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Reference Desk

January 6

welfare in Canada

Hi. When I graduate, I plan to move to Canada and go on welfare. Is anyone here familiar with Canadian welfare and can tell me what are the procedures and requirements for being on welfare in Canada? Thanks! --131.215.159.11 03:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

• ooooh ur in for a rough ride buddy. better make plans B through Z. dont listen to the stereotypical crap from americans. if your able to work, u wont be on welfare for long. if your not able to work, you can barely, barely live off it.

• I'm sure the Canadians will greet you with open arms, or possibly with arms drawn. StuRat 05:09, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

• As with welfare everywhere, it's not like it used to be. You can't make a career of it. --Zeizmic 14:43, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

• Except in the Netherlands, apparently. One of our contributors, User:DirkvdM, has made a career out of it. StuRat 14:55, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, whenever he hasn't shown up for a while, I'm always afraid he's mixed his last drug cocktail... :) --Zeizmic 21:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Welfare is a provincial responsibility, so it varies across the country, and can change frequently depending on which party is in power. You should be able to find welfare regulations on provincial government websites. Most money spent on welfare goes into salaries of people whose job is to find ways to kick people off welfare, so expect to spend the equivilent hours of a full-time job fighting welfare workers, going through training programs, and the like. The money is generally terrible, usually not enough to live on, so many people wind up selling drugs or prostituting themselves to be able to afford rent and food. Hopefully you're graduating from law school. Sadly, "Soviet Canuckistan" is an outdated term. Bobanny 04:03, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

• According to the article on chavs, it is also (barely) possible to make a career out of welfare in parts of the UK. V-Man737 04:03, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

What was the point of going to the effort of graduating, to then go on welfare? JackofOz 23:27, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

So you can make the best possible contributions to Misplaced Pages without the annoyance of interrupting your editing duties for work, of course ! StuRat 04:32, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Another point: it's very difficult to get into Canada if you are disabled (and therefore actually able to qualify for some kind of welfare program without too much hassle). --Charlene 21:29, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I guess the wheelchair bound will just have to take it one step at a time. StuRat 02:57, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

That kind of attitude is a crutch. The real issue isn't about some lame freeloader making blind claims - that'll fall on deaf ears. But if you think it's worth a try, break a leg, my friend. V-Man737 05:12, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

New Revolving Restaurant

I got information that a new building under construction in centreville VA is going to have a revolving restaurant, which is important because there is only one other revolving restaurant in VA, and its in arlington. I wanted to know if there is a company in the area that creates revolving restaurants, or the name of the restaurant.--Technofreak90 04:39, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

The restaurant in Arlington is the Skydome Lounge (300 Army Navy Dr, Double Tree Pentagon City, Arlington, VA 22202). Unfortunately I haven't found any information about one under construction in Centreville. --Zeborah 05:41, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Who is this painter?

Hello,

Who is the artist who depicted the image of Cupid found at this website?

http://www.narisa.com/usr/cupid/

Thanks,

Bridgette Williams Okinawa, Japan

Not sure, but I'd guess he was a Shirley Temple fan. StuRat 14:53, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

For all your nauseatingly cute artwork needs Bessie Pease Gutmann is your woman http://www.bessiepease.com/catalog/Ca/ meltBanana 16:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks meltBanana! And StuRat, I'm fairly certain this painting predates Shirley Temple's fame.

Do you have a date on "Caught Napping" ? The artist Bessie Pease Gutmann lived 1876-1960, so it's quite possible it was made after Shirley Temple's fame began in the early to mid 1930s. StuRat 04:16, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

anarchy wikipedia

Isn't there an anarchy wikipedia somewhere? Where everyone has sysop powers? Where is it? Paul Silverman 12:54, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

It might have existed, but not for very long... See Anarchy --Zeizmic 13:27, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

yeah clever answer but no I remember it was around. I cannot remember what it was called. Paul Silverman 14:53, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

You may be thinking of the Unencyclopedia, but this is not nearly as anarchic as it looks. Zeimic is correct in saying truly anarchic wikis don't last very long; genuine users soon get fed up with all the trolls, who all end up bitching at each other.--Shantavira

No not uncyclopedia. The admins on there are even worse than the ones on here with regard to blocking you without apparent reason. That's not very anarchic, that's authoratative. Paul Silverman 15:22, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Agree. Failing anyone else coming up with an answer, try list of wikis or this index.--Shantavira 16:05, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I've seen a Swedish language Wiki experiment without any real administation of the input. I wasn't too impressed, though, since most of the material tended to be just a mess of pubertal bullshit... 惑乱 分からん 17:24, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Maybe the questioner is asking for Anarchopedia. --Taraborn 21:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

PRICES IN 1937

CAN I GET A LIST OF THE MAJOR PRICES/COSTS IN 1937 -

• FOR EXAMPLES - THE COST OF THE AVERAGE HOME
• THE COST OF A GALLON OF GAS
• THE COST OF A LOAF OF BREAD
• THE COST OF A GALLON OF MILK

64.61.41.82 13:02, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean the costs in the US? | AndonicO 13:34, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

(http://www.measuringworth.com/calculators/compare/) provides a calculator to compare the relative value of a US Dollar from 1790 up to 2005 (it allows for different costs). This site (http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost) will show you the consumer-price-index for a basket of goods from various years in history (seems to only go back to 1980 though). Your best bet is to search around google for historic Consumer-prince-index costs. ny156uk 13:56, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

• I'm assuming, from your IP address, that you're in the United States. Here's gasoline: . $0.20 per gallon in 1937 dollars, equivalent to $2.71 in 2005 dollars. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:30, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

• This page () gives Depression-era prices for bread ($0.09 – nine cents – per loaf) and milk ($0.14 per quart, which is $0.56 per gallon), but doesn't specify its source. There are a number of books listed at the end of the article, however. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

light pollution project

I'm doing a science fair project on light pollution. I don't have time too much time to leave my house, so I will be doing it at home. How should I do a project based on the information on the internet? I feel as though the 'earth at night' maps are too unusable and somewhat unreliable. Can anyone help? Thanks.

Light pollution looks like a decent article and it has quite a lot of external links. Skarioffszky 17:40, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Great, but what should I do?

Dunno, I never did a science fair project. Maybe reading it will give you inspiration? Skarioffszky 18:07, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Maybe look at a comparison between streetlights of the old design and the newer full-cutoff lights; that should be nice and visual. Check out the International Dark-Sky Association's website for a starting point. Tony Fox (arf!) 23:48, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't see you getting very good marks for a science fair project which you don't plan to spend much time on, especially if you aren't willing to leave your house. Repeating info from websites might be a good part of a project, but some original research is needed if you expect to get a good grade. I suggest you get a light meter and go around town and measure the light level at various places at night, then make a color-coded chart using this info. You can also snap some pics of obvious sources of light pollution in your area, like parking lots. StuRat 03:22, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

<pun>Find a device that monitors Light Current and publish your results.</pun> V-Man737 04:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Cat- Back Exhaust

Is it possible to put a cat- back exhaust pipe in any car?

If the vehicle in question is already equipped with a Catalytic converter you can. Simply find the right cat-back for your application. If you plan on installing an aftermarket cat-back, make sure you check your local laws. Where I live police officers will pull you over and ticket you for having a overly noisy exhaust system.Zoobeerhall 06:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

January 7

Australian Gov. Image Copyright

I recently discovered a prominent Australian botanist does not have an article about him doing a quick internet search I located an image I would like to use. The is here, it noted this condition regarding the image Use of images for non-commercial web sites is allowed on condition that credit is given to the Australian National Botanic Gardens and these words are hotlinked to our home page. The copyright and public access page is . I would like to know if these conditions would allow publication in a Wiki article as I am a little uncertain even after reading the wiki guidelines on Image uploads, or will I need to email the copyright holders? Many thanks --Matt 00:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages does not accept images with non-commercial licenses. But since the fellow is long since dead the picture could possibly be used under Misplaced Pages's fair use policy. --24.147.86.187 01:44, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Mombosa Chile

I purchased ground Mombosa chile and I can't find any specific information or recipes that contain it. The label only lists it as being a hot African pepper. What exactly is Mombosa chile and are there any good recipes?

Hot chilies are pretty much interchangeable except for the quantity used. If you don't know how hot the Mombasa chili is, assume it's extremely hot and add a tiny amount, finely chopped, to something you want to spice up, like salsa or chili (Warning: wear rubber gloves and eye protection when you chop them up, then wash the gloves before taking them off). If it's not hot enough, add more, until you get it right. Keep a glass of milk handy in case it gets hotter than you want. StuRat 03:05, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

According to (in the section titled "Doctor, how many varieties of capsicum exist in the world?"), Mombasa chili is "too hot to be eaten, it would blister the mouth!" Clarityfiend 03:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, we know it's pretty hot then. I think several chilies would blister your mouth if eaten whole, however. I repeat my warnings about rubber gloves and safety glasses. Also, I didn't actually say it before, but definitely do not taste the pepper straight, even in tiny quantities. You might also want to avoid any preparations which use the raw chilies, instead going for food where the chilies will be cooked, such as chili. This will help to distribute the capsaicin more evenly. StuRat 05:00, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I just saw that it's already ground, but eye protection and gloves might still be a good idea when handling it. StuRat 05:05, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate the information given but I understand the properties of capsaicin and have worked with a large number of chilies in the past. I was wondering if anyone knows the origin, size, color, cultivation, if their dried from another chile etc. (like in the case of ancho vs poblano) and if there are any recipes in which this pepper is traditionally used. Can anyone help me with this information?

Mold around windows

How can mold around the inside of windows in a home be cleaned and prevented in the future? I understand it has something to do with not having enough airflow from the outside but that's all I think I know... Dismas| 01:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Try cleaning it with a weak bleach solution on a sponge. StuRat 02:51, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

As for the causes, there are many factors:

• Poor insulation, which allows condensation to form on cold windows. A plastic window liner might be the best you can do to improve the insulation during the winter. In warm weather, you might want to consider getting better insulated windows. Specifically, vinyl windows are better insulated at the edges (assuming they fit properly) than aluminum windows, and won't mold like wood windows will.

• Higher humidity inside than can be maintained with cold windows. If you have a humidifier, turn it down. Other sources of humidity are cooking (cover your pots) and showers (take baths and/or close the door and turn on the fan or open the bathroom window) and leaky steam radiators.

• The temperature differential between inside and outside is also key. If you keep it cooler inside, this will be less of a problem.

• Painted window sills are also far more subject to this than marble sills, since they absorb the moisture. StuRat 02:51, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Weak solution? Others have told me straight bleach. Why do you suggest a weak solution? Dismas| 06:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Straight bleach will kill the mold. It may also wreck the paint, damage the underlying plaster or wood, stain any carpet or other surfaces it accidentally comes in contact with, and possibly kill you as well. --Carnildo 23:51, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the above, although it isn't likely to kill you, assuming by "straight bleach" you mean the 3% sodium hypochlorite solution sold in most stores. It can cause lung damage and could blind you if splashed in your eyes, though. See bleach#Hazards. If you do use straight bleach, use a tiny amount on a cotton swab, wear gloves to avoid getting bleach on your skin, and leave the room after treatment to limit exposure to the fumes. StuRat 04:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

No. If the insulation is grout - use white vinegar undiluted. If the contamination is heavy - use the vinegar repeatedly until the problem is cleared. If the insulation is silicone, use white spirit - no arguments - this works.

Well, this isn't an argument but I'm not referring to insulation or grout. The mold is on the wooden window frames.

As for the warnings, thanks for the concern, I know how to handle bleach properly. And yes, by straight bleach I did mean the common household stuff that you can buy in any supermarket for laundry. Dismas| 04:06, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Straight bleach may also lighten the base color of the wood, so I'd only go with that if the dilute solution isn't getting the job done. StuRat 19:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Science project with minimal involvement?

How can I do a science project with minimal involvement (as in 'do little') on my part? I don't have much time on my hands but I want to do a good experiment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Member (talk • contribs)

You need to give us some idea of your age. I will assume you are 10. Growing bacteria is pretty easy, you can mix up a batch of gelatin, swab the inside of your mouth to get some bacteria, then rub the swab in the gelatin. Then divide it between jars you put in the fridge (properly marked) and leave out. Then observe the diff in the growth rates in the jars. StuRat 02:40, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Good God. Don't do that! Trying to go bacteria from the human body is potentially dangerous as you have no idea what it is you are growing. This sort of experiment is banned in UK schools because of this issue. Also I'm not sure this would even work as StuRat describes as the bacteria would have nothing to eat (unless they eat the actual gelatin) Most bacteria are grown on agar gel that has had some sort of nutrient added to it. A safer microbiology experiment to do is to use yohurt bacteria (these are known to be safe) or allow bread to mould. Tie some fresh bread in some polythene bags and place some in the fridge and others in a warm place for about a week. Then examine inside the bags - no need to remove the bread as the mould will smell bad. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 17:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

They do go a bit overboard on the safety precautions, don't they ? Just keep the container closed and there is no way it's going to kill you. (Even if you opened the container and ate it all, you probably would still be OK, but don't do that, just in case). I did forget to mention that you should mix the gelatin with apple juice to provide the food source. The advantage of starting with a liquid is that you can mix it to get an identical bacteria count in each sample at the start of the experiment, something difficult to do when starting from bread. StuRat 19:49, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

They do but I suppose the thinking is why take a risk if you don't have to? Hence the yoghurt rather than a mouth swab. Many secondary schools simply buy in suitable bacteria. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 22:09, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

10...no, 13. --hello, i'm a member | talk to me! 03:04, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Have you tried looking up "science projects" or "science experiments" on Google? BenC7 03:13, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

You can do "Does moisture affect the rate of growth of mold on cheese" or something. Jamesino 03:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

When I was in middle school, anyone who did a science project involving potential biological hazards like bacteria or mold had to fill out a buttload of safety paperwork. Apparently someone got meningitis from moldy bread and they had to crack down on that sort of thing. I suggest avoiding anything to do with living organisms, especially human subjects. How about a nice safe physics experiment, like measuring the average number of pieces into which a piece of uncooked spaghetti breaks: —Keenan Pepper 04:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Measuring rainfall?Just an open-topped vessel which you measure every day and chart,about 5 mins work.(hotclaws**== 16:58, 7 January 2007 (UTC))

I grew my own bacteria at school, when I accidentally sneezed on a sample. And nothing came out and et anyone.Hidden secret 7 19:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Homesteading help, please?

I am a senior in high school right now but once I graduate from University I plan to pursue my dream of making a homestead in a few miles from the southern shore of Lake Superior. I read how to build a $4,000 cabin on this site, and I already know how to hunt, fish, sew, cook, chop wood, and do basic gardening/lawn care, but there is a LOT that I don't know, so I hope you can help.

First of all, how much land would I need to purchase? It will be just me and maybe my significant other living there, but I might need to use more land if, years down the road, I have children or need to take care of my parents in their old age. Plus, I would be a recent college graduate, so even though I am fiscally responsible and my parents are paying for my tuition, I won't really have a lot of spending money.

Are you talking about building in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan ? My brother lived there (although he was near the Lake Michigan shore). Two problems there are a lack of infrastructure (expect to dig wells, use septic tanks, and either pay thousands to bring in electricity or use windmills, etc.) and a lack of jobs. For communication you may need a satellite cell phone, unless you are near a major freeway or city with cell phone support. StuRat 03:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

That brings up the issue of further finances; how much would the rest of the homestead cost? I realise that I don't have to build it all at once, but I'd like to live there year-round as soon after I graduate as possible, so I'd need a cabin, shed, garden, and outhouse. The cabin plans listed on this site say about $4,000, but the materials could cost more, and I'd need to pay for the land, the people that help me build the thing, seeds, and some basic home furnishings.

Also beware that everything will cost more there, as it needs to be shipped in "from civilized areas". StuRat 03:32, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of furnishings, what is the best way to heat my cabin? I'm planning it to be about 20x20x15'... about 6000 cubic feet in one room. From what I've seen, solar panels seem way out of my range, and although a wood stove looks like a great idea, I'm worried about the amount of pollution that it could cause. Plus, I have no idea how much wood I'd need.

A wood stove is definitely the way to go. The pollution might be a problem on a global scale, but not locally, since the area is so lightly populated. One problem, though, expect to get up every hour at night to toss another log onto the fire. Cutting up fallen logs will also be how you will spend much of your day. Are you getting the idea that this will be hard work yet ? StuRat 03:40, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Burning wood isn't really a pollution problem on a global scale either, since I assume you're not expecting to clear this area of wood? I'd imagine you're planning on keeping a large patch of woodland that will continue to provide you with wood. The new wood that grows should at least equal the wood you burn, if you're not planning on running out! So it's carbon neutral. Skittle 19:15, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

The pollution concern with burning wood is the high amount of particulate matter in the smoke, relative to something like natural gas. StuRat 03:41, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I still have more questions! As I mentioned before, there would initially be one or maybe two people living in the cabin, and I intend to use the vegetable/fruit/herb garden on the homestead as the primary source of food. How large would the garden need to be to feed the homesteaders year-round, assuming that aside from some fruit trees (how many should I plant?) and the occasional fish or small game animal from Lake Superior/ the local forests are the only other food sources? I need to figure that out before it's the middle of winter and I realise that I don't have enough food.

Living completely off the land is unrealistic for most people. Are you an experienced hunter/fisherman ? Do you know how to clean small game ? How will you store the meat until you are ready to eat it ? A diet of fruits and vegetables would be inadequate, you would also need bread and cereals. Also, are you going to preserve the fruits and veggies for the winter ? Realistically, you should expect to get most of your food, at inflated prices, from the nearest store. StuRat 03:53, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I concur. As romantic as the idea seems, living off the land is completely untenable, and probably not at all desirable for even the most severe misanthrope. Vranak

Speaking of food, would it be a good idea to build a greenhouse at some point (not necessarily immediately) so that I can grow food in the relatively long off-season, or would the blustery cold of the long U.P. winters offset all possible gains from that? Also, would it be wise to build a cellar in which to store food I've canned, wood, and tools, or not? I wonder if a cellar would negate the physical integrity of the cabin, and if the cellar would get too soggy or make the house less heat-efficient. I promise, I'm almost done. I just would like to know how often I need to dig a new outhouse hole, how far that needs to be from the well, if I can dig the well myself or that needs to be a commercial job, and how I can get water from the well in wintertime. Also, how far do the well and outhouse need to be from the garden, and how far does all that need to be from the cabin?

The greenhouse isn't likely to work, as your lot is likely to be heavily wooded. Evergreens will block the few hours of sunlight you get in winter, and falling limbs are likely to damage the greenhouse, too. Also, the heavy lake-effect snowfall would likely collapse the roof. If the water level is high (if you're near the shore), then a cellar is out, but a well will be relatively easy. If the water level is low, say if you're up a hill from the lake, then a cellar would work but the well will need to be quite deep. I think the cellar is a good idea for keeping things cool in summer and warm in winter (you may find yourself sleeping down there). I would put the well adjacent to the cabin with underground pipes into the cabin, below the frost line. The well should use an electrical pump, controlled from the cabin. You could run the pump periodically to fill a tank inside the cabin. Hot water for baths could be a problem, you may have to settle for heating some water on the wood stove and pouring it into the tub. This works best if one person bathes while the other heats. Place the outhouse quite far from the cabin so the smell isn't a problem in summer and the water isn't polluted. Be prepared for long walks in blizzard conditions to and from the outhouse. Hanging a rope between it and the house is a good idea so you don't get lost and die in whiteout conditions. Actually, you'd best make it a series of ropes at various heights, such that the top rope is above the maximum snow depth. StuRat 04:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Finally, how far ahead of time do I need to start working on the homestead so that it's ready to move into when I graduate from university? I will be attending class full-time and working part-time, so I shall have to work on the homestead in my spare time, and that is going to be a LOT of work. Though I will have the summers off from school, I'll be working full-time then. So when do I need to start working on it... the summer between my sophomore and junior years? And what do I need to do to protect the area when I'm not there/through the winter?

