Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Werdnabot (talk | contribs) at 15:27, 1 December 2006 (Automated archival of 6 sections to User talk:Jimbo Wales/Archive 13). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Something fun from Jimbo for the politically inclined

• ]

Archives
as of Jan. 16, 2003 Sept. – Dec. 2005 January 2006 Jan. – Feb. 2006 February 2006 Feb. 2006, cont. March 2006 April 2006 May24 - July 2006 July 2006 - August 2006 August 2006 Most of September 2006 Late September 2006 - Early November 2006 Early November 2006 -

Hello From Homestar Runner Wiki

Hello, Mr. Whales! My name is Brightstar Shiner and I would like to say hello on behalf of all of us at the Homestar Runner Wiki...for no particular reason at all, as it turns out. No I'm not a sysop or a beauracrat or anything, but I'm a nice plain user from over here. You should visit us sometime and talk to more important people like JoeyDay, the proprieter of our wiki. -216.255.63.167, a.k.a. Brightstar Shiner

Michigan-Ohio State Game?

Hey Jimmy, I was wondering if you were going to go the game. It's a chance of a lifetime dude. Go Bucks!

Revert Abuse and Intimidation by Admns.

Jimbo: I have used the subject article Talk page, the Individuals' Talk pages, the Admn. Noticeboard, but with no real attention paid to the issue.

There are a group of editors, including Administrators that are reverting good-faith reliably sourced information, without discussion, in violation of the spirit of Misplaced Pages. This is an allied attempt at gaming the system, and a disgraceful display of conduct.

• 1st revert 20 Novmeber
• 2nd revert: 20 November
• 3rd Revert: 20 November
• 4th Revert: 20 November
• 5th Revert: 21 November
• 6th Revert: 22 November
• 7th Revert: 22 November

The article is basically on lock-down due to an allied group that is violating the spirit of WP:OWN. Please look at all my work that was deleted, as all the reverts involved new information for the article. Disgraceful.

What is your recommendation? This POV oriented group of allies is not interested in collaborating in good-faith and the mass reverts without any discussion illustrate this clearly. I believe they are trying to get me to quit Misplaced Pages out of frustration, that is my honest opinion of this. Can a group of allied editors take over an article, and block all information they dislike? Please review the full content of these reverts tha include whole new paragraphs and sourced info, it's disgraceful conduct. Thanks.Kiyosaki 05:54, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe have a peek at this related ArbCom case. The recommendations there (see for instance "Remedies" section), which FYI are not Jimbo's but the ArbCom's, include using procedures and techniques as explained at Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution. --Francis Schonken 15:03, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay something is strange. Homeontherange and Bhouston have blank user and talk pages, no edits, and show they are not even users. What happened? Anomo 15:14, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't know about Bhouston. The situation with Homeontherage got rather nasty (to put it mildly), the last thing I heard about it: Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive62#Homeontherange as "Nick Cockburn" and User:Roncey Valley. Not an example of Misplaced Pages:WikiLove (neither way that is).

Homeontherange and Bhouston both changed their usernames and left Misplaced Pages. They also both asked for the pages of their original usernames to be deleted. Therefore links to their original user pages failed to redirect to the user pages of their new names. The admin who deleted Bhouston's user page has since restored it, and I've recreated Homeontherange's user page myself. Links to user:Bhouston and user:Homeontherange now redirect to pages from which you can access their contributions. Thanks for pointing this out! Kla'quot 20:35, 25 November 2006 (UTC) For privacy reasons, Homeontherange did not want his user page to redirect to his new user name, so the page has been deleted again. His contributions log still exists. Kla'quot 20:41, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Note that also KimvdLinde, involved in that ArbCom, more or less left soon after, but I recall her saying this ArbCom case wasn't the real (or "exclusive") cause. Oops. Stumbled in to this one, while looking for that previous diff: User:KimvdLinde/SV-RfAR. --Francis Schonken 15:33, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict) LOL, I know who the main reverter is. She's always complained about on wikipediareview.com; why they single her out I don't know when she's mild compared to a lot of the article ownings. Another one of the reverters is running for ArbCom so be sure to vote since at least one article owners (not the ones you are complaining about) have been on ArbCom in the past and through it gotten CheckUser. Anomo 15:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Jimbo: What can a person do if the abuse by administrators is in a Misplaced Pages that has not implemented yet mechanisms of resolution for conflicts nor has implemented mechanisms to dismiss the administrators that misbehave? I was just blocked in Misplaced Pages (es) by an administrator that has a history of aggressiveness, that voted in favor of deleting my work (then, he became an interested party), that expressed publicly his despise for my work (“it is not possible that “this” have the longest article in Misplaced Pages in Spanish”). Now, being a Judge, a part and an executioner at the same time, has blocked my account during the voting, defense and corrections steps (for one day), because I complained about the system (without appeal instances as in English Wiki, among other thinks) and because I complained of personal attacks against my person and family by one of the users (they came to know my real name). The work is related to the genealogy of my family since the year 844 and the evolution of the last name in France, England, Italy, Spain and America. Many histories and personalities were described, with a number of references (from books, etc.), including the story of "Nessie and Saint Columba", "Bonafusus de Sancta Columba", the first person granted a Patent, and the musician Sainte Colombe of France, among many others. The work is in Spanish (Santa Coloma (apellido)). I would appreciate any help. Kind regards, --Tasc1 00:37, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

• This is exactly the same bunch, acting in the same way. Jimbo, that article is not being vetted to appropriate standards and this is why. What next?

