contribs | block) protected Udit Raj (enough edit warring )
  6. 02:12, 11 September 2006 Blnguyen (Talk | contribs | block) protected Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (edit-waring.......again )
  7. 01:23, 11 September 2006 Blnguyen (Talk | contribs | block) protected Bajrang Dal (revert warring )
  8. 18:53, 3 September 2006 Srikeit (Talk | contribs | block) protected Atal Bihari Vajpayee (Revert-warring )
  9. 01:13, 31 August 2006 Blnguyen (Talk | contribs | block) protected Kancha Ilaiah (edit-warring )
  10. 22:59, 28 August 2006 Woohookitty (Talk | contribs | block) protected User talk:Subhash bose (protecting for a third time. they just keep sniping and sniping )
  11. 08:26, 26 August 2006 Woohookitty (Talk | contribs | block) protected User talk:Subhash bose (more arguments. let's keep this protected for 2-3 days )
  12. 09:01, 22 August 2006 Blnguyen (Talk | contribs | block) protected User talk:Subhash bose (stopping unnecessary arguments between blocked user and foes )
  13. 09:01, 22 August 2006 Blnguyen (Talk | contribs | block) protected User talk:Subhash bose (stopping unnecessary arguments between blocked user and foes )
  14. 04:46, 21 August 2006 Blnguyen (Talk | contribs | block) protected Khalistan (revert warring )
  15. 02:26, 21 August 2006 Blnguyen (Talk | contribs | block) protected Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (edit-warring )
  16. 08:53, 15 August 2006 Blnguyen (Talk | contribs | block) protected Upanishad (edit warring )
  17. 02:45, 19 July 2006 Blnguyen (Talk | contribs | block) protected Bal Thackeray (ip socks causing a mess ) - see Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Anwar saadat
  18. 02:44, 19 July 2006 Blnguyen (Talk | contribs | block) protected Ram Janmabhoomi (likley IP socks of blocked editor making a mess ) - see Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Anwar saadat
  19. 02:43, 19 July 2006 Blnguyen (Talk | contribs | block) protected Manu Smriti (likely sock IPs making a mess ) - see Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Anwar saadat
  20. 08:52, 9 July 2006 Voice of All (Talk | contribs | block) protected Babri Mosque (Users engaging in edit warring. )

In particular note that a talk page had to be locked three times to stop trash talk from a blocked user and his sparring partners. There are probably more page protects that some other guys did, which I don't recall or know of. Aside from that, there were a few religious slurs thrown about. I feel that a thorough examination of the ARTICLE CONTENT submitted by the parties is also in order while we are at it, because we have not yet even got past the principles of harmonious editing yet. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:51, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Commment by Ideogram

A MedCabal request was filed here. It may provide some useful background information. --Ideogram 15:06, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Srikeit

Most of what I could say has been already mentioned in Aksi_great, Blnguyen, Dmcdevit and Sir Nick in their statements. I would just like to add that apart from the disruptive editing habits of Hkelkar, BhaiSaab and co, their constant verbal battles, insults and heated exchanges , . have created an atmosphere of hostility and unnecessary tension among several editors. I urge the Arbitration committee to accept this case to deliver a binding decision to this fiasco. --Srikeit 20:56, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Basawala

I have been involved with Hkelkar almost right after his account was created. He seemed to be a profuse editor, but he seemed to be rather hostile to a number of different editors, including me. I acted very civil to him, but he made rather extreme accusations against me. I have expressively stated many times that I have no intention of getting him blocked, only of reporting instances of personal attacks that disrupt the atmosphere of Misplaced Pages that is intended to be friendly. As for whether he is or is not a sockpuppet of Netaji, I think he could be a sockpuppet. Technological evidence seems to support that as Dmcdevit has provided. I think the similarities between behavior are quite strong but not enough proof at least alone. It does seem strange that both users claim to know each other, just with the other proven case of Netaji's sockpuppetry. And as for the Indian political-religious conflict, I do think both sides should act more civil as this helps Misplaced Pages's atmosphere greatly. Mar de Sin 22:47, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by uninvolved User:Freedom skies

I have worked with User:Hkelkar in the past and I do not believe that he is a sockpuppet of anyone. In my opinion, HKelkar has contributed immensely to wikipedia and has effectively restored NPOV in many articles where if not for his involvement, it would have resulted otherwise. In addition, he has been involved with improving the quality of many articles relating to the Indian subcontinent.

As for working on the same article, myself and User:JFD have worked extensively on the same articles. Since the both of us have a pattern of working on martial arts related articles.

