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User talk:Durin

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Hi

my name is Santo Calarco. You have been actively involved in deleting material that has been sent into wikipedia about me - as recent as August and October this year. How can I find out what the contents of the article were and who it is that is writing about me? I am a minister of religion and would like to talk with this person who obviously has something against me - maybe we can sort this thing out. Anyway, thanks for protecting me from this slanderous information. If you can send me a copy of what was written and any attempted updates that would be great.

Rev Santo Calarco — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.229.10.219 (talk • contribs) 19:54, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Hello

I'm currently undergoing an Editor review, and am trying to get a large amount of replies. I am sending messages to those who left me a message on my talk page as a way of getting the word out. I encourage you to add your two cents to the review! Thanks for your time, and Happy Thanksgiving! FireSpike Editor Review! 21:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

ST47 RFA

You accidentally removed Guy's vote - crz crztalk 17:22, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Question about fair use

Durin, you seem to know a lot about fair use policy. Concerning this case, can you tell me who's right (if you're online)? I don't mean who's right about it being 3RR. I mean about images for album covers only being allowed in articles about the album, not articles about the band. I'm sure I could find out if I spent a while researching it, but since you do a lot of work on fair use policy, you might be able to tell me directly. Thanks. AnnH ♫ 21:43, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

  • This is debatable and open to interpretation. By Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria item #8, it's arguable that the image should not appear on the band's page, but only on the album's page. An example case; it's often been the case that an image of an actor from a particular show is removed from an article on that actor if the image is not being used to directly comment on that actor and the show. This goes contested sometimes, but frequently does not. This is a similar case, but being extended to albums/bands. My own personal take is that this is situation where we'd be ok in a copyright suit. Not definitely, as I am not a lawyer, but I think we would be ok. There's another slant to this; the band is still active. Assuming they are touring, and they probably will with an upcoming 2007 release, getting a free license image is possible; a Misplaced Pages editor could attend a concert and get one. So, it's fair use...but replaceable. That puts it in a situation where it's presence on the band's page becomes less than rock solid for certain. Personally, I don't see the value in continuing to use the album cover on the band's page. Why not just replace the album cover with the band's logo? That's clearly...clearly allowable under fair use. Heck, I'll do it one better. Since there's no logo available, I'll get one and replace the album cover with it. Hold on. --Durin 21:52, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
  • There. Done. Image:TeslaBandLogo.gif at Tesla (band). --Durin 21:57, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Durin. That's very helpful. Hopefully, the dispute has will die down now. As you see, I've unblocked the user. AnnH ♫ 23:08, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Yep I saw. Probably a good move. The revert war was over, and with the insertion of the logo had near zero chance of re-erupting. I just hope both editors play nice elsewhere :) --Durin 23:10, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

User:Cool Cat/History

Yo, I want an update ;) I also would like a graph for my commons, tr.wiki, meta pages :)

Furthermore some sort of graph for User:Cool Cat/RfAs would be nice.

--Cat out 23:33, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

  • I don't do graphs for commons or any other wiki other then en.wikipedia. As for that, if I find some time...it's been a while since I've done one so it would take some time to learn how to process another one. --Durin 03:13, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

FU in article space

Fair use is allowed in article name space. Since the main page is part of the article namespace (it's not a template image etc), why have you declared war on the main page nominations? FU images still appear on the main page selected article. Sumoeagle179 04:07, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Because the use of fair use images on the main page, which is not in the main article namespace, is generally considered to be a mistake and is usually quickly undone. Further, the page on which I was removing the images is a Misplaced Pages space page, not a main article namespace page. If you have further questions, I'd be happy to answer. Thanks, --Durin 04:09, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
    • The main page is in the article namespace because its path is the same as an article .../Main Page vis a vis .../Name of article. Furthermore, your argument that FU images rarely appear with the selected article can't quickly be disproven by looking at the articles actually used for any month. The nom page is where the they nom's get listed, so the images need to appear there. Sumoeagle179 04:15, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry that you feel this way. Please observe the following pieces of evidence:

There's other pieces of evidence as well. I can assure you that fair use on the main page is kept to an absolute minimum, and it most definitely is not part of the main article namespace as it itself is not an article on a particular subject. --Durin 04:25, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

