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talk:Don't-give-a-fuckism - Misplaced Pages

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Miscellany for deletionThis page was nominated for deletion on 2007-01-15. The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

Oh God... I wasn't expepecting that userbox.. I nearly fell out of my chair laughing. --The Prophet Wizard of the Crayon Cake 19:57, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


Quick poll

Support:

Oppose:

Meh:

Rudeness

This page has to be renamed to reflect politeness.--10:09, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Who the fuck gives a fuck about fucking politeness? Besides, Misplaced Pages is not censored. oTHErONE (Contribs) 06:43, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Rewording indecent language is not censorship.--08:41, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
It was created as Misplaced Pages:Don't-give-a-fuckism and it will stay that way. oTHErONE (Contribs) 09:39, 20 September 2006 (UTC)


Well, I'm fine with changing the name... but I think the "fuck" sort of embodies the entire idea behind the ism. But yeah... I don't really care. --The Prophet Wizard of the Crayon Cake 14:00, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm outraged and offended at the rudeness behind this article. PROD ahoy! ;D--WaltCip 23:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't care how offended people are by the title, but it seems that the title could be more accurate. Don't-give-a-fuckism seems to be a title for sensationalism instead of accuracy. A more correct title would be Apathetic Philosophy or something along those lines. Don't-give-a-fuckism should be talked about inside the article (i.e. an alternate phrasing). I like the article, but I think it needs to be edited to sound like a serious article. --Jfowler27 16:48, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

IMHO it doesn't need to be censored (make the title more palatable to sensitivities) to be "serious." Its irreverence is the point. Readers who don't "get it" don't have to, 'cause we DGAF. See? But if the title is keeping the thing in a rut, maybe "Ambiable Apathy" or "Irreverent Apathy" (see my userbox mod below) is more your (plural) cuppa tea? David Spalding (☎ ✉ ✍) 21:35, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree it doesn't need to be censored, at least not simply because it offends people or uses course language. I'm starting to see that it might not hold the same weight or meaning if the title is changed. It felt inaccurate at first, but going through it again, the suggested apathy is obvious in the actual article and the creation of an ism for it is a fairly good idea. Don't-give-a-fuckism might ruffle a few stuffy people, but who gives a fuck. Right? --Jfowler27 07:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Pretty much... --The Prophet Wizard of the Crayon Cake 22:43, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

NO! I BELIEVE IT SHOULD BE DELETED NOW!!!!!!!! I AM SHOCKED AND DEEPLY OFFENDED THAT AN ENCYCLOPEDIA AS FINE AS WIKIPEDIA WOULD CREATE SUCH AN INSULTING ARTICLE!!!!!! Ntyfj 18:23, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I am shocked an appalled you cannot follow basic Internet conventions on such a fine site as Misplaced Pages. But as it has been stated above, Misplaced Pages is not censored. If you want to discuss how this page needs to be revised, or in fact deleted, maybe you should divulge your reasoning other than that you are deeply offended, because that alone is a very hollow argument. --Jfowler27 20:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Get up off your fucking soapbox

Change the name to reflect politeness, go shag a donkey. --Maxasus 15:41, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Hahaha... how contradictory. ^_^ --The Prophet Wizard of the Crayon Cake 22:46, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I like this essay and disagree with the PROD nomination. WP is not censored, is not a democracy. If you don't like the article, don't read it. — David Spalding /Contribs 13:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Please Expand Article

DO NOT DELETE THIS ARTICLE Oh My God. Best article I ever read here on Misplaced Pages. Surprised it has not been deleted yet. So funny, I cannot help but request for it to be expanded upon. Two thumbs up to the author.  :) --The Jax 01:30, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, awright, I'll try to give a fuck sufficiently to add a little to The Little Essay That Couldn't (Give a Fuck). BTW, I love the userbox, but modified it a bit for my own use. David Spalding (☎ ✉ ✍) 04:16, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
DGAFThis user doesn't give a fuck and regards angry mastodons with amiable apathy.

WTF?

What kind of weak, sad article is this? Save your jokes for uncyclopedia. This is a real encyclopedia. Wolfdog 23:30, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

  1. It's not an article, it's an essay.
  2. Are you saying apathy is a joke?
  3. We know. oTHErONE (Contribs) 23:27, 31 December 2006 (UTC)


A sense of humour is necessary to "get" this essay. Just as it is with WP:NAM, WP:CHILL, WP:TIND, and manymanymany titles under Category:Wikipedia_essays. David Spalding (☎ ✉ ✍) 00:36, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
  1. I apologize for seeming as though I was trying to shoot down this page. I do think an idea such as "not-giving-a-fuckism" would be funny, however I do not understand what it has to do with an online encyclopedia. It just seems unnecessary or perhaps I simply do not understand its relevance. Maybe if this could be better-explained Wolfdog 03:31, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Comment