Administrators admonished

2) All involved administrators are admonished not use their administrative tools without prior discussion and consensus, and to avoid using them so as to continue an editing dispute. Humus sapiens, ChrisO, Kim van der Linde, SlimVirgin, and Jayjg are reminded to use mediation and other dispute resolution procedures sooner when conflicts occur.

   Passed 6 to 0 at 20:28, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Jimbo: We all seem to have similar problems with administrator abuses, not matter the language (English, Spanish, ..) of Misplaced Pages. It is amazing. I have exactly the same problems described above in w:es, with administrators that appear all together in a few minutes (or few hours) to impose their will. Probably they should not be allowed to vote. An admin cannot be Judge and party at the same time (in my modest opinion). Sometimes, after voting, (so, becoming an interested party), they still use their privileges as administrators to block a page, impose pressure on editors, etc. I suggest that appeal procedures for misconduct of administrators be implemented in all Misplaced Pages languages, as a part of the main principles of wikipedia, to avoid and define non-ethical behavior. I normally contribute to the Spanish wikipedia as (Tasc), but I am here to get some advice from Misplaced Pages. Regards colleagues, and have a peaceful day. --Tasc1 17:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Same Conduct again

ChrisO above mentions that SlimVirgin/Jayjg/Humus sapiens are a team. I recently ran into this team (on July 4th) and got banned for 24hrs for adding sourced information. Tag-teamed by SlimVirgin and Jayjg (I still do not know how Jayjg so conviently arrived on the scene to help SlimVirgin out once she ran out of reverts), reported by SlimVirgin and banned by Humus Sapiens.Kiyosaki 12:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

The Same Conduct/Abuse Again

Statement by Homeontherange

This particular article aside, I think some investigation is warranted in the "tag-team" activities of SlimVirgin, Jayjg and Humus Sapiens not only in this article but in a swath of articles which touch upon Israel. They behave in a highly factional manner that seems to be co-ordinated and the fact that they are all admins and one is an ArbComm member only adds to the problem. There also seems to be some coordination and vote-stacking occuring, possibly via email or IRC - it's curious for instance that within 90 minutes 6 editors turn up in a row to support a proposal by Jayjg and in the matter of a poll on the name of the Israeli apartheid article, following SV, Humus and Jay being criticised for acting (again in a coordinated manner) to change the name of an article when there is no consensus in the vote to do so, a dozen people suddenly show up in a row to vote to change the article, a number of whom have never edited the article before.Kiyosaki 12:05, 23 November 2006 (UTC) Yep

The point is that objective criticism of Israel and its practices face difficulty in being expressed on Misplaced Pages. Fred Bauder 02:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC) That is clearly why articles are not vetted correctly.Kiyosaki 12:19, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Kiyosaki,

Again I want to express clearly I have no ambition to reply in Jimbo's place, these are exclusively my own observations:

• I think the best initiative you took in this issue, de facto applying the ArbCom remedy you quoted above, is this one:
• Now, and that is the reason I leave you a note here, there seems to be a problem with the bot processing the new Mediation Cabal requests: ; so *patience* is a key word now (until the request is processed). Sorry about that. I'm missing "WikiCourage" to go rattle some trees.

@Jimbo,

No idea how reliable Kiyosaki is as a Wikipedian, and as far as I'm concerned that is not even the issue here. W.r.t. the problem he mentions I think the principle at stake is: "There must be no cabal, there must be no elites, there must be no hierarchy or structure which gets in the way of this openness to newcomers." --Francis Schonken 12:51, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

This article was recently discussed in n ArbCom case. Rather than throw accusations right and left, editors need to follow the dispute resolution process and expand the number of editors looking at that article. The dispute has nothing to do with "admin abuse", btw. As many articles about which there are strong POVs, it is not always easy to reach NPOV status, and this article is no exception. Those editors that want to use WP as a platform for advocating a POV, be that pro or con, should be reminded to engage editors in constructive discussions that can bring the article to a state that opposing sides can live with. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 19:21, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

To Kiyosaki, I would say this: have patience, and learn the way the Misplaced Pages works. Making allegations of admin abuse is not useful: you will atract more bees with honey, than with vinegar. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 19:24, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

