User talk:Jimbo Wales - Misplaced Pages

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Archives

Index -index-

As of January 16, 2003

Emergency!! Invitation from Business Weekly Magazine in Taiwan

Hi Jimmy:

My name is Hung-ta Lin. The senior reporter of Business Weekly magazine in Taiwan. I really have an emergency here. People in Academia Sinica told me you agree to interview with us on March 10 in Japan. But we don't know the time, place and other details of this interview.

Before we fly to Japan for this interview, we wish to discuss all details with you. So we really need to know how to contact you.

This interview is different. We let you decide which topic you want to talk. It will be a special report or cover story. The report may contain 10 pages or more. So, it takes some time for us to discuss the detailes. I sent my proposal to you jwales@wikia.com and wikispeaker@gamil.com account. The subject is "An invitation from Business Weekly magazine in Taiwan to Misplaced Pages founder Jimmy Wales".

My email account is hung@mail2000.com.tw. My another email account is hung@bwnet.com.tw I really need to contact with you!! Please send me an email as soon as possible!

Thank you very much

Hung-ta Lin

Business Weekly magazine: the most popular magazine in Taiwan.

Dear Jimbo Wales

After some serious thinking I decided to stop contrubing to wikipedia. The site has become a source of stress due to someone’s Trolling over their obsession over others editors to contribution to “his” articles and scorn them because they have a different opinion based on fact by citing their sources and the troller having “ the my way or the highway “ attitude. If Misplaced Pages is become a reliable open scoure Encyclopedia then the articles have to be based on fact rather than one person bent on bending the truth and putting down editors down when they report the facts.

MySpace blogs

Greetings. This edit by Raul654 indicates that you wished for MySpace blogs to be added to the spam blacklist. I was wondering if you would be willing to reconsider this. Many celebrities, especially musicians, use MySpace to communicate with their fans, and confirm through links to and from their websites that the profiles are theirs. For example, I came to notice this through the article on Straight Outta Lynwood, the newest album by "Weird Al" Yankovic. Yankovic links to his MySpace profile on his website, and uses his MySpace blog to communicate with his fans. Some of his blog postings were being used as sources in the article, but now they have been removed. I would appreciate your thoughts on this issue. --Maxamegalon2000 21:13, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

There are other sources to use. A release of note should be announced elsewhere than blogs, so use that. You undercut your own argument -- blogs are for communicating and getting feedback from fans, not as reputable, reliable sources for online encyclopedias. --Elar a girl 02:14, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. There is a gap between the amount of coverage required to be notable, and the amount of coverage required to have maintstream media parrot every significant annoucement a band makes. Swami is an example of one of the bands that falls between the two, being an extremely notable bhangra band, but still bhangra at that. (With absolutely no snobbery, I would guess that many readers of this page won't know what bhangra is.) I don't see why we shouldn't cite Myspace for their annoucements, subject to the usual provisions (not unduly self-serving, etc.)

I don't know what the original reason for blacklisting Myspace blogs was, but it should be overturned. A blanket ban is not appropriate. If Swami or some other non-mainstream but equally notable band announce something important via the Myspace blog, it's still citable, and I'll still cite it, because it's still obviously a valid source. I just won't be able to link to it directly, and direct links are not required for citations. --Sam Blanning 02:57, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I think for Misplaced Pages to go on about having references and citing sources but then to not allow citing of information just because it's on a blog on MySpace even if the author has been verified and is considered a reliable source is a bit hypocritical. What about blogs on Blogger, LiveJournal or Xanga? Why are blogs on MySpace blacklisted, whereas others are not. Isn't this a bit biased against MySpace? Aren't you going against Misplaced Pages fundamental principals? - kollision 07:48, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

The discussion is ongoing here. Your alleged decision essentially removes a massive, useful repository of primary sourcing material, and it's completely unexplained and makes no apparent sense. Some explanation would be very much appreciated. --badlydrawnjeff talk 21:07, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I captured the blog.myspace.com links as of 08:00, 19 January 2007 (UTC) and pasted them into a user subpage at User:A. B./Sandbox9

Here's the breakdown:

5 links in 5 Image pages
42 links in 42 Article talk pages
19 in 17 User talk pages
42 in 40 User pages
1 in a Misplaced Pages talk page
49 in 45 Misplaced Pages pages
- 9 links in old articles for creation requests
- 32 links in AfD or VfD pages and logs
- 8 links in other Misplaced Pages
52 in 43 Article pages

Here's a link to the current list of articles with these links. Folks can judge the value of the links for themselves; personally, I think that, yes, a few blogs belonging to the notable subjects of articles may have been blocked but that many more inappropriate links have been blacklisted, so I don't see all the fuss. --A. B. 01:35, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think it would be wrong to assume that this list is representative of the types of links used before they were blacklisted, which was over a week ago. As a result of the blacklisting, good, well-sources articles were left uneditable until these links, many of which were sources of information, were removed. It would seem to me that the links already removed would have been nearly exclusively from heavily-edited pages. --Maxamegalon2000 02:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

So does a request by Jimbo (and the edit comment called it a request) amount to an order? If not then the suggestion to blacklist should have been discussed. If so then stop pretending we do things by consensus and label it as an order from Jimbo. I am fully aware there will be times when Jimbo must make a rapid executive decsision but I am at a loss to understand why this was one of them.82.41.98.219 00:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm wondering this, too. Jimbo, can you please comment on this as it has caused a huge red-tape problem for many users and pages. --Liface 03:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Smile

Pikminlover has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Happy editing!