It's a very Buddhist idea that conflict comes from attachment (See Noble Truth #2) and can be solved only by apathy (See # 3), but it's not a universal idea. But I'm not sure that it is the best use of the Misplaced Pages policy space to promote such a very specific idea about where conflict comes from and how it can be solved, although of course essays, as personal opinions, have more leeway. There are other approaches, after all, to creating harmony. Perhaps it might be better to allow for them, and in particular to allow room for people who care about their opinions and views and explain how we can still be civil with each other, be respectful and fair to opposing ideas, and be careful to check facts while we have whatever opinions we have and give whatever fuck we give about them. This is, after all, most of us. In any event it might be good, even in a humorous essay, to say something like "The Buddha taught that..." and attribute the conflict-comes-from-attachment-and-is-solved-by-apathy idea rather than presenting it as fact or a Wikipediaism. Suggest that WP:NPOV is applicable even to an essay on WP:NPOV! Best, --Shirahadasha 21:09, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Sounds pretty good. Want to change the essay up a bit? Basically that's the idea behind it: attachment to Misplaced Pages is what causes dissarray. It's kind of ironic. The Prophet Wizard of the Crayon Cake 21:39, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Deletion

I wish to delete this article(Please do NOT curse at me, using that disgusting f*** word, or I shall report this at WP:Pain). This page is utter nonsense with a shocking amount of cursing and insulting other users. This page is of no coherent use to anyone, in my opinion. This is why I wish to propose a deletion. Anyone who agrees please sign below: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uioh (talk • contribs)

Cursing is not equivalent to insulting. Far from the contrary actually, this essay really has no intent of insulting or personally attacking anyone. If your main objection is simply the use of curse words, I don't really consider that proper grounds for deletion, as they are nothing more than mere words really. Despite their implied insult-like connotation, few of the "curse words" really mean anything insulting. "Fuck", for example, has evolved from a German word that means "to hit", to an English word that means "to have sexual intercourse", to a verb, noun, adjective, adverb, and gerund that has really no meaning at all. The point of the essay is to simply state a possible mindset or ideology one could take when dealing with Misplaced Pages. If you look beyond the "dirty" words, there's relatively little belligerent attitude taken in the essay.
On a more technical note, the proper place to recommend this for delicious deletion is Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for Deletion --The Prophet Wizard of the Crayon Cake 20:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Wow. He/she/it can't manage to sign their posts, yet they want to take all the naughty bits away from Misplaced Pages? How quaint. Isn't there a stoning or a book burning in their area that they are late for right about now? -- weirdoactor 22:00, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Well spank me raw. I've got me box of stones (Halal gravel perhaps?), my gas can and a box of matches. It's a crystal clear night; where do I meet up ?. I see from the proposers other edit e.g. that they feel that Misplaced Pages should censor articles. I don't really like this Disneyification of Misplaced Pages idea. Misplaced Pages is about consensus and WP:POINT come to mind given they seem to want to clean up Misplaced Pages and make it conform to a model for which no policy supports. The deletion of this article would mean that it's purpose and meaning is suspended so that I could be neutral in any WP:MFD discussion and thus I would have to by default give a f*ck. To preempt the attempt to delete this I feel that the consensus would be to keep the article and I would hope that they reconsider any attempt. To delete this article would mean to spike what it represents and I feel that is wrong. Ttiotsw 22:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
The problem with this argument for deletion is that there is little or no ground to it. I fail to see what part of this article is nonsensical and although in mainstream society many view various connotations of the word fuck to be inappropriate, but in this article the connotation is not negative. Fuck is used commonly in the modern American-English language as a filler word often with either strong emotional or apathetic connotations. The connotation used in this article is in the form of apathy, as in "I don't give a fuck." This apathetic frame of mind has been named using this phraseology and constructed into an ism. I do not see how this would lead to a deletion of the article.
Instead of trying to delete an article based on a weak argument, at best, maybe you could discuss how the article could be changed to better suit Misplaced Pages. If you think there are nonsensical portions or coherency problems you could help by pointing those out. Also try and ask yourself what you find disgusting about this article and its use of the word fuck. --Jfowler27 22:39, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm responding to this particular editor, if that's the right word, of the discussion as the logic seems clear and careful. As a new user not only of Misplaced Pages but also of the Net, I found some of the other responses on this page unclear (I don't understand the slang),scornful, and disrespectful in ways that seem to contradict editorial policy. This was very disappointing on an otherwise welcoming website.

I want to suggest reasons for editing the original article based on general and specific principles. Generally: Some contributors seem to say that censorship is unacceptable. However, if Misplaced Pages stands by its policies of respect for cultures, religions etc then it is indeed advocating censorship based on the assumption that humans (especially vulnerable ones such as children) have the right to be secure from assault, verbal or otherwise. I think this is fair. The people who use sarcasm and exaggerated allusions to criticise other people's requests for more moderate language may be happy to hear such rudeness about themselves but cannot therefore assume the right to be rude. There are good places for expressing strong opinions about other people's opinions but not on Misplaced Pages.