For what it is worth, I have worked on articles with both Jayjg and Slim Virgin. does this make me a member of some cabal? I call it "collaboration" which is what Misplaced Pages is all about. Personally, I find that they edit on topics about which they are knowledgable, and have a firm commitment to complying with our policies. I have even, at times, had disagreements with them - this is inevitable. I never found them to do anything unreasonable or to treat me unreasonably. I have interacted with Humus Sapiens too but to a much lesser degree, all I can say is s/he has never done anything unseemly as far as I can tell. I think if an editor has a problem with another editor, they should go through our established process rather than cast aspersions on their character here. Slrubenstein | Talk 19:30, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I absolutely second that. I seldom find myself editing the same articles as SlimVirgin and Jayjg, but when I do, I usually have the opposing POV. Nevertheless, I have found them both very ready to discuss things civilly on the talk pages. I have little or no experience with Humus Sapiens, but since he's accused by the same person — one who loses credibility by making statements like "SlimVirgin and Jayg are Jewish editors that are liars" — I don't feel inclined to believe immediately that Humus Sapiens is an abusive admin. AnnH ♫ 02:40, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

According to Brandt's website, he says, "she's a brilliant editor and writer when she is truly neutral" but later complains when she's not neutral combined with admin abilities. Thing is neutrality is sort of hard--it's not something one person can do on their own, it takes many people. I also don't think SlimVirgin really does anything that bad. If you want to see bad, well there's a certain really higher-up in the power structure who makes sure that Transsexualism, Transwoman, Shemale never have any pictures or diagrams in them. Anomo 05:35, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

SlimVirgin and Jayg are Jewish editors that are liars. They are POV editors that keep Misplaced Pages articles from being vetted honestly. How is this not obvious to Jimbo?

PS I do not believe people have reviewed the edits themselves. None, nobody. I believe if you review the edits and the RS, and attempts to NPOV the article, one might see. But nobody ever does, they discuss everything but. Kindly review the edits and the info, if you are interested in seeing that the artcile gets vetted correctly. The "team" revert abuse is something I will never, ever forget.Kiyosaki 08:26, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

A couple of people with similar strong feelings on a subject who have the same articles on their watchlists and have similar reactions to edits thereto does not a "team" make. I find myself editing many of the same article sand have some of the same reactions, I'm hoping this doesn't make me a member of the "farm team" or some such. Gzuckier 14:58, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

something is terribly lerking in de wiki cupboards.

Dear Mr. Wales after I have been told that this page is not for problems only for positive vibrations I would kindly like to ask if you could tell us something about the last German donation from Wikimedia e.V. There has not been any donation after the last one which was about 200 000 € if you believe some administrators. This donation was mentioned to buy new more powerfull servers. Nobody of the donators got any evidence what has been done with the money. But after the donation they implemented a CEO at Wikimedia ( How are they financing themselves if this is open content and wageless voluntered working ??? ) Many speculations even from administrators say, that the donation money has probably been misused for that matter. If I see the way how wikimedia Germany behaves after some people have already asked that question it might be true. It is a matter of fact that these questioners were chased and chucked out. Why ??? I am terribly upset about this because this is destroying the credibility of a brilliant and perfect idea.

Perhaps you can deal with that matter and solve this ansavory question.

Yours sincerely --Ekkenekepen 09:12, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Money from donations can NOT be missused by Wikimedia e.V., trust me the "Finanzamt" keeps a close look at all "e. V."s, if they would missuse any money they would loose their "Gemeinnützigkeit"status. FreddyE 10:36, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

So what happened with the money then ???--Ekkenekepen 10:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Who solves an unevidenced molestation and stalking accusation which is google linked under the name of the accused person ???

It is very interesting that nobody seems to be responsible for a molestation and stalking accusation from administress ( De wiki ) Bdk No administrator is taking over any responsibility

This is a very serious matter

Also I have been accused for Stalking ( Thats nonsens )

I tried to figgure out the real names of the persons who accused me beeing a nazi Because Bdk thought I violated the Misplaced Pages rules she played a busyboddy. All Datas i figgured out where given by an intensive Internet enquiry. Because she meddled in I sayed let it be it is not your duty.

And then the trouble was on.

I really mean that blackmailing other Wikipedians over sexual accusation is more than only nasty. That is criminial and she knows that for certain. Motto: You stay out of wikipedia and we erase the never happened accusation. The time seems not ripe for mankind for such a brilliant idea like wikipedia.

That has to do with Dukkha Nirodha, Magga andSamudaya ( articles I have been involved inside German wikipedia before they chucked me out ) It is very interesting that I have not had any problems for nearly exact one year in de wiki. Please follow my articles from beggining. [http://de.wikipedia.org/Spezial:Contributions/Ekkenekepen ]The article Screenprinting was a joint venture from a swiss guy ( lengwiler ) and some others. Lengwiler nearly does 90% of this work.