I'm afraid you might be biting off a bit too much here. I suggest you do this in steps. First, buy a trailer in a mobile home park near a "big" city, like Houghton, Michigan, so you will have utilities. From there, you can scout out locations, buy a property, and work on improvements. I would expect to spend several years to get it into a habitable condition. As for money, you should expect to spend tens of thousands of dollars, can you manage this ? If not, you should probably work and save up money first. StuRat 04:23, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so much for putting up with all of my questions! I hope that you can answer some, maybe even all of them. Thank you so much again. 65.42.241.93 02:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest purchasing a book on self-sufficiency; it should be able to answer most of your questions. BenC7 03:11, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

You might also try contacting people who have already started a homestead. I'm not really that familiar with the community myself but the first name that pops to mind would be Eustace Conway. In addition to other things, he runs a camp dedicated to skills that would be used in homesteading. Dismas| 05:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Hopefully you have already learned to snowshoe. That area can receive 200-300 inches of snow each winter and may have snow on the ground from November to April continuously. Rmhermen 21:40, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Look at every issue of Mother Earth News, available free online at which strongly advocated the lifestyle you are considering, especially in the early years of publication. Read "Five Acres and Independence" by M.G. Kains, revised 2003, and "The Good Life" by Helen and Scott Nearing. Try living in the area but not in a full-blown, build a cabin and live off the land mode. It works to live in a country place and work to buy the things you can't raise. Many rural areas have had a population decrease, so there are cabins and small homes for rent cheap, and you can try a year to see how things work for you, such as the relative isolation. You need to have good neighbors, because people benefit from the help of others. For heat, there are wood burning furnaces which go outside the dwelling, and there are wood heaters such as the Ashley, which have a thermostat and a damper, allowing a more even heat for a long time. Fireplaces are pretty, but impractical heat sources. Follow every rule about fire safety, since many people heating with wood burn their house down. Fireproof material under a stove, and between the stove and the wall, insulated chimney and thimble, avoid huge roaring blazes and red hot stoves. A couple of generations ago in many parts of the U.S. people had no electricity, got their water from a well they dug or drilled, heated with wood, grew most of their food, and counted themselves as fortunate that they owned their home and farm. But many people who thought they would live off the land in a 1970's free spirited, non-materialistic lifestyle gave up when the cow died and the crop failed and they got lonesome or someone got sick and they realized how far they lived from (then) 20th century medical assistance. As for protecting the structure when you are away for months, my relatives in the country say that breaking into homes is very popular. Expect seomone to break in and steal or vandalize or make it into a crack factory. There is no structure you can build so solid that someone can't break in. Someone said if you build it out of 3 inch welded armor plate, as you are finishing the last weld on the east side someone will be cutting a hole in the west side with a plasma cutter. The only way around that would perhaps be to have your friend or relative living next door, arguing again for renting a vacant cabin next to someone's rural home. Many people are desirous of a good neighbor. Good luck. Edison 13:45, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Another way to deal with that risk is to have a portable home and take it with you, like an RV. The property, of course, would then need to have all the proper hook-ups. Of course, this particular question was about living in the home permanently, so it would be less of a risk. StuRat 19:41, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

About the green and red numbers in "My Watchlist"

Recently I have observed in My Watchlist that in each article watched there are green positive and red negative numbers in between brackets between the article's last edit time and the last user to edit it. What are the meaning of those numbers. I have never seen them before a few days ago...? --Francisco Valverde 02:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

See Help:Watching_pages#What_do_the_colored_numbers_mean? for more information on this. (Also note, for future reference, that the help desk is the appropriate place to ask questions related to Misplaced Pages.) Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 02:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Eyes and glasses

Why do my eyes only itch when I have my glasses on? (Serious Q)--Light current 02:54, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Maybe your eyelashes are rubbing against the glass every time you blink.Jamesino 03:45, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Do your eyelids itch, or the actual eye? Whenever I have itchy eyes related to my glasses, it's from loose eyelashes that are prevented from falling off completely because of the lens - they stick to my eyes! AAAGH! I feel your pain. V-Man737 04:17, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

No not the eyes themselves, but the skin around the eyes and eyelids. I have to take my glasses off the rub them--Light current 04:22, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it has to do with the lack of air circulation? Humidity builds up in the space between your face and the glasses? —Keenan Pepper 04:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't suppose you're allergic to light? Too ironic. V-Man737 04:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Try reading something. As you read your eyes move around, and this could help clean them.Hidden secret 7 10:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I had major problems with itchy eyes and such, back when I wore glasses and contacts. Eventually I just swore off glasses (and contacts) altogether. Within a couple days my vision had already markedly improved. A year and half later, I don't even have to squint anymore. Still a long way from 20/20 vision, though. Vranak

Revenue from Google AdSense

As I cannot find the information on Google's official site, does anyone know how much monthly revenue I can generate from putting Google Ads onto my webpage? Thanks. Jamesino 03:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

This depends on how many time visitors to your site click on the sponsored ads. It will be dependent on both site traffic and the disposition of your visitors towards ads. As for a per-click fee, that is a closely guarded secret.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 04:57, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

It not a secret. It just varies by ad. Superm401 - Talk 01:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

PunkBuster question

The EULA for PunkBuster says that it may scan your computer and upload anything at all that it finds (including screenshots of computer use) to its servers. If I have files on my computer that are illegal to posess under United States law, do I have anything to worry about? Does punkbuster detect anything besides cheats? (UTC)

These days, the best bet is simply to not own files that are illegal. Although companies that make software like PunkBuster may not care, there is the possibility that the government may have bugged your computer already. But to answer your question more directly, since its main purpose is to prevent cheating in online games, I'd say PunkBuster is matter-specific enough to not worry about it. At most, perhaps they have a department that deals with finding illegal files with this method, involving Federal reports, etc. V-Man737 05:09, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

At the risk of providing legal advice, I would first find what exactly the company promises about the data it collects in the EULA. Do they promise not to give it to a third parties? Do they say who has access to this data? How long do they keep it? Any answers you want are in the EULA. I'm pretty sure that anything they have can be subpoenaed with good enough reason. If you're talking about child porn, I would suggest not installing the software if you don't want to spend the rest of your life in jail. If you're talking about downloaded music/movies/etc., I wouldn't really worry. -Michael 05:13, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

More like QTFairUse, mdcrack, DeCSS sources, etc --froth 21:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure PB won't fetch random things from your HD, only game related things perhaps, like saved screenshots or configuration files. I think people would be up in storm if PB took a bunch of random files off your hard drive and sent them to its servers, such a thing could compromise a business, and would be possibly classified malicious spyware. If you're still concerned, use a virtual disk (I use TrueCrypt, but that's only because that's what I first heard of, I'm sure there's others out there that save "disks" as files and you can mount them). It'd be extremely unlikely PB would read off disks rather than your main HD, and it would not be able to do so at all for passworded or encrypted volumes. --Wooty Woot? contribs 06:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

House of the Rising Sun

In which album is "House of the Rising Sun" (by The Rolling Stones) listed in? I can't find it! CL

I'm fairly certain that the song you are looking for is not by the Rolling Stones, but by The Animals.

The House of the Rising Sun article lists The Rolling Stones as having done a cover of the song. Anchoress 08:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it might be wrong. All Music Guide shows no listing for the Rolling Stones among the 483 releases of the song. --jpgordon 16:27, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

The article doesn't really state whether it is has been recorded or not — they might have done it in concert. Of course, if it is verifiable it shouldn't be in an article... --24.147.86.187 18:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

No mention of The Beatles here; a view with which I am happy to concur. Eric Burdon of The Animals was by no means the first, but was by far the best in living memory - pity all the credit went to Alan Price (who nonetheless did a magnificent job on his organ). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.240.100 (talk • contribs) 18:53, January 7, 2007 (UTC)

Well, thanks to all of you who responded! CL

Historic Flags of Yukon (Canadian territory)

Note: my question might only be able to be answered by someone with an extensive knowledge of Canadian flags and vexillology. While looking for information to work on the article Flag of Yukon, I was looking for any information on past historical flags of the Yukon, knowing that the current flag has been around since 1967/1968. I found this website: which has listed two past historical flags of the Yukon, which can be viewed at

• (according to the site for 1934-1956) and
• (according to the site for 1956-1967)

No other information is provided, and so far it is the only site I've found with these flags or any info on past flags of the Yukon for that matter. If anyone knows if these flags are in fact correct, or any information on them or or if they were ever even used, that would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for any help I receive.--Bobo is soft 06:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I haven't found any other sites, either, but have no reason to doubt that source. I do wonder what the flag of Yukon was prior to 1934, however. Also, do you intend to update our Flag of Yukon article with those flags ? Yukon do it if you want, otherwise I will. :-) StuRat 03:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm still waiting for e-mails from an archivist and author for verification, but I will update the article as soon as I get the proper information. So far my guess is those flags are hypothetical examples.Bobo is soft 05:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, thanks for your efforts on improving the article. StuRat 04:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Volumetric Display Penguin

Does anyone know how to make a volumetric display (as in, a 3d hologram) of a penguin? They're so adorable. .V. 07:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you actually mean a hologram ? That is basically a 3D photographic process, so you would need a penguin or reasonable facsimile as your subject, and would need a holography studio to capture the image. Perhaps you really mean a computer representation, like VRML ? StuRat 02:20, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

It would be the first case. Do you have any more info on holography studios? .V. 07:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Our article has many links, especially at the bottom. You can find the info you need there. StuRat 19:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Tiger barbs

I just app two weeks ago, purchased two Tiger Barbs---already had three cherry barbs and one Beta (we have had awhile). The Cherry barbs and beta have gotten along great and also the tiger barbs. But past couple days---smaller tiger barb won't leave bigger one alone. Read where they are nippers toward other fish, but did not say if nipped their own. It looked like he kept nipping same place, behind bottom fin. I know they chase each other to play and read it is better if have five or more---will get three more if that the case (have 20 gal tank. Did not know if maybe mating ritual---but looks like it is all red where the one has been nipping---don't know if blood or what. Got the aggresive nipping one seperated from all other fish. The larger one, think he may die, swimming more with face pointed down---but seems to be a little better since seperated the other one. Looked everywhere for anwsers---the kids at pet store don't know nothing---said they would all be fine together. I know Beta a fighting fish, but he's done just fine---when anyone of others bothers him, he just runs them off and goes bout his business. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,Leggylulu 14:32, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Tiger barbs are rather violent little buggers, aren't they? The nipping shouldn't be a problem - they tend to spend most of their time chasing each other around, so if you have half a dozen or so they'll keep each other busy. They make lovely fast-moving groups, swirling around in intricate dances trying to get at each other to establish the pecking order...

As to "swimming face pointed down", this should be okay - our friend Barbus tetrazona is a natural bottom-feeder, and will often feed like this, at about a thirty degree angle, against the bed of the tank. They're quite stable like that, if memory serves. Shimgray | talk | 14:47, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

My account

Dear Misplaced Pages,It seem as tough I am unable to log in. Can you help?

My email is:dan 2 man 2 at yaho0 d0t c0m 
                               Thank you and
                                            Happy New Year!

Well, I'm able to. What exactly do you try and what do you obtain (void, silly message or computer explosion ?) -- DLL 18:20, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Is your user page still there? If not, just make a new one. If it is, probably you have just misremembered your password or are typing your username incorrectly (you need to be careful with case-sensitivity). Have you tried the "Email new password" button on the login screen? BenC7 02:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Mood Ring Entry

Jan 7, 2007

To; Anyone who can advise me on latest change made to the "Mood Ring" Web-page on Misplaced Pages,

Someone has recently added a new color to the listed "Mood Ring Color Chart" on the E-article about "Mood Rings". The new color added is "Orange- Guilty Feelings. . .etc". Would appreciate a response from whomever added that color and where they got their information from. I don't necessarily disagree with the mood that is applied to the color orange. I do disagree with where they placed the color orange on the mood chart. "Orange" should be placed inbetween "Gray" & "Amber". Anyone else can respond to my question here as well.

Thank you & respond to me here.

Signed, Dawn

Click on the history tab of the page. Please do not leave ur email address here. -- DLL 18:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Jan 7, 2007

To; Harvestman,

Thank you for timely response. I corrected my earlier entry here regarding email. I checked on the history of edits made to the "Mood Ring" page and did not find anything that explained the recent addition of the color "Orange" to the "Mood Ring Color Chart" (where they got their sources from). I also found many additions (and then deletions) of other colors to the "Mood Ring Chart". Some reasonably accurate and others completely incorrect. You appear to be more experienced at working with the Misplaced Pages Encyclopedia than I am. What is your opinion of the recent entry of "Orange" to the "Mood Color Chart"? I think that the mood attached to the color is reasonably accurate, but if it is correct- I believe that "Orange" should be placed inbetween "Gray" & "Amber".

Would appreciate any advice you have to give. Advice from anyone else is Ok too.

Thank you again,

Dawn

I couldn't find any sauce online about orange in a mood ring, so I took it out and added a source from this website backing up what is left. A Google search will yield thousands of identical indications. V-Man737 21:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Personally I think orange could be assosiated with impatience, or even anger. Try sitting in a traffic jam for hours, looking at the lines of endless orange.Hidden secret 7 20:27, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Retailer deception

Is the way that Wal-Mart and others have made so much money "selling" music online at a lower cost than a CD is through the deception of claiming that the transaction is a purchase on the part of the "buyer" when in fact it is a rental or lease according the the degree of control Wal-Mart retains over the ability of the "buyer" to play a song? (Microsoft's WMA format requires Windows Media Player to be online and to succeed in verifying the "buyer" has a license to play the song before the song can be played)

Since this system of license verification allows Wal-Mart to know when you play every song can Wal-Mart use this system to track your activity and if so what options do you have to keep Wal-Mart from threatening your privacy like that? 71.100.10.48 21:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

If that's really the case, then the best way to keep Wal-Mart out of your computer is to keep it out of your computer. V-Man737 21:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

That's a great idea except that after 90 days wal-Mart will not issue a refund or accept a return although it will continue to maintain control over the song. If Wal-Mart charged 1¢ everytime you played the song and stated that you were only renting the song (like putting money in a juke box) and Wal-Mart instead of claiming that you were purchasing the song and then charging you 88¢ to download it but then keeping you from playing it under a variety of different circumstances until you reacquired the license (which in some cases is not automatic or transparent and can take many emails and phone calls and even days or weeks to reacquire) then it would be hard to call it a deception but honesty has never been a policy of some retailers and never, ever will. 71.100.10.48 22:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

The terms and agreements of your purchase are written clearly in the company's purchase policy. That they have such strong and frankly foolish rules over how your purchase is licensed to you is a matter that the mass-market will filter out. It is clear that the mass market has a desire to purchase legal music instead of steeling it (1bn+ sold on iTunes Music Store alone), but that many users are unhappy with the terms and agreement. Intellectual Property is a very unusual area because what you are buying is not the product (in this case 5-10mb of data) but the intellectual content of that data. They sell the data to you with their choice of Digital Rights Management and you have the choice not to buy it. It is a pity that so many firms have gone (in my view) too far with DRM, but their justification is that piracy of their valuable material is rife and they need to try control it (even though their efforts are essentially futile). New start ups have tried different things, there is a site (www.amiestreet.com) which is taking off, the first X users to buy the song get it for free and as it becomes more popular the price increases until it is at the full price ($0.98), not sure of the DRM they have but the business model is quite interesting. ny156uk 23:40, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

That is the problem... most everyone would rather pay for something because the consequence of paying is entitlement and legal right of possession, resale, ownership, etc. but even though they have been duped into paying with the claim that ownership and all of the rights which accompany it remain intact by calling it a purchase rather than a rental. The problem is after calling it a purchase they then defer to the provisions in the purchase agreement for exceptions. The deception is that they do not call it a rental up front but hide this fact in the "purchase" (rather than rental) agreement. Call it what it is, a rental agreement and not a purchase agreement or live with the consequences of piracy which such deceptive practices spawn. -- 71.100.10.48 00:32, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I recommend Magnatune. You can get the file in most formats, including original WAV, there's no DRM and they encourage you to share the songs with about 3 friends. Also, artists get half the proceeds. Superm401 - Talk 00:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I really shy away from the whole concept of "buying" a song electronically. If I buy something, I want to be able to hold it in my hands and gloat over it (and possibly have the ability to accidentally break it). (Truncated rant) V-Man737 08:49, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, with Magnatune you can legally burn it to CD (and break it) as many times as you want. It will even be high-quality if you download the WAVs. No, I don't get a commission, and I've only bought from them once. :) Superm401 - Talk 09:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I would never buy anything at all that's DRM'd and I mercilessly strip all of the software on my computer of its protection (CD in drive, online checks, etc) even if it's legally owned. I'm especially suspicious of iTunes since it binds your music to your account and you can't get at the actual decrypted audio without using the iTunes player! It's an insane situation (and a dangerous one if it evolves into more than just music), but people don't care because they trust apple. --froth 09:19, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Companies have a problem when products obtained officially are inferior to products obtained unofficially. And as Superm401 said, Magnatune is a good, DRM free solution. WP 10:18, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

DRM is there to protect the stability of the record labels, they need to protect their valuable work from abuse. The development of DRM is very much in its infancy and some of the locked-down format on offer are not 100% perfect. They are not entirely different however to the Video-tape war of the 80s, or indeed software that only works on given platforms (games developers workign exclusively for one console ring any bells?). This is all an attempt to protect market-share. DRM is not some evil, it limits the things you can do with music more so than a CD but in return your product is cheaper/more conviniently bought than a CD. The problem exists because piracy is a gigantic industry with billions of songs (and increasingly DVD quality movies) moving hands across the internet without those who developed them receiving payment. Now whether you think that is fair is your own view, but the DRM is an attempt by the firms to protect themsevlves. iTunes clearly has a system that users and record-labels both accept and whilst I would love a more open system the limiations on usage have (from my purchases since launch) caused me no problems at all. ny156uk 18:09, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

That's simply not true. Record labels have been "stable" and indeed complacent, for years, without the use of DRM. They are merely using the entrance into the online marketplace as an excuse to further limit fair use rights. This is not the same as a format war, because this is not mere incompatibility. The video war was over which standards to support. With, companies are not free to support whatever format they want, because of encryption. If this encryption is broken (even for otherwise legal reasons), it is a violation of the DMCA. DRM doesn't stop piracy. How could it, when CDs can still be freely copied? What it does is limit what legitimate customers can do with music they've licensed. DRM certainly causes me practical inconvenience, because it is not supported on GNU/Linux. Thus, I support Magnatune, which seems to be doing fine without "protecting their valuable work". Superm401 - Talk 07:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Software portability is a technical problem, not a political or financial agenda. As for piracy, there's no excuse for DRM, even rampant piracy. --froth 20:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Whats that song?

What was that song that was in the episode of "The Bernie Mac Show" when Bernie had gotten a motorcycle and had crashed then he was shown a hallucination of how his family's life would be without him?The only lyrics I remember are "Our voices will ring together!!".Thks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.247.5.216 (talk) 22:27, 7 January 2007 (UTC).

Fantasy by Earth, Wind & Fire? That's what Google seems to think it is. Dave6 23:17, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Zipf's Law

Does the website's global traffic rank on the Internet and hits per day obey Zipf's Law? If so, can anybody give me the formula in relation to Zipf's Law?--PrestonH | talk | contribs | editor review | 23:03, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Zipf's Law applies to frequencies, not ranks. Also, it applies to the frequencies of the occurrences of types from an ensemble of types. For example, for the ensemble of online encyclopedias, the number of consultations of each encyclopedia. Or, for the articles on Misplaced Pages, the number of edits to each article. It is not a meaningful concept with respect to the traffic attracted by a single website.  --Lambiam 06:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Umm, I don't think so. The Zipf's law article says "the frequency of any word is roughly inversely proportional to its rank in the frequency table." In this case, the frequency would be the number of hits. It certainly could apply. I don't know if it does. Superm401 - Talk 09:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

January 8

what would I be

what would i be if my aunt got married to someone.and that person now which would be my uncle had an x-girlfriend that had a kid that had 2 kids if those two kids were the grandaughters of my uncle now? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.215.28.59 (talk) 00:22, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

A nephew. Nice try, though. Superm401 - Talk 00:24, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Or niece, in relation to your aunt. Though I suspect you are really asking about your relationship to your uncle's grandchildren. Of course, you are not blood relatives, but you might consider your new relatives "cousins by marriage". To be really specific, you could call them your aunt's husband's grandchildren. Marco polo 17:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Or uncle's grandchildren, since "uncle" is not specific to blood relatives. Btw, a nephew to an uncle does not become a niece to an aunt; he's still a nephew to the aunt. Same for nieces. JackofOz 01:19, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I think Marco Polo was trying to be gender non-specific (although I gotta agree, it probably isn't in relation to the aunt). At any rate, the answer to the original question is that it would, in fact, make you a monkey's uncle. (Or, depending on perspective, a West Virginian, but we'll not get into that.) V-Man737 01:51, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Confused copyright question

Hi, I have read Misplaced Pages's FAQ on copyright, but I am still confused. I found an online book that is copyrighted by its author. The website states:

Permission is granted for an individual to make only a single electronic copy or paper copy for personal reference purposes. Permission is not granted for an individual or institution to make more than a single copy, or take part in any arraignment where a third party is either paid or charged for a copy or the reproduction of one. Nor is permission is granted for distribution of any of this material (in whole or part) from any Internet site (other than the author's site of fraser.cc). Inquiries should be made to the author if you wish to make other than a single copy for personal use or to distribute any of the material from your own Web site.

Am I not allowed to put any of it's information in an article? Even if I reword it? Even if I properly cite it as a source? Thank you for any help.--Bobo is soft 00:34, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but you can't copy and paste it. You have to rewrite it in your own words, and yes we want you to cite it as a source. This question belongs on the help desk though. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 00:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

That's just a typical copyright notice; quoting, rephrasing, etc. is still covered under fair use. See Misplaced Pages:Fair use for details on fair use claims with text. --24.147.86.187 01:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Rephrasing has nothing to do with fair use. It isn't a copyright infringement at all. Only expression can be copyrighted, not ideas. Superm401 - Talk 01:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes and no. In practice derivative expressions can be considered derivative works. It isn't quite as clear cut as the standard mantras would have it appear; if you look over the case law for fair use suits (Stanford's site is especially good for that) you'll see how the line between expression and ideas gets pretty murky. --24.147.86.187 03:31, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

photo copyright

I've added the photo to http://en.wikipedia.org/Scott_Styles, and have gotten a message that it was scheduled for speedy deletion. I've tried to add the GFDL-self to it, and want to let it be known. As nice as Misplaced Pages is, it does seem to be cumbersome.

If copyrights have to be a certain way to be published, it should be noted concisely, and the options in the drop down menu when adding a photo/file shouldn't allow one to select an inadmissible copyright... don't you think? Why make more work for Wiki by allowing multitudes of people upload works with inadmissible copyrights which have to be deleted. In my case the end result is going to be the same... a photo added. But an extra hour of my time, and some of yours (wiki's), has been seemingly wasted.