HKelkar too has a pattern, that of working on articles relating to the Indian subcontinent. He may find many users supporting his POV and consequently get accused of being a sockpuppet or a puppetmaster due to two (or more) users having the same ideology. It has happened to me in much the same way (see here) and turned out to be a false alarm.

Concluding remarks: I've worked with both editors and just becase they have converging interests does not mean that they are actually the same person. I would second User:Syiem and say that Misplaced Pages:Sock_puppetry in general, is greatly abused. Thank you.

Freedom skies 02:00, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (2/0/1/0)

H. Elwood Gilliland

Initiated by Nandesuka at 13:59, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Involved parties

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by User:Nandesuka

Someone assuming the name of H. Elwood Gilliland has used over 20 named sockpuppets and innumerable anonymous accounts to insert vanity references to "himself" and his projects in many articles. He has been most active in the Online creation and now-deleted NiMUD article, but was active elsewhere as well. In the course of doing this, he has used multiple (proven by checkuser) sockpuppets to cast multiple votes on AfD comments, some of which influenced the outcome of the discussion. When his articles of choice are un-semiprotected, he edits them from anonymous IP addresses, some of which edits have left dispositive evidence as to the identity of the editor. When the articles are semi-protected, he uses registered accounts and avails himself of resources such as WP:RFPP and WP:PAIN to make the case that I am oppressing him. Applying my discretion, I had indicated to this user that while he is free to edit, he is not free to act disruptively and insert improperly sourced vanity references to himself, and have applied blocks until he indicates that he will stop. Since I have now substantively edited the Online creation article, where previously I was only acting in an administrative capacity, I'm no longer comfortable continuing in that manner, and feel that this should go before the Arbcom or the community. Nandesuka 13:59, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Request to suspend

Given the arbitrator's suggestions, and that a community ban seems acceptable to the admin community (based on the WP:AN thread), I'd like to suspend this request and spare the arbcom having to deal with this. Nandesuka 12:08, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by FloNight

See thread about community ban. Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard#Proposed: Community ban for H. Ellwood Gilliland and his sockpuppets FloNight 00:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Statement by {write party's name here}

(Please limit your statement to 500 words. Overlong statements may be removed without warning by clerks or arbitrators and replaced by much shorter summaries. Remember to sign and date your statement.)

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (4/1/0/0)

USER:Cbuhl79

Initiated by Blaxthos at 18:45, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Involved parties

Primary Parties

Witnesses

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried
Summary

USER:Cbuhl79 has continually abused Misplaced Pages policies and misapplied templates, admittedly out of spite. In-progress detailed info may be found at USER:blaxthos/RfARB_Cbuhl79.

Statement by complaintant Blaxthos

After one successful RfC user cbuhl79 immediately called for a second RfC on the same content, attempting to find other policies (WP:WEASEL, WP:NPOV, WP:CONSENSUS) to use to effect changes he deemed necessary (wikilawyering). Cbuhl79 then made several unilateral changes (defying complete consensus) and possibly violated WP:3RR in the process. Cbuhl79 went to several places to try and solicit support (policy talk pages, uninvolved user pages, etc.), but was unable to find any editors who agreed with him. After the second RfC failed, user initiated a malformed RfARB, and on talk pages he admitted to continuing the conflict because he didn't like another user's conduct (me). The ArbCom summarily rejected his request, and Cbuhl79 was asked to let the issue die. User Cbuhl79 then went to my userspace and my talkspace and applied WP:NPA templates, without giving any examples of such (because they do not exist). This seems a very blatant abuse of wikipedia policies. I request the ArbCom to review this case -- if accepted I will provide a detailed timeline (with examples) of countless violations by Cbuhl79. /Blaxthos 18:45, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Addendum - I just discovered that cbuhl79 also misreported me to the WP:NPA noticeboard, further abusing WP:AGF as well as violating the proper protocol (just as he did with his RfARB). This only makes the case seem that much more serious. /Blaxthos 19:52, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Cbuhl79

I am not opposed to arbitration in this case to examine my own behavior and that of Blaxthos. This user has repeatedly and in bad faith accused me of vague policy violations instead of discussing content.

During a content discussion, Blaxthos explicitly stated that he did not believe I was acting in good faith based on the totally unfounded assertion that I was trying keep a statement out of an introduction. From this point on, the user has continually attempted to squelch any further attempts I have made to discuss the issue by repeatedly accusing me of violating Misplaced Pages policies . He has also made rude remarks to other editors who were previously uninvolved in the discussion (note the edit summary) . He repeatedly rebuffed every attempt at discussion by other (previously uninvolved) editors by telling them I was violating numerous policies, and advising them to read the entire discussion to see evidence. At least one editor did, and thought that I was acting in good faith .