All the best but the ongoing development is not very optimistic for me anymore

Yours sincerely

Olaf Klenke ( state certified printing engineer )--Ekkenekepen 10:09, 24

Illegal blocking of User:Bowser Koopa

A user by the name of Bowser Koopa has been blocked from wikipedia without proper warning. User:AuburnPilot was the one who reported Bowser Koopa to User:Metros232, who immediately blocked Bowser Koopa and labeled him a "vandalism only" account. I am addressing this because Bowser Koopa only vandalised ONE page and was warned for it. He only received one warning of his actions. He goofed around with his talk page but received no warning or anything(he only received a hint). AuburnPilot then told Bowser Koopa that the talk page was not "his" and that anybody could say whatever they want and that Bowser Koopa could not delete it without their permission. He then went to AuburnPilot's talk page and posted a fake vandalism warning as a joke, yet it was deleted without Bowser Koopa's permission and AuburnPilot reported him to Metros232, who ignored the fact Bowser Koopa never received a final warning and blocked him indefinately. Not only was one rule ignored, but another(deleting a message on a talk page without permission) was also committed. There is major hypocrisy here that I want to stop. I am requesting Bowser Koopa be unblocked and given another chance, and for Metros232 to be accountable for his mistakes. That is all.

-User:Captain Insano shows no mercy

Look, take this to WP:ANI. I've told you this twice now, once on WP:AIV. Read the top of this talk page. --Deskana talk 20:03, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to Deskana and War Eagle to Mr. Wales. AuburnPilot 21:02, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Bomis

Are you ever going to stop teasing, and tell people what it meant? Or if indeed it ever meant anything? -- Zanimum 20:02, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

English Misplaced Pages's policy towards using of Chinese characters in title

I'm recently working on Chinese surname articles. Here is the fact, completely different surnames might have exactly the same pronunciation and romanization, but on the other hand, many same surnames of China origin have found and extensively used in other East Asian countries with different pronunciations and romanizations. Chinese character to Roman is not a relation of one-to-one or one-to-more, but more-to-more. The relation is too complex to figure out what the surname actually be only by its romanizations. There is no way to organize each surname under one single article title unless we use Chinese characters in title to disambiguate (only for disambiguation purpose). I'm propose to use "Pinyin (Chinese) (surname)" form of title for surname articles, this can be read and edit (but not create) by both people who can or cannot speak Chinese, no matter if he/she has installed Chinese font. As a IT/computing expert, I see no technical problem by using Chinese characters at Misplaced Pages. But it seems this is difficult to be accepted by the community. Could you please have a look at this discussion at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Lǐ (李) (surname). Yao Ziyuan 08:21, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

First, a rant, and then some limited support for your proposal. :)

I am deeply, deeply opposed to the use of ALL non-English characters in the titles of articles in English Misplaced Pages in most cases. This is already a horrible problem in such cases as Stanisław Lem. Look closely at that... it contains the character "ł", which is not an English character. Therefore, it is wrong as a title for an article in the English Misplaced Pages. Because of the nature of English as a mongrel language with no official academy or spelling rules, there can be rare exceptions where some special non-English characters are extremely well known as part of a proper name. I accept this. So be it. But this is not license to play it deuces-wild and dispense with the entire English spelling system.

The correct name of Munich, in English, is Munich. This despite the fact that it could be written as the Germans write it: München, or perhaps even Anglicized as Muenchen. The correct English name for the capital of Japan is Tokyo. It would be deeply wrong to write that "The capital of 日本 is 東京." It would be also wrong to say "The capital of Nippon is Tōkyō... or any other variant. In English the name is "Tokyo".

Now, having given that rant, I find that I must take what might seem to some a contradictory position. In the case you are considering... purely for disambiguation purposes, the subject of the page is, in a sense, the character itself. I find this to be an interesting proposal, and I promise not to blow a gasket about it. It is not for me to decide of course.

(And notice that although I think the community has made a deeply wrong decision in the case of Stanisław Lem, I keep mostly quiet about that, too.)

--Jimbo Wales 02:47, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't mean to take the conversation off on a tangent here, and I hope I am not breaching wikiquette by asking in this location, but: Where might someone like me find out more about this issue of using non-English characters in articles (and especially article titles)? Where, for example, is the discussion in which the "community" made this "deeply wrong decision" to allow the use of "ł" in a title? (I am not even sure what that is, I just copied-and-pasted it from the usage above.) Is there a policy on this that I have never come across? I cannot imagine what the justification for such a thing would be. I hate to be parochial here, but English is English. We do not have slashes through letters or umlauts or tildes or any of those things. Nothing against languages that do, but this particular Misplaced Pages isn't written in any of them, it's written in English. Well, mostly in English, as I have now learned. 6SJ7 03:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

There are a few English words borrowed from foreign languages that often keep their diacritical marks, like café and piñata, and they are preserved in the Misplaced Pages articles on them as well. *Dan T.* 03:38, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Jimbo, I am one of the participants in the debate whether to use Chinese characters in page names and I would like to thank you for your input. I think it is wrong to draw a parallel between the use of diacritics in Latin-based names and Chinese characters.

First, it is hard to draw the line where diacritics should be considered non-English or not. Not long ago, it was considered proper English to write: coöperation, reënactment, rôle and archæology, etc.

Furthermore, in case diacritics are used, it is very easy to create disambiguation pages that will lead user to the "correct" page. Type Stanisław Lem or Stanislaw Lem and you get directed to the same page.