Thanks03:45, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Everyone finds image uploads and copyright wrangling a pain, even experienced wikipedians. You're not alone! --froth 09:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

The reason we let people pick inadmissable copyright statuses is because otherwise people who want to upload something imadmissable just pick an admissable one at random, even if it has nothing to do with the image. I don't want to criticize but if you had just read the upload page before uploading it is pretty clear about what is necessary. Any terms which might be unfamiliar are linked to articles describing them. Not sure what else you are looking for here — it isn't our fault that you decided not to read the disclaimers which are printed quite large and with some parts written in nasty red and bold. --Fastfission 21:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone think fart jokes are funny?

The low point of a Family Guy episode tonight (and perhaps the low point of the series) was a fart joke. That got me thinking: I have never met anyone who thinks fart jokes are funny. Yet they are remarkably prevalent on TV and, especially, in greeting cards. Does anyone think fart jokes are funny? I can't imagine the Family Guy writers laughed out loud when they wrote the joke. Do they (and other humor writers) think there's a population out there somewhere that really loves fart jokes? -- Mwalcoff 04:01, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

See for yourself Flatulence_humor--Light current 04:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I didn't see the show tonight, but the sheer pervasiveness of that kind of humor on American TV alone should convince you that plenty of people respond to it. One example: Recently on Saturday Night Live they parodied a show called Most Haunted, specifically the show's resident medium Derek Acorah, framing the entire skit around just such humor. It's fair to suggest that the writers of Family Guy are well aware of how cheap or low such humor is, but you could also argue that it's expected from a character like Peter Griffin. Personally I like the show, but it's hardly High culture. To some degree, being an adult and openly enjoying that kind of humor is something of a minor taboo ... which may go some distance in explaining why you don't know anyone who enjoys it.Wolfgangus 05:18, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

It would appear, at least in some situations, to function as a bit of a meta-joke. That is, the basis of amusement is because it is so lame and juvenile. See, for example, its use in the recent (and rather good) Children of Men. A mature Michael Caine uses the old "pull my finger" line (twice!) to some amusement from the audience. Not because its a funny line, but because of the contextual contrast of an elderly man making such a childish remark. As a proof or principle - I challenge you to read the intro of our pull my finger and refrain from smiling. I found it mildly amusing, probably because of the contrast between the puerile subject matter and the matter-of-fact, encyclopaedic description (and because the person doing the guffing is referred to as an "illusionist"!) Rockpocket 07:55, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes. I think fart jokes are funny. It depends on a person's willingness to be immature for a time. It's a bit like suspension of disbelief in a way. On the other side of things, my father doesn't think "toilet humor" is funny at all. But then I think he was born being 60 years old... And yes, I know this is POV and OR. Dismas| 08:06, 8 January 2007 (UTC)_{please don't ban me}

Every once in a while, people need to reflect on their bodily functions with a philosophical perspective and laugh themselves silly. Isn't it hilarious that our bodies make bizarre noises as they get rid of gas? Certainly not all the time. But still... V-Man737 09:00, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I guess it's kind of like the lone "Your. Mom." comeback.. it's so bad, it's good --froth 09:14, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Without knowing for sure, I would bet my house and my pension on the original questionner being a US American. Only that race could re-invent itself to be "above" natural bodily functions and the natural and inoffensive humour that results. Prudishness personified. That's why they don't use the lavatory, toilet or water-closet, favouring instead - the Bathroom. Get real before you disappear in a cloud of faecal gas. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.241.235 (talk) 11:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

This is a reference desk, not a soapbox. Wolfgangus 11:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

For the record -- yes, I am American, and no, I don't dislike fart jokes out of prudishness. I dislike them because they're stupid. And it's not like other countries find fart jokes funnier than Americans do, do they? I don't think I've ever seen a fart joke in a French movie. -- Mwalcoff 04:01, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

How about a barbaric society where people commonly use terms in professional conversation that allude to septic functions of the body? Now bathroom (over toilet) doesn't sound so unusual for an advanced society does it? Anyway, I think it evolved more from "washroom". --froth 20:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

A TV program which only has fart jokes would get rather tedious. A few farts, on the other hand, mixed in, are hardly flatal to the show. StuRat 19:19, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Part of the writers' fartistic freedom, huh? (Sigh...) 惑乱 分からん 23:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I could counter your horrible puns, but I think I'll pass. V-Man737 05:52, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

You've just committed a fragrant foul. --StuRat 06:03, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Nooo! ;_; LOL. We're not worthy. V-Man737 06:18, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I hope certain sitcoms catch wind of this. The last time I agreeably sat through a sitcom, I was aghast at the people who consider it to be some kind o fart. Most of the humor was derived from sex, toilets, or merciless personal insults. Actually, I was impressed when on The Drew Carey Show they used more original humor than toilet humor. My main griping is for those dime-a-dozen sitcoms that came out in a gust of foul air in the late 90s. V-Man737 00:22, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

What is the French translation for Fart? Is it Mistral, or is that just a strong wind? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.242.35 (talk) 11:31, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

The mistral is a specific type of cold katabatic wind occurring for example in the Provence. The French word for the noun "fart" is le pet, and for the verb péter, whence the stage name Le Pétomane. Note that these words may be considered vulgar.  --Lambiam 12:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Cigarette burn on enamel surface

Is there any possible way to remove a small cigarette burn from an enamel surface like a bathtub? Many thanks. --Richardrj 06:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

My dad has some hot sauce that might work... On a more serious note, I would suggest bleach, were it not for the ridicule my last recommendation of the purgatory substance harvested. V-Man737 13:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

From my own experience: My opinion is that one should physically remove the discoloured layer with a fine sandpaper or buffing compound and a rotary hobbyist tool (Dremel) fitted with with a buffing disk. Bleach does not seem to remove the brown colour. I have seen paint remover restore a whiter colour, but that "wore off" after a few months - the area went a light beige colour, and the surface felt slightly roughened and pitted. I'd try buffing the area, since that is what we ended up doing anyway. Once the surface was quite smooth and shiny the whiteness lasted for at least 4 more years. Whatever one does, that section of the enamel finish is permanently thinner or weaker than the unburnt part. --Seejyb 13:53, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Try white vinegar.

Choice

All preferences seem reactionary insofar as they are either reinforced responses (punishment/reward scenarios both in childhood and in adulthood) or counter-reactions to those same enforcements. It seems that even logical deduction cannot escape this process; after all, to properly form a string of logic, the subject would need to have experience in that realm of knowledge. Of course, that realm of knowledge would have been obtained through the means described prior (either forced upon the subject or chosen by the subject as a result of earlier, external preference-forming.)

This creates the question, where are the preferences coming from in the first place? Would it be too bold to say that society and the maintenance of society is the genesis of these impulses? It seems that individuals surrender individual freedoms for some conception of a greater freedom or ability. For example, one can enter into a society where a particular idea is "banned" (every society has their sacred cow), but in return for this restriction of thought, they gain solidarity and support. After all, reliance on others seems to be an innate human need to an extent (division of labor, and all that.) The societal groups try to cultivate this even further, usually by the implicit threat that if uniformity is not achieved, the individual would be separated from the rest. I've noticed that this creates an almost crippling conformity, even in counter-culture groups. Combined with the natural human tendency to adapt to a situation (like Stockholm Syndrome), it seems like many who favor this conformity favor it only because they dislike the alternative. It's somewhat sad that this is what passes for contentment nowadays.

It seems that if this were the case, there would truly be no free will or free choice.

Anyway, what do you fellows think? .V. 07:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

What you have explained is essentially the behaviourist view of learning, also known as connectionism. Connectionist theory has expanded to take on board more cognitive approaches, which basically recognize that not everything can be explained purely by stimulus-response-reinforcement connections. For the most part, it is basically understood (as you have asked "if this were the case"), that no, it is not the case. People are more complicated than bundles of nerves that are just automatic responses to stimuli. See also Gestalt psychology. BenC7 11:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure people are that complex. .V. (talk) 11:59, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Close as I can figure, if everybody is completely free, then everybody is completely unfree. Conclusion: some people are more 'free' than others. I'd recommend investigating Nietzsche, though, if you want an in-depth analysis of 'freedom', 'will', 'choice' and so on. Also, I do not recommend the Matrix trilogy. Vranak

I think it's quite clear from observing people that free will is a complete illusion. Whenever you are faced with a choice, you can make a completely free choice, and yet it is the choice you will always have made. If someone was exactly the same as you and had lived exactly the same life as you, and was in exactly the same position, they would make the same choice. You act as humans have to act. However, you have to act as if you had free will, otherwise what's the point? I have seen no evidence that humans need be anything other than physical beings, making their decisions through electrical impulses and chemical reactions. However, it is often easier to deal with humans if you treat them as something else, something simpler. Macro view over micro. Cognitive approaches use a useful model for people who interface with humans; it's less useful if you're looking to perform surgery on a brain, for example. Skittle 22:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Connectionist theory started to expand to include cognitive concepts because it was found that connectionism could not adequately explain all behavioural phenomena that could be observed. There was an experiment where mice were placed in an area with one exit straight ahead, which turned a couple of times and eventually led to a food reward. After a few runs of this, the mice were put in a similar area which now had multiple exits, with the one leading straight ahead blocked off. Instead of choosing one of the paths leading close-to-straight-forward as expected (since this behaviour had been rewarded before), the mice actually chose the path that went most directly toward the food. The conclusion was that the mice must have developed some sort of "map" that told them the general direction of the food from the starting area - a very cognitive concept.

I would recommend reading more on the development of connectionist learning theory (including how it has moved in more cognitive directions, and why) before concluding that humans are robotic responses to stimuli with no ability to choose anything. A good book (although it is a little old) is Learning: A survey of psychological interpretations by Winfred F. Hill, if you can find it and are interested enough. BenC7 01:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I fail to see why the ability to form a map in your head would require anything other than physical brains operating through chemical reactions and electrical impulses. Plus, since I already know humans can do this, why would telling me mice can do this affect my view of how human minds work? Oh, note I didn't say humans had no ability to choose anything, just that all the choices they make are predictable and inevitable. You say 'robotic responses to stimuli' like that means simple reflex reactions; robotics and computers can be quite advanced :-) Again, these ways of looking at how minds work are useful, but so is centrifugal force. Skittle 02:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't think that centrifugal force has much to do with brains, except when you're trying to launch someone into space while at the same time trying to avoid squishing their brains with G-force. :-P V-Man737 02:27, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

He was trying to make the point that centrifugal force, though intuitively appealing, does not exist. Now - no doubt that the brain does work through chemical reactions and electrical impulses; but the OP was saying that preferences to do one thing or another arise solely from reinforced responses. In the mice example, I was demonstrating that behaviour cannot always be explained in that way. BenC7 06:37, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Ohhhh... So, brains can't get squashed with centrifugal force? V-Man737 06:52, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I find it very difficult to make any decisions like this, as for me almost all choises seem equally good, or bad. But then I also have lots of conflicting oppinions about the same things at the same time, so this could explain it. Or maybe nothing can explain the brain, as it is what is also trying to do the explaining. Also if centrifugal forse doesn't exist, does potential energy really exist?Hidden secret 7 20:20, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Belly Stripe.

What is the dark or sometimes light colored stripe/line found on pregnant ladies tummies? What is the purpose there of? Thanx,--Crazypinkster 12:17, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Stretching of skin? 惑乱 分からん 12:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

See Stretch marks --Maelwys 13:25, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanx but i was refering to the stripe that passes down the middle vertically right over the belly button! Any ideas?--Crazypinkster 13:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Linea nigra --Seejyb 14:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I thought that was a village in Mexico? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.241.235 (talk) 19:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

Cyrus cylinder

Hi guys. Is there a free picture of the Cyrus Cylinder ? (I cannot find any on Commons). If not, could someone go the British Museum and take a photo of it ? Thanks a lot, bye. --NeuCeu 14:21, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean this? http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:Cyrus_The_Great_Seal.jpg

This is non-free ! There is no source for the picture and IMHO, it has been abusively tagged as PD. --NeuCeu 14:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's so easy to get a picture of anything in the British Museum. It would be like telling someone to get a PD picture of the Mona Lisa. --Zeizmic 14:57, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Is it forbidden to take a photo in the British Museum ? We have commons:Category:British Museum, so I supposed that it's possible to get a picture of an object exposed in there. --NeuCeu 15:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

(after edit conflict and Anthony removing my comment) - It is forbidden to take photographs in many areas of the British Museum as flash photography damages the works. The fact that it does happen - because of the hundreds of ignorant people who all think 'well, my one photo won't hurt' and the cretins who rapidly take many flash photographs of the same piece - does not mean we should encourage it, at all. Proto::► 15:34, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

No - the museum's copyright policy (located at the bottom of their webiste) states that all images are protected under copyright; furthermore, the images are from the United Kingdom and therefore do not qualify under Fair Use. Editors of Misplaced Pages who are more experienced in the area of copyright than I am may be able to clarify, but I have sourced my answers from the British Museum website and from Misplaced Pages:Copyrights. Anthonycfc 15:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

The fact that it is copyrighted originally in the UK does not impact a claim of "fair use" under U.S. law. Rmhermen 16:06, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I looked this up, and it's generally impossible to get any 'clean' PD picture of any museum work, unless the museum releases PD images on the web. That means people should annoy the museums 'that it is part of their mandate', yada, yada. --Zeizmic 15:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Uh, that's weird ! Look at commons:Category:Louvre, you will see that it's authorized to take photos of pieces in the Louvre with no flash of course (only some parts of the museum are restricted to photography, the excuse is that it blocks the crowd ; but if you take a photo when it's not overcrowded, the guards won't tell you anything) and French contributors started to take pictures of everything interesting in the museum. So, yes, it's possible to get a free picture of Mona Lisa (look at Image:Crowd at Mona Lisa.jpg). So when we need a picture of something in the Louvre, we just ask some guy to go there with his camera. Is there a page like Misplaced Pages:Asked pictured or something like that on en:WP ? --NeuCeu 16:09, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Yep, here it is: Misplaced Pages:Requested pictures --Maelwys 16:15, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Many museums ban pictures, and some take a very broad-brush ownership of pictures that are snuck out. As well, 'slavish' pictures of paintings cannot claim their own copyright, so I suppose that means they are PD --Zeizmic 17:25, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

From the FAQs section of the British Museum:

Q: Can I use a camera? A:Photography with flash and video recording is permitted in most galleries for private purposes only, using hand held equipment. source: http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/aboutus/faqs/faqs1_4.html# ny156uk 17:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm. I don't like the sound of that 'for private purposes only'. I've emailed the British Museum Visitor Information to ask them to clarify whether that means pictures can be put on Misplaced Pages as Public Domain images. Skittle 22:35, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

D'oh! Delivery of the email failed. Anyone else want to try? Skittle 23:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Just a couple of points. First, the copyright notices on the web site (at least, the ones I saw) are entirely about the images on the web site, and thus irrelevant. Second, if the museum rules prohibit you from photographing something that is itself in the public domain, it doesn't necessarily mean that the museum owns the copyright. I say "not necessarily"; I am no expert in copyright law or museum law in Britain or anywhere else. I'm only saying that the situation is complicated. --Anonymous, January 8, 00:37 (UTC).

IANAL, and this is not legal advice, but when I looked into this issue in the early days of Misplaced Pages I got the distinct impression that museum have the unfortunate habit of claiming intellectual property rights that the law provided, at most, rather scanty support to. --Robert Merkel 06:34, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

New Article

How long does it take a new article to post and what is the process? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The Hartz Mountain Corporation (talk • contribs) 17:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

It takes effect immediately, just like the post you just made. Of course, depending on how awesome the new article is, it could get deleted just as speedily.V-Man737 17:16, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

See Help:Starting a new page for help, and Misplaced Pages:Notability for when something is considered notable enough to have an article. Cheers, Dar-Ape 17:24, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

There is sometimes a delay, usually only a few seconds, either at Misplaced Pages's end or at your end. Try reloading the page to get the updated version. In some cases, you may also need to clear your cache. StuRat 18:57, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

...which can be done with a quick Shift-F5 on the page in question --froth 20:31, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

mobile phone top up in USA

How can i top up my vodafone mobile while in the USA using a top up voucher purchased in Britain? I have tried dialling 2345 but cannot get through on cingular or t-mobile. I would appreciate any help. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.151.122.195 (talk) 17:14, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

I'm not sure that it will be possible. Prepaid mobile accounts are unusual in the United States. People typically are billed on a monthly basis for their phone use over the preceding month. Also, Vodafone does not have a retail presence in the United States. Their customer service number in the UK will almost certainly not work in the United States, where four-digit phone numbers are virtually unheard of. (Most mobile phone companies use 611 for customer relations. You might try that and see what you get, if anything.) If you go to Vodafone's website, they seem to be partnered with Verizon as their retail provider in the United States. I'm not sure that your UK plan will be valid in the United States, I doubt that you will be able to top it up, and you may simply have to purchase a new account and SIM card here. Marco polo 19:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

New word

Hi WIKI... I HAVE TRIED MANY TIMES TTTOOOO LOG IN... B-U-T IT ALWAYS SAYS THIS NAME IS NOT REGISTERED..W-H-A-T IS W-R-O-N-G..

I WISH TO SEND A NEW WORD TO THE DICTIONARY... SINCE 2004... "PERSONALIZATIONS" WHICH WAS COINED FRON PERSONALIZED & AMORTIZATION...

THIS MEANS: MAKE BALANCE REDUCTION PAYMENTS TO YOUR EXISTING MORTGAGE WITHOUT INCURRED INTEREST... Tricky Dicky LAW in 1972... after making the current mortgage payment each month ANY ADDITIONAL payments to the existing BALANCE reduces that existing balance by the B.A.L (Balance Reduction Payment), thus the full payment is applied to the balance without any interest incurred... thus the full amount is subtracted from the balance... to produce a NEW BALANCE.

No need to use all caps. I would add that word to Wiktionary: . It isn't necessary to login to do so, as far as I know. StuRat 18:48, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you are trying to login using your Misplaced Pages account on Wiktionary? That isn't possible - yet. You have to re-register at each project (often you can use the same name.) Rmhermen 20:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, personalization seems to be a bit older than 1972, and means something a bit more mundane. Of course I'm sure it's a homonym. V-Man737 00:13, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Passenger capacity of cruise liner lifeboats?

I saw a picture of the liner Queen Mary 2 on Misplaced Pages and noticed that the port side showed only 10 lifeboats (I imagine the same number as on the starboard side). That set me to wondering what capacity each lifeboat has. In searching the web, I came across a regulation taken from the Canada Shipping Regs. and noticed the requirement that each lifeboat be able to carry 37 people, meaning the 20 lifeboats on QM2 would only be able to carry 740 people, not nearly enough to save the entire crew and passenger list. So what is the fully laden capacity of a modern on-board lifeboat, and where are they all stowed? And for good measure, how frequently are the crew trained in their use - in all weather conditions? Thanks. ps I am aware that QM2 is not a Canadian Registered Ship. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.241.235 (talk) 19:47, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

Here's a page on the Carnival Miracle cruise ship that indicates it's got 12 lifeboats fitting 150 people each, six tender/lifeboats for 150 people each, and 52 inflatable life rafts with capacity of 52 each, for a total capacity of 4,520. Its passenger capacity, according to that page, is 2,680, with a crew complement of 961. So, those lifeboats should be fairly roomy! The US Coast Guard provides that consumer fact sheet with information on safety; I can't find specifics on training requirements at present, however. Cheers! Tony Fox (arf!) 21:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

• The lifeboats aren't roomy -- if you need to be in one, it's going to jammed and uncomfortable, but better than drowning. The relevant quote from the CG fact sheet: Modern cruise ships carry a variety of survival craft. Passengers are invariably assigned to lifeboats or similar survival craft. The total capacity of all the survival craft on board will exceed the total number of persons on the vessel). In other words: passengers get lifeboats; crew get inflatable rafts (and there are probably several dozen on board the ship.) --jpgordon

I know that the cost guard (in the US) requires a complete check of the safety procedure on cruse ships at least once a year. From my own observations this includes a simulated evacuation with the life boats. It also includes simulated fire drills in multiple parts of the ship. Including theatrical smoke. :-) S.dedalus 23:59, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the above helpful and informative responses. You Wikipedians never cease to amaze me. Keep it up!

A while back when I was on a cruise ship and we had lifeboat drill (done while still in port, and for passengers only; crew had a separate drill), my wife and I looked at the boat and could not believe it could seat the number of people it was supposed to hold. It would at best be extremely crowded, which also means it would be slow to load. --Anonymous, January 9, 00:42 (UTC).

Too many people on the server? :P Vitriol 01:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

From now on you shall be called "VitriLOL." V-Man737 06:54, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Laptop vs. Desktop

Hey, I'm looking for information on how laptop sales are competing with desktop sales. I heard that this year will be the first year most people buy laptops but I can't find any article to back that up.