India visit

Hi Jimbo, There is news going round that you are coming to India . Make sure to get down at Ahmedabad. as Nearly Headless Nick says three admins hail from there, and see who awaits you there. three little monkeys] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Amdabadi (talk • contribs) 18:58, 24 January 2007 (UTC).

d00d. That's not even me. Its User:Jai Pratap Singh and his yucky friends from Gandhinagar. I see that you have managed to get an administrator to send you the deleted edits from my userpage. — Nearly Headless Nick 13:23, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

DOES HS ALSO STICK HIS FINGER UP LIKE YOU THE FELLOW ON THE LEFT OF THE PHOTOGRAPH DO? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.66.92.227 (talk) 15:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC).

Unblock

Could you please unblock 202.76.162.34? (I don't want to create an account for that IP address.)

Please contact the blocking administrator. --Deskana (request backup) 02:24, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I can't find any block log for that IP. Perhaps you mistyped the number? However, Deskana's right: contact the blocking admin. Yuser31415 (Editor review two!) 02:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

The above link links to the article 202.76.162.34 rather than the intended User:202.76.162.34. I altered this when I opened the link. --Deskana (request backup) 02:35, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Aha. Yuser31415 (Editor review two!) 03:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I guess you're right...Anyway, why did you guys answer when Jimbo is supposed to answer? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.181.139.197 (talk) 09:03, 26 January 2007 (UTC).

Because we're Jimbo's slaves who do his bidding for him. ;) -→Buchanan-Hermit™/?! 09:05, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Imagine peer-reviewed scientific original-research on Wikia

Imagine peer reviewed scientific original research on Wikia. I read this and thought of you. Cheers. 4.250.168.119 03:30, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Problem on Polish Misplaced Pages

Hi!

I would like to tell you about very unpleasant and embarrassing situation on Polish Misplaced Pages.

Like on every other language wikipedia users of wikipedia-pl with vulgar or "almoust vulgar" (in Levenshtein distance way) account name are blocked forever because of "unacceptable account name". Which is fine and reasonable.

Whats not fine a reasonable is that one of the wikipedia-pl sysops has account name Kotasik which is "almoust vulgar" (Kutasik in Polish is vulgarism for "little penis").

I wrote to Kotasik telling him that situation, when beginner user of wikipedia is blocked because of vulgar account name by sysop with vulgar account name is unacceptable - what this begginer user would think? Probably "well, I see that wikipedia treats sysop better, they're above wikipedia law" - which is of course not true.

As I said I wrote to Kotasik about that, I tried to to convince him of changing his acc name. He said "no, but try RFC mechanism if you want to"

So I made RFC, where I wrote that for wikipedia good Kotasik should change his acc. My IP have been blocked because of "trolling", RFC was deleted and when I tried to talk about on wikipedia-pl irc channel, I was banned from them, which confirm my supposition that Polish sysops think that their above wikipedians law.

Thank You and sorry for interrupting, but I have no idea who shuld I tell that Mencio 07:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

about your visit to India

Dear Jimbo, I happened to know that you are coming to India in the near future. I think I should alert you about a possible legal tangle. One pettifogging advocate who used to edit wikipedia (merely advertising himself and his friends) got banned as a sock puppet. However, somebody published some libelous comments on him and one of his friends who is a senior government officer. They are also with a nest of petty journos who practise unethical journalism. One of them may try to contact you for an interview. Decline it outright. Then there is a rumou that the advocate fellow is trying to file a defamation case against the foundation. As you don't chair the foundation any longer, you may not be involved in the tangle. Still caution is the watchword. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Recurrrrer (talk • contribs) 08:00, 26 January 2007 (UTC).

Personal attack??

Hello! I recently wrote a page Misplaced Pages:Argumentum ad Jimbonem describing how some people treat your word as The Law and that they probably shouldn't do that. Another editor believes the page is a personal attack against you, and wants it deleted. So I thought I should ask you if you're offended by this page. >Radiant< 10:18, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Brian Peppers

Jimbo Why did you delete the Brian peppers article? Why are you contradicting your purpose by censoring a valid article. Brian peppers is Internet celebrity and should be known for the impact he had on the internet and websites like ytmnd —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.235.211.41 (talk • contribs).