However, when it comes to the use of Chinese characters in page names, we are potentially raising a barrier to many users, at least as long as we can assume the majority of English Misplaced Pages's cannot type Chinese. If we set a precent for this, there is nothing that prevents us from creating pages with Arabic, Hindi, Hebrew, Cyrillic texts, which may make parts of Misplaced Pages inaccessible for many user.

Just my two cents.--Niohe 16:14, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Liars, SlimVirgin and Jayjg, plus allies

Jimbo, do you accept that these people push lies into Misplaced Pages? Do you care if articles are properly vetted? Kindly respond on my Talk Page. ThanksKiyosaki 08:46, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

FYI,

• Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-11-22 Allegations of Israeli Apartheid has been opened;
• User:Wikizach is your mediator in that informal mediation procedure;
• What will happen next? Well, I read at Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal:

  One of our fine cabalists will contact you via the method that you specified in order to find out more information about the dispute and agree with you what to do about it. Please note that we all have day jobs, and consequently it might take a little time before we get around to speaking to you :-) The cabalist looking into your request will contact the other parties involved and mediate as appropriate and according to what you requested, working with all people concerned in order to resolve the dispute.

  So again, I'd recommend you to be *patient* until these things start happening;
• If you have trouble keeping patient, might I recommend a reading of Misplaced Pages:Staying cool when the editing gets hot? Adding my personal thought: you'd need to be very, very cool if you want something positive to come out of this;
• Thus far you haven't always been cool... For instance, if you go around Misplaced Pages calling people liars, that is an infringement of Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks. Just don't. --Francis Schonken 09:43, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank You. I am glad someone, who is not part of the allied team will look into it. Their conduct is disgraceful, period.Kiyosaki 10:23, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Jimbo comment (Jayjg, SlimVirgin Abuse)

You wrote:

"I have reviewed the history of the article in question, and I see you engaged in highly biased editing in a spirit that can hardly be called co-operative search for the truth."

Can you show the specific edits you refer to? Please show. I cannot believe this. Kindly show what you are referring to. For chrissakes, SlimVirgin and Jayjg operate a team that is highly abusive. ARE YOU NOT AWARE of this?

I have studied and have seen the discussions via Misplaced Pages and the internet, and the dishonesty is disgraceful. Unbelievable. Thanks.Kiyosaki 10:22, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

You write such racist remarks as "Hebrew POV" whatever that means, and call the edits of others in the article "vandalism" when they are clearly not. You come here and accuse people of "dishonesty". At the same time, you keep inserting the same material over and over again while not addressing the concerns people have on the talk page. Again, I recommend that you lay off the article for a couple of weeks and come back to it with a fresh and calm eye.--Jimbo Wales 16:14, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

A check user request, and some very distinctive writing, shows that User:Kiyosaki is a reincarnation of the so-called Disruptive Apartheid Editor, a banned and very troublesome user, who used to vandalize user pages with things like "jayjg is a filthy jew, unclean." I've blocked the account indefinitely. SlimVirgin 03:41, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I've put in the "separation" for the discourse above, the "-----", so I could better study what WP policy is in practice. I have no idea about this WP "fight" except what I read above. Good luck to you all, and may the best WP knight win! --Ludvikus 18:48, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Very, very interesting!!! I've wondered what, or how Misplaced Pages handles crackpot, hate-mongers, antisemites, paranoids, etc. By following the above discource, I now have an idea. And it seems like hard work. You all deserve a Medal for it. As soon as I learn how to give you one (a Barnstar?), I think I will.

But more important, it is an outlet, and a net to discovery for such--do you see what I mean?

It's another Fringe benefit of WP.

PS: How come there is no article on/titled Hate-mongering - or is there?

Yours truly, Ludvikus 19:10, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Greetings, 21st Century Guttenberg & "Nobel Peace Prize for !"

You should get the Nobel Peace Prize for your development of Misplaced Pages!!!

I'm a proud WP author! Now a couple of suggestions.

• A Spellchecker directly on the Edit Page of an article might be extremely useful.
  • A How To book (Hardcopy) for Wikipedians by an expert profession writer would definitely be read by me. Now I've learned my stuff by the old Trial & Error method. May I recommend that, with your well-deserved great reputation that you recommend Wikipedianism for DUMMIES!
    • Best Wishes, Ludvikus 22:00, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

PS: Am I the FIRST? to recommend it — the {{Nobel Peace Prize]] for Jimmy Wales? If so I'd like to be on record for it.

By the way, I am much more interested in the fringe benefits of WP- the benefits other than the 50,000 item Encyclopedia for each major Natural language of the [[World, etc. I'm interested in what it does to the WEB as a source of Information — and the fact that it often is AT THE TOP OF THE LIST of a GOOGLE SEARCH!!!

And a fringe benefit of that--among many others — is that everytime I, as a Wikipedian, write an artice (reputable of course), my world-wide Reputation as a Scholar rises!!!