Thanks. - Pyro19 20:56, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Here are a couple of articles on the topic . They don't confirm exactly what you say, but BusinessWeek cites a NPD Group study that said through October desktop sells fell 5% while laptops sells were up 35%. I did find this Survey: Notebooks Surpass Desktop Sales For First Time however its dated 8/19/05. —Mitaphane _talk 22:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I doubt that's very reliable since you cannot count the number of desktops just by sales figure. For example I can buy CPU at shop A and motherboard in shop B and ram in Shop C etc. to build my new computer and yet I have not bought a complete system from any of the shops and thus on paper my computer doesn't exist. At best the sales figure only counts the pre-made computers and thus putting desktops at a disadvantage here. --antilived 05:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll bet that the computers built by end-users from components don't even amount to statistical noise in the grand question of laptops versus desktops. Atlant 13:58, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Then how can the numerous independant computer stores and newegg and whatnot survive? --antilived 22:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. I am not the first person to go home-built in this day and age, and there are 'screwdriver shops' that will build a system for sale that are essentially local shops that sell built computers. Most "enthusiast" users end up building thier own computer so as to control what components are in the computer, maximize performance in relation to cost, or simply get the best that can be built with current technology. It is a market large enough to have companies make 'enthusiast' products such as motherboards with better overclocking options in order to cater to demand. Robovski 00:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Pertaining to the ref desk

Whenever I enter a ref desk, it gives me an archive of it instead of the actual desk. Why? Thank you. Ilikefood 21:16, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Some of the days are archived before they are removed completely from the main page. It's nothing to worry about. --24.147.86.187 21:47, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that's called transclusion, and the goal is to keep the page down to a reasonable size without actually deleting material until the discussion has ended. If you SHIFT-CLICK or CONTROL-CLICK on "edit", most browsers will open a new edit window or tab on the archived section and leave the old page as is, unmolested. StuRat 22:18, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Martial Art - Niyuddha-kride

OK i'll ask again,

I've seen 2 different descriptions of this martial art, where one describes it as a type of wrestling Fighting arts of India and the other as a type of striking art Misplaced Pages - Niyuddha-kride . As I have limited resources, it would be muchly apprecited if someone could give me clear infomation or some links to this art, as much as possible too ;). Thankyou —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kachi (talk • contribs) 01:04, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

Horst Tube Submarines

Does any one know where I can get info on the Horst Tube, used in submaries by the Germans in ww11. This tube completely covered the propellor of the submarine, to increase speed or thrust. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Garyrich (talk • contribs) 02:44, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

I note that you've also posted this question on the Science reference desk. Please decide which reference desk you wish to post this question upon, and delete it from the other(s).

Atlant 14:00, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure that's what they were called? I can't find any mentions. Proto::► 16:00, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I looked everywhere for ducted propeller configurations, but can only find them for tugboats. They are only good for low-speed, high-thrust work. --Zeizmic 23:41, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Would that make them "Horst vessels"? Edison 00:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Finding some info on a ship

Hellow, i am looking for a ship called the USS Burias. My grandfather was on that ship. His nane and ranke, Seaman 2nd class Franklin J Simmons. I would like to know moer info on the ship he was on? Thank you Harold D Ogilvie Jr. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Harold Ogilvie (talk • contribs) 07:06, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

Have a look here, Harold . You may be able to get more information for your grandfather in the linked veterans info and crew reference pages. Clio the Muse 10:17, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

January 9

yogas

how can yogas be dangerous if done without proper guidance? Chirag111 12:41, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

If you don't know what you are doing, you can strain or tear muscles or tendons, dislocate bones, or herniate parts of your abdomen, including the intervertebral discs in your back. These injuries can be painful, debilitating, and even life-threatening. Here is a web site explaining the importance of finding a qualified instructor. Marco polo 15:40, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

US clothing retailers

I've noticed that a number of US clothing retailers - such as American Eagle, for example - are covered by wikipedia articles. In addition to the standard biographical information of the company, however, it would be interesting and endlessly useful to have current research on companies' labor practices and work/wage standards, both at outlets in the US as well as factories abroad. This information would be helpful in allowing consumers to more effectively choose brands that participate in fairer trade. Is there any way that wikipedia could solicit input from knowledgeable individuals with regard to this question, perhaps generating a network of behind-the-scenes investigative information on the practices of US corporations? Many thanks. Jason Hickel Department of Anthropology University of Virginia —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.189.48.181 (talk) 17:49, 9 January 2007 (UTC).

Probably not. Misplaced Pages requires published verifiable sources. Rmhermen 19:01, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

WP:NOR and a slew of notability guidelines would apply if you mean using wikipedia as a base of operations in discovering their labor practices. Find some sources, though, and add that info to our articles if you want --froth 20:29, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Sympathetic as the goal may be, Misplaced Pages is an effort to produce an encyclopedia. Investigative information gathering is not part of that. Also, we are globally oriented, and should not single out US corporations. If there is verifiable information, published by reliable sources, there is no objection to adding that in a balanced way to articles. So if you have such sources... There is no objection to soliciting a network of editors who scout published reliable sources for such information with an aim of adding it to existing articles. Since we're all volunteers here, if you think this is endlessly useful, why don't you set the first steps?  --Lambiam 22:17, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, while Misplaced Pages is not an appropriate venue for original research, you might consider setting up your own wiki with different guidelines where such information could be collected. --Robert Merkel 06:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Nantt Falls in Chile

I would like to know exactly where Nantt Falls are in Chile. My maiden name was Nantt, which is a German name, and I would like to know how the Falls got their name. Thank you

As for the first part of your question, the falls are apparently located in Palena Province, Los Lagos Region, Chile, probably along the the Rio Futaleufú, near the border with Argentina, near the Argentinian town of Trevelin. Marco polo 18:54, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

As for the second part of your question, many Germans settled in Chile during the 19th and early 20th century. It is likely that the falls are named after one of them. I'm not sure how you would uncover the details behind the name of this place without consulting printed (or even handwritten archival) sources in Chile. Marco polo 20:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

emergency ucas help

I have to apply on ucas this week, but have forgotten my username. It was given to me by the website, and is based on my name. Can anyone give me any idea what it would be? This is really important.Hidden secret 7 19:55, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

em.. how would we know what your name is?

Silly, it's a Hidden secret! V-Man737 06:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Have you tried the following:

http://www.ucas.com/apply/index.html# - click on student login - then "lost login details" - then enter your name and date of birth.

--Charlesknight 20:05, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Now why didn't I think of that?Hidden secret 7 20:13, 9 January 2007 (UTC) It might work. If I can get the rest of the internet to work.

O, are you the person who gets the Internet to work? So it's not Al Gore then? OK, I have a complaint: it is sometimes rather slow over here. :)  --Lambiam 22:06, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

That isn't what I meant. And it did help, I now know my username, and have almost finished applying. :)Hidden secret 7 13:28, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone else know about Uncyclopedia?

It seems like a satiracal portrayal of wiki... the URL is http://uncyclopedia.org/Main_Page What's the deal? - Anonymous User

Yeah, I know about them; that's where I tell vandals to go. ;-) Uncyclopedia is a parody of Misplaced Pages, read the article if you want. | AndonicO 21:25, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Please don't. Vandals belong at Encyclopedia Dramatica. Uncyclopedia is only for people with a sense of humor. --Carnildo 21:39, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Of course we know about Uncyclopedia. It's a satirical parody of Misplaced Pages. Or rather, as they claim, Misplaced Pages is a parody of Uncyclopedia. ;) — Kieff 21:28, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

N Ireland/Scotland currency

I understand that Norethern Ireland and Scotland currently issue banknotes via private banks that are officially only used in their respective areas. If someone however tries to use a Scottish or Northern Ireland pound note in say London, will it be accepted by a merchant or bank? Also what about Gibraltar notes? EdwinHJ | Talk

In my personal experience, if you try to spend a Scottish note in a supermarket that is part of a large chain, it is usually accepted. If you try to spend it in a small, privately-owned shop, they won't accept it. And it all depends on how confident the person behind the till is that it is a genuine note (which tends to depend on whether they've seen one before), and how great an impact that one note would have on their income. I think banks tend to accept them. Bear in mind that this is all in my personal experience asw a consumer; hopefully others will bring more to this. Skittle 22:56, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this is my understanding too, though I suspect that it would be a very small outlet indeed that would refuse to accept Scottish notes, which, incidentally, are issued by three separate banks. I do not think that Gibraltar notes would be accepted for direct payment in the United Kingdom. Clio the Muse 23:21, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Scottish and Northern Irish banknotes are technically not legal tender anywhere in the UK - not even in Scotland or Ulster - they are instead promissory notes. They are only used as money because they are commonly understood to be money. (Peculiarly, no banknotes are actually legal tender in Scotland and Northern Ireland - except the Bank of England one pound notes when they existed!) See Paper money of the pound sterling for more details. In practise - as the previous responders have noticed - it varies. Though in my experience in larger English cities, like London, most places will accept Scottish notes. Its small towns and villages that you have a problem, especially outwith larger chainstores. Pretty much all banks will accept Scottish and Northern Irish notes, though, even those abroad (again, in my experience). The Gibraltar pound is actually a different currency (with a different ISO 4217) and thus is not legal tender in the UK. Unlike Scottish and Northern Irish notes, they are not typically accepted in stores. However, our article notes (no pun intended) that, "the fact that the coins are almost identical to UK £1 coins, they can be found in circulation in the UK fairly frequently" Banks will, however, exchange the Gibraltar pound for Sterling at 1:1. Rockpocket 07:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

A few years ago, I worked in a small petrol station (Americans, read Gas station) in rural SouthWest England. We accepted Scottish notes, but not Northern Irish - nobody ever tried with Gibraltar notes (they did Gibraltar pound coins, but I think anybody would just treat them as a normal one). --Mnemeson 17:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Do the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands have their own currencies? User:Zoe|(talk) 18:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Zoe, they do, although there is no common 'Channel Islands' currency as such (just as there is no common government). On this please see the Manx pound, Jersey pound and Guernsey pound. Clio the Muse 20:03, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Clio. User:Zoe|(talk) 21:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I have sometimes been given gibraltar and channel island pound coins in change ( I live in southern England) and find it very hard to use them in vending machines, the best trick is to buy somthing which costs £3ish and lump it in with other coins, that way nobody will notice. If there is a bank nearby then take it there. Notes I'm not too sure about, personally I would never accept a scottish note, if it hasn't got the queens head on its not legal tender.I didn't know that N.I had there own notes, I have never seen a Gibraltar or channel island note so don't know much about them. I would suggest a bank or bureaeu de changeAMX 19:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

As an Englishman, until recently living in London, and still working there, I can confirm that Scottish banknotes tend to be accepted by all shops, and occasionally you get them cropping up in your change. Ulster notes also tend to be accepted, but are much, much rarer. If you go to Northern England, close to the Scottish border, Scottish notes are commonplace. Channel Island banknotes (really separate Jersey and Guernsey banknotes), Manx currency and Gibraltar banknotes would not be accepted. (Similarly, no doubt, with the even rarer Falkland Island and St Helena banknotes.) Bank of England banknotes are accepted in all those places, though I believe St Helena asks you to change your Bank of England banknotes to St Helena notes free of charge on arrival.

There are three banks in Scotland that issue notes - The Bank of Scotland, The Royal Bank of Scotland and the Clydesdale Bank. Four issue them in Northern Ireland - the Ulster Bank, the Northern Bank, the Allied Irish Bank and the Bank of Ireland. It is the Governments of the Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey, the Falkland Islands and St Helena that issue their banknotes (and coinage). If you want to see what the banknotes look like, go to banknoteworld.com.

The different notes for Scotland and Ulster are, however, a problem when people leave the UK (although, to be fair, I guess some Republic of Ireland banks must be accept Northern Irish currency). Bureaux de change overseas refuse to accept Scottish and Ulster notes, meaning that Scots and Ulstermen often need to go to a bank to change notes to Bank of England notes before jetting off (which will be done at par and for free, but it's a hassle none the less). Recently when the Scottish football team played Lithuania (or Latvia, I'm not 100% sure which), there was a special arrangement allowing Scottish fans to exchange Scottish currency in Lithuania. But this was very much a one off.

There is no separate coinage for Scotland or Northern Ireland. There is for Gibraltar, the Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey, the Falkland Islands and St Helena. This coinage, although appearing different, is all to the same size and weight (apart from the odd St Helenan coin), and so is readily accepted by vending machines. I'm surprised AMX had any difficulty using them. jguk 09:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

January 10

Error in Barbara Tuchman article

The error is the last entry in the list of her books, in our Barbara Tuchman article. The last book listed is "Fin de Siecle, a novel", for which I can find no evidence. My next step would be to learn how to check for the book's existence at the Library of Congress, which I'm not going to take time to learn now. If someone wants to leave a message for me on my own talk page, feel free -- but I'm not likely to check back for it for weeks or months.

If the Library of Congress verifies the existence of all 11 of her actual books, but not the book which our WP article erroneously lists -- and which lots of websites quote, making WP's error much more serious -- then one could safely remove this book from the WP article. Or WP experts could judge whether the originator of this error is a reliable contributor.

I do not like WP making errors like this one, but I'm not going to remove the book myself without absolute proof as above.For7thGen 00:09, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Worldcat is probably a better place to look than the Library of Congress, though i can't find that title in either. Maybe this is the source of the confusion, from Fin de siècle:

A reference text regarding the 19th century fin de siècle is Barbara Tuchman's The Proud Tower.

—eric 00:27, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I have been unable to find a single web page among some 171000 Google hits for "Barbara Tuchman" listing Fin de Siecle as a novel, except for pages that were clearly derived from the Misplaced Pages article. None of the major on-line booksellers knows about it. I did find several sources that appear informed to me and generally well referenced, that list all 11 other books mentioned in our article, but no Fin de Siecle: , , , , .  --Lambiam 04:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Clearly the evidence for this book's non-existence far outweighs the evidence for its existence. In the spirit of being bold, I've removed it. JackofOz 04:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

As the author of the edit which introduced the apparently apocryphal Fin de Siecle into the document, I can only contend that it was an amendment made in good faith, and hope that it has not unduly inconvenienced anyone along the way. In all probability I garnered the information from a 2nd or 3rd party bibliography or an article I was reading somewhere along the line and I am pretty sure I will eventually turn up a reference to where I got it from, but this may take some time. I agree entirely with its excision until such time as its existence or otherwise can be definitively determined. Sjc 06:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Bear Grylls vs Les Stroud

Who is the better surviorman, Bear Grylls or Les Stroud? Bear is younger and does more dramatic stunts but Les is an expert in cold weather wilderness survival tactics. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.157.110.11 (talk) 00:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

apples and oranges, my friend. This is entirely dependent on the situations they are put in. Of course, if you asked whether Les Stroud or Punky Brewster was the better survivalist, I'd put my money on Punky. V-Man737 02:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Ludgate Street

Hi All, I'm researching Ludgate Street, London, which now ceases to exist, could anyone please tell me when it vanished, it's been very frustrating as there are plenty of references to the street, but practically no information. Yours in Anticipation, Hughie.

Our Ludgate Hill article states that Ludgate Street was a former name, and links to this entry from A Dictionary of London (1918) saying the same.—eric 01:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

MP3 Downloads

What is the best website for Free MP3 Downloads? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.210.49.97 (talk) 00:40, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

A small number of bands release their music for free; commercial music is not legally available for free. --froth 03:08, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Peer-to-Peer clients are usually used for "free" mp3s. --Proficient 05:47, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

He did not ask where is the best place to steal intellectual property. Stealing is not "free stuff". Aren't there some sites where bands offer their music for free to get exposure? I know myspace is one. --Justanother 14:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

If you are a university student, ruckus.com is free, with all the newest music. Just provide a valid university email address.140.180.21.169 18:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

420

what does 420 mean re: marijuana

See 420 (cannabis culture). — Kieff 02:58, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Dogs

Why do dogs have tails? Thanks in advance for your help.

Patricia CappsGrampati 04:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Natural selection for some reason or another. If I'd had to take a stab at why nature selected that trait I would imagine because it allowed them to sense things or communicate (most dogs seem to have a built in trait to wag their tails around humans). —Mitaphane _talk 04:45, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd agree, with the slight modification that they are probably more vestigial than, say, a cat's tail (balance, etc.), not to mention the humor of watching those little dogs with big tails (the tail wags the dog)! V-Man737 05:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

In the case of most dogs, the best answer to this question would be: because they were bred that way. Skarioffszky 14:43, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Tails weren't bred into dogs. --24.147.86.187 15:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

No, but dogs look the way they do because breeders decided they wanted them to look like that. If humanity had decided dogs shouldn't have tails, their tails would probably have disappeared by now. Skarioffszky 15:58, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Dogs have tails primarily because the animals they are descended from have tails. In fact almost all vertebrates have tails — they are a pretty basic way of providing balance. Even humans have a bone of a long lost tail. I'm not sure there are any vertebrates which have no trace of a tail. --24.147.86.187 15:28, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I think if we had tails, that would be my favorite vestigial organ! Imagine the cultural implications, not to mention the effects it would have on the world of dating and courtship! V-Man737 16:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

If the tails were slightly less vestigial, they would be interesting to put to use in sexual play... =S 惑乱 分からん 17:54, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

According to vestigial tail, "The longest human tail on record belonged to a twelve-year-old boy living in what was then French Indochina, which measured nine inches (229 mm)". StuRat 04:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Been reading Nightcrawler fanfics? XD

Aaaahh, teleportation powers... =D Naaah, I just got a dirty mind on my own; I'd guess... 惑乱 分からん 20:31, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't agree with Because they were bred that way. Maybe tails were not bred 'out' of dogs, but neither were eyes and ears, but to say they have eyes and ears because they were bred that way is a bit of a stretch. They have a tail for the same reason any animal has a tail, perhaps the tail article has some answers. Vespine 21:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, if you put it that way, I wonder what the market would be for a dog born without eyes? V-Man737 22:04, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The way i see it. There are seven charcteristics of life. One of them is adaptation. Species adapt though years of DNA being passed down. Perhaps somewhere along the line in history dogs needed tails for protection or something and that has passed down though the generations. It is the same as y do giraffes have long necks..they need them to reach tall trees. But if there were no more tall trees in the world the gene would still be passed down because it is in their genetic code for adaptation. i may be crazy but its just a theory.--Kittycat rox 23:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Correct negative designation...?

The negative of a photographic print is called a negative but is a negative the reverse or the inverse or the mirror or the reflection or the complement or the opposite, etc. of the print's color and intensity? -- 71.100.10.48 06:05, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Of these words, complement seems to fit best. In the RGB system, with values ranging from 0 to 1, the negative corresponding to positive (r, g, b) is more or less (1−r, 1−g, 1−b), so the value of each component of the negative's colour is the complement (with respect to 1) of the positive's component. If you use HSV, it is not so clear, though.  --Lambiam 06:41, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The hardy boys

I would like to know why only the first 48 original copies of the hardy boys series is available on the internet. How can i get the rest of the series? I have the first 48. If i try to buy the rest it will cost me a fortune. It is not available in our library as well. What shall i do?Th3 4dv!s3r 08:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean by "available on the internet"? Do you mean that they can be downloaded, or that they can be bought from online bookstores? If you're looking for physical copies of books that are out of print, you'll have to try secondhand places like eBay and Abebooks. The price you'll pay depends on how rare they are. If you just want to read them, and you're not bothered about actually owning them, you can still get them through your library even if they're not currently held by the library. Most libraries will find copies of books that are held in other libraries - you can borrow them that way. --Richardrj 09:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The Hardy Boys, fwiw. There seem to be rather a lot of books... --Tagishsimon (talk)

Real Estate Market-define distressed

A raging debate in our Ohio community begs the answer to: At what percentage of For Sale Housing constitutes a "distressed" and/or a "buyer's" market? Also, what percentage of vacant housing units (including apartments) constitutes the above? Finally, what percent of housing units vacant and For Rent constitues a "glut"? I'd really appreciate referrals to reputable written resources that I can safely quote in the media.Searcher1948 14:46, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Looking through some recent news articles, I can't find anything that can be referenced. Most articles just quote heresay, from spokesmen. Some are quoting new home buyers that are buying houses at a discount, and some are mentioning new housing starts. It generally appears that US housing prices have hit bottom and are trending up again (but don't quote me on this! :). --Zeizmic 15:03, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

A buyer's market is when a real-estate agent wants you to believe you can't sell your house for a better price. A seller's market is when a real-estate agent wants you to believe you can't buy a house for a better price. They will say one thing to their client, turn around, and say the other thing to a prospective buyer. They can get away with this because the terms are entirely subjective.  --Lambiam 16:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Math Problem

I am not looking for an answer to my home work i've been out of school for twenty years anyhow heres the question or problem i've been asked numerous times but have never figuered out the answer to there are 3 birds a blue a green and a yellow one the blue bird cost .50 cents the green bird cost $3 dollars the yellow ones are $10 dollars you have $100 dollars to spend you need to buy 100 birds you must have a least one of ever colour and spend exactly and only $100 dollars there is only one way and or answer to this but no matter what i do i cannot come up with an aswer that works

I would start by forming a pair of simultaneous equations. Let x be the cost of a blue bird ($0.50), y the cost of a green bird ($3) and z the cost of a yellow bird ($10). Also, let a, b and c be the amounts of blue, green and yellow birds needed, respectively. Now the simultaneous equations:

${\displaystyle {\begin{cases}ax+by+cz=100\\a+b+c=100\end{cases}}{\begin{cases}4b-a+18c=0\\a+b+c=100\end{cases}}}$

${\displaystyle {\begin{cases}a=94\\b=1\\c=5\end{cases}}}$

Check:

${\displaystyle 94\times \$0.50+\$3+5\times \$10=\$100}$

In English: Buy 94 blue birds, one green bird and 5 yellow birds. By the way, we also have a mathematics Reference Desk. –mysid☎ 19:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm curious. How did you solve this equation? There are 3 unknowns but there are only 2 equations. So it's not possible unless you start guessing on one of the unknowns. 202.168.50.40 00:04, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Maybe I'm being thick, but where did -1, 4 and 18 come from for that equation? Skittle 00:56, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm also a bit confused as to where the figures cam from. BenC7 01:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Probably by guessing, yes. The article to read here is Diophantine equation. --Anonymous, January 11, 2007, 04:09 (UTC).

