Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by BeenAroundAWhile (talk | contribs) at 05:43, 21 May 2021 (→Tsk tsk!: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

RfC

Hiya, are you fit enough to participate in that RfC ?Halbared (talk) 14:04, 28 March 2021 (UTC) The one about having the names of actors in the plot.Halbared (talk) 08:27, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Halbared - Yes, I know I've left you hanging on this. Believe it or not, it's still on my "to do" list, sitting on my desk right in front of me, I haven't forgotten. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:44, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Brilliant! Thanks.Halbared (talk) 08:21, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

And BTW, my apologies. Beyond My Ken (talk) 08:27, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Regarding Ferahgo the Assassin and R&I

This is in response to your comment on Ferahgo's talk page today. She hasn't just returned to editing in the R&I area; she has, after weeks of planning, opened a new RfC aiming to overturn last year's consensus. Shit is of course, predictable, hitting the fan. Generalrelative (talk) 19:41, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Well, ArbCom should be shitting their collective pants for letting her off the hook. Is anyone planning to open a new arbitration request? Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:51, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Not that I know of. MjolnirPants raised the possibility of reinstating her t-ban but has also expressed reservations about bringing issues before the "drama boards" so soon after returning. As for myself, I'm only coming up on a year of active editing so would be hesitant to do it. Generalrelative (talk) 22:09, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

I really don't want to participate at the drama board, because even good editors seem to have a habit of losing 20-30 IQ points when they get sucked into an argument on one (and yes, that includes me).

But, given the circumstances here (the documented existence of a well-defined consensus on this very question, both within the scientific community and on WP), I will support any request for sanctions on any of the core group of editors causing problems now, namely Ferahgo, Stonkaments, Gardenofaleph and new editor (who claims to be an experienced editor) Dashoopa. I'm aware that there are other editors supporting them, namely DGG and AndewNguyen, but I haven't seen anything resembling disruption from them.

I will not make any such request myself, because there are a number of editors who are frequent flyers on the drama boards still who think my use of colorful language is "the biggest problem" with WP. And no, those aren't scare quotes. See my earlier mention of IQ loss. Me filing the case would immediately bias a number of editors against it. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 22:54, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't think my status at AN/ANI is very high right now either, and I would be hesitant to file in any case because it would mean digging into the discussion to corral the facts, which I'm absolutely certain would do nothing but infuriate me and raise my already high blood pressure. From my perusal of the discussion, it seems like @JzG: might be interested.What I can't understand is why ArbCom isn't instigating an investigation themselves, considering the circumstances. They -- a previous committee -- unleashed what was essentially a trojan horse on the community on the assumption that FtA was past those opinions, which is obviously not true.I'm also extremely disturbed at DGG's participation, along with his recent statements at AE advocating using unreliable sources to achieve "balance". Something is very wrong there, and I'm not sure he would maintain the trust of a large part of the community if they knew that he was advocating fringe science and relaxing our standards to allow unreliable right-wing sources to be used, all because he's convinced -- due to his own personal experiences as a red diaper baby -- that we have a left-wing bias. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:42, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

I've e-mailed ArbCom, but I doubt they'll do jack. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:13, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm also extremely disturbed at DGG's participation, along with his recent statements at AE advocating using unreliable sources to achieve "balance". Have you checked out his user page, where he wrote that there are only 2 WP policies he fully agree with? Also, those two are asking potential BLP subject if they want an article when possible and (at least this is my read of it) using IAR in deletion discussions. Not, you know, WP:V or WP:NPOV.

Not only do I have serious doubts as to whether either of those actually is a policy, I find the notion that an admin (and former Arb, I believe) would disagree with, for example, WP:V even in part rather disturbing.