I'm also going to try — using the Influence of WP, to Coin a Word — Conceptology. Perhaps one might get at an idea of what I mean by it, by contracting it with Narratology.

Also, I LOVE how Democratic it is - at least potentially - you need a Computer, an Internet access provider, etc.

There are so many permutations of its power - my final example it this: although Jimmy Wales does not know me, if my ideas a sound and/or significant, or important enough, I have an excellent chance of establishing communicating with him.

Yours truly, Ludvikus 18:38, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Jimbo, your wisdom...

could you please use it here:Talk:Chiefs (Super rugby franchise)? Thank you.--Hamedog_Talk| 03:07, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Ich auch studiere Deutsch

Two songs that I've found especially good for study: Neuer Morgen and Tausend Tränen tief by the band Blumfeld. Ich hoffe, daß du de-2 erreicht! Mithridates 05:32, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

You should get the Nobel Prize. Seriously.

It's a grave injustice that you haven't received a Nobel Prize yet, what with all the awesomeness you've brought to the world. I consider the wiki to be the greatest invention of the 21st century. I've made almost 500 edits since I joined twenty days ago. I'm a very active Wikipedian! Floaterfluss 17:53, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. I don't think there's a Nobel Prize category that creating Misplaced Pages falls into. There's no category for "inventions" or media. So other kinds of awards maybe, but no Nobel I'm afraid. Newyorkbrad 17:57, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually Wikimedia Foundation's mission of providing a 💕 of 50,000 words to every person on the planet in their native language might fit under the Peace Prize umbrella. The project has succeeded at that goal in 18 languages so far, which means somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of the world's population could read a good sized Misplaced Pages in at least a second language. I'd say the idea is premature but not totally unrealistic. Durova 19:43, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is the best thing that happened in information technology since the invention of computers. Jimbo Wales certainly deserves to receive a Nobel peace prize.

--Meno25 08:58, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Jimbo will probably one day win it, or co-win it with Larry Sanger. The only shortcoming mainly is that most information is certain languages so say the starving children in Africa can't read it and the Mexicans who come to the USA illegally and won't learn English also can't read it (I saw the Spanish portal and it had hardly anything). Anomo 09:04, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Believe me one day the old "whore" Babylon will be not there anymore, and believe me the world language will be English. Mr. Wales idea goes far beyond the factor time. The Nobel Price should be given for his Nostradamic Vision belonging future development and the possible loss of knowledge. This is the reason why I would like to pimp up the information belonging some articles. But this is by far not this easy in the stubborness of De wiki.--Ekkenekepen 14:09, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

creator of Misplaced Pages

As creator of Misplaced Pages, do you know exactly when Misplaced Pages was created?. (like January 15th _ _:00 AM/PM)--PrestonH 18:33, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages's oldest articles. If you mean when was it created conceptually, Jimbo would have to answer that, but somehow I doubt he could pin it down to a time. . . Chick Bowen 06:52, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

The actual website was launched in the morning of January 15th, as I recall. I don't regard this as a particularly significant fact.--Jimbo Wales 18:47, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Why don't you regard this as significant? If you think of Misplaced Pages as a country (I know this seems kinda lame), we would either celebrate the day Misplaced Pages was first settled or the day of a treaty creating the country. Now while Misplaced Pages isn't a country, shouldn't we take this day seriously?--Hamedog_Talk| 01:17, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Chowbok RfC

I have tried to address the viewpoint you expressed in the Chowbok RfC. I believe the quoted exchange shows that he is actually opposed to the current fair use policy on wikipedia and has or would tag images contrary to that policy. I may be mistaken about the referenced image being fair use, but he also states he would object to a television screenshot in place of the publicity photo, in which case there are a tremendous number of articles which should be tagged according to him - namely all the television and movie screenshots of living persons used in their articles. While his work may be useful, I think we all need some very specific clarification on what is an acceptable use of a publicity photo or screenshot for a famous person.

Request help for clarification on Fair Use policies

Jimbo, I know you got a bunch of stuff to do so I rarely post here, but I wanted a quick clarification about fair use images if you could briefly comment on the matter. There's a dispute on Ann Coulter about which image to use:

• Image:Coulter-Silver-dress.jpegA fair-use image that's better looking (no offense).
• A free image (taken by you) that's a bit less quality.
• Your image photoshopped by moi.

Relevant passage from Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria:

Always use a more free alternative if one is available. Such images can often be used more readily outside the U.S. If you see a fair use image and know of an alternative more free equivalent, please replace it, so the Misplaced Pages can become as free as possible. Eventually we may have a way to identify images as more restricted than GFDL on the article pages, to make the desire for a more free image more obvious.