That just tells me you don't know what a namespace is, technically speaking, though you may yourself consider it a separate space for wiki purposes. Where does it say in an official wiki policy, not someone's mere opinion, that FU images should not be on the main page and that it's a separate namespace for wiki purposes? If you can't do that, this is merely another case of wikiadmins and cabalists forcing opinion on others.Sumoeagle179 04:38, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I've pointed out pieces of evidence to you. I'm sorry you disagree with them and wish to characterize them as cabalish behavior. From a strictly technical stand point, yes if you edit the main page it shows up in your edit contributions as a main namespace edit. But, Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria item #9 refers to article namespace. The main page is not an article. It does not cover a particular subject, person, event, etc. In reality, it is simply a portal to the rest of the encyclopedia. While fair use images do occasionally appear on the main page, they are to be kept to a minimum. Further, I did not remove fair use images from the main page. I removed fair use images from a Misplaced Pages space page. If such images are to be included there, they must at an absolutely minimum be linked to, rather than actually displayed. No argument can be made that Misplaced Pages:Today's featured article/requests is in the main article namespace. Thus, per requirements of Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria item #9, which is policy, the use of such fair use images on that page is not permitted. My removal of the images was, therefore, entirely proper. If you find fault with this, you might wish to bring it up at Misplaced Pages talk:Fair use and discuss options for having the policy changed. Thanks, --Durin 04:49, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh come on! Users like you are one reason so many people quit wiki.Sumoeagle179 12:40, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Re your thread with Raul654--in others words, stop being such a zealot all the time, use some common sense, and stop driving editors away from wiki. Sumoeagle179 23:23, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
  • So far you have said "declared war", that I am a "cabalist forcing opinion" on others, people like me are "one reason so many people quit wiki", and that I am a "zealot". Your opinions are noted, and I remind you of Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks. If you have an issue with fair use policy you may take it up, as I noted above, at Misplaced Pages talk:Fair use. What I am doing is perfectly in line with policy and has been repeatedly supported by multiple other admins and members of arbcom. Your issue is not with me. Your issue is with Misplaced Pages policy. Please use appropriate forums, such as the one I suggested twice now, to voice your displeasure with the policy. Voicing such displeasure with me will have no effect on policy nor will it affect my conducting this work. Please see User:Durin/Removal_of_fair_use_images#I.27ll_get_you_to_stop_by_hurling_insults_at_you.21. Thank you for your message. --Durin 01:24, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Band Templates?

Re: Fair use images as for use in templates. I think the removal of this image from the template is really petty ,Why can other band templates use images and I can't? I mean its not in my agenda to rock the boat here, but does anyone else really care about a very small picture on a template? that quite frankly is not seen by all that many people? -- The Equaliser 18:25, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria item #9 prohibits the use of fair use tagged images outside of the main article namespace. This includes templates. That other band templates have such violations is not a reason to permit more of them. If you'd like, as you find such violations you can remove them yourself. I'd be happy to guide you on what needs to be done and how to go about doing it. If you have any questions about this, I'd be happy to answer. --Durin 18:29, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
No Thanks, If I ever thought I would turn in to an image informant like yourself I would quickly find myself a life, before I started wearing a brown shirt. --

