Misplaced Pages

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Mitch Ames (talk | contribs) at 13:43, 2 November 2021 (→Timber railways: cogito ergo subtract). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Quotes

The (presumed) edit under discussion: . Mitch Ames (talk) 08:37, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Direct attributed quotes are not copyright vioations Gnangarra 07:51, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

"a brief quotation used in accordance with Misplaced Pages's non-free content policy and guideline" would be fair use, but copying the entire story (even if that story is itself only part of a larger web page) is "likely to be a copyright violation".

In any case, I don't think it appropriate to include that much non-English text in an English-language Misplaced Pages article.

Possibly you could expand the story in English by paraphrasing the English translation in the source. Mitch Ames (talk) 08:10, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Category:Polish Jews

User:MitchAmes. I have an observation to make about the Category:Polish Jews. Like his father Moshe Sopher Salz, Sam Salz was a Polish Jew allthough you removed him from that category. His first language was Yiddish. And he spoke fluent Polish. By birth, he was a Polish Jew, a Golitzianer. He studied at the art school in Cracow. As he got older he lived in Austria, France, Germany, France again, and, ultimately, the United States. After the Second World War, he searched for family members who did not leave Poland and discovered that they were murdered in the Shoah. I don't see the point of removing him from the category. The Category:Polish Jews contains subcategories as well as many specific entries for other Polish Jews. I ask you to restore Sam Salz the category. Thank you. Iss246 (talk) 16:59, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Please read WP:CAT#Articles, which says (with my emphasis here) "an article should be categorised under the most specific branch in the category tree possible, without duplication in parent categories above it. ... articles should rarely be placed in both a given category and .. its ... parent (super-) categories."

Sam Salzt is a Polish Jew, but he's already in Category:American people of Polish-Jewish descent, so there's no need to include him the the super-category Polish Jews.

(I've updated my AWB edit summary to refer to WP:CATSPECIFIC and WP:CAT#Articles, instead of WP:SUBCAT. That MOS guideline was restructured recently so my previous references to SUBCAT are no longer correct.)

Mitch Ames (talk) 00:07, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Mitch. Iss246 (talk) 03:35, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Caring for Country

Hi Mr Ames,

I reason I think the term 'caring for Country' and 'Country' should be capitalised is due to the context of the sentence. The Aboriginal group are not caring for the literal country/nation; this process is in relation to a specific spiritual concept: "Country". It's referring to their spiritual connection, and the lore, to the land. Land management and protests regarding current environmentalism issues are not a concern for the sake of the country (Australian federated nation); the Beeliar protest groups held an issue about it due to their connection and responsibility to care for Country (the region; the lore embedded in it. It's a fairly new phenomenon to capitalise this, but it has begun to be used instead to help make the distinction very clear. The Victorian govt capitalises it now, as does NAIDOC (see their bullet-points where they regard it as 'Country'). I guess the importantance to capitalise is part of Aboriginal-English; it's the most correct phrasing for the concept we have right now. If I had to describe it in another way, Country is almost like its own entity or person. When it's referred in Aboriginal contexts and lores, like it's a person or dimension that communicates back to the people, we have conversations with it, and it acts on its own eg "I feel Country wants us to make sure we look after the fish like this" or "Country warns us not to go beyond that hill" (these are superficial statements, please don't take them with substance-- just wanted to show how it can be used in a sentence).

It's been a bit easier to get people to start capitalising 'Indigenous' and 'Aboriginal' in the right contexts (though that can still be an issue), but terms like Country are typically capitalised due to the different meaning than an un-capitalised 'country'. There are different connotations for the different 'C/country'. I'm actually surprised I couldn't find a Wiki article on 'caring' or 'connection' to Country, I was hoping to insert a hyperlink in the Beeliar article when I wrote the phrase. I hope one will be made in the future! HSIEteacher (talk) 06:40, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Is "country" a proper noun? That's criteria for capitalisation, according to the Misplaced Pages style guide, MOS:CAPS, which is the one that we use, independently of what style guide other organisations might use. In particular MOS:EMPHCAPS says

Initial capitals ... should not be used for emphasis. ... This includes over-capitalization for signification, i.e. to try to impress upon the reader the importance or specialness of something in a particular context.

MOS:CAPS says (emphasis in original):

Misplaced Pages relies on sources to determine what is conventionally capitalized; only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in Misplaced Pages.

but as I previously noted, the reference used in Beeliar, Western Australia does not capitalise "country" except in the title and first mention.

I think we probably should have an article on "country" (independently of how it is capitalised), because the concept is important. The best we currently have is "Welcome to Country", which includes in the lead section, second paragraph:

The term "Country" has a particular meaning and significance to Aboriginal peoples, encompassing ... The connection to land involves ...

and a section "Aboriginal history and relationship with land". That section includes

Connection to country (often spelt with a capital C) ...

but note that "often" is not "consistently ... in a substantial majority ..."

Mitch Ames (talk) 09:20, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Caring for Country is actually a redirect to Landcare Australia, which mentions in the Background section:

A related concept is "Caring For Country". This focuses on local Indigenous people working to repair Indigenous lands and to preserve the environment using cultural knowledge, and in conjunction with non-Indigenous people and organisations who are willing and able to assist.

I've just added a link from that text to Welcome to Country § Aboriginal history and relationship with land, but I suspect that there is a better way to cover the material. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:22, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

I hope my indentation worked and is appropriate to use here! The issue with consistency is that we may as well refer to Indigenous people and Aboriginal people as indigenous, aboriginal, and other terms-- because these are the terms that were consistent since colonisation. There would be no need to modify it. Do you see why the modern change for capitalising Country is needed? We deem words other than pro-nouns worthy of capitalising, all of the time. Misplaced Pages's rules don't always seem up-to-date for Indigenous content-- it's been a blind spot for many policies (such as what constitutes as a reliable source, is very much appealing to the Windshuttle empiricism, which is not appropriate for Indigenous foci in studies). How can anything be considered consistent or in the substantial majority, when it's a widely underspoken topic and continually miswritten, in comparison to English concepts within Misplaced Pages? If we were to stick to it for Indigenous concepts, we should go back to saying lower-case indigenous. For the sake of Misplaced Pages's rules on pro-nouns. It's only because of modern changes in the values (which are still not consistent), that people have started to regard it as Indigenous etc.

