This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 68.188.151.245 (talk) at 01:26, 18 January 2007 (This is a talk page,, meaning peoples opinions to the content are worth while and are not considered vandalism, therefore need not be removed). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Revision as of 01:26, 18 January 2007 by 68.188.151.245 (talk) (This is a talk page,, meaning peoples opinions to the content are worth while and are not considered vandalism, therefore need not be removed)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff) | Biography Unassessed | ||||||
| |||||||
Revert
I have reverted the text by Painbearer as it was very poorly written (although I do understand that English is not the user's first language) and, although expansive, resulted in an article which was less useful in an encyclopedia than the previous edit, and was to be honest unrescuable. Rje 02:51, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Ooops. While the editor's name is still Painbearer and not Painbringer, I have reverted/clarified his latest edit. I don't believe 2,5 is common decimal notation for WikiPedia, is it? Also added source note for Jordan intending to write the other prequels *after* Book 12. (thank the Light!) Nae'blis 15:37:31, 2005-08-29 (UTC)
Changes To tWoT Bibliography
The Wheel of Time is obviously the most complex and far-reaching of Robert Jordan's works, with multiple 'companion' works in addition to the main sequence.
The intent of my recent cleanup is to simplify WoT written canon. Thus, while From The Two Rivers deserves a mention due to the added prologue, it *does not* deserve a mention due to it being illustrated, since it's of minimal importance in a general bibliography of Jordan's works.
If this were a complete bibliography (a worthy project for some other time) it would include record of different editions of the books (Hardcover vs. Softcover) revisions, and 'component' works released separately...
Such as 'Snow,' the prologue to Winter's Heart, released in E-book format prior to being included *in* Winter's Heart.
Or 'Glimmers,' which relates to Crossroads of Twilight in the same way.
Or 'The Strike At Shayol Ghul,' which was released online prior to its inclusion in "The World Of Robert Jordan's the Wheel of Time."
Under these new criteria, the New Spring novella's inclusion in this list might be just as unnecessary, given the existence of the novel, but that's more a matter of debate than any other change I have made...
Final Volume
The section "Final Volume" is very rough. For instance, it is unclear what, exactly, is meant by this sentence: "Jordan also said that he has already been working tightly on the installement."
I started to try to clean the section up, grammar-wise, but there are too many instances in which the previous author's intent is not clear enough for someone to be able to do so.
--Mac 19:35, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
Illness
I suppose something should be written about his Blog today confirming his illness, though I am not 100% sure it really belongs in an encyclopedic entry, and if it does how it should be done. Any ideas? http://www.dragonmount.com/RobertJordan/
- I added a couple of sentences earlier today -- see article history :) Ahasuerus 19:42, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
- I reverted a very POV edit on his illness. I hope I was not in error. GofG || Contribs 02:54, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
I made one minor change to fix a grammatical error in the section on Robert Jordan's illness: I changed optimistical to the correct form of the word, optimistic.
NPOV
The following reeks of non-NPOVness:
"The Wheel of Time Eleven books of a projected twelve total comprising the main sequence have been published thus far. Many fans of the earlier books have been disappointed by a change in Jordan's style over the course of the series. In particular, the pace of events has slowed significantly, with a greater focus on minor characters and politics at the cost of action. This is perhaps most evident in the tenth book, Crossroads of Twilight, which Jordan admitted in a 2005 Podcast interview was potentially his worst work to date."
- agreed - however this is a widely held view - needs citations and referencing to give it more credence and slightly rephrasing to take a more impartial slant :: Kevinalewis : /(Desk) 08:09, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- I've made a stab at a more npov rewrite with sources, let me know what you think. Nowimnthing 00:39, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Criticism section
This article really needs to describe the criticism of the guy's writing style. As far as I know, it is a prevalent view that Robert Jordan's style is slow-moving, the plot drawn out and the descriptions overly detailed (pages and pages describing the setting or scenery, without any plot). The views should eventually find their way into the article. --MrHumperdink 15:12, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- I'm gonna be honest: I'm on Lord of Chaos in the Wheel of Time series and I haven't yet seen anything described for "pages and pages" with no plot. :p Slow pacing? Yes, no doubt about it. But not that slow. RobertM525 08:21, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
I also don't agree with listing Tolkien as an influence, since Jordan (at least early on) shamelessly stole plot details and other things. An influence is also the Shannara books, which are also ripoffs of Tolkien. Maybe it being third-hand ripping off accounts for the poor quality of the series. 67.71.140.185 18:50, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Pictures
I have contacted the people at www.dragonmount.com about using one of their pictures of Jordan posted on his blog for the writer box. They are contacting Jordan and will get back with me. Hopefully we can get a pic up soon. Nowimnthing 17:48, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
External links
With the recent addition of more Wheel of time fansite links, I think we should trim this down a bit. Let's just keep links to stuff about Jordan on here. The Wheel of Time page has ample space for fansite links, we don't need to reproduce that here. Nowimnthing 17:51, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes I concur. To many external links are unimportant to the general tone of the page and take up too much space. If we allowed a link for every fansite link it would clog and clutter the page.