The Equaliser 22:55, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

  • What you consider a personal attack could be interpreted as freedom of speech but then you would only quote some wiki fair use horse shit to back up your stance. you are without a doubt The most antagonising user on wikipedia. and you have replied to several users by saying so called personal attacks serve no purpose well I disagree, it helps to relieve stress, maybe you should relieve yourself too, you never know you might view life in a whole new perspective! Peace Out man!-- The Equaliser 02:00, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
  • You compare me to a Nazi thug and say I shouldn't take it as a personal attack? Right. What was it that was so antogonizing to you that you felt it necessary to begin making comparisons to Nazi thugs? I remove fair use images you had put in place. Those images were in violation of Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria item #9. You vent all sorts of fury at me, but I'm not the one you should be angry with. If you don't like the policy, take it up at Misplaced Pages talk:Fair use. If you seriously think I'm the most antognizing user on Misplaced Pages, then by all means please start an Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment. If I am as you say it would be seriously detrimental to the project for me to be an administrator or even a part of the project at all. I'm always welcome to reasoned inputs on my edits, minus the personal insults. If you won't start an RfC on me, the person you describe as the worst person at Misplaced Pages, then what would motivate you to start one? Please, by all means start one. Please. --Durin 06:26, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Ooh Touch a nerve did we? Nazi Thug? whats that, a freudian slip? if you recall I compared you to an antagonising image informant you should not add words that were not said! I mean, i'm sure there must be a Wiki fair use of words on that --The Equaliser 12:55, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
  • No, didn't touch a nerve. A person launching personal attacks against someone whom they have never met, have had almost no interaction with, has no basis to have any way of saying something that would actually hurt that person. You could voice a thousand insults against me and it would have no effect on my conducting the fair use work that needs to be done here. I'm pointing out how your words are personal attacks. As to your words, you are the person who said "brown shirt". The most famous brown shirts in history were Nazi thugs. You should note however that launching a thousand insults against anyone here, much less several, will likely result in your being temporarily blocked from editing. All the best, --Durin 14:09, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

relish

    • Doesn't scare me. I'd be glad to get away from users such as you who make wiki a pain to use instead of fun. You must relish in all this hate and discontent you cause. You're the only user I know that has to write pages and pages trying to defend himself. Rlevse 02:17, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Don't care. Just go away and leave people who try to improve articles instead of pissing everyone off alone. Rlevse 02:23, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
    • The best way for you to stop driving people away is to use some common sense in how you approach this. And that was not an insult it's a fact. You're the only user I know that has caused other users to quit. I will not discuss this with you further. Rlevse 02:30, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
      • People come and go to the project. It disappoints me if people do not wish to adhere to Misplaced Pages policy. Nevertheless, we hold to our policies. If people wish to leave because they find the policies unacceptable, that is their prerogative. I can not stop them. If it bothers you that this policy exists, your venom is better expelled at the people who are actually in a position to change the policy. You've been directed where to go to do that. I hope you find satisfaction there. In fact, if fair use images were allowed everywhere on Misplaced Pages it would be, in some ways, better than the current status quo which is a difficult to manage scenario; violations are rampant and there's little support for keeping things in check with this policy. In my mind, preferable would be a considerably harder line against such violations or a far more liberal line. From all that I've read, Jimbo Wales would be more in support of a harder line. You're welcome to take your crack at changing the policy. If you need help to back up some of your points, look me up. I might be able to offer you some supporting statistics. All the best, --Durin 02:35, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

{{Template:Politics of North Korea}}

Hi, all of the "Politics of Nation" templates have national emblems displayed at the top, however why do you keep on reverting North Korea's, when it has the same license as South Korea's and many others, yet they were never changed/reverted to a geographical map denoting their territory? Also, I've read your subpage about the fairuse rationale, however those aren't fairuse tags but coatofarms tags, and was their a vote by the community that national emblems with the coatofarms tags cannot be used in templates or any other namespaces excepting the main namespace? Or it was your own interpretation? You can reply here or on my IP page. Thanks much! --70.21.6.126 07:12, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

All kidding aside

Thank you very much for your review beforehand, and especially your confidence and support during my RFA. I wasn't going to send thank-you cards, but the emotional impact of hitting WP:100 (and doing so unanimously!) changed my mind. Please let me know if I can do anything for you in the future, although I doubt it for some time... I may be coming to you to learn at the foot of the master with respect to coat-of-arms copyright, something that baffles me at present. Cheers! -- nae'blis 22:28, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

P.S. Where's my decoder ring? -- nae'blis 22:28, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Dear Durin

I'm directed to you regarding the use of certain images, namely those in the following two cites: Ludvikus 22:39, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Andy Warhol

Ludvikus 22:39, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Marshall McLuhan

Ludvikus 22:39, 29 November 2006 (UTC) If the images are ok there, why are they not ok on my UserPage?

Best Regards, Ludvikus 22:39, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

For Your Convenience

Please limit the images on your user page to free or GFDL images.