Also, note that some sources such as 'Creative Spirits', non-Indigenous-owned NGOs and businesses are not the most appropriate when trying to justify the phrasing (in fact, Creative Spirits is a commonly disliked source by Indigenous people + Indigenous Studies scholars). They are usually not agreed upon or required their colleagues to have training/collaboration with Aboriginal groups; and usually the government websites uphold that now (so websites like the Vic govt and NAIDOC are more preferred when finding other sources referring to Country).

Welcomes and Acknowledgements of Country are a really good example for when we capitalise 'Country'. The Beeliar entry is referring to the exact same 'Country' concept.

Any Misplaced Pages entry referring to the appropriate terminology with capitalisation for its use in Indigenous content should be allowed, just like the new era of capitalising 'Indigenous' etc. English isn't compatible with translating a lot of foreign (and 'First Nations') content, but we use it as best we can. This could be marked by italicisation, those brackets that follow with a translation , like this (toodah), or grammatically incorrect terms written in English as their own concept. Misplaced Pages entries use this method often (for Latin, Italian, Japanese... any language, really!). Sometimes this means not following the strict conventions of English; and for Indigenous content, this should include Aboriginal-English concepts/terms/syntax. Yes, the article is written in English -- but it's discussing Aboriginal content. If we only cared about the English conventions, let's just ignore the AIATSIS protocols of how to refer to Indigenous peoples and call them 'natives'. It's a 'correct' term when using English.

It's not like in another section, for non-Indigenous matters, it would be acceptable to then capitalise Country (as in Australia).

If we went by the conventions and consistency of what's written about Aboriginal people, we won't find much that's of the current standard. English has continually been used by non-Indigenous writers to write on Indigenous matters, and it's only in recent time that the terms are starting to be 'corrected' so that the language/terms are what Indigenous groups are approving as correct or appropriate. Just like capitalising Indigenous, Welcome to Country, and concepts such as 'Country'. It's to make it clear to anyone that this is a different 'Country'.

Consistency is a bit of an issue in general terms for Indigenous matters anyways -- Indigenous groups are not homogenous; not just because of geo-language groups, but because of the generations (older Aboriginal people are more open to the older, now-inappropriate terms, whilst younger Aboriginal people are typically the more 'consistent' to modern phrases). Capitalising 'Country' is something that I can assure you is happening, in the institutions, in the more recent academic papers, in government sites. But it's going to take a while (if at all) for any Indigenous matter to be consistent, substantial, and in the majority.

Thank you for making the new addition to the WtC article, and I appreciate you linking me to specific Wiki policy guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HSIEteacher (talk • contribs) 11:15, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

I forgot to sign my signature, I apologise! The change before was was from me^^^ HSIEteacher (talk) 11:20, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

You've twice use the term "pro-nouns", but it's not clear what you mean by that term. Did you mean:

• Pronouns?
• Proper nouns?
• Nouns?
• Something else? A link to a definition would be helpful.

So far as I can tell "country" in "Welcome to Country" and "Acknowledgement of Country" is capitalised because "Welcome to Country" (and "Acknowledgement of ...") is a noun phrase, and the phrase collectively is a proper noun, denoting a specific ceremony, not because "country" in that context is a proper noun.

Misplaced Pages has its own well-defined house style – WP:MOS, and in particular MOS:CAPS – which I've already cited and/or quoted from in my edit summaries and talk page posts. If you think that capitalisation of "country" is consistent with those guidelines, then please cite/quote the relevant part of the Misplaced Pages guidelines, because they are the ones that apply here. If you think that the Misplaced Pages style guide needs to change, then raise the matter on Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style, or more specifically Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style/Capital letters. Mitch Ames (talk) 03:29, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

It's not up to people to change guidelines to correctly use a term Caring for Country is vey much the same as a Welcome to Country is done by some one who has been initiated by the community and given the right. This is different to an Acknowledgement of Country, which is something others do when they havent been granted under lore to speak for a community thats why the good government & corporates say we acknowledge..... . Similarly each individual has a unique function to perform and represent within Caring for Country in that not every one can perform every aspect. Gnangarra 09:03, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for attending to the details

	Cathedral Builder
	Much respect for all the ways you work to get things right. Erasmus Sydney (talk) 22:24, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you x1000

Thank you, thank you for editing the bips and bobs on the Beeliar stub.

It really helps that you're fairly local to the area, whilst I've never even visited Perth before! If I lived closer, I'd scavenge the hard copies at the local libraries + take a walk around Beeliar Wetlands to read the council's signs about the region.

Thank you so much for helping me write for my Wiki Education course. HSIEteacher (talk) 02:45, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for assisting

Thank you very much Mitch for assisting the editing on the stub Caroline Archer. It is really helpful as I am a University student who is aiming to change this stub into a c or b class article. I am currently trying to find some images to include on the stub if you could assist me in doing so that would be extremely helpful! Shay0608 (talk) 01:43, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you!