Originally this comment was left on Jimbo's user page, I moved it here. --Deskana (request backup) 10:24, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Tim Pierce situation

Jimbo, your input to WP:ANI#Further on the Professor Tim Pierce situation, WP:ANI#Tim Pierce is *not* a professor! WP:ANI#Tim Pierce: Over the top would be greatly appreciated. I wouldn't normally think to bother you, and have not one dog in this fight, but the notion that we might be ruining people's careers is more than I'm willing to accept without making some noise.Proabivouac 11:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Can I second this - please take a look, even if you feel it is inappropriate for you to comment. --Fredrick day 21:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Jimbo, You've said the matter was resolved but not what the resolution was. Is Tim Pierce going to repeat the exercise? Regards, Ben Aveling 09:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I talked to him, he apologized, he said he would not do it again. It was very simple. Many instructors have made the same error. Nothing to see, really.--Jimbo Wales 00:39, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo, thank you very much for stepping in to state this matter has been completely resolved. CyberAnth 19:17, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Another iteration of the fair use debate

Could you please have a look at Misplaced Pages talk:Fair use? It currently hosts a debate between fair use proponents and opponents (covering the entire spectrum between ‘anything that’s legal’ and ‘no fair use at all’) and has now progressed to discussing changes to Misplaced Pages:Fair use which I think are neither well supported in general nor compliant with Misplaced Pages:Five pillars. One of the underlying issues is whether increasing the quality of Misplaced Pages is a blanket justification for the use of non-free material. This is particularly visible in Misplaced Pages talk:Fair use#Primary_and_secondary_goals, where you are quoted in the first post and I’d appreciate it if you could clarify the official position. (Disclosure: I’m one of the ‘less fair use’ people and have participated in the debate, so I’m biased.) —xyzzy_n 13:14, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

An important clarification is needed here. No one in the debate is a "fair use proponent". Everyone agrees there are advantages to free content. However, we allow fair use images. That is a fact. So long as we allow fair use images, then there will be discussion about the proper boundaries. To use one of your phrases, you seem to think that removing fair use content is a "blanket justification" for lowering our quality. Hopefully that is not the case. Hopefully we will keep using legally permissible fair use material where it captures knowledge and serves our readers to do so. Johntex\ 15:12, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

An aspect of the above debate seems to be the question of whether Misplaced Pages's "freeness" is a primary goal, or whether it's just a nice thing to have, but one we can put aside whenever it becomes inconvenient. (A quote from the debate: "The primary goal on Misplaced Pages is to create a high-quality encyclopedia which can be used by downstream users. The use of free content is very important, but ancillary, to this goal.") As far as I understand it, this is not up for debate. It's saddening, although not surprising, that people are willing to sideline and compromise on the issue of freedom (as in speech). I understand the motivation: people want to make the best free as in beer encyclopedia possible, but I think we need to be clear on this. — Matt Crypto 15:27, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
- Absolutely we need to be clear. We need to be clear that our primary goal on this project is to build the best encyclopeida we can build. Our GFDL license ensures we are making a tremendous contribution to free content along the way. Importantly, though, we have not banned fair use, etiher for photos or for text. If we want to be totally free (which I think would be a mistake) then we should ban all fair use images and all fair use quotations. Since we have not done so, that specifically means that how much fair use content we allow is very much open for discussion. Johntex\ 15:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
  - There are two issues: 1) When, where and how much fair-use content we use — and yes, this is certainly open for discussion, but we must be discussing it from the basis that: 2) freedom is a primary goal of the project. As I understand it, "2" is essentially axiomatic, and not up for negotiation. We're "Misplaced Pages, the free encyclopedia". The problem with the current debate is that "2" is being challenged, and some people are pushing to change our fair use policy based on the idea that freedom is only a secondary concern. Creating free content is not a happy coincidence "along the way" to writing an encyclopedia; it's absolutely fundamental to what we do. — Matt Crypto 16:58, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Good grief! I certainly didn’t mean to drag the debate here. Sorry. —xyzzy_n 15:57, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

See the http://wikimediafoundation.org/Home for the answer. Ask yourself whether you would rather have freedom or knowledge for the reason. WAS 4.250 16:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello

Hi, I am editing with a spoof of your username because I can't think of anything creative that the admins won't block indefinitely! I tried making usernames like User:Misplaced Pages Vandalizer ;-) but they don't like that! --James Donal "Jimbo" Wales 16:58, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

User now (unsurprisingly) blocked for username violation. WJBscribe 18:21, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

"Do no harm"

But an administrator has begun a course of action here that could get a man removed his entire career. WWest 21:19, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Won't be the first time someone's screwed up their career by vandalizing Misplaced Pages. --Carnildo 23:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Television episodes

Hey, when you wrote: "Why shouldn't there be a page for every Simpsons character, and even a table listing every episode, all neatly crosslinked and introduced by a shorter central page like the above? Why shouldn't every episode name in the list link to a separate page for each of those episodes, with links to reviews and trivia?" did you mean that as a blanket statement that every popular television show should have an article about each one of it's episodes? Salad Days 01:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

When did I say that? It would be fun to look at the context, since I am not sure that I agree now. I think we have learned over time that it is hard to do content at that level of detail without getting into some very difficult territory for reliability, verifiability, and accuracy. I now think that such articles are not a very good idea. (This, like that, is not a decree, just a very mild sort of opinion, of course.) When did I say that?