Which trumps in this case, the quality of the image (which is pretty much unanimous that the fair-use is better quality) or the copyright status? --kizzle 09:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Copyright status. Guy (Help!) 12:27, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Concur. What's fair about using someone else's photo without permission or compensation when obviously it was possible to get a substitute? This isn't like Marilyn Monroe with her skirt blown up where that one image is essential and nothing else will replace it; there's nothing special about the top photo that necessitates using that particular image. Kat Walsh (spill your mind?) 13:49, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Clarification requested

See Misplaced Pages talk:Reliable sources#Unclear sentence. Tx. --Francis Schonken 10:33, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Houston McCoy / Charles Whitman

I see that you made some edits to the McCoy article. Could you take a gander at Whitman as well? John Moore hit Whitman (and continues to do so every few weeks) as hard as he hit McCoy. --Woohookitty 15:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

How do Netizens felicitate you

Hi I am simply overawed with your work and wanna know how we should felicitate you?--Darrendeng 16:20, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Semi-protection tag

Hi Jimbo. I just wanted to drop by to address you about a comment you made on mail.wikimedia.org which addressed Semi-protection tags. I saw were you said that the {{sprotected}} tag was "misleading and scary and distracting to readers".

I just wanted to point your attention to a new template that I created called {{sprotected2}}. Instead of the big template at the top, it adds a picture of a lock in the corner and links to WP:SEMI. It also categorizes it in the semi-protection category like the original template. Sprotection2 is currently being used on the George W. Bush article too.

Just thought I would let you know just in case you wanted to check it out :) semper fi — Moe 22:05, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you...

...for the vote of confidence & kind words on my RFC. I very much appreciate it. —Chowbok ☠ 22:45, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

More on fair use screenshots

I have responded to your statements about fair use in the Chowbok RfC with a number of examples of very similar fair use to the image of a newscaster I posted. In fact, every where I looked I found the same use of copyrighted images. I don't see the difference of a local personality versus a national, except as far as a person may even be considered significant enough for an article - if the article if appropriate, the picture is as appropriate as any other fair use of a celebrity. For every national celebrity, there is a wikipedia editor contributor who lives near them, and national celebrities make more, better announced public appearances than local ones.

For your reference:

Tom_Brokaw screenshot

David_Brinkley book cover not used to describe book

Gary_Coleman screenshot

Howie_Mandel screenshot

Katie_Couric screenshot down below in article

Regis_Philbin publicity photo

I think Misplaced Pages:Fair_use needs an update and all the fair use screenshots to be gone over (including the articles they are used in, as some are not articles about the direct subject of the screenshot), because it is not clear from Misplaced Pages:Fair_use or the precedents of existing articles that screenshots of people to depict them in biographical articles are not appropriate. Fourdee 00:20, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, Brinkley's dead, so fair use is appropriate in that case. But the rest of the images should indeed be removed. Barring a change in policy soon, one of us will get to those hopefully not too long from now. —Chowbok ☠ 01:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I am concerned about pornographic pictures on Main Page

Jimbo, I am taking the unusual step of writing to you directly to raise my concern about placing the Featured Article History of erotic depictions on the Main Page (I have also posted my concerns on the Main Page discussion area). I don't believe it helps Misplaced Pages in the least to showcase such an article. While I am not calling for censorship, I do believe that we need to be respectful on the Main Page, and not display, as is now the case, a drawing of a sex act. Since you continue to set the tone for Misplaced Pages, I thought that I would at least bring this to your attention. Thank you, Madman 05:08, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I think it shows the diversity of Misplaced Pages and the maturity level expected by our editors and users. — Deckiller 05:51, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

How is calling for us not to promote our best content for the sake of the sensibilities of a minority not calling for censorship? --Sam Blanning 10:56, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Showing restraint and special handling of the Main Page is not overturning the "no censorship" rule. The Main Page is already treated differently, e.g. it can only ever be edited be a select few. This exception was applied knowing the special status of the Main Page. I am suggesting that we continue to be particularly sensitive to what is on the Main Page. Madman 21:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Jimmy doesn't control the Featured Articles. Well... He does, technically, but he didn't have a say in the nomination. Complain to someone else. oTHErONE_(Contribs) 11:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

To nitpick, Jimbo controls everything, if he wants to, and if all other avenues are exhausted then he can be appealed to as a last resort. But it's true that he's unlikely to intervene here, as what those against having sex on the front page need to do is try to gain consensus to change Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not (censored for the protection of minors) if they want the choice of today's featured article to reflect their sensibilities. As it's one of our oldest and most fundamental policies, I doubt Jimbo will order its alteration himself. --Sam Blanning 11:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

More to the point, from the usual understanding of 'last resort' you'd have to have exhausted everything else (RFC, RFM, Arbcom etc.) before Jimbo would do anything about it, and that hasn't occured here. Besides which, WP:NOT censored for minors. WP:NOT applies to every page, including the main page. Cynical 12:06, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

As mentioned, I have posted on the Main Page discussion board, but have been very disappointed at the level of discourse there, which almost exclusively runs to sarcasm, snide remarks, misrepresentation, and setting up strawmen. I thought that Jimbo may be more sensitive to the public perception of Misplaced Pages than the folks who hang out there and, if nothing else, be aware of the public face of Misplaced Pages this day. Madman 21:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Removal of FU images - exception from 3RR and from "don't block in content dispute" rules?