Thank you for your advice to merge the pre-existing lead article on the chrysocephalum semipapposum article and my lead. If you have any other advice or thoughts feel free to let me know! Spooky Mug (talk) 06:37, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi

Hi — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.213.143.65 (talk) 14:10, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Akane Yamaguchi

Hello. Help copy edit. Thank you. Vnosm (talk) 12:32, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Little Athletics Good Article Reassessment

Little Athletics, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. --Whiteguru (talk) 07:39, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Misleading

To refer traditional owner as a referent point inside a larger article seems a misunderstanding of what the variations between states and regions might actually implicate - ownership as referrable within the larger federal act. I assume that you have referred to and understand the recent determnations within Native Title case law then ? JarrahTree 12:57, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

"Traditional owners" does not link to a specific legal definition; in fact it even says that this term has sometimes proved problematic in law ... The definition of the term "traditional owner" varies among jurisdictions.

In each article that I've edited, the displayed text says "traditional owners", and a link to the redirect of that name is far more specific than the original "Indigenous Australian", so MOS:SPECIFICLINK would seem to apply. If the reader wants to know, in general terms, what a "traditional owner" is, that redirect will be more useful to them than "Indigenous Australian". If the term "traditional owner" is incorrect in any of those articles, feel free to fix it. I make no assertions about whether it is the correct term to use in each article, only that if the article uses that term, we should link to the more specific article section. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:10, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

Apologies

I am so sorry for taking up so much of your time. I will refrain from making similar edits without checking the subcategories from now on. I was aware of the policies, but it did not occur to me that this could be the case. Thank you. Scorpions13256 (talk) 03:12, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

I see the problem extends to more articles than just writers. I know a quick and easy way to fix the problem. Scorpions13256 (talk) 03:21, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	For spending so long undoing my mistakes. Scorpions13256 (talk) 06:01, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Seriously though, I felt like I had no choice but to award this. Scorpions13256 (talk) 06:01, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

rubbish

what an astonishig claim -

East Perth Power Station ‎ "coal-" has a hyphen because it is a prefix to "fired", as in "coal- and oil-fired power station" - see Hyphen#Suspended hyphens

 and (for six years) -

in a lead sentence - what a very poor piece of text for some challenged reader wondering what the hell... JarrahTree 14:05, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

I stand by my edit summary statement that the suspended hyphen was correct, but I agree that the wording in general was poor. This is probably better. Mitch Ames (talk) 14:13, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

There is a particularly annoying stance of lead sentences in the wa project - smart arse cryptic tell nothing leads for things about aboriginal peoples (sic) and plants - which have no region or place name to tether the topic of the article to - or otherwise the residual blue ocean of the early 2000s items that smell of saline flotsam - just as I look for one I cannot find one...

https://en.wikipedia.org/Innaloo,_Western_Australia - the lead para as an example

This is an example - where the convoluted links make a veritable play pool of blue - I am sure there are better more conv0oluted examples...

It may seem over-critical of well intentioned editors, but anything with less complications and links, but also more specific identifying features in a lead paragraph should be an essential item... JarrahTree 14:36, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Which part of MOS:CONTEXTLINK does Innaloo, Western Australia fail to comply with? Mitch Ames (talk) 01:09, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

failing to comply with anything is irrelevant, it seems that some lead paras seem laden with a burden that might have links to things that fortunately most places in australia are not weighted with. - such as https://en.wikipedia.org/Embleton,_Western_Australia JarrahTree 10:21, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

So fix them. If anyone objects, raise the matter at WT:WA. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:13, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

haha ha err, mitch, in this context - fixit aka bold is a pointless and unproductive response - when provided with a lead paragraph containing -

suburb

Perth central business district

local government area

I am very interested as to what your opinion might be of including the items in this context compared to the majority of Perth locality lead paras? JarrahTree 12:28, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I'd unlink suburb (Everyday words understood by most readers in context) and possibly local government area (if anyone cared, they'd follow the link to the specific LGA), but leave CBD linked. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:39, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment - also now we have a another term to join the wide range of interesting appellations for the larger noongar community, the disambig page has -

https://en.wikipedia.org/Noongar_(disambiguation) - group of Aboriginal Australian peoples.

various collective terms can be found -

however we now have nation - do you have a WP:RS for that - and well established example of common use of the qualifying term ? JarrahTree 12:51, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

My understanding is that "nation" is an increasingly common term for any of the language groups across Australia ; it's not necessarily specific to Noongar. But here are some usages: .

If it really bothers you, we can find some other wording in Embleton, Western Australia - I only did that to fix the adjacent links. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:16, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

It's nothing to do in any way with me at all - the whole australian wikipedia project has a vast range of terminologies relative to the collective and individual nomenclature for the contemporary and historical indigenous population, and a remarkable lack of standardised terminology that has been adequately established - your references are particularly derivative and not in any way centralised that is adequately established across state borders, or other impediments to an adequate common understanding. some other wording - is not the territory of independent wikipedia editors, but in actual practice - something that might 'fit' across regional and state boundaries. I would strongly advise against claiming 'authority' over any particular terminology at this stage. Better to have people/s. JarrahTree 13:31, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

It's nothing to do in any way with me at all — Then why are we even having this conversation?

I would strongly advise against claiming 'authority' ... — I wasn't aware that anyone was "claiming 'authority' ".

Mitch Ames (talk) 23:53, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

(1) my understanding is you are saying if something bothers me - assuming it is a personal concern, I am responding that I would say its a larger more generic issue well beyond any one editors focus. The conversation is important in the larger context, for the whole of the wikipedia project to have a method or means of gaining a coherent and agreed vocabulary in areas such as that about Indigenous peoples...