Funny thing is, I actually agree that WP has a left-wing bias. I've agreed with that for a long time, and discussed it a few times. The thing is, though, it's not a very large bias, and half of it is due to the unreliability of right-wing sources; something which is entirely out of our hands. And the other half is not likely to be entirely the product of Wikipedians' personal biases, either. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 04:45, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Given the place the right-wing is in today, reality has a left-wing bias, because, all things being equal, the left is much more reality-based that the right is. Not that it doesn't have its nut jobs too, but these days they're much less of a threat to freedom than the right wing ones are. DGG seems stuck in a Cold War rebound mentality which, to me, bears little relationship to the real world. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:59, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Beyond My Ken, DGG is one of the Wikipedians whose instincts I have always considered entirely sound, but this really causes me to question that. I know he has a principled objection to DS, and I don't presume to try to second-guess why, but his statements re Feragho seem to me to completely miss the point, in a way that I don't recall ever seeing from DGG before.

It's fine to have a view on whether a specific view is fringe, and whether people should be tbanned but this is really a dead easy question: can Feragho use RSN as a pretext to override a well-attended RfC on the page in question, when the question is not the reliability of the sources but their appropriateness in context. A malformed "RfC" in the wrong venue, stated tendentiously, is not a great thing to be defending, regardless of your views on the rights and wrongs of the previous RfC. Guy (help! - typo?) 11:11, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

The thing I find most disheartening is the fact that 99% of the argumentation and sourcing there is not "the scientific consensus is different than what we decided last year," but "the thing we decided was the scientific consensus is wrong". Even DGG, who should damn well know better, is arguing for the hereditarian explanation, not arguing about what the consensus is. The whole thing is the most transparent POV push I've ever seen. There's barely even any pretense, here. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 15:28, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

I found it bizarre that DGG got the history exactly backwards, despite having lived through most of the historical period he was talking about. The scientific consensus has moved steadily away from scientific racism. After all, Jensen was published in the Harvard Educational Review. I very much doubt that the Harvard Educational Review would publish such racist crap now. NightHeron (talk) 00:15, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

BMK; Given the place the right-wing is in today, reality has a left-wing bias, because, all things being equal, the left is much more reality-based that the right is. That is the leading contender for explaining the other half, as far as I'm concerned. And as for that cold-war mentality... It's so prevalent that there a WP article about a common response to it. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 15:28, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

In the Baidu Baike deprecation RfC DGG stated that Baidu Baike, China's Misplaced Pages analogue, was a usable source because Unlike WP, the work is reviewed, first by their " expert team with over 2,500 members, including university professors" and second by the political censors. The censorship makes it of course of dubious value in some fiels , but not all. Aside from the fact that Baidu Baike's reviewing quality is questionable, the claim that political censorship adds to source reliability is certainly erm, novel, to say the least. Hemiauchenia (talk) 15:58, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

I just want to drop this here. It's pertinent to the subject of expert reviews in China. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:03, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

We're getting off-topic here, but the vast majority of Baidu Baike articles aren't even reviewed by experts. As far I understand Baidu Baike has something like pending-changes protection on Misplaced Pages, where all edits are subject to approval by administrators before going live. While that's likely to catch blatant vandalism, It probably won't catch anything else. Hemiauchenia (talk) 16:20, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Just FYI, Ferahgo has raised the possibility to Stonkaments of launching an arbitration request themselves: Pinging MjolnirPants, Guy, Hemiauchenia and NightHeron in case they'd like to know too. Nice to have some forewarning about such things I imagine. Generalrelative (talk) 22:43, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

My response tot hat would be: bring it. Guy (help! - typo?) 22:46, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

I hope they get AndewNguyen to put in the ArbCom request. He did such a good job last year! NightHeron (talk) 00:01, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm not walking back anything I said above, but god I hope they follow through on this. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 03:46, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Updates:

User talk:Ferahgo the Assassin#A different approach

User talk:DGG#RfC/Arbitration on R&I

Generalrelative (talk) 15:17, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

• As I mentioned above, I contacted ArbCom by email about this situation, and I suggested that ArbCom created the problem by allowing Ferahgo the Assassin to return to editing, so ArbCom ought to take upon itself an investigation of the matter. As expected, the answer I received was that ArbCom had discussed the matter, but would require a public request to be made before it would look into it.