Anyway, in general, I do not think that MOST shows should have an article about each episode. Maybe The Simpsons, just because it's the greatest show in history. :) --Jimbo Wales 00:38, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

You didn't say that (though you agreed). See the first revision (and current version) of m:Wiki is not paper. —Cryptic 01:00, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification, guys. I was trying to figure out the consensus on this, because of some horrible Gilmore Girls articles which just consist of plot summaries and virtually nothing else. I nominated a few for deletion here: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/French Twist (Gilmore Girls) and was looking for another set of eyes on the issue. There is apparently a rough consensus over at WP:EPISODE, but in the AfD someone made the claim that the episode itself counts as a primary source, and together with the fact that it's a popular program, the article on the episode itself merits inclusion. Salad Days 01:20, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

User: Markaci/Nudity

Yo, Jimmo, I known your cool and all, creating wiki, but I gotta ask ya something. I'm a teen, and I find nudity and erotic material gross and useless. Now, I gotta ask you about material that ain't good for chidren, please, man! Like, this user (see title)'s got ahundred sick pictures on his user page! I read that user pages don't belong to the user, they belong to Wiki1 Why would Wiki have such gross pictures?Like, c'mon! This is an ecyclopidia, not some place where there's naked people and sex and everything1 Please answer, Jimmy, please/I know your busy, but, like, no one answer for Jimmo, please!!!I gotta hear from the big man himself! Thanks, man! Librax 03:01, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Might want to take a look at WP:NOT#Misplaced Pages is not censored for comment on that topic. Tony Fox (arf!) 03:11, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I realize that you, like many people, would like to hear from Jimbo himself; I'll try to explain for now, and you can see if what I say makes sense.

On the policy page Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not (a policy is a rule on Misplaced Pages that should only very occasionally be broken) there is a section entitled "Misplaced Pages is not censored." One of the goals of this encyclopedia is to create a resource which provides a good, thorough overview of one or more aspects of a certain subject. Sometimes, to accomplish this goal, we must include material that is objectionable to some people. Markaci's page is a repository of said material. It has already been proposed for deletion twice (you can see the discussions here and here) and the community didn't decide to delete it, primarily because of the What Misplaced Pages is not policy.

If you find the material objectionable, hit the back button, and then click special:random. Do this until you find an article that needs a significant amount of work, and edit away until you're satisifed with it. That's what I do when I want to get something out of my head (although, in the course of my editing, its more often debates than it is pictures.) Remember, no one but yourself is forcing you to look at that page. Picaroon 03:19, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Considering that your first edit was to Erotic spanking, and that page is not in the encyclopedia itself but buried in userland, let's just say YHBT and leave it at that, okay? Nice try. Salad Days 05:54, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Message from Neptune2007

Jimbo,

Does Misplaced Pages understand the meaning of "selective enforcement?" I have posted an article on numerous occassions and your administrator Ryulong keeps deleting it. He keeps asserting that "it is an ad."

I have toned it down to be as plain and vanilla as possible. Trying only to point out facts of particular interest yet Ryulong, keeps deleting it.

I have looked at nearly every article on wikipedia category: magazines and every single one with a few exceptions was a major infomercial!!!!! Far more aggregious violations than whatt Ryulong asserted over my article

I am really over this guy running around like a little dicatator in Misplaced Pages. What's more interesting is that Ryulong has no idea who he is dealing with here in cyberspace. Not all of us are college students with nothing better to do than toil our days away deleting articles for fun.

Perhaps his time would be better spent looking at other violations?

Thank you for listening. I hope we can clear this up.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Neptune2007 (talk • contribs) 03:13, January 27, 2007 (UTC)

I have blocked this user for issuing a legal threat against me. For his complaints against me, read the history of ATLANTIS Magazine "A Sea Dweller's Guide to Living". Have a good night :3—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 04:58, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Tim Pierce

If anybody from your end or from the University's end had ever bothered to let me know that it had "all been resolved" and Tim Pierce was given carte blanche to vandalize all he wants, and to assign vandalism to his students, then I certainly would not have pursued it. But nobody bothered to let me or anybody else know. Fine. I won't worry about vandalism again. You seem to condone it. User:Zoe|(talk) 00:03, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Zoe