The approach by mysid is a bit of a detour. It is simpler to start by eliminating one variable from the two equations. The resulting Diophantine equation in two variables is not hard to solve; it is easy to see once you get to that stage that the extra requirement that the values of the unknowns must be natural numbers leaves only a few possibilities, each of which you can try.  --Lambiam 04:54, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Missing steps:

${\displaystyle 0.5a+3b+10c=100}$

${\displaystyle a+b+c=100}$

${\displaystyle \Rightarrow 0.5a+3b+10c=a+b+c}$

${\displaystyle \Rightarrow -0.5a+2b+9c=0}$

${\displaystyle \Rightarrow 4b-a+18c=0}$

${\displaystyle a=100-b-c}$

${\displaystyle \Rightarrow 5b+19c-100=0}$

Since b and c are integers, c must be a multiple of 5 (because 5b and 100 are multiples of 5). From conditions of problem, 1 ≤ c ≤ 9 (remember, must have at least one bird of each colour), so c=5. Values of b and a follow easily.Gandalf61 13:45, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

How was the city of Cincinnati Founded?

Hello,

My father would like to know how Cincinnati was founded, who founded it, and information on this person/ group of people. I looked at the city's website and Misplaced Pages's entry for this info, but I could not find anything. Can you help me? 66.162.79.220 18:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)Paul

See History of Cincinnati, Ohio. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:34, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

wireless router

i'm moving this question here since im not getting much help from the computing section. what exactly is a wireless router? How does it work and where do i hook it up? please help soon.

If you had read the articles you were linked to, you would know that "a router is a computer networking device that forwards data packets across a network toward their destinations, through a process known as routing." A wireless router does this without having to be hooked up to al the computers it's routing to. You hook it to your computer, per the instructions you recieve with the router. If you want to know more, please read the article. It's there for a reason and you're supposed to search first. XD —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.198.112.210 (talk) 20:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

And if you don't get an answer in the proper Ref Desk, you're even less likely to get it on the wrong one. StuRat 22:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

UK County Abbreviations - Explanation Please

Can anyone please explain the reason or history behind the following UK county abbreviations?

Why is :

Shropshire abbreviated to Salop,
Hampshire abbreviated to Hants - where did the T come from?
Oxfordshire abbreviated to Oxon - likewise the N?

Are there any other strange county abbreviations in the British Isles? Thanks. --Adscm 20:41, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Apparently, Shropshire used to be called Salop in historical times. If you try to say SalopShire quickly, what does it sound like?--Light current 21:03, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Did you not read our article?

The short form of the name, often used in postal addresses, is Hants. Hampshire is often abbreviated in written form to Hants and which sometimes gives rise to puzzlement. The abbreviated form is derived from the Old English Hantum plus Scir (meaning a district governed from the settlement now known as Southampton) and the Anglo-Saxons called it Hamtunschire. At the time of the Domesday Book (1086) this was compressed to Hantescire.

--Light current 21:14, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Oxonia is Latin for Oxford --Light current 21:08, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

(After edit conflict) The Old English name for Shropshire was 'Scrobbesbyrigcir'. Finding this impossible to pronounce the Normans changed it to 'Salopesberia', shortened to Salop.

Similarly the Old English for Hampshire was 'Hantumschir'. When the Doomsday Book was compiled in 1086 the Normans (the French again!) had changed this to 'Hanteschire', hence Hants.

Oxon comes from the Latinised form Oxonia

I'm sure there must be other odd abbreviations, though I can think of none offhand. Clio the Muse 21:19, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah Clio I think I just said all that so why do you find it necessary to repeet it?--Light current 21:28, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

As you see, edit conflit. I don't mean to stand on your toes, L c, but the explanations, though close, don't quite overlap. Clio the Muse 21:32, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

OK Ill let you off 8-). Anyway next time you might consider putting (edcon) before your reply to let others know.--Light current 21:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The full name of Hampshire was "Southamptonshire" until 1959. Sam Blacketer 23:52, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Logos

Hello, I have been guided to your site in an attempt to get information that wikimedia was not able to obtain. That is how I was able to contact your group. Please read on and if you can help me in obtaining this information. Thank you in advance for trying to help me. Best Regards, Scott Whting

Dear (email removed),

Thank you for your mail.

(email removed) wrote:

> Hello, > The logo that ABC had produced for WWOS sometime in 95 is the one I'm > interested in. Can you tell me how many of these pennants or flags were made? > Are > they still for sale and what is the cost? If you do not have this information > > can you point me to someplace or someone who may be able to answer these > questions? > Thank you in advance for you help. > Best Regards, > Scott Whiting > >

I am afraid that the Wikimedia Foundation is not able to help you with this request. As an organization that relies entirely on volunteer work, Wikimedia doesn't have the resources to research questions unrelated to its projects.

However, there is a page on the English Misplaced Pages where various volunteers try to answer questions such as yours, called the Reference Desk <http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reference_desk>. Instructions for using the Reference Desk are on this page.

Though there is no guarantee that they can provide an answer, they are often able. Please be specific in your question so that others can better assist you! Sorry I couldn't be of more help; good luck in finding the answer to your question.

Yours sincerely, Scott MacDonald

-- Misplaced Pages - http://en.wikipedia.org --- Disclaimer: all mail to this address is answered by volunteers, and responses are not to be considered an

Removed email addresses from the above. Vespine 21:37, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Further, you may have more luck if you be a little more specific, what's The logo that ABC had produced for WWOS sometime in 95 ? What ABC are you talking about, what's WWOS? Why on earth do you need to know how many were made? Is it something that is even likely to be on sale? Where could they be bought? Maybe you could contact the retailer who might be able to give you the stockist? Have you tried contacting the ABC? Surely they would be able to answer these questions? Good luck. Vespine 21:41, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Maybe American Broadcasting Company? Flattering that we're so well-known! --froth 00:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

More likely Australian Broadcasting Corporation.  --Lambiam 00:49, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

It looks as if it is in fact the American ABC. See Wide World of Sports (US TV series). There is/was an Australian TV series by the same name, but broadcast by Australia's Channel 9 rather than the Australian ABC. As for the pennants, have you tried looking on EBay? Or perhaps you could contact Disney's Wide World of Sports, which seems to be the successor to the program, and ask if they have any old pennants lying around. Marco polo 02:55, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Werewolf/dragon legends

I am a writer having some difficulties with my story. I am trying to find legends of dragons turning into werewolves- not fan-fiction, but old legends from Britain, China, etc. I am not sure if a legend like this has ever existed. However, it is what my story is about and I have writer's block right now, so I thought if I had a legend to base some of the events on, it might give me some ideas...(I am mainly having difficulties introducing a character in a scene, and I was hoping to find a myth that would solve my problem.)The dragon sometimes is forced to turn into a werewolf in a werewolf-like curse. When changing to wolf form, the dragon first morphs into human and then proceeds like a regular werewolf. After so many hours, he changes back into a dragon again. I have figured out why this happens, but I simply do not know how to introduce this character to another character. That's really what I need.

Anyway, if you know of any legends, or any websites with these kind of legends, please let me know.

Thank you!!! Your comments are immensely helpful!!!!!

70.238.177.209 23:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

(While warning that I am not an expert in this area) Have you tried looking into the Matter of Britain? There is a lot to go through before you find stuff about dragons, but I'd say it's worth at least a glance. V-Man737 00:09, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Nothing I've seen, from a quick glance around Werewolf, Shapeshifting, Lycanthropy, Therianthropy (mythology), European dragon, Chinese dragon, Dragon nor from a google search for dragon turn werewolf, gives me any indication that the dragon to werewolf transform ever entered into legend. What makes you think it might have done? --Tagishsimon (talk)

Since a werewolf is a man-wolf, it seems unlikely that a dragon would turn into one. I mean, a dragon turning into a wolf, or a man, or turning into one and then the other, maybe. But specifically turning into a werewolf seems very unlikely. Could you tell us more about what you need? Skittle 00:39, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

There are many modern stories (not fan fiction, but fantasy fiction) of weredragons. You might find something at a local fantasy-type book store. --Charlene 10:04, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

There are tales of dragons that can turn into humans and there are other tales of the werewolf - you want a synthesis of the two. Perhaps a dragon while in human form was bitten by a werewolf and contracted lyncanthropy (which for whatever reasons will affect the dragon, at least in his human form). This would get you what you want. Another approach would be through other storytelling devices such as spells/curses (which can work any way the storyteller wants) or (as I am reading a lot of Terry Pratchett lately) perhaps you could borrow the concept of "morphologically unstable" which basically means that the character in question can change shape, perhaps outside of the character's control. Robovski 00:43, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

January 11

MBA

I have just completed my High School from Ontario and now its time to move to college. I am intended to choose Business program. but before that I want some knowledge about this course and professional scope for this program. what are the courses included in this program.

Well, looking at our MBA and its sources is a good start. If you're curious about what classes you would be taking I would take a look at colleges you are interested in attending and inquiring them about their MBA programs. A look at different programs should give you an idea what the average MBA classes are like. —Mitaphane _talk 06:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

An MBA is a master's degree, and are only available to those who have already completed an undergraduate degree. Much of the time, they are taken by people who already have substantial work experience and are looking to move up into a management role.

If business is your bag, maybe consider an undergraduate degree in economics or accounting. Frankly, I'd rather remove my own teeth with a grinder, but I'm not you...--Robert Merkel 06:13, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Edentulism is for you! V-Man737 06:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

That depends on what area of "business" you want to get into and whether you're planning to study at a university or at a community college. (Note: Canadian university interviewers and future employers, who will be older than you, will likely prefer that you call university "university", not the American "college". Americanizing your vocabulary will work very much against you if you plan to remain in Canada.)

It's much easier to market a specialized B.Comm (in accounting, finance, marketing, human resources, or public relations) than a general degree in business. If you take a general B.Comm you'll be expected to study the above topics as well as English, law, political science, sociology, and most likely mathematics. If you're planning to go to university in Eastern Ontario you'll likely also need French. If you plan to work in a head office setting you'll need excellent written and spoken English and, in Eastern Ontario, excellent written and spoken French.

If you're planning to take a community college course in business administration, you'll probably study office procedures, human resources, bookkeeping, and basic corporate law. --Charlene 10:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Business is an area that is highly regarded. Primarily an undergraduate degree in business is pragmatic and gives you a broad range of opportunities for jobs. A graduate degree, such as an MBA underlines your skills and can give upper level management opportunities when you have more job experience. Business is probably the most general, and most useful degree of any you can pursue. Pretty much all business degree candidates get jobs out of school. This is in contrast to say psychology, sociology, anthropology, language, woman's studies, journalism or english degree cadidates who usually can't get a job with their degree, and go on to graduate studies, or get a job in a different field, often business. With a business degree you can work for a large corporation, or for the government, or for a small company, or be an entrepeur and start your own business, or anything in between. You can work in areas such management, marketing, sales, production, accounting, MIS (business computer systems), human resources, or operations. This wealth of opportunities pretty much guarantees you career opportunities. In addition to this, most business jobs, depending on area, have moderate to above average salaries right out of school, and through your career. The highest paying jobs available of all jobs are often CEO positions for a business. The only jobs paying more than CEO's are people who start and operate their own businesses. An job candidate with an MBA from a top school, with no experience can often start in the $60K range. Less well known schools may be in the $45K range. People with graduate degrees in some of the other areas mentioned above may still have problems finding jobs, and when they do, would be lucky to get close to $45K. Usually going on to a PhD, and a research and teaching can get them in the $60K range.

Careers that can pay better than business usually are other professional areas (M.B.A. is a professional degree) such as Law(J.D.), Medicine (M.D.,. D.D.S), Engineering (P.E.). Even so, some professinals in these areas are lucky to start in the $50-$60K range. Surgeons, and other areas of medicine can earn well above $100K, depending on the country. It is not uncommon for someone in Surgery or Radiology to make $500K or more per year, and up after starting work. But consider that those people have to have considerable expertise and talent, and have to go to school and train often for 6 to 12 years after their undergraduate 4-year degree. (often resulting in having school loans in the 100's of thousands of $.)

In summary, many people feel that business has more job opportunities in more diverse areas with solid career income, than any other area. Atom 14:22, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

U.S.. Constitutional issue

Would you please define The meaning in today's terms the meaning of this phrase taken from The U.S. Constitution, Artical III, Sec. 3 regards Congressional Power to declare the Punishment of Treason:

"... but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood ..."

What did this mean to the Founding Fathers stated in today's terms?Fjheart 04:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

From Article_Three_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_3:_Treason, "Punishment for treason may not "work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person" so convicted. The descendants of someone convicted for treason could not, as they were under English law, be considered "tainted" by the treason of their ancestor. Furthermore, Congress may confiscate the property of traitors, but that property must be inheritable at the death of the person convicted." Friday (talk) 04:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

How utterly sensible. Thank providence for the US Founding Fathers' sense. This from a Subject (not yet a citizen despite my forebears having lived here for 1000+ years) of Her Britannic Majesty - desperately awaiting a UK Constitution, and Citizenship.

A trivia question..

Some people said it resembled a bird house. It was a 20-inch square box, and when erected in Salt Lake City in 1920, it was the first of its kind in the world. What was it? Arun 59.95.40.118 05:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

A Google search turns up a number of results for stoplights. Dismas| 06:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Just curious... Does it have anything to do with Philo Farnsworth? V-Man737 06:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

the problem with traffic lights is that - though introduced for the first time in Salt Lake City - that was as early as 1912 - with the interconnected versions out by 1917. S0 1920 would not be the right year. Thanks a lot for the help: Dismas And V-man, No. I don't think it has anything to do with Phio.. too early a date for his time. Thanks for the help though Arun 59.95.40.118 10:47, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm guessing whoever asked Arun the question got it wrong. <snide>Probably got the info from Encyclopedia Brittanica.</snide>

>.<

Three-part hyphenated names

Okay, couldn't think of a better title. There are so many of these, "Suc-u-Bus" (from Starship Titanic) and... I can't remember more, but examples: Explode-o-Matic, Zap-o-Matic, etc etc. Do you get my drift? I am just wondering where do these names come from? WHo on earth came up with'em? Linguistically they seem extremely out of place! 213.161.190.228 10:38, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Good question. I'd like to know more. They are a /little/ like another form of words common to english, of triplets such as "let and hindrance", "will and testament" (and I can't remember more as I write), which I vaguely remember refer back to a time when french & english was spoken in england ... the phrases were made up of the english and the french word. "Belt and braces" would be another example, albeit not with the same derivation. Only reason I mention these is that they may have habituated us to talk in triplets. --Tagishsimon (talk)

I don't know who invented them, but the structure is quite-tmesis-tastic. meltBanana 13:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Seems to me to be a 1950s version of our modern buzzwords. V-Man737 01:19, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Not quite the same thing but similar is of course the prevalance of the TLA, or three letter acronym. Vespine 03:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Alumni yearbooks...

Would like to know how I can access yearbooks from Oxford University UK, for years 1965-1970? Thank you 11:24, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if these even exist in the same way that they do in the USA. If they do, they certainly won't be available online - you'd have to enquire at the university library. --Richardrj 11:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Most likely, if there are yearbooks, there'll be a seperate one for each Oxford College, so you may have to enquire at the specific college(s). Laïka 12:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

strength of A-level exams candidates?

does anyone know the number of A-level exams candidates? kindly give reference Is it the world's largest education board?

Related question: What is an "education board" in this context? Searching Misplaced Pages gave no obvious candidates. Rmhermen 16:50, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

OP Original poster possibly means examination board. A-level exams in England (for example) are set by several different boards, and a candidate can easily be sitting exams from two or more boards (in different subjects) at the same time. Gandalf61 17:45, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

a logo

i was trying to make a logo of a hostel. but i cannot think of any symbolic representation to signify that the logo alone can, to some extent, imply that its the logo of some hostel. what do you people say?

The international symbol for a hostel is a simple equilateral upright triangle, usually with some extra decoration added; in England and Wales for example, the triangle is green, with the letters "yha" underneath, so the "h" forms a tree trunk and the whole thing resembles a pine tree. I'd recommend having some variation on a triangle, such as a bed inside a triangle, or a knife and fork either side of a triangular plate. Laïka 12:29, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

On Ordnance Survey maps, the triangle is red for a YHA hostel. With the decline in the YHA network and the rise in the number of independent hostels, some maps show independent hostels in another colour. (I'm not sure how or whether the OS indicates independent hostels.) Either way, the triangle symbol seems to be universally understood.--Shantavira 15:03, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

The OS shows non-YHA hostels as pinky-red squares, actually, although the symbol represents any "bunk house, camping barn or other hostel". Laïka 15:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

The logo of the International Youth Hostel Federation, which has many Youth Hostel associations all over the world as members, can be seen here, under the name "Hostelling International". It is protected IP, so you cannot imitate it in a way that can lead to confusion, but the basic idea of an upside-down triangle by itself cannot be protected. Most national YHAs use this shared logo, while some have their own logo, like England & Wales (as mentioned above), Germany, and Pakistan, often used in conjunction with the international one.  --Lambiam 23:15, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages Editing, my IP Address Username

Whenever I make a change on Misplaced Pages, or answer a question here, it markes my IP address. What I have noticed, however, is that if I click on that IP address, it brings me to a page of topics I have supposible edited. I do not edit WikiPedia often at all, and I would like to know how I have so many edits. Is it possible that someone has the same IP as I do? Or should I assume that my ISP is cheap, and has a single IP address for all users? Thanks for your answers --- (No Username) January 11, at 8:39AM

You can assume that you have a shared IP but your ISP may have many such numbers. Some users get a random-ish IP each time they log in, making it hard for them to track their own contributions. Another good reason to get an account on Misplaced Pages. On a related note, we did, recently, block most access from a certain country when trying to block a single vandal so in some cases an ISP may have only one IP. (I forget which country it was.) Rmhermen 16:47, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Did you read the blue box at the top of User talk:207.69.138.12? EarthLink reassigns the IP address each time a User logs off. User:Zoe|(talk) 16:48, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

(The country was Qatar.)

Meanwhile, ask your computer what it thinks your IP address is. If it's different from the address being recorded on Wiki, then somewhere along the way, your messages are passing through a proxy server or at least NAT (Network address translation) and that's transforming your IP address, quite possibly into a shared IP address.

Atlant 17:52, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

The simple solution to this is to get a username and to log on before editing - something done automatically if you're using the same computer each time you do it. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Question/Rant

Why do some people reply to complaints or even criticism of someone's work with "Well, can you do any better?" Does being better than me at something automatically make someone good enough at it? For example, I can't drive a car, or any motor vehicle more powerful than a go-kart, to save my life. But if some bus driver at the bus I take to work every weekday botched up and I ended up lying in the ditch I'd sure as heck complain to the bus company. JIP | Talk 18:35, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

It's just a rhetorical device, a technique used to evoke an emotional response. Looks like it still works very well :) --Tagishsimon (talk)

I actually asked what sort of fallacy this was in the RDs before, it's somewhat of a reverse appeal to authority. Search around, you might find the thread. --Wooty Woot? contribs 03:30, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, specifically it's an ad hominem attack, which means attacking the person instead of their argument. In this case, the person is attacked based on their own inexperience in the field. StuRat 21:48, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Its like this thing with animals where they always compare animals to us, to show how much better they are, but they aren't, it's just the way they are and the way we are :(

.50 BMG to the head

What would happen to the victim's head if they are shot from point blank range by an M82 Barret with a .50 caliber BMG round? Also, what would happen to the victim if they are shot at the waist/torso by the same round from about 200-400 yards away? Thanks. The Ayatollah 23:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Gunshot wounds are quite harmful, and .50 BMG is a rather huge cartridge. However if you're looking for gory descriptions of injuries, I'm afraid you're in the wrong place- this is an encyclopedia. Friday (talk) 23:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh no, I was just wondering because I heard that .50 BMG could leave an exit wound the size of a basketball. Is this true? If so, would this be caused by a hollow-point or a Full-Metal jacket? The Ayatollah 01:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Jeez, that's a frickin' huge stick of metal to have going through your head at supersonic speeds. And if anyone has a head bigger than a basketball, I'm sure they'd still be scared of getting hit by one. I understand the .50 BMG is mainly used in armor-piercing or materiel sniping. However, I heard that the terrorist in Washington, D.C. was using or at least owned a .50 rifle? V-Man737 01:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Our article says that no crimes have been committed with one and that the gun used to fire them "ith lengths usually between four and five feet and weighing 20-35 pounds, they are unwieldy and virtually impossible to conceal on one's person." Rmhermen 03:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

For the record, where is the article on that (DC Terrist) guy? I completely forgot his name (quite appropriately, I suppose). V-Man737 03:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

You're talking about the Beltway sniper attacks, right? Dave6 07:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

That's the one! Props. I feel silly for not finding it myself... V-Man737 01:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

At point-blank but not necessarily right-against the victim's head it could quite possibly take much of the head off, I would imagine (having taken a single course in forensic anthropology, I should note). With something that large and with that much force it would have a very, very large effect. Even smaller bore ammo used in large pistols can have limb-detaching effects. ---24.147.86.187 03:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

You may find this site of interest (americansniper.org). I seem to think that has some data of interest but my Mommy won't let me see the site here at the office. I can see (americansnipers.org) but that is probably not what you want. --Justanother 20:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Neither of those sites have anything of interest. Are you serious that your mother won't let you see some enthusiast group's website? .. --froth 07:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Operational Substance

What is that yellow paint-like substance that doctors often put on people during an operation/surgery? Is it for sterility? --Proficient 23:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

My guess: povidone-iodine disinfectant; the best we have on this would be at Iodophor. --Tagishsimon (talk)

Also see Betadine. Atlant 01:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes it's an antiseptic --froth 03:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

If you are thinking of an emulsion with a paint-like consistency and a bright yellow colour, that would be acriflavine emulsion (as opposed to dirty brown, watery, povidine-iodine). It is moderately antiseptic, and a common use is for packing wounds or tissue spaces which the surgeon wishes to keep open, using gauze steeped in acriflavine. It is not used for skin preparation at the site of surgery. I do not know what the emulsifying agent is, but it makes a wonderful finger paint :-)--Seejyb 14:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. --Proficient 22:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Wish to verify existance of purported historical monument

While her son was serving in the U.S. Army in Vietnam (1968), my wife's aunt received a post card from him. The face of the card shows a picture of a monument with one American soldier helping another soldier who is apparently wounded. The statue of the two soldiers rests atop what appears to be a granite block. There is a separate plaque in front with an inscription which appears to be Vietnamese language. The reverse side of this post card reads; "GIA DINH: Monument of army physicians". I have searched the web as well as the Misplaced Pages site and have not found any information or reference to any such monument.....nor could I find anything about a Vietnamese town named "GIA DINH". I served in Vietnam in 1964-1965 as a combat medic. In neither my time there nor at any time afterward, had or have I ever heard of any such monument.