Please limit the images on your user page to free or GFDL images. Using copyrighted or fair use images can get Misplaced Pages in a lot of legal trouble. -Will Pittenger 21:16, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I WOULD aapreciate it if you inform me first before you assume anything and proceed to alter my user page!
Ludvikus 22:28, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the copyright tags are the clue. Please check them first. If you have questions about an image, ask User:Durin. And, yes, he did remove fair use images from my page. So don't complain. -Will Pittenger 22:32, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

  • The difference between uses there is that use of fair use images on main namespace articles is accepted. Andy Warhol and Marshall McLuhan are two such pages. Any actual article is allowed to have fair use tagged images on it. Userpages, templates, portals, wikipedia space pages...are not. Will Pittenger is correct. You should allow him to remove those images or remove them yourself if you prefer. Either way, they need to be removed from your userpage. If you have any questions about this, I'd be happy to answer. All the best, --Durin 02:21, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
    • GotchYa! Your explanation is very clear - which is not the case with the Wiukipedia legal mumbo-jumbo.
      • I assumed - using my method of TRIAL AND ERROR method of learning WP - that if an image was in Misplaced Pages ANYWHERE - I could use it! What a DISAPPONITMENT!!!
    • Now tell me this - if I get an artish to draw for me an image of Andy sleeping in that same reclining position - can I then put it up on my WP User page?
  • Thanks for your DILIGENCE on behalf of WIKIPEDIA!
Yours truly, Ludvikus 19:59, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing this up. Now if you could teach him to go easy on the ----… Will (Talk - contribs) 03:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

THE PATRIOTIC PUBLISHING CO. & "The Protocols of Zion"

Image:1934 Protocols Patriotic Pub.jpg "The Protocols" — the original 1934 300-page THE PATRIOTIC PUBLISHING CO. edition

Dear WP Adminstrator Durin: The image herein I have re-created: me, myself, & I.

It is the the front book cover of that infamout 1934 300-page imprint of the Protocols of Zion by an uncorporated entity named above which operated out of a Post Office Box in Chicago, Michigan, and, to the best of my knowledge, there was no copyright asserted on it.
So why did you delete THAT image as well??
Yours truly, Ludvikus 21:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
PS: Can I appeal your decision on this 1934 image deletion?
Sincere best withes to you, Ludvikus 21:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)


You can appeal the decision by posting to WP:AN. There's not much to appeal though. The image is of a bookcover, and due to it not being old enough, it is still under copyright...even if copyright wasn't claimed. We do not operate on the basis of whether someone claimed copyright, but on the basis of whether someone explicitly released their rights to the work. Thus, even if something doesn't appear to have a copyright, we assume it does unless we have proof otherwise. The image is appropriately tagged with {{bookcover}} which is a fair use tag thus preventing its use outside of the main article namespace. Hope that helps, --Durin 21:14, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Anthonyn66

Sorry about my logos and pages. I never knew that about those rules. Maybe I should read the rule page. user:anthonyn66

new user box you may like

FYI: You might be interested in this user box: User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/User Removes Fair Use Images From User Pages. -Will Pittenger 06:16, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Is there a page that I can have the box link to that would explain this policy in layman's terms? Something in your userspace would qualify for my purposes. Will (Talk - contribs) 06:39, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Veracious Rey

Sorry about the revert. I didn't notice you took the images out of my userboxes (I didn't look, because I was unaware of a problem). The image of governer Fletcher is in an article, so I'm confused why you removed the image a second time.

I accept your offer of help. First, where can I find free images of sports logos, and foxnews logos? In general, where do you find these if you cannot take them from articles. I've searched the Wikicommons, but haven't found anything. Veracious Rey 16:26, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

  • When I tagged the image as orphaned fair use, it was truly orphaned; it wasn't in an article. When I checked back, it was. I removed the notice. No worries about the userboxes; we all learn sometime.
  • In short, finding sports logos and foxnews logos isn't going to happen. Logos of such organizations are protected; it's a marketable resource for them. Any free license version probably isn't going to represent the team the way you would want. What people tend to do with such userboxes is to put, for example, "FN" in place of the missing logo, and use colors frequently associated with the organization. --Durin 16:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

PSdubow imiages

The imiages that were used are fair use beacuse they were being used on Engilish Misplaced Pages for the use of describing orginazations or people. Cocoaguy (Talk) 16:32, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Stop bothering my friend and I!!!!!!!!!