Hi Jimbo,

I don't think this comment was the best way of resolving the situation, nor was it very diplomatic. I feel Zoe was acting in good faith, trying to defend Misplaced Pages in a perfectly legitimate way; how was she to know you have spoken to Tim on the telephone beforehand? Perhaps a little clarification and AGF would be in order here. Yuser31415 (Editor review two!) 00:31, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo's words were entirely warranted. This was not even the sort of issue that admins or editors should have been dealing with on their own. They should have immediately alerted the WP lawyer or Jimbo concerning it, and left it to them to handle. There is a time to recognize and work through authority and this was one of them. As it was handled before Jimbo stepped in, it resembled the dynamics of a lynch-mob. That is shameful. Very shameful. CyberAnth 00:43, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is a community project, and as such I don't see it as out of line that any member of the community would object to someone assigning their students a project to vandalize Misplaced Pages. I would've at least emailed the professor myself to ask him to retract the assignment if I had known about it, as it's a wildly inappropriate assignment. As an academic who does some research in this area myself, I'm quite familiar with the ethics concerns of online research, and one simply cannot do such things; at least I know of no Institutional Review Board that would approve it. So I also feel Jimbo's public attack on Zoe is highly inappropriate, and deserving of an apology. --Delirium 07:15, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo I don't think this was handled very well. As should be evident from the thread on ANI I support the opinion that this should have been handled by the foundation. This is not something that administrators should be engaging themselves in. But... Zoe wasn't acting in bad faith. She wanted to protect Misplaced Pages from what was considered a real threat to Misplaced Pages. Organized vandalism isn't something that the community is going to accept. I respect the fact that you and the foundation are ultimately the only real authority around here. And so it should be. But Misplaced Pages is also community driven. The content here is written by ordinary members of the community and as such I don't see how it is wildly inappropriate for ordinary members (I count administrators as ordinary members of the commmunity as well) to be concerned when someone wants to systematically vandalize our work, even if it is only meant as a test. In the future it would be much more beneficial if you and the foundation would keep a closer eye on what happens at ANI and step in earlier. I am sure Zoe would have appreciated the support of you and/or Brad Patrick and you should have informed her when you resolved the matter. Respectfully and thanks for a really great project, MartinDK 08:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't concern about vandalism which was called "wildly inappropriate," but the unorthodox measures which were being taken to check it. I must agree with Martin DK that someone with a project-level perspective should be keeping an eye on WP:ANI, with the minimal goal of ensuring that PR and legal functions aren't being decided by the night shift. I appreciate you stepping in to restore perspective. As Jimbo, your criticisms are bound to sting more than they otherwise might, but they were quite measured relative to the average tone of the noticeboard.Proabivouac 09:55, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

She was presumably acting in good faith, but her response was so far over the top that it disappeared into the distance never to be seen or heard from again. I did not get a chance to read the email exchange (and it now seems to have been deleted) but, if accurately quoted, accusing a university lecturer who sets a class assignment in good-faith of committing a crime (apparently vandalising Misplaced Pages is a "federal offence", no less) is so wacko as to be unbelievable. This was a really shameful episode for Misplaced Pages- Jimbo, your rebuke was harsh, but entirely appropriate, given the bother that could have resulted from this. The lack of perspective shown by Zoe and many of the other correspondents in the discussion was mind-blowing. By the same token, everyone was I'm sure acting as they thought best, hopefully Mr. Pierce will not take any further action, and the matter is closed. Bottom line- Well done. Badgerpatrol 17:00, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo's comment was rather measured, given the circumstances. Using Wikimedia resources to attempt to drum up a posse to harass a man's name and avocation by threats of legal and media action is without question wildly inappropriate. Unlike Zoe, Jimbo did not make any threats about what will happen if an apology is not forthcoming. Zoe is perfectly free to render an apology or not. Zoe is also free to continue to assert that Jimbo condones vandalism (or not). Tim Shuba 18:31, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Zoe is a longtime Wikipedian, I am sorry if my remarks sounded harsh. Zoe is good. We just have a disagreement in this case, no long term damage I am sure.--Jimbo Wales 00:35, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification and reassurance. Yuser31415 (Editor review two!) 06:58, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm I wish people on this page would understood that Jimbo can speak for himself, and that the person's question was directly intended for Jimbo, not the rest of Misplaced Pages. LuciferMorgan 01:12, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Running this encyclopaedia is entirely dependent on open and unfettered discussion taking place whenever and wherever necessary. Badgerpatrol 01:28, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps, Jimbo, in the interests of removing any ill feeling that may have been caused, you might consider going back here and softening or clarifying your comment somewhat, so that the page will not be archived with an unmodified public rebuke to someone who was never made aware that the matter had been resolved, who was most certainly trying to protect Misplaced Pages, and who was simply looking for an assurance that the assignment would not be repeated. Personally, I would not like to think that some troll that Zoe blocks in a month from now would be in a position to use your AN/I statement to taunt her with. Musical L inguist 01:43, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