Specifically: I agree with the writer that fuck is commonly used but don't agree with the inference that that makes it acceptable. (The same false defence has been used in the past about other words now generally avoided e.g. words used by White people to describe Black slaves. Dr Johnson wrote in the 18th century: The antiquity of an abuse does not justify its continuation!) I personally find fuck offensive unless used for a purpose. It would be fine in the title -- grabs the reader's attention. But to repeat it so often in the text rather loses purpose, like the wit of a child who has learnt one joke and tells it a hundred times to anyone who will listen. Couldn't the word be replaced by an acronym? It was really a good article apart from this irritation. I found it while reading with great interest the lively articles on handling various mastodons. It would be good if this last essay were changed just slightly to reach the high level of the others80.189.23.217 01:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC)stoford.

If the word fuck is commonly used then it must be acceptable to those who are using it so commonly. The real question would be whether or not using the world fuck is necessary in this article, as per Misplaced Pages:Profanity. I think it can easily be argued either way. From my perspective, the connotation and context of the word make all the difference. It does not seem that fuck is being used in a negative context or connotation in the article.
Moreover, I do not see the article being saturated with the word fuck. By my count there are about 595 words in the article and a total of 24 uses of the word fuck or a form of it. This is only a ~4% saturation, which isn't too bad considering the article pertains to the creation of an ism using the word fuck.
In any case, I think we need to continue the discussion on this with more insight of why or why not fuck should be altered, removed, or left as is in the article. Should Misplaced Pages Use Profanity? I believe this article is an acceptable use a profanity, but it's still open to discussion as always. --Jfowler27 05:32, 13 January 2007
(UTC)
I personally don't care. Delete/replace/edit whatever you want. I won't take it personally. :P --The Prophet Wizard of the Crayon Cake 07:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

With all due respect, I personally wish for this page to be deleted. To me, it is quite pointless and offending to several users, as shown on the Rudeness setion of this page. I agree with them, so I beg of you, please delete this page. Thanks very much. After all, after all ,I do not really want to be cursed at, and I believe the F word is quite insulting. 69.122.3.19 17:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Deletion is not discussion. The deletionists, or Disneyification of WP movement really have no grounds to stand on IMHO other than "I don't like it." Waa, waa, waa. That this essay is now a lightning rod for knee-jerk censors and those who think that "I don't understand it, therefore it has no place here" is a testament to its relevancy. If you don't like the essay, don't read it. Go outside ... play in the sunshine ... do something nice for your neighbor ... leave the policing of WP to those who aren't as prone to outrage. Oh, and by the way,... DGAFF about registering, even though it might give credibility to your voice. Nyaaah! David Spalding (☎ ✉ ✍) 18:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me, but I believe you were unkind to the user 69.122.3.19. All he did was voice his personal opinion. I suggest you apologize to him at once, please. Uioh 20:37, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

You've forgotten something...

the main idea of this essay seems to be forgotten here. The point is to not care. If you're getting angered by a so-called "disneyfication of wikipedia" movement, you're doing the exact opposite of what the essay you support recommends you to do. If you're getting angered by pointless and superfluent use of the word fuck, or simply by the perceived lack of a point to this essay, you're caring entirely too much as well. Give the essay some time to evolve and it'll probably become less direct, more meaningful, and less controversial. -The Prophet Wizard of the Crayon Cake 20:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

On a more positive note...

I've cleaned up a few chunks of the essay to make it more coherant, and (possibly) less childish. I'm trying to quell the controversy that seems to have sprouted, while at the same time shaping it into a more meaningful idea of what I had in mind. -The Prophet Wizard of the Crayon Cake 20:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Can we please just be adults, eh?

If you're offended by the fact that the article makes repetitive use of the word "fuck", I suggest you understand that Misplaced Pages is not censored, and if it offends you that badly then don't look at it. In short, ignore the word fuck by not giving a fuck. DoomsDay349 00:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

No. You ignore that people don't like the word "fuck" by not giving a fuck. If we were all adults we'd all abide by WP:CIVIL and this essay would be deleted in a jiffy.. ;) --Kjoonlee 14:35, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages:Civility is an official policy. If you don't keep it, you risk being banished. --Kjoonlee 14:45, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the WP:CIVIL policy mainly concerned with the way users interact with Misplaced Pages (i.e. the way they edit and discuss on talk pages), not the decency of an article/essay? Misplaced Pages is also not a buracracy, "A perceived procedural error made in posting anything, such as an idea or nomination, is not grounds for invalidating that post." We usually do not threaten each other with banishment around here, since the normal way of resolving things on WP is to discuss how to best come up with a consensus, banning is not something taken lightly. Lastly, if you find that the use of the word fuck is unnecessary profanity, please discuss with us why you believe this, and how the article could best be improved. —Jfowler27 18:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
So would this article be better, for instance, if it had said "Don't give a hoot-ism?" That would please you? DoomsDay349 18:49, 15 January 2007 (UTC)