Jimbo, I would appreciate your clarification on two slightly unclear areas when users or admins are trying to cleanup the overuse of non-free images. One area is the three-revert rule; the other is the rule against blocking someone you're in a dispute with.

Regarding the three-revert rule, the policy page lists certain exceptions — self reverts, reverting vandalism, etc. It does not list the removal of non-free images.

I'm not as familiar with the fair use policy as I should be. If I see a non-free image in user space, I do remove it (or ask the user to); but I generally stay out of disputes concerning non-free images in an article, because it's possible to differ over how necessary such an image is. I do, however, support those who take on this thankless work.

If User:X removes a fair use image from User:Y's user page, and User:Y reverts him, then User:Y is supported by User:Z, so User:X ends up violating 3RR, I am certainly not going to block User:X for his 3RR violation, and I might, in fact, block the other two users for continuing to put back non-free images after being told it's against policy. That seems very clear, and I feel it should perhaps be listed as an exception in the 3RR page.

However, when it concerns articles, it's less clear. I'm known to be an admirer of Pope Benedict XVI. If I start edit warring over an image on his page (which I haven't done, by the way), it could be ostensibly because I'm concerned about overuse of FU images, but in reality, it could be because the image I'm removing makes him look nasty. Nobody could know for sure what my motives were. Even in a case where I don't have a strong POV concerning a character, if I'm working on a particular article, I certainly have wishes and opinions concerning the appearance of the article, so my motives could never be seen by everyone as completely neutral.

However, there are users who do a lot of work in this area. If you look at their contributions, you'll see that they go from one page to another, removing FU images, explaining why in the edit summary, and moving to another article that has too many questionable FU images. Such users are obviously going to the FU images and getting to the articles from there, rather than having an interest in the article and then removing the image because it's flattering to somone they hate or unflattering to someone they admire. Nevertheless, such editors are sometimes blocked or threatened with 3RR blocks. See for example this section (and the subheadings) from AN/I Archive 125.

That brings me to my second point, concerning blocks. In the incident referred to above, Kelly Martin suggested that Ed should not have been blocked in the first place, because he should have blocked the user who restored the images, in which case he would never have had to make a fourth revert. Others disagreed, saying that that would have been using the blocking facility to gain advantage in a content dispute. I did not feel it could validly be seen as a content dispute, because Ed had not (as far as I know) shown any prior interest in the article itself. He seemed to have arrived at it just as part of his work cleaning up on overuse of unfree images. Others thought that since it's possible to disagree on whether or not a fair use image can justifiably be used in a particular article, that a user would have no right to break 3RR, and an admin who had been reverted when removing an image would have no right to block.

Could you please clarify, as this issue is still arising. For example, could the admin who was removing images in this dispute have blocked the user in question? My feeling is that he could, at the time (the dispute is over now as someone found a free image), but it would be nice if there could be something official on it. When is something a content dispute (for 3RR and blocking purposes) and when is it not a content dispute?

Many thanks. AnnH ♫ 12:01, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Joint venture

A pig and a chicken are having a party.

After a couple of beers the chicken has got a marvellous cheeky idea.

Well pig lets start a joint venture lets make ham and eggs.

The pig, terribly drunk says: " OK that'll serve me fine lets do it".

After a terrible hangover next morning the pig remembered the joint venture deal.

"Hey chicken I overthought this ham and eggs deal and this ain't no fair deal for me because I frigging have to die if we do it".

The chicken answered: Well thats normal for a Joint venture one partner alltimes kicks the bucket ( pegs out )

Kind regards

--Ekkenekepen 13:02, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Yasser Arafat

Really? Goofigure.com is a reliable source? The website's logo has the subtitle: "Life's logical loonies." --Strothra 22:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

There are many sources which indicate the core point. Sorry I picked a bad one.--Jimbo Wales 23:17, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Images

First, compliments for the idea of Misplaced Pages. I'm from Italy, spending much of my life here since last year... I've recently read you hinted to the possibility of something "big" you could "buy", thourgh Wikimedia funds, to improve content here. I posted there the need to buy copyrights for good technical images. While text in the articles is, in a way or another, nearing an acceptable lever, we are really lacking technical drawings here, apart some noteworthy exceptions (to make an example, a cut off of a plane, the complete drawing of a distillery, the technical details of a CPU, plans of major cities etc.). Apart for the possibility you could choose to use the funds to this specific field, have you ever thought about this problem? Do you see any other immediate or medium-time solution for it? Bye and good works. --Attilios 00:46, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

MfD for Department of Fun project

Hi Jimbo and it is my pleasure to talk to you,

I'd like to say that a page called User:AtionSong/World's_Longest_Poem has been nominated for deletion here. This poem is a project of the Department of Fun. As you are a member of this Department, I would appreciate your comments on whether the poem should be kept or not, either here, on my talk page, or on the actual MFD.

Thanks in advance, Jimbo!

Best wishes,

Yuser31415 01:00, 1 December 2006 (UTC)