That would be very unlikely. Zoe has the confidence of the community and as far as I can tell Jimbo. This was a matter of misjudgement on Zoe's part. I don't think anyone outside of the lynch mob is disagreeing with that. Also I am pleased to see that Jimbo is getting more involved in ANI. It is that kind of leadership in difficult to judge cases that is needed. Maybe some kind of "Jimbo noticeboard" with a strict policy against trolling and general complaining over small matters would be an idea. That way Jimbo wouldn't need to scroll through the endless debating on ANI to get to the stuff that requires his direct involvement. MartinDK 07:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Just one small comment here, echoing Tim Shuba's point. Zoe made clear that if Mr Pierce apologised and made clear that he wouldn't do this again, she would drop the matter. Ignoring for the moment the issue of whether the matter was hers to take up or drop in the first place, couldn't the same be said about Zoe's conduct here? If she apologised on her part for the way she approached the matter (not for doing something about it, but for the manner in which she did something about it - compare her approach to that of Jimbo and Georgewilliamherbert), then similarly, the matter could be laid to rest. I'll add this comment to Zoe's talk page as well. Jimbo's comment may have upset Zoe, but Zoe quite clearly wasn't listening to the concerns people had raised at ANI about how she was handling the matter. Jimbo was good enough to later apologise to Zoe. It would be nice if Zoe could recognise that an apology from her for the way she handled this would put the matter to rest and allow everyone to move on. Carcharoth 11:20, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo, thanks for softening the comment you posted at WP:AN. Zoe has been in a difficult spot. She posted to the message board in order to seek feedback and guidance for an unusual situation, but most of the responses were off target: either hot reactions that mischaracterized her actions or superficial replies that suggested solutions she had already tried. The whole thing would have gone much better if people had known that you'd already resolved this by telephone. Could you make a point of communicating that more swiftly in the future? Zoe has earned a good reputation generally and a few words from you carry so much force. Respectfully, Durova 18:36, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I personally have some sympathy for her as she seems to have been acting in good faith, although her occasionally flip contributions to the AN/I discussion and subsequent over-reaction have not helped her case. I believe I'm correct in saying however that she posted to the noticeboard after she had already sent 1 or more threatening emails to Pierce and/or his employers. But it is not important whether or not the matter had already been resolved by Jimbo ex machina. What is important is that Zoe's actions were massively disproportionate to the problem and could conceivably have got the project and herself into a lot of trouble, not to mention the possible personal upset caused to this- completely innocent- lecturer. Jimbo was 100% correct in this case- it is a shame that Zoe seems not to have taken his words in the spirit in which I'm sure they were intended. Badgerpatrol 19:17, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

My post to Zoe's talk page expressed that thought in softer terms. I doubt any publication other than the student newspaper would have bothered with the story, and if Jimbo hadn't acted that particular venue might have been a reasonable option...especially as a fallback possibility if the problem were to recur next semester. Terms such as massively disproportionate are out of place here: she ought to have started the thread before sending the e-mail. Calm discussion is more likely to make that point effectively than an inflammatory response. Durova 21:03, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't mean to labour the point and I broadly agree with your assessment...but minor and contained Misplaced Pages vandalism as a good-faith demonstration => accusations of "committing a federal offence" = massively disproportionate. In some ways the level of the general debate on AN/I (especially the persistent and completely unwarranted character assassination of Pierce and the bizarre and repeated linking of Misplaced Pages vandalism to real-world criminality) were more worrying than Zoe's isolated response. Anyway, what's done is done and everyone involved has learnt a few lessons I'm sure. Badgerpatrol 00:03, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I think Durova is right here. This appears to be a communication problem. I don't think anyone, including Zoe, would question Jimbo's right and duty to protect the project and make executive decisions and statements. I just think that this situation shows a need for more rapid statements from Jimbo on such issues because, eventhough the reaction to Mr. Pierce's assignment was inappropriate, there does seem to be a genuine concern within the community. I think the community needs to be assured that things are being dealt with in the best interest of Misplaced Pages and Jimbo has shown that in his latest posts here. Apparently those posts just came a little too late. MartinDK 19:43, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the bottom line is that Jimbo and the rest of the big bods have other things to do and perhaps in complete innocence did not think that anyone would really get so all in a twist about this. They can't be expected to watch and report on everything, and I think it's clear that Jimbo and many others did not even envisage that the response to Pierce's class assignment would be so extreme, even if it was only a few isolated individuals. The number one lesson here is: anything that involves on-Wiki actions spilling over into the real world (e.g. legal issues, contacting an individual's employers or even frankly contacting the individual themselves) should be WP:OFFICE actions or at least run past someone in WP officialdom. If this can't be done for whatever reason then at the very least correspondents should make crystal clear that they are acting as private individuals and not as official representatives of Misplaced Pages. There is a real world and there is this world- the values of each are often very similar but we should not assume that they will always be exactly consonant. In the gross and scope of things, WP vandalism is just not that big of a deal to real people, who generally have much, much more important things to worry about. Badgerpatrol 00:03, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

With respect Jimbo, it is worth remembering that Zoe did what she did out of concern for the integrity of Misplaced Pages, and to protect the encyclopedia. Her actions, if over-zealous, were done in good faith and it would do well for us all to remember that we are all valued contributors until it is proven we are destructive influences. I would ask you to reach out to and assure Zoe of your intentions. Right now she is determined to leave Misplaced Pages. Cheers, ✎ Peter M Dodge ( Talk to Me • Neutrality Project ) 01:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Better press communication?

Perhaps there's an unerlying dynamic that needs attention. The people who communicated with this instructor may know better than I whether he read this report in last October's Chronicle of Higher Education. That story calmly describes a university professor's breaching experiment without mentioning the Misplaced Pages policies he violated. The publication did not acknowledge the e-mail I sent them afterward and to the best of my knowledge they published no correction. When reputable sources create the impression that vandalism of Misplaced Pages can be ethical conduct it's understandable if some junior faculty member implements that idea in the classroom.