(2) aha - there is a way of looking at things, that supposes that simply by editing, you are making a claim that you know something about what you are editing - otherwise you couldnt or wouldnt edit - from that way of looking at it - the claim of authority is when you edit, when you assert or affirm your understanding of something. That's the way some people understand the process. JarrahTree 10:54, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Non-diffusing subcats

Karen McCarthy Woolf is on my watchlist: you seem to have removed the parent of a non-diffusing subcat for her and many others. Please check your categories and, if you agree, undo your mistakes. Thanks. PamD 04:33, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Ah,about that. sorry, checked again and realised I was looking at the wrong pair of categories. You're doing fine. Have reverted my reversion. PamD 04:46, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Images

Hello Mitch Ames. I uploaded 5 images to Commons. You can use them. Robingunes; 11:51, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Metric tonnes

I do not agree, at all, with your campaign of replacing "metric tonnes" everywhere with "tonnes", on the grounds that tonnes are "metric by definition". The term "metric tonnes" is a highly efficient way of indicating just what distinguishes a tonne from a non-metric ton. This is particularly relevant for American readers, who often seem to have trouble discerning the difference between a tonne and ton. Your campaign is damaging the utility of Misplaced Pages. Please stop. — Epipelagic (talk) 02:20, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

I suggest that "tonne" (with a link) is more efficient than "metric tonne", because the former single means exactly the same as the latter, in half the words. Including redundant words such as "metric" is opposite of efficient. Quoting Misplaced Pages:Basic copyediting § Style: "Check articles for unnecessary words and redundant phrases. Vigorous, effective writing is clear and concise". Mitch Ames (talk) 05:13, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

"Metric" is not generally a redundant term in the phrase "metric tonne". It is redundant only for people who already know what a metric tonne is. You are simply introducing unnecessary obscuration for many readers, the exact opposite of what good copyediting should be aiming at. — Epipelagic (talk) 06:35, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Given that the tonne is a "... metric unit of mass equal to 1,000 kilograms", then yes the word "metric" is redundant. We don't say "metric gram" or "metric litre" or a "metric Angstrom".

If the reader does not know what a "tonne" is, then prefixing with "metric" won't tell them what it means, only that it is (probably) a metric measure. For example if you did not know that a "gram" was, "metric gram" would not help; if you did not know what a "litre", was "metric litre" would not help; if you did not know what an "Angstrom" was, "metric Angstrom" would not help - instead we provide links for the benefit of the readers who don't know what a word means.

Even the Americans don't say "metric tonne" - "It is commonly referred to as a metric ton in the United States". (Unless MOS:TIES applies - which it does not - I would not change it to "metric ton".)

Note that Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers § Specific units lists "tonne" and "metric ton (US)", not "metric tonne".

Mitch Ames (talk) 09:30, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

You are right. Google says it has 7.9 million articles using "metric ton" but only 3.3 million articles using "metric tonne" (Google Books has 1.1 million and 45,000 resp, and Google Scholar has 64,400 and 12,800 resp). That being the case, I withdraw my opposition to removing the term. However, the view below that there is "no such thing" as a metric tonne doesn't seem correct either. — Epipelagic (talk) 12:26, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

There's no such thing as a metric tonne. The metric unit equal to 1000 kg is called "tonne" in British English and "metric ton" in US English. Never "metric tonne". Dondervogel 2 (talk) 09:44, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. The reason the French spelling was adopted was to avoid such confusion. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:06, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Metric is redundant for tonne, especially when a link is provided. Also, the term metric tonne doesn't seem to be commonly used and therefore shouldn't be used here. --Zac67 (talk) 10:12, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

We don't say metric gram because there is only one use of 'gram'. However, there is metric ton (1000 kg), short ton (907 kg) and long ton (1016 kg) - with variations in spelling. An unqualified use of 'ton' could mean any of them, depending on where the reader came from. It needs to be reasonably obvious - ie the reader shouldn't have to go chasing it down.  Stepho  talk  10:29, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Don't forget the measurement ton. I suggest that we never use "metric ton" but only "tonne". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:42, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

An unqualified use of 'ton' ... — The debate is specifically about "tonne" not "ton". Mitch Ames (talk) 12:04, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

A tonne is metric, the clue is in the spelling. Putting metric before it is like putting “imperial” before inch or mile. I’d suggest that the casual reader isn’t going be bothered and anyone wanting to know precisely how heavy something is will be paying close attention to the unit of measurement and will follow any link if they need to be sure. Hence ‘tonne’ with a link will generally do the job. MapReader (talk) 12:44, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

We don't say imperial inch or imperial mile because there is no such thing as a metric inch or a metric mile and therefore no need to disambiguate which inch or mile you mean. However, there are multiple tons/tonnes and it is ambiguous.  Stepho  talk  11:28, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

there is no such thing as a metric inch or a metric mile — metric inch, metric mile.

However, there are multiple tons/tonnes} — "Tons", yes. "Tonnes", as units of mass, no. I suppose a Norwegian reader might think the article was referring to the obsolete Tønne (unit), but it's probably reasonable to expect that our readers realise that the articles on English Misplaced Pages are written in English, not Norwegian. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:53, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Not to mention the Scandinavian mile (10 km). Dondervogel 2 (talk) 17:17, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

In writing, tonne is clear, and "metric tonne" only implies that there is some non-metric tonne. In speech, in some contexts, we might try to pronounce ton and tonne differently or we can say "metric" if we think disambiguation's needed. If we were transcribing a quote, that would be "metric ton". Otherwise "tonne" is clear, especially to anyone who needs to know what that is precisely, eg for pricing or calculating thrusts. NebY (talk) 13:15, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Given that we have colour/color, litre/liter, use/utilize, organise/organize, etc - many readers are likely to think that ton/tonne are just variant spellings of the same thing. Even in the above discussion among intelligent contributors there was confusion between the two.  Stepho  talk  22:40, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

The OP feared confusion, as you do, but was not themselves confused. If we respond to that fear by using incorrect terminology that implies further variants, we will cause confusion. NebY (talk) 23:59, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Apologies, I didn't state my position clearly - I support the correct spelling of "metric ton" and do not support dropping the "metric". Curiously, typing "metric to" in the WP search box suggests metric tonne but not metric ton.  Stepho  talk  10:11, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

read it

Original postMitch Ames (talk) 12:33, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

