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view · edit Frequently asked questions Many of these questions arise on frequently on the talk page concerning Creationism. To view an explanation to the answer, click the link to the right of the question. Q1: Should the article characterize creationism as a religious belief? (Yes.) A1: Yes. Creationism is a religious belief; it is not a theory. Q2: Should the article use the term myth? (Yes.) A2: Yes. Myth as used in the context of the article means "a sacred narrative explaining how the world and mankind came to be in their present form." This terminology is extensively used in religion and comparative religion fields of study at the academic and scholarly levels, as well as in many of the reliable sources cited in the article. With this in mind, usage of the term is explicitly supported by WP:RNPOV and WP:WTA. FAQ notes and references:

	Creationism was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones Date Process Result January 22, 2006 Good article nominee Listed September 29, 2006 Good article reassessment Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article

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Topical archives /Is Creationism a theory /Selection as a creative force /What is wrong with the lead section /Ranting

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Scientific methods and Mythology

With the following sentence; "Creationism, in its broadest sense, includes a spectrum or continuum of religious views, some of which accept the reality of biological evolution; evolutionary creationism and varieties of theistic evolution reconcile their faith with modern science and hold that God purposefully created through the laws of nature."

The word reconcile does not fit here, because reconcile means "make (one account) consistent with another, especially by allowing for transactions begun but not yet completed."

The "purposeful creations of laws of nature" cannot be reconciled with the scientific method of experimentation and observation.

I would suggest changing it to this Creationism, in its broadest sense, includes a spectrum or continuum of religious views, disillusioned some of which accept the reality of biological evolution; evolutionary creationism and varieties of theistic evolution attempt to unsuccessfully reconcile their faith with modern science and hold that God purposefully created through the laws of nature.--Eng. M.Bandara-Talk 07:41, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Putting the word disillusioned in there doesn't even make grammatical sense, and there's no particular reason to believe that everyone who tries to reconcile their faith with science is unsuccessful. The idea that they "cannot" be reconciled is your opinion. PepperBeast (talk) 08:23, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

pepperbeast It's not my opinion the Scientific method is well established and defined, stating that laws of nature come about by supernatural processes is not consistent with the scientific processes. And supported by multiple WP:RS such as --Eng. M.Bandara-Talk 08:34, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

I agree that "disillusioned" makes no sense and isn't sourced, but the sentence as it stands is clearly wrong/ungrammatical. "Views" cannot "reconcile their faith", only people have faith. @Dave souza: could you help fix this please? Thanks. Doug Weller talk 13:10, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks everyone, good call that "views" can't reconcile faith. Have reworded it:

Creationism, in its broadest sense, includes a spectrum or continuum of religious views. Some types accept the reality of biological evolution; evolutionary creationism and varieties of theistic evolution reconcile religious faith with modern science, and hold that God purposefully created through the laws of nature.

Feel that's clearer. As for the reconciliation, the question of where laws of nature come from is beyond science. These types of creationism combine their religious belief in divine creation with acceptance of all the findings of science – to quote Scott,

"Theistic evolution is a theological view in which God creates through the laws of nature. Theistic evolutionists (TEs) accept all the results of modern science, in anthropology and biology as well as in astronomy, physics, and geology. . . . .However, TEs vary in whether and how much God is allowed to intervene — some believe that God created the laws of nature and allows events to occur with no further intervention. Other TEs believe that God intervenes at critical intervals during the history of life (especially in the origin of humans)."

These theological views exist, whether they're successful or not isn't an issue for this concise lead statement. . . dave souza, talk 16:04, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Dave souzaThe issue with it is that it makes it appear as if even if you adopt least intervening TE's to say that "God created the laws of nature" it gives the illusion that there is a possibility that this position can be successfully reconciled with modern science and accepted. When reality is this in itself does not at all reconcile with modern science. For a reader that's unfamiliar with the topic, it should be made clear, that although there has been an attempt at reconciling their beliefs with modern science, it is impossible to be reconciled without the even passing the first step of the scientific method that is a testable hypothesis.--Eng. M.Bandara-Talk 21:55, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Source? . . . . . dave souza, talk 04:20, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Even while I agree that accommodationist theism does not present falsifiable hypotheses for a scientist to consider, people who believe that theism and scientific results can be reconciled do not generally claim that this reconciliation is supposed to happen using the scientific method. jps (talk) 13:53, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

For examples, Clergy Letter Project. . . dave souza, talk 19:53, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