Mystar 23:56, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Quotes
I added quotes to this page because i think there is a lot of good quortes in his books
- i didnt specify a ook in my quote becasue he has that quote in most books of the wheel of time
- we should add more qoutes
Pandagrizzly 18:34, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
- Personally I think this section needs to be removed. It's not encyclopedic or relevant. It detracts from the overall quality of the article. --59.167.75.221 06:09, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
links
i think that the gaint web of links for about every aspect of the books is a little bit .. exstinsive. not just externalk links i mean like u can follow links from asha'man and go all the way up to sammeul jyust a bit to much
Wheel of Time Role-playing Game
I would suggest adding a reference to the Wheel of Time Role-playing Game under the accessory works to the Wheel of Time.
Influences
I added Frank Herbert as an influence, because the obvious parallels between Herbert's Fremen and Jordan's Aiel. Furthermore, Paul Artreides and Rand Al'Thor are both the Messiah figures in the mythologies of these respective peoples. Herbert's Bene Gesserit and Jordan's Aes Sedai have obvious parallels as well. The only have female members, are waiting for a male with similar gifts to be born and strive to manipulate politics and history itself.
I also consider Marion Zimmer Bradley an influence. Zimmer Bradley's Morgaine (Mists of Avalon) and Jordan's Morgaine are both darkhaired and short. Morgaine is the daughter of a duke and was trained in Avalon and Moraine is a member of the former royal house of Cairhien and was Trained in Tar Valon. King Arthur receives a dragon tattoo on each wrist during an initiation in Mists of Avalon. Rand Al'Thor finds he has a dragon markings on both arms after he has gone through the trials of an Aiel chief in Fires of Heaven.
Sofie Munter 15:23, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
- I reverted the addition of Herbert and Bradley. I don't disagree, but this is not the place for what 'we' think his influences are, it is for what Jordan personally cites as his influences. I think we have a source for Jordan talking about Tolkien as an influence.
- Without sources from the author we would end up with some huge list because we could find parallels with almost any author if we looked hard enough. Especially in an author like this who is using mythological archetypes. Nowimnthing 16:16, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
- Agreed, with the caveat that we can also use published sources that cite any of these examples. Our opinions as readers are original research; a published dissertation or even a literary critic's analysis would be citeable. -- nae'blis 16:18, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I did not refer to archetypes but to very specific things. The dragon markings (Mists of Avalon - Shadow Rising) are not an archetype. Moreover, the commercial success of Mists of Avalon started a trend in fantasy the Wheel of Time series is very much a part of. Marion Zimmer Bradley made blatant use of Arthurian motives and characters in fantasy very popular. Parallels with Frank Herbert's work are very obvious and specific as well. A manipulative organisation with an exclusive female membership (Bene Gessirit - Aes Sedai) that is looking for their Messiah figure (Kwisatz Haderach - Dragon Reborn), A desert people (Fremen - Aiel) who have been influenced by said manipulative organisation to believe in profecies about this Messiah figure. In both series the protagonist turns out to be said Messiah figure. The article on Rand Al'Thor on Misplaced Pages also discusses similarities between Rand and Paul Artreides. I am hardly the first to point out certain similarities between the works of Herbert and Jordan. The examples I mentioned are far too specific to be coincidental considering that the Dune series and Mists of Avalon predate the Wheel of Time. I added these two authors as influences because the paralells with their works are blatantly obvious. Stating the obvious is not original research. Sofie Munter 11:42, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
- Do not be defensive, we are not attacking, just trying to keep the article up to standards. Like nae'blis said if you can find a published source linking the authors to jordan we can put them back up. The title Dragon associated with either Merlin or King Arthur go back centuries before Bradley used it. From your reasoning we could also cite Star Wars as an influence, it predates the WOT, it is about a rural boy who is destined for greater things and uses a magical sword. He resists the lure of evil and madness. He is gravely wounded the first time he fights his ultimate enemy. etc, etc. Even the story of jesus follows a similar arc. Read The Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell. Nowimnthing 16:03, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
I noticed parallels between this and Donaldson's The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. Warders who have taken oaths to protect people need little sleep and obey without question much like the Bloodguards. Loial, the giant that was always considered quick to act although he seems slow to everyone else is much like Foamfollower. The man who destroyed the world in his dispair and was prophesised to return also occurs in both (Lews Therin Kinslayer -> Berek Halfhand). Also Kinslayer is a title given to one of the characters in Covenant. Also, the Avendesora relates to some other mythical tree in Donaldson's book that the name escapes me at the moment.
James Oliver Rigney jr.
I think we should change the article to his real name obviousley we would include redirects for his pen names though. Jamhaw 18:25, 16 January 2007 (UTC)jamhaw
- "If people published under one or more pen names and/or their own name, the best known of these names is chosen."
- I think it is clear that Jordan is by far best known of the names he goes by including his legal name. Someone can do a WP:Google test if they want but I think I know how it will turn out. Nowimnthing 19:27, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah but there is a difference between H.G. Wells and this not only that but this isn't the only penname he uses there are plenty of others he's got and we should use his real name like the H.G. Wells article. 216.174.135.175 18:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC)jamhaw