40 characters is the expected - too many short descrips have too many words -

from the instruction page:

Each short description should:

be short – no more than about 40 characters (but this can be slightly exceeded if necessary)

be written in plain text – without HTML tags or Wiki markup

start with a capital letter

avoid initial articles (A, An, The) unless essential to the meaning

avoid a final full stop.

capitalisation and hyphens are the least of anyones worries - too much text is the issue

JarrahTree 11:14, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Fortunately upper and lower case letters are counted the same, as are hyphens and spaces. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:58, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

for you maybe - the mis and over-filled (sic) short descrips in the oz project exhibit in some cases absurd vacuousness, or non sequitors which require extermination or extirpation, depending on one's inclinations JarrahTree 12:13, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

no more than about 40 characters — I hope you're going fix "Terrestrial ecoregion in Western Australia" (42), "Islands of the Kimberley coast of Western Australia" (51), "Former electoral district of Western Australia" (46), "Railway station in Perth, Western Australia" (43) etc. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:19, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

... and of course "indigenous communities of Western Australians" (45) (more properly, but with the same count "Aboriginal...") Mitch Ames (talk) 12:25, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

(hohum) - it is a process of finding items that are verbose and over-wordy over time that have been inherited from wikidata - and working on aspects of how to reduce, it does not always happen straight away, and if you weren't so bad faith trollish you could actually help and improve the items cited, rather than dig up edits from months ago.

For the umpteenth time, I know it might be very hard for you try doing something other than following my edits mitch, it is tedious and debilitating to be incessantly trolled... you never know there might be much more interesting subjects amongst the 6,340,279 articles out there that could benefit from your pedantry. JarrahTree 12:31, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

One systemic problem is to understand whether you have view of the wikidata entries in your view of articles - or not - then you would be able to see the differential between the wikidata entries against the short descriptions (you do have access to wikidata of course) -

for instance above the Warralong text: -

Community in Western Australia. A start-class article

62 revisions since 2012-01-25 (+11 minutes), 27 editors, 90 pageviews (30 days), created by: Aboriginal Communities (68) · See full page statistics .

Wikidata: Warralong Community (Q7969928), Aboriginal community in Western Australia

Aliases: None

Community in Western Australia Edit

In which case the wikidata description entry and short description entry can be seen at the same time, it is indeed a mystery of what you are looking at (or not)- depending on your preference settings... in turn that could explain (or not explain) your understanding of the residual wikidata - short description transition JarrahTree 13:01, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

I don't see the wikidata at all when viewing articles. I know it exists, but (for the purposes of this discussion) I don't care about it. What I do see is the diff when an article on my watchlist is edited, including the short description. My original question/suggestion was based on the premise that the communities are quite specifically Aboriginal communities, not just communities in general, which is so broad a description as to be not very helpful for the purpose. I wasn't aware of the 40 character "limit" until you pointed it out. But once you did ... It seems a little odd that one letter ("Aboriginal community in Western Australia" is 41 characters) is sufficient to exclude the word "Aboriginal" (which seems to me to be quite an important word in that context) from the short description, but in other cases you exceed the threshold by more than that. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:35, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

the fact that you cannot see the wikidata entry - then the range of entries in data for the range of ways of providing terms/words that are at times highly variable - reduces your capacity to see the interplay and in effect understand the issues that arise between the data entry and the wikipedia entry... the partial view is limiting.

- as to the importance of adding another word is unnecessary - all european settlements in wa tend to be in short desc or in wikidata - as town or locality - so the additional word in short descrip is pointless, as only indigenous communities are identified at community anyways. hohum. JarrahTree 14:06, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

only indigenous communities are identified at community — Great Walk Networking. Mitch Ames (talk) 04:02, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Mitch you excel yourself, wikipedia is wasted on you - I am sure there are agencies around the planet that would love to headhunt you

the more the reason your access to wikidata is awaited with sheer bated breath - the chaos you could create by finding things that dont fit or match, are there a millionfold compared to english wikipedia - your talents are wasted here... JarrahTree 04:39, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

if you were possibly able to do the tweaks in your preferences, your capacity to read the wikidata description and to see the transfer capacity between wikidata and short descirption, I am very sure your contributions to the determining answers to the infernal variations of entries in wikidata descriptions and how they need to be standardised, and converted to short descriptions, would be of considerable help to fellow wikipedians, to be sure. JarrahTree 14:29, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 23

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Laverton Downs, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Queenslander.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:55, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Fixed. Mitch Ames (talk) 10:02, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Please can you undo all of your edits which have removed e.g. Category:Greek football managers from relevant articles? They are not to be diffused. I am also raising at WT:FOOTBALL. GiantSnowman 06:00, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

former community

On 6 June 2008, Bella Bropho, on behalf of the Community, lost an appeal to the Federal Court on the grounds that their     eviction and loss of property was in breach of the Racial Discrimination Act 1975. In March 2014, the Lockridge campsite was demolished to make way for a conservation reserve and meeting place.

It no longer exists - so the category to be reinstated is incorrect, surely? Former - similar to the monty python dead parrot skit perhaps. My understanding all the aboriginal community articles relate to live/existing ones. What do you think? JarrahTree 11:36, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

I think a link to the article or diff would give some context to your questions, thus allowing me to give more helpful answers. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:41, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

ten minute ago or so you edited

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Swan_Valley_Nyungah_Community&oldid=1035561867 which gives currency to a demolished site/community - I believe the categories are incorrect and misleading

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Swan_Valley_Nyungah_Community JarrahTree 11:48, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

My edit was explicitly correcting an obvious previous error, rather than intentionally reinstating a specific category. However ...