A similar story ran this month in Australia's Sydney Morning Herald. Afterward I traded several cordial e-mails with the author and posted a polite reply at the paper's site, yet most responses from Wikipedians there and at his IP talk page carried a strong tone of frustration. To a reader who doesn't walk a mile in their moccasins those responses probably look inappropriate and uncivil. Misplaced Pages's countervandalism volunteers could use better support in correcting these stories and in making sure the journalists are better informed in the first place. Durova 21:33, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I have a great idea.

I have a great idea. Why don't we turn this wikipedia into a online country. It could easily work as one. It has laws, (policies), it has a population of 3 million, and is already a gigantic community. Excellent idea isn't it? Retiono Virginian 16:39, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

You're not thinking big enough. Let's turn it into a Galactic Empire, like was the goal of the Encyclopedia Foundation of Terminus in Asimov's Foundation Trilogy! *Dan T.* 00:45, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

What, is it April 1st again already? (See this, this and this for reference.) --Derlay 01:57, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

LOL! That's funny, but you know, if we did that, Uncylopedia's joke wouldn't be false. Know what I mean? Funny though! Ry Guy Sign Here! My Journal 14:10, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I mean this in a serious way... Retiono Virginian 18:08, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, wikipedia is an encyclopedia, of course, so let's stay the course on that. But who knows, maybe some of the principles we've worked out here could also be applied in governance. An interesting concept. --Kim Bruning 07:36, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Jimbo

This is doug jensen — Preceding unsigned comment added by Big D-unit (talk • contribs)

Question

How can non-admins have access to rollbacks, because I need to use them (people always beating me to reverts) Hank Ramsey 03:09, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Try popups. It has a quick-revert capability.--Aervanath 06:52, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

"NNDB is never a source"

Why is the NNDB not considered a valid source? You mentioned this in your recent edit to Maria Bartiromo. Chupper 04:02, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Why on earth should we consider it a valid source? It seems to me to be riddled with errors, many of which were lifted directly from Misplaced Pages. To my knowledge, it should be regarded like Misplaced Pages: not a valid source for anything in Misplaced Pages. We need to stick to REAL reliable sources, you know, like newspapers, magazines, books. Random websites are a very bad idea.--Jimbo Wales 18:03, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Stephen Colbert

My advice to deal with this whole Colbert vs. Misplaced Pages ordeal: go on the show. I think you and Dr. Colbert need to get together on TV and hammer this whole situation out. Show that you are taking his actions in stride and that there are Misplaced Pages users out there dedicated to making sure what is posted on here is as accurate and as "truthy" as possible.

Killintimeslowly 18:16, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey, that's a good idea! I was just going to suggest sending him a nice e-mail or something, but going on the show would be an awesome idea. Grand master ka 01:12, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me too. Durova 22:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Hall of Fame

Hi Jimbo - I request your input and advice on the suggestion creation of a Hall of Fame to celebrate the editors who've made lasting, non-revertable contribution to the Misplaced Pages project and deserve some permanent form of recognition, which may serve as an inspiration to the growing community of newer editors. I believe it is also important to grow a distinctive culture and tradition, which will help us achieve our noble mission. Rama's arrow 18:20, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Opinion

Dear Mister Wales,

As you can see in my user page, I've been making articles for a very long time in several wikipedias, and I wanted to inform some one of meta wikipedia about the vandalism of Spanish wikipedia administrators: they invent rules, they block people without warning, they brag about their power, they help one another in their nice behaviours and there is no way to throw them out or do something to control them. You can see my last events in Spanish wikipedia, and I’m not the only one, they have even erased the article I made about Laura Esquivel in April 2006 as you can see in the history of the article in English, without votes to do it.

You can see how fiery are my conversations in Catalan and Spanish wikipedia, not in others, although they have erased some articles I created in more wikipedias and I argued some things too.

I've been thinking about writing to you for a very long time, almost from the beginning, I really thought that project was a good idea, it's a pity there are so many people disposed to spoil it.

Yours sincerly,

Gaudio 00:07, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Mr. Wales

Dear Jimmy:

How are you? Could you tell us the topic interested you? And we also wish to know the time and place for the interview in Japan. can we make an appointment to discuss the detail of this interview by phone? We also have something for you. Please give me some feedback.

Best wishes,

Business weekly magazine

Hung-ta Lin

future(s) market for wikipedia information currency... thanks for your work!

Hi Jim!

I've been working to create tradeable digital financial instruments with information as the underlying asset.

In the future(s) market for Misplaced Pages-associated financial instruments, I look forward to communicating my enormously positive perception of you and the systems you've helped to create! Thanks for your work!