So much for an institution taking responsibility for its actions. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:23, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the update. FYI DGG has commented on his talk page discouraging Stonkaments from pursuing the matter. Generalrelative (talk) 17:55, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

I just read that. It's generally good advice, and more or less well-written, too. Might be worth preserving as an essay. I do take issue with the presumption that the majority is biased here: for the record, I believed without reservation that the observed IQ differenced between races was entirely or predominantly genetic in origin as recently as 2015-2016, and it was precisely the result of my research into this issue (started with the purpose of reassuring myself that I was totally right to believe that since all the "experts" like Rushton and Jensen said so) that changed my mind. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 20:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Brescia

Another one, from ANI Acroterion (talk) 13:40, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:32, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

New user

I agree that the editor looks suspicious, but he doesn't remind me of anyone. It'll be mildly interesting to see if he goes away as he says he will.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:54, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:07, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.Sergow (talk) 09:23, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

And there is that new user, Bbb23 bleating like a sheep at ANI. Beyond My Ken (talk) 10:31, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

A rather noisy and verbose sheep.--Bbb23 (talk) 13:02, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

And User:Skews Peas has been blocked as a sock. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:21, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

• User talk:Brogo13 has user complaints about speaking in riddles, bad edit summaries, etc. Now that he was found as a sock it's all out in the open. WhisperToMe (talk) 19:24, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

• I knew there was something amiss about Skews Peas, but I wasn't familiar with Brogo13. Should be easier now to recognize any new socks. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:59, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

Don't know if you would prefer tea or coffee. You manage to attract some interesting enemies, and can use a mild stimulant occasionally. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:53, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Tea is fine, thank you, a nice cuppa Earl Grey would be good. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:35, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

OneClickArchiver misbehaving at Talk:John J. Pershing

Happened to me here and then I noticed it also happened to you here. OneClickArchiver is placing content in the wrong Archive. It should be placing content in Archive 5 but it is instead placing it in Archive 1. I can't quite see why - am assuming some nicety of the page names' nomenclature is messing things up - but it needs to be fixed. Any ideas? Help... Shearonink (talk) 14:17, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

heh, if you go to that page you will find that Thewolfchild manually-archived content - which of course works wonderfully - but I still would like to know why OneClick wasn't working. Someone will come along in the future and use OneClick and it will *again* place the content on the wrong archive page.... Shearonink (talk) 14:23, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

OneClickArchiver uses any bot archiving template that may be on the talk page. For example, the MiszaBot template at Talk:Dwight D. Eisenhower. That template has a line pointing to the current archive (Archive 4). If there is no archiving template, it appears that OneClickArchiver defaults to creating Archive 1. EdJohnston (talk) 14:41, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

EdJohnston I think I understood what you just posted...I'll create an auto-archiving template then, to forestall any possible future problems. I've run into this issue before...do you think this is a bug that should/could be fixed? Shearonink (talk) 15:44, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

I have read that OneClickArchiver is not currently maintained. But what would you have it do instead? EdJohnston (talk) 15:54, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

I think probably a lot of people use OneClickArchiver and expect it to work and never look at *where* it is actually placing the archived content. If Misplaced Pages is in the business of maintaining a true archive of its talkpages with an appropriate timeline then OneClick should do its job as expected by the majority of its users without having to be tweaked and checked every time.