Mr. Durin

My friend Cocoaguy was doing me a favor by helping me create my user page, because I am not as computer savy as other users may be. He told me how you were bothering him and also hindering him about some pictures he was using or something like that, while he was trying to help me. Both him and I are in agreement that the pictures we are using do not violate any copyright rules or some sort of a wikipedia code of ethics. Now you listen to me, he and I will continue to put pictures on my user page until you or another wikipedia representative proves to us by showing us files, a private policy, a copyright rule, or something like that, stating that what we are doing to against the rules.

Sincerely,

Psdubow

  • Please see the prior section above this one. The use of fair use tagged images on userpages is not permitted per Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria item #9. The images your friend placed on the page that I removed are tagged with fair use tags. Thus, they may not exist on your userpage. Sorry if this bothers you or your friend; no intention to do so. Just working to have pages adhere to our policies. Thanks, --Durin 00:47, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


Mr. Durin,

My friend and I read Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria and we are trying to understand it to the best of our ability. If you can, I, myself am having trouble understanding the Fair Use Criteria, because I don't understand all this computer mumbo-jumbo. Also, you said "Just working to have pages adhere to our policies". Well you know what, just because it is an official document does not make it right. What if your policies are wrong. Ever think of that??? Maybe you can ask other Misplaced Pages moderators and workers to amend the current policy and maybe even to draft a new one.

Sincerely,

P.S. Please respond to this to this message on my talk-page as soon as possible.

  • In general, if you find the term "fair use" on the image's description page, chances are very high that the image must be used here under terms of fair use. Visually, if you see a great big C on the image's description page, like that found at {{logo}}, it is an image that must be used under terms of fair use. If you have questions about a particular image, I'd be happy to answer.
  • As to your second point; the policy has been appealed by a broad number of people and dozens of exceptions have been requested. All have been denied. The reason is this isn't just policy. It's a matter of law. Misplaced Pages takes this law seriously because we do not want to be the victims of a copyright infringement lawsuit.
  • Please understand; adding a copyrighted image to your userpage contributes nothing to the goals of the project. We are here to create an encyclopedia. Potentially violating fair use and copyright law on a userpage provides no benefit to the project while exposing us to risk. You are welcome to place free licenses images on your userpage all you want. The more the merrier if it makes you happy. But, non-free licenses images are off limits.
  • I hope this helps to better explain the situation. If not, I'd be happy to answer any additional questions you may have. --Durin 02:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)


Fine!

Psdubow

Agree with PSDubow

Psdubow I agree i do not think that the policy is fair and i do not feel that it is right may i ask to bring this issue up to the WP:AMA and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Wikipedians against censorship Cocoaguy (Talk) 02:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Might I request a boon of thee?

Hail and well met, friend Durin. I hope this missive find you well. May I request a favor? I am, as you may be aware, a candidate for the Arbitration Committee. I fear that, due to my history, my questions page and (in the future) voting page may tend to be magnets for incivility and other misconduct. I have, in the past year, come to respect you for your ability to maintain coolness in situations where others might fail to do so (as you may have noted when I commented on your self-RfC some months back). Would you be willing to let bygones be bygones and do me the signal favor of patrolling those pages for uncivil conduct, dealing with any such instances which you might find appropriately? I would be most appreciative.

Thank you for your consideration.