JPatrickBedell 07:11, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages long! :-)

Controversy Sections ... + or -

Mr Wales:
I've seen this around on a lot of the talk pages on Misplaced Pages, and it seems like everyone can point to a policy that clearly supports their opinion - but I was wondering what your opinion on Controversy Sections is? Are they a NPOV guardian or violator? Thanks for your input!--Daniel()Folsom |_C| 03:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey

Thread your userpage through Gizoogle. Maxiepip 12:21, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

MWB

Wikias???

Mr.Wales,

       Do you think you may be able to help me create a new wikia for the Nintendo Wii called "Wiikipedia"?  Thanks for even bothering to read this!--Furon 20:09, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and by the way, this was automatically put into chat. Please, if you wish, leave a message on my user page and not a chat message.

Breach of neutrality principle in British Isles naming dispute

Jimbo, (or one of your long suffering prawns)

Could you shuffle over on your splendid mammalian limbs, (or if you're not Jimbo, then scuttle over on your crustacean legs), and have a look at the article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/British_Isles_naming_dispute

Please note that this article is clearly taking one side of an ongoing debate.

There is also an interesting challenge to wiki editorial principles embodied in this debate. The principles I refer to are thee one of requiring "reliable sources only" and the one of "no original research".

In this article, definitions are employed to back up one side of the argument. The problem is that the definitions used are biased by their origins. The dictionaries derive from an English or US cultural tradition that has already adopted a position on the argument, namely that the term "British Isles" includes Ireland. The definition used to justify the argument is actually part of the pro-argument, if you follow my meaning.

There are also reasons why documents and maps used in Ireland refer to the Islands as the British Isles, chiefly to do with copyright and the ownership and licensing of Ordinance Survey maps, especially in school maps and atlases.

I am not asking for the article to reflect my position only. I am asking that the article be edited to present a fair reflection of the debate, rather than edited as it currently is. The current article more or less decides that Ireland is part of the British Isles, ignoring the opinion of about 86% of the population of Ireland, including the Irish Government.

So, if there is no place for original research, then biased published sources should also be excluded from the argument.

There, I've said it!

Great site, great invention, well done.

Thanks,

Cormac. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cormac73 (talk • contribs) 20:46, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

Fanatic Hindus writing articles and Hindu Admins cooperating

HI Jimmy, If I would make you read these articles and these lines - would you think these are from an encyclopedia or from a fanatic hate site.

" with all the percieved problems of hindus thrust on Muslim rulers.On these articles whenever a Muslim editor makes changes a cabal of Hindu Fanatic editors and their protector Admins deny the others make changes citing filmsy reasons.87.74.3.1 22:32, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Look This Is Our Viewpoint

We don't see global warming as a major problem. It is a hoax and we do think that Misplaced Pages is pushing the limits on government censorship especially on articles pertaining on global warming. We think in order to comply with federal standards, anything that is on global warming should be edited and reviewed. We feel that some articles on global warming should not say stuff that is quite damaging to the American population. This a friendly notice from the federal government. 72.69.213.21, February 2, 2006 1:56 (UTC)

If anyone is wondering what this is about, see this user's contribs and the history of IPCC Fourth Assessment Report. Misplaced humor, I think. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

This is no laughing matter. If you continue to have these topics on global warming without editing them to comply with federal standards, we will do full searches of Misplaced Pages servers in the United States without any warrants. This is another friendly reminder from the federal government. 72.69.213.21, February 2, 2006 2:17 (UTC)

Which part of the United States Constitution permits the government to establish "federal standards" for what an encyclopedia may write about? *Dan T.* 04:04, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

None. The anon was joking, pretending to be a representative of the U.S. Government, and riffing on the fact that the Bush Administration's standard response to scientific findings on global warming is that it "needs more study". The real Bush Administration knows what information outlets they can control and which ones they can't. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 04:28, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

You're really pushing it, Josiah Rowe it seems your defending Misplaced Pages along with your attack on conservatives be fair minded on other people and hear their point without insulting them. We got the codes to change everything on the viewpoint of global warming on Misplaced Pages. We'll make sure that censorship is enforced here. Fair warning Josiah and you'll get a federal charge. Just another friendly reminder from the federal government. 63.152.10.6, February 2, 2006 15:41 (UTC)

Please don't remove legal threats. It will also merit a federal charge. We have the codes to for federal agents as adminstrators to come in and censor topics damaging to the United States. 63.152.10.6, February 2, 2006 16:00 (UTC)

Dissapointment

I'm not actually expecting a comment from Jimbo. This page is the most public place on Misplaced Pages in which I feel I can find an answer here. I feel that I am having a problem with an unreasonable Wikipedian who is making a private political stance a Misplaced Pages issue on Talk:Ejaculation. I have not be able to find (though I am certain it is here, somewhere) the proper procedure to bring in mediation.

I'm disappointed that Misplaced Pages's policies are not as easy to search for as its articles. This has lead to much running around on my part trying to find the proper citations and authorities. I am also disappointed as I feel Misplaced Pages is too tolerant of extremes of behavior that often hurt both the quality and the culture of Misplaced Pages. The problem I am having affects both. Please see Talk:Ejaculation and then feel free to delete this if necessary. -- jsa 16:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)