I filed my earlier WP:RFARB thinking that the Arbitrators could rule on the content dispute, and also on the behavior of this editor. The RfARB was rejected on the basis of it being a content dispute. One of the Arbitrators advised that I seek help from admins on the behavior before trying arbitration.

I went to the NPA message board to make a post about his behavior. After posting, I realized that I should have put an NPA template on his user page as a first step. Note that I removed my post from the NPA board less than a minute later, placed the NPA template on his page, and indicated that I was willing to let the matter end.

Also note that I only made content changes after several other editors agreed. Note also that Blaxthos restricted his notification of this RfARB only to editors who explicitly agreed with his position on content of this RfARB. This is significant because he earlier found it appopriate to notify numerous users of my RfARB and suggested I was somehow hiding the RfARB Cbuhl79 20:35, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Witness Ramsquire(talk)

First, let me state that I am hesitant to question the good faith of any editor on this project. However, I must admit that Cbuhl, actions for the past weeks has frustrated me and left me perplexed. From his wikilawyering, to his refusal to listen to the explanations given by other editors, he has truly stretched the limits of good faith. That being said, sometimes newer users to this project often misunderstand certain concepts like "there are no rules" and the fact this is a community project. I believe Cbuhl just needs guidance on how this project works. Perhaps a reprimand here by the ArbCom would be sufficient. Placing a false NPA warning on a user's talk page, and violating Blaxthos userspace should not "just die". Especially when the user is insistent to use Wiki policies as a sword. Ramsquire 17:50, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Addendum to my earlier statement I just want to make clear that I would support some community action against Cbuhl based on his violations on Blaxthos's userspace, and the improper placing of warning tags. Taken together with his abuse of good faith of editors discussed above (namely me), these actions show a user who will violate the spirits of all Wiki rules, to make a point. Such an attitude is harmful to the community here. When I stated Cbuhl's needed guidance, I meant in the form of some sort of official action, and only suggested an ArbCom reprimand. However, something should be done with this user. Ramsquire 00:22, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Witness AuburnPilot

What started as a simple content dispute, soon became a referendum on one editor's behavior. As the dispute went on, all editors involved in the RfC came to an agreement; however, Cbuhl79 refused to accept that consensus. While consensus can change, Cbuhl initiated a second RfC just hours after the first was closed, very much in bad faith. Attempting to continue a resolved dispute, s/he grasped for any policy or guideline s/he could find to back up his/her position. While that in itself is not bad faith, after numerous editors explained why WP:NPOV was not being violated, and that WP:WEASEL is a guideline that doesn't always apply perfectly, Cbhul continued this dispute, engaging several uninvolved editors via the WP:WEASEL talk page and their individual talk pages. On top of this unending refusal to accept consensus, Cbuhl initiated a Request for Arbitration that s/he has admitted was only to make a point due to another editor's behavior. This easily could have been brushed off as a new user misunderstanding policy, but Cbhul interprets policy in what ever way seems to fit his/her position. Cbhul has even placed inappropriate warning templates on Blaxthos's user and user talk pages, which shows a clear misunderstanding of policy by an established, but misguided user. -- AuburnPilot 18:28, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Statement by Witness Gamaliel

The dispute at the article is (I hope) concluded but the underlying behavior of this user remains a potential future problem and should be dealt with appropriately. Gamaliel 23:46, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Clerk notes

(This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.)

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (4/1/0/0)


Requests for clarification

Requests for clarification from the Committee on matters related to the Arbitration process. Place new requests at the top.


Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Highways - request reexamination of probation ruling

I'm told this is the appropriate place to come for this appeal. In July, I was placed on probation as part of the decision in this RfA. I do not believe this decision was just, and I have chosen not to participate as an editor at Misplaced Pages rather than continue editing while subject to an unjust probation. In the nearly four months since that decision, I believe, subsequent events have demonstrated rather starkly that arbitrator Fred Bauder's initial assessment of the cause of the dispute was correct, and that JohnnyBGood, Rschen7754, and I should never have been placed on probation in relation to this matter. In addition, the underlying dispute has been harmoniously resolved, which suggests that the need for probation, assuming such need ever existed in the first place, has now ended. Accordingly, I request that this probation be formally lifted. Thank you. —phh (/c) 01:03, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Motion made at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration#Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration.2FHighways.23Probation. Fred Bauder 20:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


In response to the points below: a) JohnnyBGood just left the project, leaving at least a few months of good behavior behind him (from July until now). b) My block was controversial, but if my probation is not lifted for a while because of it I will understand; however it should not reflect poorly on the other editors. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 00:31, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Lyndon LaRouche

User:SlimVirgin reverted this edit by 172.194.169.47, with no editing memo explanation. I didn't see the need to do that, so I put the external link back in this edit. SlimVirgin then left a message on my talk page implying that I could be blocked for doing so. I asked for clarification as to whether she was threatening me with a block, and she replied with these words.