Kelly Martin (talk) 22:49, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Template:Equipment of the Turkish Navy

I do not understand why you removed the official seal of the navy from the template. I read the fair use policy related with the templates but i need your advice. I want to put the seal there but how? Regards E104421 19:57, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

  • You can't, at least not on the template. The seal is marked as a fair use image here on Misplaced Pages. As such, by Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria item #9, it may not exist on the template. It is possible to create code such that it would only display if use on a main namespace article, but to have a fair use image on the seal constitutes a decorative use of a fair use image in most cases (and does in this usage as well) and thus violates Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria item #8. I'm sorry. If you have any other questions about this, I'd be happy to answer. Thanks, --Durin 20:00, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Nellie Connally

Okay, thats fair enough about the Opalinida article but I need help with something totally different with the Nellie Connally article. It says that when her husband got shot she quickly tried to protect her husband which was with stark contrast to Jackie who seemed to try and jump out of the car. That info is false. Nellie did try and protect her husband but Jackie never tried to jump out of the car, she just went to grab JFK's brain that got blasted to the front of the car. So considering that info was false I deleted it and then stated in the disscussion box why I deleted it. But every time I delete it, in about an hour it comes back up. I even have this guy saying it was vandalism. What can I do?

Re: Fair Use Image Use

Sure, please tell me more. I don't agree with your logic from the link on your edit summary, but I try to avoid most of the rules of this place outside of afd/rfa(i'm thinking of trying for adminship in a month), so i'll leave that to you. I'll just edit somewhere else. Just H 22:36, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Misplaced Pages has established a narrow definition of allowable fair use. This descends from our mission here; to create a 💕. The use of fair use should be kept to an absolute minimum. If we are to use fair use, it must contribute directly to the value of the encyclopedia. Adding copyrighted images to templates for decorative purposes does not adhere to that. Thus, Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria prevents this. --Durin 22:50, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Like I said, I don't agree -- particularly in how it seems to have been established from my understanding of most of the processes here, but like I said above, i'll leave that to you. Just H 23:20, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Your edit was haphazard, you did not see the references, you are abusing your admin powers.

Durin - You gonna lose your admin right if you willingly abuse them. You clearly did NOT look into the sources provided before removing my edit. Do you really want to make me have to log in and report you? Now please remove your edit, as I have shown that credible evidence towards alternative theories DOES exist, and I quote the BBC article "Two hijacked passenger airliners plunge into the twin towers of the World Trade Center, the subsequent explosions and fires causing the buildings to collapse." Durin wrote, mistakenly "The BBC article you are referring to refers to the explosions of the planes on impact on the WTC, not subsequent explosions that brought the building down."

Admins like you give wikipedia and free speech a bad name, not to mention Neutrality. One more slip, and... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.27.5.114 (talk) 17:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

  • Yes, I'd prefer if you reported me. Since you seem to think I've made a large number of errors, it would be best to air them out and rectify them. And yes, I did look at the cites. That's how I knew the article was posted by BBC on the same day. How else could I know that information? Also, please see Misplaced Pages:Free speech. You do not have the right to free speech here. Sorry. --Durin 17:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

This is the bit he removed: "While many disregard the controlled demolition hypothesis as complete nonsense, many mainstream news agencies such as BBC news wrote reports about "explosions" in the towers before their collapse, (ref)BBC News, US Rocked By Terror Attacks: "The explosions caused the twin towers to collapse", Tuesday, 11 September, 2001, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1537469.stm(/ref), and journalists reported "other explosions", cause of which still seems to be unresolved, despite inquiries.(ref)BBC's Stephen Evans Interviewed, Tue 11 September 2001, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFf56Df-F2M(/ref)." Please report this admin (Durin) for abuse, if you see the removal as unfair abuse.

Durin said: "The reality is, as I believe has already been discussed on this talk page, that any theory involving the U.S. as a major participant in causing the attacks on 9/11 is by its very definition a conspiracy." I was not saying anything about any involvement, only that there were some unexplained explosions happening there. Durin said: "As to free speech, it's not a matter of free speech." I agree - free speech must be earned, like I will demonstrate to you trough use of logic and perseverance. Durin said: "I firmly believe in scientific theory, and support additions to articles that are based on verifiability and reliable sources." And you dont regard BBC journalists writings and on-site interviews as verifiable or reliable sources? Who do you think you are kidding here. You crossed the line right there, IMHO, and now you post that comment? Interesting interpretation of scientific principles, Durin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.27.5.114 (talk • contribs) 17:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