Category:X does not necessarily imply "current X". If it did, categories such as Category:Prime Ministers of Australia, Category:Premiers of Western Australia, would only have one entry, and we'd have to remove at least a few of Category:Australian rules footballers from Perth, Western Australia for example (Frank Allen (Australian footballer), Chance Bateman, Tony Begovich, Shane Beros, ... all former players).

Are there any other former communities? Enough to justify a subcategory? Otherwise I'd be included to leave it in Category:Aboriginal communities in Western Australia. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:02, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

point taken - thanks for the answer - I dont like it - and believe in time 'former' anything should have its separate category - the containing items in the one category that belong in two tenses simply makes life worse for non native speakers trying to make sense (or not) of tense along with everything else weird and wonderful in the language - but not about to change it all any time soon. Thanks again JarrahTree 12:12, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

... and the example used in WP:CATDEF - Caravaggio - "was an Italian painter". Like Cleese's parrot, he has ceased to be. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:10, 26 July 2021 (UTC) replaced extra comment by you that I think I had exterminated in an edit conflict JarrahTree 12:13, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Music venues

I think that's about the first time I've ever heard entertainment venues that don't play live music called "music venues". I can't say if it's a weird US thing, but it's not common terminology in Australia. The Drover's Wife (talk) 12:25, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

I assume that this is in response to my question "why aren't Nightclubs in Melbourne a subcategory of Music venues in Melbourne?", but it doesn't appear to answer it.

... live music... — The category is "music venues", not "live music venues". Do nightclubs in Melbourne play music or not? Mitch Ames (talk) 13:10, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

The entire contents of the music venues category consist of live music venues, so clearly it isn't just me who assumes that the content of Australian categories will fit their meaning in Australian English. The Drover's Wife (talk) 13:52, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Other opinions sought at Misplaced Pages:Australian_Wikipedians'_notice_board#Are_nightclubs_in_Melbourne_music_venues?. Mitch Ames (talk) 23:35, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

lists of mayors

In the wash up of all things irrelevent and really pointless. It looks partial so far, which means it is up to others to deal with, no need for a question - grammatical or otherwise. have a good week. JarrahTree 02:27, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

After thought - when I see you had edited in 2019 on the mayors lists - with no apparent interest in the lead sentence, and then in 2021 there is an interest in lead sentence - I was wondering why? Also I was concerned if you set a precedent by changing maybe 10 or so items, whether you were interested in the other 110 potentially undone changes for the rest of Australia of mayors lists with 'this is a list' first lines. JarrahTree 05:05, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

why? — I can't remember why I was not interested in the "this is a list" lead sentence in 2019, but possible reasons include:

• I wasn't aware of or familiar with that specific part of MOS:FIRST at the time.
• I was fixing specific other things with AWB (example) and not looking at anything else.
• I did not have an unlimited time to spend fixing all the things that were wrong.

...if you set a precedent ... — MOS:FIRST is the precedent, I'm merely following it.

... undone changes for the rest of Australia ... — What is this "rest of Australia" of which you speak? I've done the WA articles, but I have to draw the line somewhere.

We are all fallible of course, I wasnt doubting that, why you even forget to sign ; and rest of australia means the other lists of mayors that have the first line problem - somebody or some thing will probably see the issue and fix it... In the era of ten years ago or so some eds believed that bots would be designed to solve problems like that, but they never happened.JarrahTree 05:28, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

invite

Greetings

It is noted that you edit in the rarefied space of content about Perth, Western Australia - it is thought you might be in Perth - and be able to possibly meet up

You maybe interested in some events coming up in the near future - an opportunity to meet fellow Wikipedians, as well as being involved in: -

————

This Saturday - 14th August 2021

Misplaced Pages Annual conference - known as Wikimania

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/71

———

In September -

10th Anniversary of the Fremantle photo work:

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/72

————

Both events also tie in with the extended 20th Birthday of wikipedia -

Celebrated in limited manner last Sunday:

https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/70

———

Please feel free to forward to others if they have been missed...

Any queries - please do not hesitate to contact for more details:

User:Bahnfrend User:SamWilson JarrahTree 07:46, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

oh dear

https://en.wikipedia.org/Category:Bathing_in_Australia

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Burlong_Pool,_Western_Australia&oldid=1038096861

http://northamarmycamp.org.au/storylines/military/life-at-the-camp/ - at the bottom of the text

Burlong Pool was a popular swimming spot in the summer months.

I really wonder what you need,

now an argument about the difference between bathing and swimming?

"Lucky Northam". Wongan-ballidu Budget. Western Australia. 16 January 1948. p. 4. Retrieved 11 August 2021 – via National Library of Australia.

or is it something else ?

JarrahTree 09:57, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

"Swimming" is not "bathing". A swimming pool or swimming hole is not a bath or public bath.

Is there some mention in the article of "bath" or "wash" or some other synonym? Is there a reference that says "bath" or "wash"? Mitch Ames (talk) 12:12, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

WA Legislative Council

"Region" in electorate names for the WA Legislative Council is not a common noun, it's part of the formal name of the electorate. It is the formal name of each region in the Electoral Act and is universally used in that way by the WAEC. (I do note that our articles on the regions use a very strange naming convention, and though I was probably involved in it, I can't for the life of me remember why; nonetheless, it doesn't change that the uses you "corrected" were right the first time. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:13, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

As I posted at the same time, our articles on the individual regions are not actually correct in this regard and we have done something very strange. It doesn't change that the applications you "corrected" were right the first time. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:15, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Can you provide a (link to) reference for the official names of the electorates? Do you intend to fix the article titles? Mitch Ames (talk) 02:18, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

As I explained above, it is the formal name of the electorates in the Electoral Act and is universally used by the WAEC. Both of these things are easily findable/evident if you use Google, much as I know you have utter disdain for the idea of doing any fact-checking of what you're doing before (or even after) you go on a rampage. The Drover's Wife (talk) 02:20, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 15

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Commonwealth Railways NDH class railcar, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Darwin.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:01, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Fixed. Mitch Ames (talk) 06:11, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Category: Australian women artists, Virginia Cuppaidge

Mitch Ames

Thank you for giving attention to an article about an Australian woman artist.