I don't plan to replace the external link on the Lyndon LaRouche article, but I would like to know whether SlimVirgin is accurately describing the Arbitration Committee ruling, and whether it really applies to an external link on the Lyndon LaRouche article. There are about 19 footnotes and external links to LaRouche websites on the Lyndon LaRouche article. Are they all forbidden by the Arbitration ruling as well? If not, what makes this particular link different? Please post your answer at Talk:Lyndon_LaRouche#Policy_Question so that other editors will be aware of it. Thanks in advance for your time. --ManEatingDonut 22:08, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

SlimVirgin may have been confused. The relevant ArbCom ruling, in Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Lyndon LaRouche, states:
  • Original work which originates from Lyndon LaRouche and his movement may be removed from any Misplaced Pages article in which it appears other than the article Lyndon LaRouche and other closely related articles.
Thus, LaRouche sources may be used for LaRouche articles. However the link that was added was not relevant to the biography of Lyndon LaRouche, and should haev been remoevd for that reason, not for violating this ruling. -Will Beback 03:38, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
First, for the benefit of the ArbCom, the issue is that the LaRouche publication ManEatingDonut wanted to link to was about a living person.
Will, I would interpret the ArbCom rulings as meaning that LaRouche publications may not be used as sources about third parties, regardless of whether it's in articles about LaRouche or elsewhere. (There's the ruling you quoted, and there was mention of the issue during a case involving Chip and again in relation to Cognition, but I'd have to search for them.) ArbCom apart, the content policies indicate that LaRouche publications may only be used in articles about the LaRouche movement to make points about that movement, and may not be used as third-party sources, whether in articles about LaRouche or anywhere else. The relevant policies are WP:BLP and WP:V. The latter says that sources of dubious reliability — defined as "sources with a poor reputation for fact-checking or with no fact-checking facilities or editorial oversight" — may be used in articles about themselves so long as the material "does not involve claims about third parties ..." SlimVirgin 07:16, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
  • SlimVirgin is correct here. The ban on LaRouche publications being used for any other subject than LaRouche and related subjects includes attempts to get around it by talking about other people on the LaRouche articles. LaRouche publications are useful sources about LaRouche's views about LaRouche himself and his organisations / affiliated parties, but are not acceptable sources about anyone or anything else. Will Beback is also correct that in any case the link given was not on topic for the article and thus deletable anyway. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 14:57, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


I have looked over the article in question (the one that was the target of the external link) and it appears to me that it is entirely "relevant to the biography of Lyndon LaRouche." It discusses many of LaRouche's various campaigns and issues. It is mainly a rebuttal of the theories of Berlet, theories which dominate most of the Misplaced Pages articles on LaRouche. But I am mainly interested in a precise clarification of what the Arbitration ruling means, because I have seen Berlet threaten other editors with this ruling as well (see Talk:National_Caucus_of_Labor_Committees#Disputed.) Perhaps there should be clarification on this example as well. The edit that appears to have provoked the threat is here. --ManEatingDonut 15:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

The material on the external link mainly concerned Chip Berlet, not LaRouche, thus removal was appropriate. Fred Bauder 20:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

There is an additional issue that was under consideration in the first LaRouche case - the fact that LaRouche organizations publish an extremely large amount, responding to all criticisms. Excessive citation of this material when describing controversies surrounding LaRouche leaves the mistaken sense of giving LaRouche the "last word" in every dispute. Phil Sandifer 23:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your responses, but may I also ask whether there was something wrong with this edit referred to above? --ManEatingDonut 06:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Motions in prior cases

(Only Arbitrators may make such motions)


Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Highways#Probation

Moved that JohnnyBGood, Rschen7754, and PHenry be removed from the probation imposed at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Highways#Probation. Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Highways#Log_of_blocks_and_bans shows that only SPUI continues disruption with respect to highway names. Fred Bauder 20:47, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Support:
  1. Fred Bauder 20:47, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Oppose:
  1. That the probation is alleged to be failing in regards to SPUI does not appear to be a good argument to remove it for the precise editors it appears to be succeeding for. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 21:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
  2. PHenry and JohnnyBGood both left the project. That doesn't demonstrate good behavior, even though they may have empty block logs. Rschen does have a block for violation. Dmcdevit·t 08:55, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Abstain:

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