My question is; Do any of you good folks at Misplaced Pages have knowledge of any such monument or would you have any means at your disposal to research this matter to either confirm or deny the existant of any such monument? Your assistance would be greatly appreciated.

G5guy 23:25, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

So far I've found that Gia Định is difficult to type on American keyboards (XD!), but it seems to be an ancient name for Ho Chi Minh City. That's pretty much as far as I've gotten... V-Man737 01:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Not so ancient, Gia Dinh was a town on the outskirts of Saigon, and capital of Gia Dinh province.—eric 03:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Anti-heroes

I am looking for any sort of "worksheet" on how to write anti-heroes- sort of guidelines for formatting them. All I need is the list of "rules"; however, I have had trouble finding these online. I have only found essays that are lengthy and don't actually tell you how to write an anti-hero. In short, I'm looking for a "How-To..." guide.

If you know of any websites that have these "worksheets", please let me know.

Thanks!!! 70.238.177.209 23:37, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your question correctly. Let me try to paraphrase what I'm getting: You are looking for a worksheet (or some kind of guideline) about how to write about or develop the character of an anti-hero? The article is very relevant and useful, in my opinion. "and then breaking the rules" is where I really stumble in my understanding. Do you want a list of rules, and then our opinions of the way to properly break them? (I am an expert on the proper method of rule-breaking, BTW.) ;-) V-Man737 10:04, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, the other question! If I met someone (first time) who was trying to commit suicide, my first reaction would be curiosity. I'd ask them why they're doing it. After that, depending on their answer, I'd either try to convince them not to do it, or I'd help them out._{;_; (what a horrible thing to say)} or I'd force them to stop. V-Man737 10:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

School Buses

Whats the purpose of the white flashing light on the top of the school bus? Is it a safety feature for us to be able to seem them?

Flashing lights are there to draw attention and warn others, especially in traffic circumstances. Generally the idea is to warn of school children (in this case) when the lights are flashing.Robovski 00:32, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

In the case of the white light on top, it's to make an already-incredibly-visible object even more visible. It only does so at night. --Carnildo 22:22, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

January 12

Yellow School Buses

The question above reminded me that I've always wondered why, in U.S. movies/TV, school buses always seem to be coloured yellow. Is this really the way it is, or is it just a filmic stereotype? If they are indeed usually yellow, is the colour in any way regulated or is it just a voluntary tradition? If it is regulated, is this on a state-by-state basis, or is it a federal matter? What is there to prevent some school from having, say, a purple bus? JackofOz 00:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Check our article on school bus yellow. — Kieff 00:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Hats off to Misplaced Pages yet again! Thanks, Kieff. JackofOz 00:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

From the Ohio Revised Code, Chapter 4511.77:

"(A) No person shall operate, nor shall any person being the owner thereof or having supervisory responsibility therefor permit the operation of, a school bus within this state unless it is painted national school bus yellow and is marked on both front and rear with the words "school bus" in black lettering not less than eight inches in height and on the rear of the bus with the word "stop" in black lettering not less than ten inches in height."

I assume other states have similar legislation. Note that there are laws governing conduct of drivers near school buses (you have to stop a given distance away when the school bus stops to pick up or drop off students). If the school bus doesn't look like a school bus, the other drivers wouldn't know to stop, and the laws would be unenforceable. And, of course, kids could get run over by those non-stopping drivers. City buses in the U.S., though, come in all kinds of colors. -- Mwalcoff 03:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Yellow is also used in Canada (not surprising as many Canadian driving laws and practices follow the US). Here's an excerpt from the Highway Traffic Act of Ontario: "school bus" means a bus that, (a) is painted chrome yellow, and (b) displays on the front and rear thereof the words "school bus" and on the rear thereof the words "do not pass when signals flashing". (In other words, if a bus doesn't look like that, other drivers don't have to give it the special treatment they do to a school bus.) --Anonymous, January 12, 2007, 06:04 (UTC).

So, to call the roll, what color are school buses in other countries, if not yellow? Edison 23:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

They don't have school buses in Europe, as far as I know. The kids walk, take public transportation or have Mom or Dad drop them off. -- Mwalcoff 23:52, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Mexican school buses are white, I believe, or at least the couple that I've seen. They look like American ones painted white. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 00:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

All women Communial living in Africa

Hi! I am interested in which African country this ancient practice occurs(ed) in. There is a specific name for these compounds which I am interested in knowing. I apologize that I do not have more information to support my question(s). This style of living is done in mud compound style and the compounds can be quite large and women are only allowed. Thanks71.17.102.1 00:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

• Do you perhaps mean compounds for different wives in a polygynous system?--Pharos 00:48, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

spelling

quick question;: i have noticed that when researching lethicin, i am also seeing it spelled 'lecithin'. are they one and the same? thanks chomer01:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

"Lethicin" has about 16 thousand Google hits. "Lecithin" has over 4 million. They are one and the same thing, but "lethicin" is not the correct spelling. -- JackofOz 01:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

If you look up the word in one of the online dictionaries (e.g. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ ), then you will see that the word comes from the Greek word for "egg yolk", which is "lekithos" (in "ordinary" letters). This shows that it was probably first discovered in the yellow of eggs. You will often find that the origin of a word is described in Misplaced Pages, so you can look out for it in the article (in the case of Lecithin is is hidden away a bit). It is a good habit to look up the exact meaning and etymology (where it comes from) of a name when you are researching the topic. --Seejyb 21:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

How do I find all zip codes within 3 miles of US coastline

I'm interested in sending out a mailing to people who live near the coastline (i.e. people who live near the water). Any suggestions on where to find a compiled list of zip codes near the water?

Thanks,

BrianBbutler100 02:32, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

It's a GIS problem, but not a particularly hard one. You need software such as ESRI's ArcGIS or ArcView, and you can download the zip code polygon shape file(s) (public domain) from a number of sources, as well as the files for the water boundaries (IIRC, they come canned with purchase of ESRI software). Then you create a 3-mile buffer on the water boundary and query for all zip code polygons that intersect the buffer. It gets slightly more complicated depending on whether you want to include the Great Lakes, the Great Salt Lake, any other lakes, major rivers, and so forth.

There might be a website running ArcIMS that will let you do this on-the-fly in a web browser, but I've never seen one. Yet. It's a service waiting to be built. Antandrus (talk) 04:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Vintage

Was 1983 a good year for potatoes? NeonMerlin 02:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

In any particular country, or worldwide? --Tagishsimon (talk)

I hope you don't mean the same way it was a good year for wine. 1983 is when Clemson developed a disease-resistant sweet potato, as a Google search dug up. Nothing very relevant came up when I searched "1983 potato famine," though... V-Man737 02:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Cure for homosexuality

Is there a cure for homosexuality? If not, is one likely to be made in the near future?--216.164.200.253 02:40, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Some bigots live in hope of such a thing. Some 'religions' anticipate a cure. Many of the rest of us don't think there is anything to be cured. I would not live in hope of any development from this position if I were you. --Tagishsimon (talk)

A more relevant question is, is there a cure for bigotry and discrimination? — Kieff 02:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Homosexuality is no longer considered a disorder per the 1994 release of the DSM-IV; however, there are some licensed practitioners that offer treatments for those who are homosexual but do not wish to be. V-Man737 02:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Do the treatments work? (By the way, many thanks to V-Man, and, <personal attack removed - User:Zoe|(talk) 17:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC)>.)--216.164.200.253 02:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

(Let's be civil.) I've not looked into such treatments, being heterosexual and all; I've mostly heard about them. this Google search at a quick glance seems pretty pertinent to your question. V-Man737 02:56, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm sorry for the rude language; I shouldn't "feed the troll".--216.164.200.253 02:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Surely you can see why asking for a "cure" to something which many people do not consider to be a "disease" is controversial in the first place (for many it is along the same lines as asking if there is a "cure" for being Black or Asian). If you are not looking to be seen as a troll yourself you should think about how to be more neutral in your wording. Or else don't feign offense. --24.147.86.187 03:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Don't force your bigoted open-mindedness on me. ;) --froth 03:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

If you are interested in a very good discussion of all of the different issues at stake in things like "cures" for homosexuality, Francis Fukuyama's Our Posthuman Future contains a remarkably thoughtful discussion of it from a neoconservative. --24.147.86.187 03:08, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I always thought of X-Men as having that controversy embedded in metaphor; i.e., X-Men: The Last Stand makes a clear point that, although there is a method for reversing mutations, the mutation of itself isn't necessarily a disease. A very recommended movie. V-Man737 03:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

IMO the mutants should have just taken the cure. I mean come on, they were freaks... --froth 03:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, good point, although their real motive to fight it was probably because otherwise there wouldn't be a movie. V-Man737 03:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

There doesn't seem to be any conclusive evidence that the treatments work; although there are some claim that they do work, or that they work to some degree. The problem with asking if there is a "cure" is that it assumes that the cause is genetic or otherwise biological; it is highly possible that socialization plays a role. I think the OP may also have misinterpreted Kieff's comments as intentionally offensive. BenC7 09:33, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

It seems to me that any success seen under such treatments will be due in a very large part to whether the person wants change. Will is a big part of that kind of thing (hence my inclusion above, not of homosexuals in general, but those who do not wish to be so). V-Man737 09:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

"Will" alone may be insufficient to make homosexuals want to go straight, it may require Will and Grace. StuRat 21:09, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

That is possibly going too far in the other direction; assuming that it is totally environmental. I'm sure that if people could change their sexual orientation just by trying really hard to do so, that there would be virtually no homosexuals in the world. BenC7 10:44, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I assume you mean, of course, excepting those who want to be homosexual? (Now we're getting philosophical...) V-Man737 12:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Probably the techniques for changing any behavior, desired or otherwise would be effective here. The Catholic church has been moderately effective at enforcing celibacy (curing heterosexuality), and the same techniques are probably equally effective for curing homosexuality. (There is that unfortunate side effect with both of priests abusing children and sleeping with their parishioners -- but that is incidental, and has only occured in small numbers) I guess no method of trying to make people be what they are not can be completely effective. 16:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

While the behavior can be stopped, the homosexuality cannot be eradicated. Homosexuality involves a desire for romantic and physical interaction with others of the same sex. There have been interviews with people who have undergone the "cures" advertised on the web and elsewhere. Those who considered themselves "cured" admitted that it is a constant struggle for them not to act on their desires and that they live with a degree of frustration. Many who undergo the "cures" end up reverting to the behavior because of their strong and arguably innate desire. A strong case can be made that it would be better for the happiness of individuals desiring a "cure" for their homosexuality to instead recognize that homosexuality is part of who they are (god's gift to them, in spiritual terms), and to accept that it cannot and need not be "cured". Marco polo 18:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I would guess that homosexuality could be "cured", in most cases, with a combination of behavioral therapy, hormone treatment, brain surgery, and genetic modification (the last two parts aren't yet available). However, this in no way means that such a thing is desirable. Consider Michael Jackson, who has largely "cured" himself of being black by extensive plastic surgery. Is this really a good thing ? I don't think so. StuRat 21:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

All these questions relate to cures for homosexuality - but to put a slight slant on the question, are there any examples of a heterosexual man wanting to be "cured" so that he can become a gay man?

I've not been able to find any examples, but I'm sure if a heterosexual wanted to be homosexual, he certainly could. I, however, am happy to be a lesbian trapped in a man's body ;-) V-Man737 00:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I would disagree with those here who seem to suggest if it's learned behaviour it's likely you can change it. I personally believe it's part learned, part inborn (whether genetic per se or as a result of conditions in the womb or even after birth) as with IMHO all behaviour. We don't really know how much of it is learned. But even if it were a high percentage learned, it appears to be fixed fairly early on and in quite a number of cases very firmly fixed so it will be very difficult to change this behaviour and IMHO any treatment which may be able to change it probably wouldn't be ethical even with consent Nil Einne 16:03, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

WP article link by id

Is there a way to link to the current version of an article without using the proper text of the article title? Ideally, the goal is to link by alphanumeric id, such as:

en.wikipedia.org/foobar.php?id=00928312345345

As an alternative to linking by the usual method. The rationale for this is related to unicode limitations on some text editors, and also as an alternate way of creating links on an external website that mangles URLS. NoClutter 03:15, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Since I'm not sure how to tackle this question, I highly recommend the Village Pump, under Technical or Miscellaneous. V-Man737 03:32, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually the Misplaced Pages:Help Desk is probably a better place. Anchoress 04:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Also IIRC the mediawiki wiki has a reference desk --froth 04:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I remember it to be possible, but can't remember the syntax. Agathoclea 12:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it is possible. To get the ID of, say, Chuck Norris, see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/query.php?titles=Chuck%20Norris – it's inside the <id> </id> tags. Now you can link to Chuck Norris by using http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=x&curid=162617. –mysid☎ 13:38, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Contacting other users

Hey, i was just wodnering if i could talk to anybody on usertalk, not just people i know. If so, how do i find out they're usernames to contact them, i would like to make some new friends... but i'm not sure how to. Can anybody help me out here????? *~~LoVe~~LiFe~~LiVe~~* 07:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Probably not. Try chatrooms or ICQ. BenC7 09:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, Misplaced Pages is probably not the best place to approach new people. Too formal, if you ask me. Try internet forums, chatrooms or even social networking websites instead. — Kieff 10:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The primary purpose of Misplaced Pages is not for social interaction, so one should only really communicate with other editors on their talkpages in reference to Misplaced Pages related content. However, there is a social element to being a Wikipedian. For example, there is Misplaced Pages:Reach out where people get involved in helping others deal with stressful issues, Misplaced Pages:Birthday Committee where people offer birthday wishes and Misplaced Pages:Village pump, where people discuss WP related issues. You may meet people at these and other projects (see Category:Misplaced Pages community) and build relationships with them if you share similar interests within the project. But be aware the primary purpose everyone is here is to write an encyclopaedia, and if that isn't your primary interest, you should probably make new friends elsewhere. Good luck. Rockpocket 10:03, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

There's also the annual Wikimania conference, where you can meet other Wikipedians. The 2007 event will take place in Taiwan. --Richardrj 10:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

You may also find meetups may be organised in your... Just noticed the above user has been indefinitely banned, probably because she's supposedly a 11 year old girl. Sorry but I recommend you look at other channels. But do take great care in what you tell other people and remember to ask your parents before meeting anyone in person. Nil Einne 15:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

If you come across someone that you would like to get to know better then see if they have e-mail enabled and send them an e-mail. If they do not then ask them if they would like to enable it. If not then "no means no", I guess. There is nothing wrong with meeting people here provided that you keep the off-topic socializing off the wikipedia site. --Justanother 20:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Flashing lights in old sci-fi movies

I've just watched another old sci-fi movie on TCM and once again saw these old mainframe computers that fill entire rooms, with whirling tape spindles, monochrome monitors, giant printers, and these odd panels with flashing lights. Like grids of random flashing lights creating non-stop patterns. Anyone know if these lights ever had any use on mainframes, or did they just look authentic to the viewing consumer of the period? Sandman30s 10:33, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed they did; the famous Blinkenlights sign refers to to these lights, which dates back to at least 1955. Laïka 11:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the term. Researching Blinkenlights further did answer my question. The original usage was to actually monitor machine/CPU register states but grew out of usage as signals became faster than the time it took to blink a LED! Answers.com says that 'recent computer designs of note have featured programmable blinkenlights that were added just because they looked cool' - this is quite interesting. In darkened rooms it apparently leads to a hypnotic state :) Sandman30s 11:43, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Blinkenlights were originally an essential diagnostic tool used both to debug and to repair computers. But they lost popularity for a vartiety of reasons:

• Computers became much more reliable

• Programming techniques evolved and with the rise of canned operating systems, not everyone needed to program computer input/output operations; done correctly once, it need not be done again and you didn't need to debug the I/O code.

• Computers became smaller so that the light panels were bigger than the involved circuitry.

• With the vast increases in the density of integrated circuits, it became harder and harder to access the internal circuit nodes to which the lights would have been connected.

• With the rise of government regulations controlling the amount of electronic noise that computers could emit, it became impractical to bring high-speed signals out to a light panel (where they could each emit electronic noise).

But as Sandman30s points out, some machines have still deliberately included lights just for the "coolness" effect. The best example I can think of was The Connection Machine with a potential 64,000 LEDs in a fully-populated machine.

Atlant 13:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

i could not readily find online references to support my recollection, but I think that the PDP 8 and IBM 1800 had priminent flashing light panels which reflected the ongoing internal processes. Edison 14:42, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Supposedly they go back to ENIAC to make a press conference more informative. See the last paragraph of this page http://www.upenn.edu/almanac/v42/n18/eniac.html meltBanana 16:35, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Another reason why blinking lights, especially red blinking lights, are avoided these days is that they can cause an photosensitive epilepsy attack in susceptible individuals. There are still some flashing lights around, but not nearly as many as in previous decades. StuRat 20:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

• OK, lets talk blinkenlights. The first computer I spent a lot of time in personal communion with was an IMSAI 8080. I made extensive use of the blinkenlights, out of necessity. I could recognize the pattern my programs made when they were running right. I could use the blinkenlights to examine memory -- stop the computer, examine data at various addresses, and so on. I think the main reason they went away is that computers got too fast for the patterns on the lights to be useful. (Damn, I just found out I can still remember the bootstrap code from 30 years ago...21 00 00 DB FE E6 7F C2 03 00 DB FF 77 23 C3 03 00...) --jpgordon 03:33, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
  • I have to argue strongly against the claim that the light display was just a public relations gimmick. Any part of the circuitry on early computer might stop working at any time. On the relay (GE Mark IV) and vacuum tube (EENIAC) computers, a bad contact or burned out tube could stop a portion of the computer from working. On the next generation, a flip-flop was a plug in card made up of discrete transistors, and a poor connection could interfere with functioning. The light display showed that the machine had all registers and processors functioning. This was a useful diagnostic tool when it sat chugging for a while and did not start printing the solution. There was no easy way then to tell whether you had created an endless loop or whether a portion of the circuitry had stopped working. The reliability per flip-flop increased markedly with large scal integration on integrated circuits. One of my professors related what it was like to use a 1952 computer: you wrote a program in machine language, went to a building and punched paper tape with your code. You submitted it at another building, where a technician fed it into the computer. Nothing whatsoever ever came out. Edison 23:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Currency rates question

How do currency rates work? What causes a currency rate to increase or decrease? Who, or what, is in the end responsible for the official daily value of a currency rate? Is there an officially appointed person or board, or is it a somehow automatic process? JIP | Talk 11:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Have a look at Exchange rate. --Richardrj 12:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Our article Exchange rate is rather intimidating, and the questioner wouldn't be able to get the answer to his/her questions without following several of the links. The short answer is that there are two main types of currencies: floating and fixed or managed. Floating currencies (such as the U.S., Canadian, Australian, and New Zealand dollars, the pound sterling, the euro, and the yen) "float" on currency markets. That is, their value is determined by the bids and offers made by buyers and sellers on the market. If there are more buyers than sellers at a given price, they will bid up the price until enough buyers drop out that the number of buyers matches the number of sellers. This raises the currency's price relative to the currency of the buyer. Conversely, if there are more sellers than buyers at a given price, the price will drop. It is not exactly an "automatic" process, but it occurs rapidly and without much intervention. There is no one managing it, no one is really "responsible", and buyers and sellers collectively determine the end price with their bids and offers. Fixed or managed currencies come in two main varieties: There are pegged currencies, which are legally set at a given value in relation to another (typically floating) currency, such as the euro or the U.S. dollar. These currencies retain this value relative to the reference currency for days, weeks, or even years, until they are allowed to float or legally pegged at a different value by the authorities (national government or central bank) in charge of the pegged currency. Then there are currencies with a managed float, such as the Chinese yuan or renminbi. These currencies are allowed to float on the market, but only within limits set by the authority (national government or central bank) in charge of the currency. Marco polo 16:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Also note that having fixed currency rates, just like any fixed price, doesn't really work in the long term, unless the fixed rate happens to be close to the natural floating rate. Let's say, for example, that the Chinese gov wants to take over the US car market by making their cars far less expensive. So, they lower the value of the yuan relative to the US dollar so that each car costs only US$1000. The result is that they have to subsidize the cost of the car for thousands of dollars. Let's say the car actually costs US$10,000 to make, then they end up subsidizing the cost of each car by US$9000. At such a ridiculously low price, they would sell cars not only in the US market but around the world (even if they only exported to the US market, they would be re-exported from the US). They might very well sell a billion cars a year at such a price, which requires a US$9 trillion subsidy per year. They currently have currency and gold reserves of less than US$1 trillion. Also, not only cars, but everything else they make would have similar 90% plus price subsidies and would sell globally. The Chinese gov would be hard pressed to keep up such a subsidy rate for even a few weeks. A lower subsidy rate could be maintained for longer, and you eventually get a subsidy rate low enough that they can collect the amount needed in taxes from non-export activities. However, this subsidy rate is only a few percentage points, so they can't maintain a currency rate much lower than that permanently. StuRat 20:39, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The way in which the Chinese government is able to control the price of the renminbi is not through subsidies as such, but in the following way: Because China has a large trade surplus, much of it with the United States, its currency would probably rise versus the U.S. dollar if it were allowed to float. This is because it receives many more dollars for its exports than it needs for its imports. Without government intervention, Chinese businesses would be selling many more dollars for renminbi (to pay their workers and other expenses) than they would be buying. However, they sell their dollars to the local bank, which in turn sells them to the Chinese central bank. Selling those dollars on the market would drive the dollar down relative to renminbi, which would raise the dollar price of Chinese goods and make them less competitive. So the Chinese central bank holds onto those dollars instead of selling them, and invests those dollars in U.S. securities (typically Treasury bills). This keeps the renminbi from rising relative to the dollar, keeps the price of Chinese exports low in dollar terms, and also supports U.S. consumption (for example, of Chinese exports) by keeping U.S. interest rates low and making it easy for Americans to borrow money. However, this leaves China with a constantly growing supply of dollars, now approaching US$1 trillion and growing by more than $100 billion per year. The problem is that they can't do much with these dollars. They don't want U.S. exports, and there is some question about the long-term value of U.S. government debt when the U.S. government runs huge deficits every year. At some point the game will have to stop, and the renminbi will probably rise agains the dollar. Marco polo 21:26, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Laptops/Mice

Who invented the finger mouse pad on finger laptops? How do the laser mice work on computers?216.253.128.27 16:39, 12 January 2007 (UTC)nicholassayshi

See here for some info on "laser" mice. Also Optical mouse#Optical mice and Touchpad. No info on the inventor of the touchpad yet, though. --Justanother 16:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The first touch pad was invented by George E. Gerpheide in 1988. Apple Computer was the first to license and use the touch pad in its Powerbook laptops in 1994.