I would have OneClick automatically take the archived content to the most recent Archive page even if auto-archiving isn't enabled. Shearonink (talk) 16:19, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

@Shearonink: As I mentioned on my tp, you could try posting about this at WP:VPT, you'd likely get more feedback and answers, perhaps even have oneclickarchiver point to a script that is still being maintained (as there seems to be more than one). - wolf 17:43, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Thewolfchild - I posted at VPT, I was just answering Ed's question here. Cheers, Shearonink (talk) 20:20, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

• Folks: Thanks for the very interesting discussion, I'll follow up the subject on the VPT thread. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:30, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Streicher

Book (example) https://books.google.de/books?id=IX4f1Oe1obEC&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=%22Julius+Sebastian+Streicher%22&source=bl&ots=nmVydkRxlL&sig=ACfU3U39O_WicjaWxJyS8aHkU54UR_Q5fQ&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwizk5np_bTwAhVSKewKHQoJDrgQ6AEwEnoECA4QAw#v=onepage&q=%22Julius%20Sebastian%20Streicher%22&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:8109:b40:7abc:9931:44ad:66ac:854a (talk) 08:13, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

I do not read German, but as far as I can tell, all the references to "Julius Sebastian Streicher" are to him as a child, which says to me that he stopped using the name as an adult, in which case it would not be appropriate to include it in the article as his name. It's also interesting that only German-language references mention "Sebastian", no English-language reference seems to do so. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:59, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Now that's some logic. If I want to know about the Yanomami, I should not look for birth certificates in Greenland or Australia. It is the same with the German Streicher.

Those funky Harv warnings...

Like that single one at John J. Pershing? Hoo-boy, take a look at the "Harv warning" mess I stumbled upon recently at Good article Oliver Cromwell's head... Yikes. Shearonink (talk) 16:50, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Madison Square Garden III.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Madison Square Garden III.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Yeeno (talk) 🍁 02:54, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Merging

In accordance with WP:MERGE. The discussion belongs on the target page for the merger, I'll quote directly

For example, if suggesting that Foo be merged into Bar, create a proposal in a new section at Talk:Bar. Start a new section at the bottom of that talk page and include the proposal itself, the list of the affected pages, and a merger rationale.

Hence the discussion belongs at Talk:Picture frame and not Talk:Fillet (picture framing) or Talk:Picture framing. Note, I previously moved it. Regards, 31.41.45.190 (talk) 17:47, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 12

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Pretty Maids All in a Row, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Milton.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:56, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Fixed. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:33, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

greater germanic reich

see the history of file regarding karelia (in the source karelia is part of the greater germanic reich: https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Greater_Germanic_Reich.png

this was already discussed then, also why is the new picture better? Gooduserdude (talk) 15:28, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Please STOP removing sourced information, it is VANDALISM

If you remove reliably sourced information again, as you did at Betty Boop, you will be reported for vandalism. 197.87.63.222 (talk) 07:05, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

You've obviously never read WP:UNDUE. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:06, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

That isn't the issue at all, and you know that. You are using WP:SYNTHESIS to push your WP:POV. And actual WP:RS show the truth. So, you don't want actual WP:RS. Or you lie about what WP:RS say, like you did with Robert O'Meally.

You've been partially blocked from editing two articles, are you trying to be WP:Topic baned from the subject entirely? Don't post to my talk page again. Beyond My Ken (talk) 12:11, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Big Boss

Hey big boss could you sent me the link to the sockpuppet investigation (regarding my account) that you started? I can't find it. It's not on the list anymore. Schenkstroop (talk) 13:40, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Nope. Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:48, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Ha after some digging I found it. I'm really sorry for you it didn't work out. Must be really hard for you, you know, people disagreeing with you.. Schenkstroop (talk) 17:11, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Yup. Be seeing you. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:48, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Fifth Avenue Girl stars

As I stated in my reversion comment, the consensus is that any actor billed in movie posters belongs in the infobox. I didn't notice that three more actors (beyond the ones I restored) are also on the poster in the article. I'm going to check at the film wikiproject if they too need to be added. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:44, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

On further consideration, I think Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style/Film is the place to ask. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:48, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Actors billed above the title are the stars of the film. Editors billed below -- if there are actors above the title -- are not stars. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:49, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Tsk tsk!

"Please get your facts straight before you criticize your fellow editors." That's not nice. Best wishes to you, BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 05:43, 21 May 2021 (UTC)