I noticed you removed VC from category "Australian women artists". I realise you were trying to follow WP about subdiffusing categories. However, in this case, there is a concerted project being undertaken to create and edit more articles about Australian women artists on Misplaced Pages and we are using this category to track our progress and give us a list of all Australian women artists through searching for this category. It is important to us that we keep this category and are happy for other categories to be added eg Australian painters, 21st century women artists. There have also been other editors who have removed this category and I am writing to all of them. I have gone back into all the articles where the category has been removed and added it back into them with this note on the editing summary. Hopefully we will not get into an editing battle of removing and re-adding this category.

"Added category: Australian women artists as this category is critical to the oversight of the Know My Name Australian women artists project. Please do not remove from this category."LPascal (talk) 03:37, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

@LPascal:I think that ignoring WP:CATSPECIFIC for this purpose is not the correct approach. Instead I request that you create a separate administrative category (on the article talk pages). Mitch Ames (talk) 03:54, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

I have just read the administrative category page you referred me to and I understand that you are suggesting we just use "Australian women artists" (AWA) as a category for project management purposes on the Talk pages. I am a more recent wikipedian (of about 2 years) who is involved in maintaining project pages and lists for the AWA project. The article category AWA was set up by more experienced wikipedians who have been training the many new editors dispersed around Australia in how to write and edit articles on Australian women artists. Please be aware there are dozens of editors who have been involved in this project. I manually go in and add this category to every new page that is created by another editor. The project management group can discuss between us if we also need an administrative category, but I can advise that the AWA article category was not solely created for project management purposes. It is also necessary for searchers who particularly want to research Australian women artists. They can type those words into the Misplaced Pages search box or Google and they will find this list which is generated by our use of the AWA category. In turn, this list feeds into other Australian sites about Australian artists, women in Australia etc. This research on Australian women artists is quite a big area of interest in the cultural sector in Australia at present and we need to keep the larger category so we can give researchers a comprehensive list of women artists, not by century or art media for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/List_of_Australian_women_artists LPascal (talk) 04:32, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

WP:CATSPECIFIC, WP:SUBCAT and WP:DIFFUSE were also created by "more experienced wikipedians" for a reason, and reflect the consensus of Misplaced Pages editors in general. Consensus among a limited group of editors ... cannot override community consensus on a wider scale. ... a WikiProject cannot decide that some generally accepted policy or guideline does not apply to articles within its scope.

In theory, you could declare Category:Australian women artists to be {{All included}}, but I do not think it appropriate for this purpose, and would object to its use.

It might be better to take this discussion to WT:CAT, to get some more opinions. You may this entire section to that talk page to avoid fragmentation of the discussion. Mitch Ames (talk) 05:47, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

probability

The late Douglas Adams had a thing about improbability - and if youre going to reword all the fremantle short descriptions, ha ha and what a droll follower you are - the specific aim of recent edits was to have 'any form' of short description as found - rather than specifically identifying heritage items (at this stage) - as there are 3 type of heritage - national, lga and locally designated - the later exercise is to create a category tree that identifies the highest level of heritage rather than all three - which is why there is no urgent issue to make the claim of 'heritage' as it is ... JarrahTree 13:08, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Well since it's not urgent, I'll stop panicking and instead make myself a nice cup of tea. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:47, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

much preferred you had an extended vacation with zarniwoop, or for that matter slartibartfast - there is not a problem for the proverbial copy edit anywhere - but the short descripting all items in freo as heritage listed would indeed be a very strong inducement for a pan-galactic gargle blaster, and throwing the guide out, and reading you vogon poetry without protection. JarrahTree 14:09, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Tribe

Hey, just wondering how much you know about the tribe? If you could please share any more information — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.196.134.252 (talk) 02:30, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

What tribe? Mitch Ames (talk) 05:13, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

does not compute....

your edit

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Perth&oldid=1042667069

simply has nothing in

https://en.wiktionary.org/Wiktionary:Main_Page

to substantiate the difference...

JarrahTree 08:01, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

https://en.wiktionary.org/houselights - "houselights: The lights that illuminate the audience section of an auditorium, theatre, or other entertainment venue."

As opposed to "house lights" - the lights that illuminate my house.

Mitch Ames (talk) 09:58, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

which is not found in wiktionary - :) JarrahTree 10:11, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

puffery re veterinary surgery facilities is gothic humour surely? JarrahTree 14:58, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Well I was going to say that WP:PEACOCKs are not native WA birds, so not allowed there, but not everyone approves of my biting humour. Mitch Ames (talk) 23:48, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Martin curve

I've just started this new article and am trying to actively develop it. But I keep getting edit conflicts from you. Apparently you want to take over the article before I've managed to write it. So I'll leave you to it. — Epipelagic (talk) 08:52, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

@Epipelagic:, a couple of edits for MOS compliance is not "taking over the article". To prevent future edit conflicts, I suggest:

• If you're still creating the article and don't want anyone to edit until you've finished (which is perfectly reasonable), create it in the Draft namespace, or your sandbox, or a subpage of your user page. That way the article is far less visible, thus less likely to be edited by others.
• If you're actively editing an article in article space, and you don't want others editing it at the same time (to avoid edit conflicts), add {{In use}} to the article.

While you're not actively editing in article space, {{Under construction}} explicitly allows other editors to edit the page, but lets us know that you're still developing it, which can sometimes be helpful.