--Justanother 16:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

See also Multi-touch for a (rather stubby right now) article on some newer directions in fingerpads. Friday (talk) 16:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

And of course everybody loves the TrackPoint! --froth 18:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

What are the flakes in butter flakes made of?

Hi all. I was wondering what the flakes in "butter flavored flakes" are made out of. This product bothers me, as it looks to have the exact consistency of sawdust. Much help appreciated ! 69.164.192.120 18:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Then enjoy some disturbed reading of the patent for butter flavored flakes! 50-95% cotton seed oil and soybean oil. Yum. Taste enhancing agent is monosodium glutamate, salt or spices. Flavor is butter flavor, garlic flavor or butter and garlic flavor. Flow enhancing agent is tricalcium phosphate or maltodextrin or both. Excellent. Dinner's sorted, then. --Tagishsimon (talk)

What is John Browning holding?

What model of rifle is John Browning holding in this photo? — Zaui (talk) 18:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I hope you don't take our silence as ignoring you; I've just spent the last half hour scouring Google for glimmers of information. ;_; I am totally stumped! I remember holding a similar gun before, only the one I held was a revolver. Other than that, it was practically identical to what Johnny is holding. I think the revolver was called the "Law Man" or something similar, having been used mainly by law enforcement around the turn of the century. V-Man737 00:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I tried the Google route also with similar results. I was just hoping some gun historian my happen across this and have an answer. — Zaui (talk) 07:03, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

That looks like the Browning semi-auto .22 rimfire rifle; loads from a magazine in the buttstock, ejects from the bottom. You can see the slot in the buttstock where the rounds are loaded when you slide the tube back out the buttplate. My memory is hazy on this part, the cocking handle may be that bump on the bottom a couple of inches in front of the trigger guard, or it may be a plunger on the front of the forend--Remington had a similar design, and I get them confused. I think the Chinese are making a copy of the Browning design these days, maybe I can track down a link for you. I just moved, so my Blue Book is packed away (somewhere in >25 cubic feet of boxed up books in the garage) and I can't get you a model number right now. scot 18:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The bump on the bottom is the cocking handle; Browning makes a model BL-22 that is similar, but that's not it, since it was introduced in 1969 and Browning died in 1925. My guess is that the BL-22 is an updated version of the one he's holding. Numrich Gun Parts just calls it the "Browning Semiauto .22" http://www.e-gunparts.com/productschem.asp?chrMasterModel=0630zSEMI-AUTO%2022 and lists old and new model parts, but doesn't have a date. Looks like it was made in both .22 Short and .22 LR. Also, the loading port is on the righthand side, so it looks like the picture is mirrored... scot 18:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Looks like a Browning Semi-auto 22 to me, which was based on patents Browning filed in the 1920's. See: Browning Semi-auto .22 Rifle. Yaf 03:50, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

wikipedia

is wikipedia falling apart. it seems to be over— Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.23.77.75 (talk • contribs)

Is there something going on that led you to this conclusion? From where I'm standing, Misplaced Pages seems quite healthy. If there is a specific issue that concerns you, you might consider taking it to the Village pump, or the help desk, despending on the concern. V-Man737 22:25, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure this really is the sort of question this area is designed for, but irregardless the website seems to be well maintained by its users and unless there is some funding-issue (there is currently a drive for donations showing above all pages (I think you can dismiss it if you don't like it being there) preventing the site continuing it will survive as long as the users update and maintain it. ny156uk 22:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

*grumble grumble* irregardless *grumble grumble* GeeJo ⁄_(c) • 13:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I also hear, the Sky is Falling. Better watch out! —Mitaphane _talk 05:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

And it can't get up! V-Man737 09:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Jumping on moving car

If i have a very large car and I was to paint a box on the floor around my feet and assuming the car is traveling at 100km/h, and I jump up in the air and land back down, will I still land inside the box i drew or will I be out of the box. I think that I will still be in the box, because I was moving with the car, but someone said that something in your ears will disorientate you or something. Hustle 21:52, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, if you jump in a strange way, your cochlea might give you some troubles, but really the only thing I can see keeping you from landing in that box would be if you jumped out of the car and back into it, exposing yourself to the air that you and the car are traveling through. The air resistance would drag you back in relation to the car a bit. Oh, and also if the car changes velocity while the jump is in progress, the relation would be compromised. But really, I can't think of anything your inner ear would significantly affect in this scenario. V-Man737 22:17, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps Inertial frame of reference will help. Friday (talk) 22:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

If the car is moving in a straight line at constant speed, and assuming you jump straight up, yes, you will land back on the same place. You can try the experiment yourself by riding a vehicle where there's room to stand up -- a train, a bus, maybe a plane -- although I won't be responsible if you get in trouble for annoying the other passengers or painting boxes on the floor!

If the vehicle is begins braking, accelerating, or turning while you are in the air, then you will land ahead, behind, or to one side of the box. If it is already braking, accelerating, or turning when you start jumping, you will have noticed that you were unable to stand upright -- that's why city buses have poles for you to grab onto -- so now the answer depends on whether you jump straight up or in the direction that feels like straight up.

--Anon, January 13, edited 01:31 (UTC).

melbourne winners

dear sir. I have a list of all the melbourne cup winners from 1861 to 2006. i am tyeing to put togeather a history of the melbourne cup as i said i have a list of winners and dates from 1861--2006 i would like to-be able to purchase or down load a photo of each horse to go with this list is this possible to down load or purchase,hope you can help me

regards

barry doorey

Barry,

List of Melbourne Cup winners is an excellent place to start; although Misplaced Pages is rather deficient on pictures of them at the moment, several of the blue links to the individual horses in that list do have pictures. Another good place to search would be in the Wikimedia commons. And for future reference, anything you download from the Wikimedia foundation is free, and the content is licensed under the GFDL.

Sincerely,

V-Man737 22:47, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

You might want to specify that images come with their own licenses and might not be GFDL. They might not even be 'free'. For something like the Melbourne Cup, older images probably would fulfill the first criterion so they could be fair use Nil Einne 15:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Times obituary

I'd like to get hold of a 1995 Times obituary to use as a source. What's the cheapest way to do this? Cheers. — Matt Crypto 22:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

There are sites that sell newspapers from 'your day of birth' so you could find the day you want and purchase a copy that way. Alternatively I think the British Library have a copy of every major publication produced in the Uk, i've not really looked but I would expect their site could help you track down a copy. Alternatively have you contacted The Times directly and asked? They may be quit happy to provide you with a computer-based copy and it doesn't hurt to try. ny156uk 22:21, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

If direct contact isn't the right answer, then where I live, it would be "go to the central reference library"; they'll have the paper on microfilm and anyone can print off a selected part of a page from the microfilm for about the price of a regular photocopy. So ask at a public library near where you live; they'll know where to send you if you can't do it right there. --Anonymous, January 13, 2007, 01:20 (UTC).

Their website, like most major newspapers, has an archive. Goes back to 1985. Seems pretty cheap — at max it is £1 per article with a minimum of £10 total. So figure out 10 things you might like first (you probably don't have to use them all at once, though). They are also among the papers archived in Lexis Nexis, which many libraries and universities have access to. --24.147.86.187 01:31, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

And for articles up to 1985 there's the Times Digital Archive, which has scanned copies of every issue back to 1785 and is a fantastic resource. Unfortunately it's a subscription only website, but most libraries should have it. -- Necrothesp 01:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Hawaiian Language Textbook

I'm trying to teach myself Hawaiian, but I only have two dictionaries that I purchased in Hawaiʻi and some references online. I would really like a textbook and possibly a workbook, but I don't know where I could buy them outside of Hawaiʻi (I live in western New York and likely won't be visiting Hawaiʻi again for a year and a half, when I'll be looking to move there to get my Masters degree). Does anybody know where, online or otherwise, I could buy Hawaiian language textbooks/references? Thank you. --〈 Miriam The Bat 〉 22:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

this looks promising, as this eBay search manifested (also finding audio guides to learning). If you want a larger selection, this Google search looks like an awesome starting point. V-Man737 01:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

What bass is featured in this picture?

Can anyone tell me? Link: http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5830/screenshot136cb9.png (snapshot of Tina Weymouth taken at a Talking Heads/Tom Tom Club concert in 1986). Thanks. 202.10.86.63

Weymouth owns a custom-made Veillette-Citron, and if you compare it to the bass in this picture they seem to match; the body and headstock look very similar. She plays a Fender Mustang, a Gibson Triumph and a Hofner, but my guess is that the Veillette is pictured. Wolfgangus 01:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Hotels in Savannah

Is there an age requirement to rent a hotel room for a night in Savannah Ga, (US)? I thought you had to be 21, but recently I've been hearing that that's not completly true. I'm going to be heading down there from NC, and being able to stay the night instead of making the 4 hour drive back that same day would definitly be nice. If anyone has any idea of that, or if it is different per hotel, then perhaps some suggestions of places to stay? Thank you very much. Chris M. 23:08, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

In my experience, age limit seems to be a function of individual company policies. Most hotels I have stayed in were paid for with a credit card, no questions asked of age. So if you have a credit card, I don't think age will be a hindrance. Keep in mind that with this answer I am severely violating WP:NOR. V-Man737 00:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Understandable, I was kind of requesting that. Thank you very much for your response. 65.185.199.79 01:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

You should call ahead first. Some places won't rent rooms or cars to people who are younger than 25, even if they have credit cards and honor students. It is usually for insurance purposes. But yeah, it's usually an individual company policy, not any sort of legal mandate. --24.147.86.187 01:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

January 13

video

How can i acheive the following goal: take a video that is featured on the internet and get it saved to my computer?

I think you'd need some kind of video editing program. In your browser, you can right-click on the desired video, and then click "properties." A window will pop up that contains the path and file name of the video, usually ending with a dot and three letters (in the same fashion as www.***.com), known as an extension. Depending on the extension, the video editing software may be compatible with the file. My answer will probably be inferior to that which the folks at the Computing RefDesk would give, so I suggest that you visit them as well. V-Man737 01:11, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

That's to edit a video, not to save it. --24.147.86.187 01:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

If you are just trying to download the video then it depends on how the video is being hosted. If it is in a flash-embedded player, like those on YouTube, then a google search for "download YouTube" will give you many options that claim to be able to do this. If it is a RealPlayer (RM) or ASX file then you often can't, at least not easily (you can download a link to the video but usually not the video itself). Give us some more info on the video and we might be able to help you more — a link to the site itself will give us a lot of information, even if it is not to the exact video you are trying to download. --24.147.86.187 01:42, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

There are several stream capture applications that will cap ASX --froth 03:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Firefox has a plugin that allows you to save streaming media from certain sites. Might want to give it a try. BenC7 03:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

"The Rose"

Is there any place on the internet where I can download a free copy of the song "The Rose" by Cara Dillon (originally sang by Bette Midler)? Thanks.

After a Google search, I decided that the song is probably unavailable on the internet. I mostly found it embedded in an album by Tommy Fleming, in which they sang the song together. Hope that helps! V-Man737 04:10, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Jamesino 01:21, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Shakespeare's top works

What are generally considered to be Shakespeare's top three plays he wrote? Jamesino 03:19, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Personally: Hamlet then Romeo and Juliet then King Lear or Julius Ceasar --froth 03:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

By the way, see Shakespeare's plays --froth 03:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

That definitely depends on your tastes, as well as if you're asking about the best-structured, or the most famous, or the most well-rounded, or the best at what it does (i.e., a comedy that actually makes people laugh). Certainly no three of them outdo the others on all the factors involved. My favorites? The Comedy of Errors, Midsummer Night's Dream, and Macbeth. They each have their individual appeals to me, and trying to figure which is better than the other is like trying to figure out whether a pretzel is more salty than the moon is bright. V-Man737 03:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

V-Man's comment in re salt v. moonlight is a point well taken, so ultimately you'll need criteria. If, for example, you go by which plays have broadly impacted culture the most, from which more lines have been adopted into the language, and which have kept scholars guessing, interpreting, and re-inventing, Hamlet must be at or near the top; centuries after the fact, Hamlet himself remains among the most complex characters in all of literature, and his supporting cast is dynamite - second to none. Romeo and Juliet is a strong second choice by virtue of its tremendous appeal alone, followed by Othello, Macbeth and King Lear in no order. Of course, these are all tragedies, but in a body of work like Shakespeare's, I would argue that history has responded the strongest to this category - and for good reason. Wolfgangus 13:33, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I hated Shakespeare at school; all that The Tempest stuff. So I gave up on the bard. And in my 50th year, my wife took me to a production of Midsummer Night's Dream in Edinburgh during the annual festival. It was so funny, and strangely, I completely understood the vernacular. So that is my number 1. Then I went to see Romeo and Juliet and it was so beautifully scripted, I cried, and I have since seen it on stage and screen and as a ballet (Prokofiev) many times, and each time, I cry - so that has to be my number 2. And then I saw Mel Gibson as Hamlet and I was astounded not just by his performance, which was stupendous, but by the relative accuracy of Shakespeare's treatment of what we now know as Psychology. Extremely thought-provoking but nevertheless, enthralling. So that has to be number 3. But I seek out as many productions of Shakespeare's plays as I can affordably get to in Scotland/England, and am prepared to be shouted down by others at my foregoing shortlist. The Bard was before/during/and after his time. What a gift from God.

The question is a reasonable one, unlike the comparison of a pretzel's saltitude and the Sun's luminance. For many artists one could answer the question which are generally considered their N best works, where N is a small number. For example, Truffaut's best three films might be the first three films he made. Among good artists, it is only for a rare few artists like Shakespeare that it is truly impossible to answer this question.  --Lambiam 23:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Book references

I have noticed that some references that I have used have been changed. Sometimes it is the difference between the hard-cover and pocket book versions. Other times it is a latter edition. As the reference has been made against an actual book, should this be edited and altered? I have not found any policy on this.

On one occasion the ISBN check did not match. In this case I checked both my version and a new book offered for sale. Both had the unbalanced ISBN. This created a problem as the error could be either the number or the check. I chose to used the unbalanced ISBN as printed in the book.

I would like some guidance on this.

Thank you

DonJay 03:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

You should reference the book that actually contained the information. If a more recent edition has been produced, it should be checked to make sure that it contains the relevant information before the reference is changed. BenC7 03:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Clicking on an ISBN number in Misplaced Pages leads to a page of book sources, and eventually to a webpage where one can order that book if it is in print. So if a book exists in several editions, and you only wish to refer someone to the book title, it helps if you cite an edition that is readily available. Obviously, if you are quoting from a yearbook or something else that changes with each edition, you need to cite the exact edition. Very occasionally, books are published with an incorrect ISBN. For this reason it is best to cite the 13-digit version of the ISBN that appears below the barcode on the book, as this is usually computer-generated. In fact, from January 2007 all ISBNs are supposed to be cited in their 13-digit form. There is a currently a bot poised to convert all the ISBNs in Misplaced Pages to this format, and this bot has already flagged incorrect ISBNs for manual correction.--Shantavira 10:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

High Jump

In the indoor track and field event of High Jump, at what point is the bar considered cleared? i.e. how long must one wait as the bar wiggles, before it is ruled a successful jump?

thanks, 74.37.228.44 04:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

If one is to believe the BBC Sport Academy, "If the bar falls off before you leave the mat it is a failure". –mysid☎ 09:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The 'falls off before you leave the landing mat' rule was the rule at my school. I remember trying to dive off the mat in time to save myself from being eliminated! Some rules I found are..."Knocking the bar off the supports, or touching the ground or landing area beyond the plane of the uprights with any part of the body without clearing the bar shall count as a failure", also "If the bar falls off without having been knocked by the competitor (eg. due to strong wind) the competitor is not penalized." These are taken from the site www.littleathletics.com.au it doesn't mention a time-scale for the bar falling off so i'm not sure what rule applies to that specifically. ny156uk 10:02, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

At my track meet last week there was a discrepancy with this rule. The ref was using the mat rule, and a coach claimed that the rule is a myth. I'm in NY. Omnipotence407 12:55, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Why is the pope informally referred to as "His Palpalness"?

I've seen him (the Late Pope John Paul the 2nd) nicknamed as that in several magazines, chatrooms, and message boards. Why is this? The definition of "palp" is the insect's feeler, basically... I do not see the relation between an insect and a pope.

I think it's a play on the words 'papal' (from pope) and 'palp' (or even just 'pal') — Kieff 05:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Google finds no hits on "His Palpalness"?, but a number of hits on "His Papalness". That would be a play on "papal" (which, as just mentioned, means "of the Pope"). If some people out there is using "his palpalness", this is either a spelling error or a further degree of wordplay (i.e. they think it's funny that there's no connection between the Pope and a palp, or they like the way it sounds like "pal", or something). --Anonymous, January 13, 05:28 (UTC).

The Pope#Titles of the Pope gives some really great background on who people are talking about when they use these terms. However, "His Papalness" is not found anywhere in the article, let alone on any reliable internet source (that I've found with a glance at Google). "Papacy," meaning something pertaining to the Pope, would be a more correct form of this word. "Papalness" seems to be a colloquialism that ranges in nature from general title to highly derogatory. As to its origins, I am unable to find anything reliable. V-Man737 06:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Most Sold Car

What is the most sold car and model for 2006?

I suspect it might be a Ford truck. However, you might need to be more specific. In the US? In the world? Also, the total numbers for 2006 probably aren't in, yet. --Mdwyer 06:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Within the Premier Automotive Group at least, the numbers are in by the 7th Jan each year. GeeJo ⁄_(c) • 13:21, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Cake

Can cake melt, excluding the frosting?

My guess is no. I believe it would denature or burn before it melted. That is, it would stop being cake. Individual ingredients might melt, though, especially the fats. --Mdwyer 06:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Check this out: Tantalyzingly promising, but I'm not sure how to make it work... ;_; At any rate, I've mostly heard of cake burning rather than melting (from too much heat). I'm willing to bet, though, that if a certain cake has too much fat in it, and it is kept at a constant, high temperature, its shape would slump and it would appear to "melt". However, this is not the same as a phase transition. V-Man737 06:57, 13 January 2007 (UTC)(edit: er, well, the cake as a whole does not undergo a phase transition, but the saturated fat does.) V-Man737 05:08, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

The thermal kinetics of starch gelatinization in the presence of other cake ingredients Who writes this stuff?!  :) --Mdwyer 07:04, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

People who are almost as bored as but twice as smart as us. V-Man737 07:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Ice cream cake sure will. --Nelson Ricardo 17:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Of course. Remember the Donna Summers song MacArthur Park? -THB 00:29, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

how is it possible?

When I look at recent changes I see like 150 edits per minute (not including vandalism). How is it possible to obtain that many edits within a minute?--PrestonH | talk | contribs | editor review | 06:47, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Thousands of editors contribute to that number --froth 06:57, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm actually surprised the number is so low. — Kieff 08:03, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

News Reports DEAD Birds:

The News services in Austin, Texas has reported that Birds have fallen out of the sky DEAD. Same for the Aussie News services, they too have reported DEAD Birds falling out of the sky. one sec. they're doing OK, then they're DEAD. Terrorists testing VX nerve gas ? 65.173.104.227 08:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

What the -edited for language- is going on ? 65.173.104.227 08:19, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think any of us knows more than the news agencies in THIS GOOGLE RESULT. Anchoress 08:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

In the actual event of VX nerve gas, it may be a good idea to run. V-Man737 10:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Reminds me of the Barton Fink movie... 惑乱 分からん 14:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

And Magnolia. For what it's worth, during an interview here in Austin, the county medical director claimed that it wasn't all that peculiar to see sixty birds die in this manner ... yet he didn't cite another example. Instead, he hinted that the deplorable hygiene practiced by birds may be to blame. We'll see. Wolfgangus 15:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

question

what is considered to be the second to the first spirit of the world? i thot alaska was the spirit of the world n it being the biggest state in us then the second wud be texas...but thats not it,but av bin told if i thoroughly googled it al get it..any help mates

Hm, that is a little bit vague, but this seemed to be the most relevant thing a Google search dug up. It seems "Spirit of the World" is an IMAX movie about Alaska. Are you asking about a second movie by this title (i.e., Spirit of the World 2)? I'm unable to find anything relevant indicating that one exists... V-Man737 13:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Article writing difficulty

Dear Misplaced Pages,

I am interested in writing an article on a literary character and I have created an account but I cannot find a link that actually allows me to write an article. I continue to be redirected from one page to the next within the community portal and help areas but I cannot find one page that actually gives me the option of starting a page. I think I am missing something. Perhaps it is some sort of prerequisite approval process that I am unaware of. Please help.