  • I fail to see how requesting an article be verifiable and based on reliable sources counts as "crossing the line". Would you please elaborate? A BBC article the same day as the attacks is not a reliable source for making a claim of explosions taking down the WTC. No investigation has been made. At Misplaced Pages, we target secondary sources for information, not primary. Since there was as yet no investigation, the BBC is in effect a primary source in this case; and since they have no qualifications in building demolitions, they are a very weak primary source for this point of information as well. I stand by my statements. --Durin 17:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Very well. But can your logic withstand the fact that people have heard explosions in the buildings not directly caused by the airplanes crashing into the buildings OR the collapse of the buildings. What does your logic need, a written statement from the president? We have two pieces of "primary" evidence here that you deem unreliable. Your logic is what I would call "the devils logic". I am considering reporting you.--EndurinFreedom 17:54, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I was hoping we could discuss this in a civilized manner. What do you have to say about these two points:

The point was not that your requesting verifiability or reliability of sources was somehow faulty, but the fact that once the evidence is presented, you disregard it, in record time.

You edited the article so fast it was not possible for you to review the references.--EndurinFreedom 17:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

In fact, now that I review the situation, you are advocating a BIASed view of the situation, where reference from Albuquerque Journal outweigh those of BBC Uk. You are d'mn right free speech doesnt apply here!! --EndurinFreedom 18:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Civilized discussion possibilities were undermined from the beginning of your posts to the talk page of the article in question where you stated "Admins like you give wikipedia and free speech a bad name, not to mention Neutrality. One more slip, and...". It was further undermined with your first posting to my talk page where you started right off with saying "Durin - You gonna lose your admin right if you willingly abuse them". I have nothing further to discuss with you. I'd prefer if you reported me. Again, if you'd like help making such a report I'd be happy to lend a hand. Thank you, --Durin 18:06, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


  • Are you not even remotely willing to review my key points? Just for your amusement to show everyone what a loser I am for posting this on your discussion page? I promise I wont report you if you do.

(1) Evidence towards unexplained explosions exist, in form that is verifiable and through sources that are generally though to be reliable (BBC News website and interview footage). (2) Can you (or anyone else) invalidate this evidence, or provide clear explanation as to what these explosions were? (3) If not, can you show that it is NOT even remotely possible that these explosions were related to explosives of some kind? (4) If not, can you, therefore, by use of ARGUMENTATION, EVIDENCE OR LOGIC dismiss the proposition, that it is possible controlled demolitions of some kind by some known or unknown agent MAY have taken place (hypothesis)? --EndurinFreedom 18:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

  • As noted, I have nothing further to discuss with you. If you feel I have abused my privileges as an editor and/or admin, then please report me. Good day. --Durin 18:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Very well. You removed my edit without reviewing both pieced of evidence (not enough time to view the interview), claimed that I was proposing that controlled demolitions did take place when I was trying to point out that according to verifiable and reliable sources some unexplained explosions did take place, and finally disregarded my pleas for civilized discussion. I hope you have a better one tomorrow. --EndurinFreedom 18:43, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
  • I disagree with your summary of events. Nevertheless, I have no desire to discuss it when you have been from the get go assaulting me at most opportunities. Stating for perhaps the 6th or 7th time, if you have serious grievances with me, then by all means please report me. Failing that, I have no desire to discuss my actions with you and I have nothing further to discuss with you on that point. Good day. --Durin 18:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Apologies for any personal hurt my comments may have caused you... (Or your family), not my aim at all. But we aint through this subject matter of evidence, explosions & demolitions yet. Gnite --EndurinFreedom 19:11, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Carpenters Picture On My Userpage

Hi Durin,

I'd like it if you didn't keep deleting the photo I uploaded on my userpage. Could you tell me why you did this? It's getting frustrating.