References

1. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/sep/24/big-issue-no-mystery-science-and-religion-cannot-be-reconciled

Nomination of Portal:Creationism for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Creationism is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Creationism (2nd nomination) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 23:30, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Biased Statement

In the following line in the article: "are compatible with a Christian fundamentalist literal interpretation of the creation myths found in the Bible's Genesis" the phrase "creation myth", by definition implies that creationism is a false idea. This is a biased statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DavidDarden (talk • contribs) 19:22, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Hello David. I recommend reading Talk:Genesis creation narrative/FAQ. WP:FIXBIAS may also be useful on how to approach perceived bias in relation to improving the encyclopedia. —PaleoNeonate – 19:55, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 December 2019

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Under “Types” correct spelling to “between the” 41.13.4.180 (talk) 08:22, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Fixed. Thanks for the heads up. HiLo48 (talk) 08:51, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 January 2020

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Please remove reference to all instances of evolution being "scientific". Evolution is just as much an unprovable religious belief system (called atheism) as any creation hypothesis. Stating evolution as "scientific" is misleading at best and simply lying at worst. Let's keep Misplaced Pages a safe and informative platform and not one for spouting off religious dogma. Thank you. William.The.Honest (talk) 21:16, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

 Not done Plainly nonsense. Theroadislong (talk) 23:07, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Requesting to expunge all instances of evolution being called "scientific" because one can not be bothered to differentiate atheism from evolution and religion is to have the article rewritten as antiscience propaganda, and runs afoul of WP:FRINGE, WP:NPOV, WP:SOAPBOX and WP:NOTAFORUM.--Mr Fink (talk) 23:14, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Replying to Theroadislong: Evolution is a theory without proof, based on homology and measurement of simple anatomical characteristics. It has gained popularity from the perspective of comparison of anatomical remains and comparing skull sizes and shapes. It relies on skull volume indicating intelligence, however, this is a misogynistic proposition, stating women are intellectually inferior, even less evolved in comparison to men. It cannot account for how any human being was or is in capacity, for instance, the intelligence of a computer in the 1950's was far less to a smart phone. Yet the former has a larger amount of wires from the perspective of its volume. The neuronal connections are unknown, the brain, memory and intelligence are far from understood. It would be best to call evolution an atheistic hypothesis. It is not far from non-sense, it states we originate from and are ourselves Great Apes.

Darwinist survival and carbon dating

If carbon dating were correct, then modern human would have walked the Earth for around 100 000 years. However, if every couple on average had 4 children then for every person there would be two descendants. If this was drawn as a graph, then 2 to the ~33rd power is equal to 7 billion. This means there would be a total of 33 generations of human beings. If we say for instance only half the families survived, halving the total to 3.5 billion. Then only one generation later it would total 7 billion, if every couple had 4 children, with 2 children allocated per person (3.5 x 2 = 7 billion). The same goes for 1.75 billion, making 34 generations (1.75 x 2 x 2 = 7 billion). If there was just over one child per person on average, so with couples having just over 2 children on average, then this would amount to 237 generations to reach 7 billion. The event of 4 or 5 children is more realistic, due to this being the case in tribal, agrarian and hunter-gatherer cultures. This can be seen as a binary tree. Many tribes would have to have died, in the smallest case where every couple had just over 2 children, there could be 10 to the 59th power of people who died. The other case is that for over a total of 700 non-consecutive generations there was just below 2 children per couple.

For the last case the calculations were from dividing 100 000 with 50, giving 1428 generations. If for every couple there were just above 2 children, then we would reach 7 billion in 237 generations. Then it would take 237 generations just below 2 children per couple to get back to one person on the planet. So there would have to have been the combination of a nearly half the people having just 2 children and many tribes perishing to take 100 000 years to reach 7 billion. However, a tribe may not survive with just 2 children per partners. So many tribes would have to have not survived, however, there is not much archaeological evidence of this. There is also the premise that in no case there were 34 generations of 4 children per couple, without having the opposite tree of 1 child per 2 couples for 34 generations.

There is also the fact that the African continent is from coast to coast at about 10 000 kilometers, e.g. from Cape Town in South-Africa to Alexandria in Egypt. Walking 8 hours per day at 5 kilometres per hour, this distance could be covered in 36 weeks. Therefore, it is not realistic to say the migration took millennia, due to food insecurity with a nomadic culture that does not migrate constantly to find new sources of food. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1811:2C21:F400:1D3F:5642:7E4A:2A25 (talk) 12:34, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

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