Peter Roblejo

Hi Peter, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! You can start a new article by writing its desired title in the search box you see on the left. When a search page appears, click on the red link with the text "create this page" and you're ready to write the article. Misplaced Pages:Help Desk will help you with furhter questions. –mysid☎ 14:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Please bear in mind the article naming conventions before proceeding. Search for "John Smith", not john smith or John smith. If similar results appear, you will have to consider creating a better title, such as John Middlename Smith, or John Smith (racing driver). This will require what we call a disambiguation page, with which you should seek further help, perhaps from another editor. As a rule-of-thumb; read the help pages before starting an article. It will leave you better equipped to get started. Adrian M. H. 17:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

date ASU became a university

wanted to know the year Arizona state univeersity became a university. it was Arizona state college in the early 1950's

The year was 1958. Wolfgangus 15:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't that kind of thing be mentioned in Arizona State University? Nil Einne 15:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The Misplaced Pages article definitely says 1885.

No, 1885 was when the school was founded, as a normal school, not when it became a university. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:38, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Day care

Are day cares really bad for your kids (in u.s.a).do they really make them sick? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.225.169.185 (Talk) (talk • contribs) 16:05, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

It's the society that makes kids sick. The day care is just a symptom... =S 惑乱 分からん 16:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

As I will state in my upcoming book, A Single, Childless Gay Man's Guide to Raising Children, what makes children these days allergic to so many things is overprotective partents who sterilize and sanitize everything. For goodness sake, let your kids play in the dirt and be exposed to germs while young. Otherwise, they will not build up tolerance and imunity. (I am not a doctor, and this is not medical advice.) --Nelson Ricardo 17:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Many people view a good child care, or pre-K school as being a very healthy positive experience for their children. They are exposed to different cultures, different peoples rules, and learn to socialize with others their own age, before kindergarten. As for disease, they have an opportunity to get immunity to a broad range of diseases even before going to formal school (K-12) and benefit from that greatly. Atom 19:03, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Physically? I'd have to agree with Nelson. Day cares and other childcare facilities, as well as some other businesses and even residences, are so concerned about "evil germs" and the chance of getting sued for medical care that they nuke everything of germs. Unfortunately, this helps breed chemical resistance and doesn't let the child's immune system build the antibody stocks they need. Cleaning is fine, but the fact is, (going to go a bit into opinion here) commercials such as Lysol's that say that all germs should be eliminated, destroyed, killed help promote this sort of rabid "can't have germs everywhere, can't have germs anywhere" mentality. As for emotionally, supplemental day-care is probably harmless, but dropping a kid off in day-care is no substitute for parenting, and while this might be good for them socially, it's probably not very good developmentally and for bonding with the parent, which is crucial. --Wooty Woot? contribs 19:57, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with those who say daycares are bad for children. My mother ran a day care for several years and let me tell you , it was a very healthy environment. it depends on te day care i guess but my mothers was always clean as a whistle. I swear you could never get any germs from that place. The house was scrubbed clean each night and the place was always neat and tidy. It is not unhealthy mentally either. She taught those children valuable lessons in life that benefitted both the children and their parents. She even once (with parental permission) taught them abou the value of money and from that day on the parents all agreed that the children stopped asking for stuff all the time. It just depends on the day care but some are really helpful. i myself went to a Childrens World day care and learned so much from there. Whether in the house or at a day care facility day cares can really influence the way a child acts....negetivly if a bad one..and very positive if a good one. --Kittycat rox 23:18, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

As far as physical illnesses go, there is quite a bit on the net about "day care" +illness. In essence the medical research indicates that a young child in day care clinic (DCC) has an increased risk of sniffling, colds, sore throats and chest infections, compared to a child at home. Epidemic types of infections, such as meningitis, increase. Asthmatic babies have a greater incidence of wheezing and acute breathing difficulties (3x for age group 0-2). "Poor hygiene" infections (skin, diarrhoea, hepatitis) are increased, but can be significantly reduced with strict cleanliness habits. On the other hand, this difference decreases rapidly after 1 year of enrolment and disappears by 4-5 years of age. By 12 years, and in adulthood, the DCC kids have half the "allergies" - food, asthma, eczema - that at home kids have (simply living with older brothers or sisters, or on a farm, has the same effect). No difference in cancers, such as leukaemia or lymphoma. The most recent recommendation (2006) was that health-wise it would be wise to enrol the kid after the age of 1 year, if possible. --Seejyb 03:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Subheadings in exam questions

My niece was practising some old exam papers and asked me a the following question.

Exams questions are numbered 1,2,3... and subdivided into part questions a,b,c... but if a part question needs subdividing it's done as i, ii, iii, iv, ...... Now this is clearly based on the roman numeral system buy why is it in lower case? Roman numbers do not have lower cases numerals. I presume it's done now because of convention but thought it up in the first place and was there an actual reason for using lower case? Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 17:12, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't this depend on the exam? I don't think there is a worldwide standard. --Nelson Ricardo 17:24, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

No it wouldn't I've seen it all over the place. Come to think of it, not just in exams, the use of lower case roman numerals as sub sub heading orderings is widespread, but why? Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 17:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

This is standard practice in many publishing houses, though in some contexts the 1.b.iii scheme is giving way to a 1.2.3. scheme. The fact that the Romans never actually used a lower case is unlikely to bother anyone using this system. It makes it clear that this level is inferior to the one above it.--Shantavira 18:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Shantavira, 1.b.III doesn't properly convey the intended level structure very well. --hydnjo talk 19:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

It's probably as simple as the fact that it's the default multilevel numbering in MSWord (blame it on Bill). In MSW, headings are numbered with proper roman numerals, then it's: number, letter, small rn, etc ad infinitum. Anchoress 20:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe this has been common practice (as Shantavira said) for a long time. I presume Microsoft Word merely streamlined what many writers and editors would have wanted to do anyway. (So I don't think we can blame Bill here.) —Steve Summit (talk) 21:01, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

From our article Roman numerals: "Sometimes the numerals are written using lower-case letters (thus: i, ii, iii, iv, etc.), particularly if numbering paragraphs or sections within chapters, or for the pagination of the front matter of a book."  --Lambiam 23:27, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Do Americans really think they are "nearly english"?

In the disgustingly violent film Kill Bill there is a dialogue that goes something like this:

Japanese cafe proprieter: "Are you english?"

Heroine: "I'm nearly english. I'm American."

As a british person I was shocked that Americans even in fiction could think they are nearly english, as to me they do not seem in the slightest like english people. 62.253.44.35 18:52, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

People that are not from the "west" basically do think of Americans and Brits as from the same tree. One would never confuse a Frenchman for a Brit or an American, but they view the cultural or political difference between the British and Americans as small, and unimportant for most things.

The U.S., of course is very widely culturally diverse. Yet, many still feel that their roots as Americans came from England, and a lerge number of people have some english heritage by blood. Culturally Americans and English have very similar cultures from the context of Japanese, Chinese or Korean cultures. Looking closely comparing cultures, there are a great similarities, and of course, a great number of large differences. The cultural stereotypes of each are indeed fairly different from the view of someone who is very American, or very British. But, the point of the humor, I think, is that in the same way the we Americans and Brits lump all asian cultures together, and want to think of them as all being basically the same, is the same way that many cultures view Americans and Brits.

I would say that (in order) that Scottish, Welsh, New Zealanders, Australians, Canadians, and then Europeans are more similar to english people than Americans. I belive far more americans have German ancestry than British ancestry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.253.44.35 (talk • contribs) 15:17, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The 2000 Census shows about 43 Million of German descent, and 25 million of English descent. (Roughly 16% and 8% respectively by total population.) German americans were highly visible pre WWII, but after that, lost visibility.

Also, a common view (misconception) is that essentially, Scottish, Welsh, NZ Canadians and Australians ARE part of the U.K., aren't they? Americans are merely closely related to the british. American is seen as predominantly influenced by England, and only marginally by France. For instance, laws in all states are based on English common law (except for Lousiana, which is based on French Law). Atom 20:14, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Americans definitely do not think of ourselves as "nearly English". We might possibly think of the English as "nearly American", though of course not so nearly as Canadians. --Trovatore 19:38, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The more I think about that line - without knowing the full context - the funnier it gets. I've never met a fellow American who imagined his American identity as 'nearly English', but the line hints at a perceived inferiority complex among some Americans, as well as Trovatore pointing out the contrary, along with a jab at the presumed, perceived, arrogance of Americans in general. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but Tarantino's humor is rarely so incidental. Wolfgangus 19:50, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

The humor is, as mentioned before, that all Americans lump all dark skinned people as "Africans", all Asians together as Japanese or Chinese, all hispanics as Mexicans, and all Eastern europeans (previous eastern block nations) as Russians. The film plays heavily on racial and cultural stereotyping. The reverse stereotyping that all Westerners are viewed as essentially Brits is the intent, I think. (See Ethnic stereotypes in American media).

The inferiority complex doesn't click, because, as you say, the stereotype for Americans is of an arrogant, large, loud, loutish Texan with a large ego. Brit's are portrayed as unecessarily prissy, sexually cold, submissive, overly proper, prudish, and with bad teeth. Of course, the French, the Italians and Greeks have their own stereotypes. Spaniards, Belgians and Dutch don't have much visibility. Although Dutch might be combined with a general setreotype of Swedes, Finns and Norwegians as tall, sexy but rather dumb and overly easy going. Note: I don't believe any of these stereotypes, and thank goodness none of them are any more relevant than thinking all Americans are like George Bush. (A rich preppy North-Eastern mama's boy -- pretending to be an arrogant, large, loud, loutish Texan with a large ego.) Atom 20:14, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm American, and I don't think I'm "nearly English". Though if asked by a Japanese, I might just say "close—I'm American". To me, there is a kinship that is about culture, not ancestry. I remember many years ago being on a ferry from Ostende to Dover and having a strong feeling of coming home. Marco polo 20:38, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

As a Briton, I've never understood why the Americans would think we're prudish or proper (and it seems to be an enduring stereotype regularly trotted out). In my experience, Americans are far more prudish and proper than the British. Just look at the amount of nudity and swearing the BBC shows after 9pm compared to mainstream US TV channels, the fact that the Americans seem incapable of calling a toilet a toilet (just for the record, public toilets have no baths in them and you don't visit them to have a rest!), and the common American habit of addressing people as "Sir", "Ma'am" or "Miss" (most British people wouldn't dream of doing that unless they were members of a uniformed service, serving a customer - and it's getting uncommon in that context, or addressing a teacher at school). -- Necrothesp 01:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, we're wandering a bit from the already tenuous point, but maybe I can help you on the "toilet" question. In the US, "toilet" does not mean the room. It means the actual apparatus (what do y'all call it, BTW?), the thing with a seat and water underneath it. That's why "going to the toilet" sounds a bit overly direct to American ears. --Trovatore 01:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Lately, to avert confusion among my intercontinental friends, I simply explain that I am going to urinate. They infer where. Speaking of which... V-Man737 05:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

The American impression of British people is the Masterpiece Theatre -- note the pretentious -re spelling -- stereotype of upper-class Victorian lords and ladies. The only English people most Americans have seen who don't speak like Queen Elizabeth II (or Shakespearian characters) are The Beatles. And British culture is still far more formal than American culture in some respects. When I was working in Europe, a British colleague of mine was shocked at the informality of the reply I got to an e-mail I had sent to an American company. I had mentioned I had used their product in my home state, which turned out to be the customer-service guy's home state too, so he included a crack about our local NFL team in his reply e-mail. I think Americans are also far less likely to use last names to address people -- teachers and people over 70 are about the only people called Mr. or Mrs. nowadays. -- Mwalcoff 05:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

But I think - as a Californian transplanted in Texas, for the record - that Americans with an acute sense of that arrogant stereotype are more interested in distancing themselves from it. For example, during the time I've spent in Europe, I've always been painfully conscious of the 'ugly American' and probably overreacted more than once to convince Europeans that I wasn't one of those Americans. As a concerted effort to elude that stereotype, it becomes a push to counter an unflattering perception, one made from a position of inferiority. If I omitted perceived from the sentence above and amended it to suggest the complex exists among Americans interested in dodging the stereotype - Americans with a conscience, let's say - I think it becomes just such a complex. It's convenient - and maybe even a measure of personal safety - for some Americans abroad to claim they're Canadian simply to avoid the mounting hassles tied to the nationality. Denying one's nationality as self-preservation is one thing, but doing so because the associated stereotypes are embarrassing, quite another. Wolfgangus 21:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Many Americans have all or mostly English blood in our veins. After Canada, we consider England to be the most similar culture. And there are plenty of anglophilic Americans running around. -THB 00:18, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I suppose that canada is very similar to america, but recently (at least in my experience) it's become popular to mock canada, mostly for their puny armed forces, their comical (and of course untrue) habit of driking gallons of delicious maple syrup every day, and their unusual accents --froth 02:32, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the U.S. is more similar to the other predominantly English-speaking countries (Canada, the U.K., Australia, New Zealand and to some degree Ireland) than it is to any other countries. American attitudes toward families, work and the role of the state, while hardly identical with those of the UK, are closer to those than they are to the views of, say, France or Mexico. The World Values Survey map puts the English-speaking countries in the same blob (although Great Britain is now closer to Austria, Luxembourg, Belgium, France and Italy than to the rest of the "Anglosphere," including Northern Ireland). The English-speaking blob of countries is more religious than the Protestant Europe and "Confucian" blobs and more concerned with "self-expression" and individual freedom than the Ex-Communist and Third World (South Asia, Africa and Latin America) blobs. -- Mwalcoff 06:02, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I live in the USA, and I dont think I am english.Rya Min 01:02, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd say America is more English than England. After all, England uses the metric system, while America uses the English system. America retains the spirit of independence for which England was once known, while England has become a member of the EC. America has the greatest navy in the world now, not England, and has more of an empire (economic) than England, these days. StuRat 09:07, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Book of Revelation

The article Book of Revelation has some formatting issues... main paragrahs are being shown in the footnote area. If anyone is good at formatting then pls. have a look at it. I tried looking at the source but was not able to figureout the reason for such a display...

Thank you --IndianCow 20:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

With a quick glance at the article, I'd say it seems to have a fairly good description (especially with the HTML code in the text) at WP:SPCP. Use the article's talk page or other Misplaced Pages attention-getting pages to get it fixed. V-Man737 21:47, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Real Esate URL

I'm trying to get smart people's opinion on this, so I thought I'd ask here. What would be a good URL name for a service that pools people's money together to flip real estate? Thank you!--orphan frequently 21:34, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• www.thebubblesnotpoppedyetsospeculatenow.com -THB 00:18, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
• www.flipoffrealestate.com V-Man737 03:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Incan Gods.

Could I see some images of the gods as well as an explanation of their meaning?

I suggest you start with Category:Inca deities and work from there. Dismas| 23:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Help deciphering a note

I got a note from a friend. He has really bad handwriting and I can't figure out this one part. It looks like it says "Have you seen 'The Sorrows of Boner or Meditations in the Island of Bbq'?", but this doesn't make any sense to me and I tried a google search. Please help.--216.164.192.144 01:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Almost! He meant "The Sorrows of Boney or Meditations in the Island of Elba". I get at least one Google hit for that. — Kieff 01:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

As in Boney and Elba, I presume. --Seejyb 03:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Computers

I want to learn about computers. Can someone please tell me where on the web I could do this? The article here is too complicated for a beginner. I did not put this in the computer catagory because I consider this a question about learning. Musli Miester 01:20, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Start here ? --Light current 01:58, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, but I know how to do all that. I want to know how a computer works. Musli Miester 02:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

OK try this --Light current 02:17, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

The field of computers is constantly changing. There is no good place to start really, as everything is connected to everything else, and it is circular. Just jump in learning about some aspect of computers that fascinates or interest you, and read trade magazines, go to the library, buy books from amazon, and establish that interest as a beach-head for topics related to that. Atom 02:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Howstuffworks.com is a good starting point for this type of question. StuRat 08:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Brett Favre

How can Brett Favre be so amazing? Is he the second coming of Christ?

Yes, the Messiah has nothing better to do, so he plays football. There aren't so many shepherd jobs these days. --Nelson Ricardo 02:32, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Jesus was not a shepherd, he was a carpenter.Rya Min 03:34, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Jesus was a carpenter, experienced a career transition, and is now a shepherd. ^_^ V-Man737 04:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

And now he plays for the Packers Rya Min 05:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

lol. Keeping on-subject, our article doesn't say much about why Brett Favre is amazing (and indeed, this may forever be a mystery), but it certainly does give many examples of his skills in the game. V-Man737 05:37, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not Christian, but if I was, I would fail to see messianic characteristics in someone who threw 29 interceptions in 2005. -- Mwalcoff 06:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Google Answers?

68.193.147.179 04:16, 14 January 2007 (UTC)What is the Google Answers Blog at Google Groups?

A tongue twister! In seriosity (what word am I really trying to spit out??), Google Blog actually announced that the Google Answers thingy is no longer active, but FWIW, it doesn't seem to have its own blog; rather, the Google Blog seems to speak for all the Google endeavors as a whole. You should still be able to peruse the archives of Google answers via the above link. V-Man737 05:05, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Purgatory

Who do Catholics believe will go to purgatory after they die:

1. Only some Christians?

2. Only some non-Christians?

3. Both some Christians and some non-Christians?

The Anonymous One 05:29, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Our article on purgatory is very useful for this question. Roman Catholics believe, essentially, that anyone who sins (so everybody) qualifies for purgatory. However, this is an after-life purification state, not to be confused with hell. People who are damned to hell for eternity essentially don't have time to go to purgatory. From the article: "there are two punishments for sin: eternal punishment inflicted in Hell, and temporal punishment inflicted in this life or in purgatory if left uncompleted upon death. Forgiveness of sin, for example through the absolution granted by confession, remits the eternal punishment. Penance, such as almsgiving, prayer, fasting, and suffering remit temporal punishment. Thus temporal punishment is a satisfaction for sin." (Baltimore Catechism 629, 804, and 805) V-Man737 05:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

(Edit: long answer short, those who are granted absolution of sins (by a priest or other holy officer) sidestep the eternal hell, and are instead purged. This implies that mostly Christians (Catholics) will have purgatory.) V-Man737 05:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

January 14

Just need help finding an article, I can't do it!

I've looked for ages, I am trying to find an article about a Legal Statement made in a certain Legal Case which is somewhat of a meme on the internet. Basically the statement is a very long winded and technical "fuck you" that people cite (in typical "See X v X" laywer style) as a 'comeback' in certain online arguments. All help would be appreciated Gelsamel 07:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Several moments and Google searches later, I came up with this Slashdot forum discussion which seems to get pretty close. I used Google searches such as lawyer-style insult and humorous lawyer-style comeback, nearly all fruitless. Can you remember any particular part of the legal statement? I could refine the search with snippets of wording, especially if you recall any forums or websites you saw it on. V-Man737 08:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

There is a Misplaced Pages article on it, which I can't find. Also it was linked on www.xkcd.com which I participate in but still can't find (since it was an old post). I think the words "fuck you" were actually in the legal statement but I forget. When ever it's cited as a comeback it's always cited as "Refer to X v. Y" or "See X v. Y" in the same way lawyers refer to other cases. I can't remember X or Y T_T. Gelsamel 08:12, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Also it was in response to a legal threat, a threat of a lawsuit or something. Which they responded with that phrase I'm looking for. Gelsamel 08:15, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I remember Jeff Rowland (webcomics) making a comic in which Princess Awesomelope tells Sheriff Pony to "engage in the act of coitus with yourself." ...I'll get back on Google for some more power-searching. V-Man737 08:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the help so far, I've been searching all over but I still can't find it. I think I'm ready to give up on it. Gelsamel 09:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Clueless about cooking

I want to cook something more than spaghetti, but I don't know the basics of preparation. I'm going to post a simple recipe. I ask you explain parts that are unclear to me. Thanks.

recipe

2 cups dry chicken stove top stuffing mix (from the canister) What is this product? Can I just buy this ?

Pour into a greased 9 x 12 baking dish. How do I grease a baking dish and what is a baking dish?

66.91.225.188 08:10, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Stove Top stuffing in a box will work, too, but don't use the spice pack unless told to do so. A baking dish is a rectangular dish with rounded corners and a draft angle, usually made of tempered glass, for cooking cakes, casseroles, etc., in the oven. You can grease a baking dish with oil, butter, or margarine. Use a clean paper towel to rub it all over the inside of the baking dish. This keeps the food from sticking. I can't help notice that the recipe you intend to use takes around an hour total. Wouldn't something like a nice omelette be a lot quicker ? (I can't think of many cases where the cook wants to start breakfast an hour before anyone wants to eat it.) StuRat 08:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Stages of war?

You know the 7 stages of grief? Are there stages of war commonly used by the United States to indicate increased tensions? Perhaps, "build-up," "surgical strike," etc?

Thank you for your help!