Cuyler91093 21:53, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't quite understand. Why are they non-free license images? Cuyler91093 00:26, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

By the way, Durin, I don't want to be mean. I'm just trying to understand these copyright issues... :( --Cuyler91093 00:26, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

  • No worries. Not understanding is fine. I'm happy to help. The images that you've been attempting to use on your userpage are marked with a non-free license. There's a lot of these. Have a look at Category:Non-free image copyright tags. These tags are used for images which are copyrighted and not free. For example, the logo of the Coca-Cola corporation is copyrighted. Nobody can use it in whatever way they choose, except under terms of fair use. The same principle applies to screen shots of movies and to album covers. At Misplaced Pages, we assume things are copyrighted unless we have positive, verifiable proof that a given thing is available under a free license. Some of the images that you have uploaded have been marked with a free license without any positive, verifiable proof that this is the case. For example, the screenshots you uploaded of the Carpenters were marked improperly. These are in fact copyrighted, and as such may not exist on your userpage by Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria item #9. I hope I've helped make this clearer. If I haven't feel free to ask more questions! --Durin 14:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I think I get it... so, the pictures belong to the Carpenters because it's from a DVD, and actually originally from a television series, so I can't use it on my userpage because it's not mine. Am I paraphrasing correctly? By the way, thanks for taking the time to explain these things... I'm kinda new to editing pages on Misplaced Pages. ;) --Cuyler91093 01:23, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Anarchy Orphin Image

I made the picture, and it is also a logo. Since I made it I could change the liscence and then it would be allowed to stay on, right? And I will put it on a page, so it doesn't stay orphined. User:Coocooforcocopuffs 00:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Userbox Edit

How do I create a userbox? I'm kinda new to this stuff, so help me if you can! Thanks! --Cuyler91093 00:34, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh shucks... I'm not familiar with all that technical stuff. Do you know a human source for help with Userboxes? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cuyler91093 (talk • contribs) 01:24, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

  • No, I'm sorry, I don't. I don't use or make userboxes, and so have had virtually no contact with any information or people on how to make them. If I might suggest, your time spent on the userboxes could be spent working on articles instead. Few people really look at userboxes. --Durin 01:33, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Polarizing comments

Dear Durin, if you think every "polarizing" or "subjective" comment should be removed, there will be very little left on talk pages. In fact, such actions tend to be much more polarizing than the comments themselves. I believe that most wikipedians have already read the page in question, so there is little use in starting to edit it now, when most people seem to have voted and days after the comment was made. --Ghirla 18:20, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

  • See your talk page. I don't think whether an uncivil comment has been read and has had its effect has little bearing on whether it is acceptable or not. I've not found anything in Misplaced Pages:Civility that suggests that an uncivil comment should be left if it's been in existence for a few days. Perhaps you can point out that particular section of the policy or some other policy/guideline that suggests that? --Durin 18:25, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry

Sorry about Portal:Houston/Selected biography/December 2006. I know better. I must have had an insanity attack. Postoak 00:27, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Misunderstanding?

Your edit summary says you're responding to me, but the sentence that turned you off is DerwinUMD's. Not that I don't also find that sort of thing irritating. I've fixed the formatting to set my commments off a bit more clearly. Best,--Thomas Basboll 15:20, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Just a question about the extent of the fair use policy on user pages

I don't really care that the little duke programming logo is removed from my user page as I did that a while ago more as an experiment with markup than anything else. However, I was wondering if it really is an inappropriate fair use of a graphic to use a 10-pixel high version of the graphic. It hardly resembles the original graphic in that form. I suppose another way to ask this is if I created my own rendition of the Duke logo as a 10-pixel high graphic, would that be a violation of fair use, even on my user page? (Don't worry, this is a purely hypothetical question as I really don't care that it's gone.) It just seems that at some point of reduction that the image is of such a low resolution that it can't be considered to infringe on the copyright. —Doug Bell  20:04, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Happy Feet Protect?

http://en.wikipedia.org/Happy_Feet

Has been vandalized by IPs for a good solid month or so now, and had subjective material added, and then removed, I was told to contact an Admin, I'm not familiar enough with Misplaced Pages to know what to do about this. However I think Protection would be good until the popularity of the movie dies down, yes? I didn't know how else to ask, sorry if it doesn't belong here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Revrant (talk • contribs) 18:52, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

For what its worth

For what its worth, internet where I am is apparently not going away at the end of the year. If you actually did want to pursue any RfCs, I would be able to comment. Not that you would do that by any means, I am just retracting my further statement that I would be unavailable for such things since that is no longer the case and it is only fair to state that. Cool? Cool. (But not Coolcat...) -Husnock 13:37, 11 December 2006 (UTC)