Mitch Ames (talk) 04:09, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

You were missed

There's something rather drastic about putting a line over your name. Trust all is ok.

The roof of the hotel where we ended up is a worthy location to peruse the Freo view, and it was a really excellent day... JarrahTree 08:17, 12 September 2021 (UTC)

so fix it

so fix it JarrahTree 08:44, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Fixed. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:57, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

that crap starts inside wikidata - where many weird and wonderful things start - and where, one hopes you may yet venture one day, to wreak your commonsense on some particularly bizarre absurdities (at times) JarrahTree 08:50, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Not fixed - the rest of oz projects needed the fix as well, the terrible tale of the west oz centric editing strikes again... like a balloon of cement... JarrahTree 10:20, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

and typically checking the short descriptions rather than the wikidata as well is short of the job... JarrahTree 12:36, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Feel free to demonstrate how it should be done ... Mitch Ames (talk) 12:38, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

It may be as simple as https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Shortdesc_helper

which is in https://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets

as well as either of these in the link above: -

Show page description beneath the page title (not compatible with Page assessments gadget)

Display an assessment of an article's quality in its page header (documentation)

but i think the default existence of https://www.mediawiki.org/XTools/Page_History helps it all

OK - if your SUL link between projects is working (or if not you need to log in to https://www.wikidata.org/

In english - locate your item - and check the link - https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Australian_places

or in data - locate your item - https://www.wikidata.org/Q21829460

I am sure I have in one of my js files there is something that identifies: on an article page:

x tools summary (if not working - found in preferences gadgets for making it live)

Then the next three -

Wikidata: WikiProject Noongar (Q21830505), Misplaced Pages subject-area collaboration in Australia

Aliases: None

Misplaced Pages subject-area collaboration

In other words the lines above the article, allow a movement between a link to data - ie a click on the wikidata number takes into wikidata to update the text, and then if it is updates/corrected - with some links it shows up

in the short description line as either an earlier created one which has either overide or edit at the end,

or where the is an option to inter-relte with the wikidata record:

XXXXX in Perth, Western Australia Wikidata (in red) Import (blue) Edit and import (blue)

To be honest - I am missing something about key ingredients - how the short descr links with the wikidata

I didnt keep notes - I just have the process working where I have the lines above the article in editing/reading space that make life much easier when interplaying between the xdata material/wikidata/short descr info lines...

There are a secret ingredient or two - just accidentyally left out for the moment, until I get the handle on it.. but at least there is a start.. JarrahTree 13:11, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

I just enabled "Show page description beneath the page title", and it shows the description for Article pages but not for Project pages. Mitch Ames (talk) 02:00, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

I do not recall saying anything about project information in the upper lines of info:

to reiterate:

Line 1 = A stub-class article

Line 2 = 54 revisions since 2005-09-02 (+9 hours), 46 editors, 197 pageviews (30 days), created by: Nachoman-au (3,685) · See full page statistics .

Line 3 = Wikidata: Success (Q7632532), suburb of Perth, Western Australia

Line 4 = Aliases: Success, Western Australia, Success, Western Australia, Australia

Line 5 = Suburb of Perth, Western Australia Override?

Is what I see for the upper lines for Success, Western Australia. JarrahTree 10:05, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

What I want to is see the short description for a page, so that I can verify a change I make to it. If I enable "Show page description beneath the page title", I can then see the short description when I read any article page. But... the short description change that I want to make is to a project page (per my original comment) - example - and I can't see the short description on the project page, (in normal read mode) even when I enable "Show page description beneath the page title". Is it possible to see the short description when reading (not editing) a project page? Mitch Ames (talk) 12:48, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

to do with wikidate specifically

At least one missing ingredient seems to be WP:AWB, which has found 557 remaining instances in Misplaced Pages - easy/automatic to change in WP, but how to use it to update WD? Mitch Ames (talk) 13:53, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Phabricator ticket "Add Wikidata as a supported project" has been open for almost 3 years... Mitch Ames (talk) 14:06, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Covid 19 protests

Whilst there are limited sources, Harrison Mcleans involvement in the anti-covid-19 protests are correct as per his own admissions

Assuming that we're talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=COVID-19_protests_in_Australia&diff=1046560580&oldid=1046523269 ...

The issue is not whether he was responsible, the issue is whether he is notable enough to mention. At the time of my edit, he did not have an article. I'm still not sure that he's notable enough, but we'll see what others think. Discussion at Talk:COVID-19_protests_in_Australia#Harrison_Mclean please. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:41, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

forgot working on draft template

I have forgotten the 'working on draft' template - but if you are going to start making your changes to darlington based articles in the short term, I promise the worst of insults the next time we meet in real life, it is of no help watching you edit, while I try to get some issues updated. in other words - look for something else - there are 6 million articles - I reallydont need your help - thanks. JarrahTree 12:24, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

as for the moment the edit conflicts will i make it even worse Please try playing somewhere else. JarrahTree 12:27, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

{{In use}} is the template you are looking for. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:31, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

GoodFaith ? I cringe every time I edit, I see you there in minutes after, for the mess that they are, I really dont need edit conflicts, and the stress of knowing you know nothing abut the subject  :) - youre complaining about not wanting to do the 6 million other items rather than a small hole in the hill? JarrahTree 12:34, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm not complaining about anything, I'm merely reminding you of the 'working on draft' template that you have forgotten. Or consider using draft or user space, until the article is ready for others to see. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:45, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

fair enough - thanks for your help... JarrahTree 13:32, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

I have no faith in templating of any variety - accept them as they are also rather than the trivialities - your skills would be much better used at 6PR JarrahTree 10:29, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

your talents are always wasted when you go on your awb sprees - almost every article you breeze through has issues... JarrahTree 12:57, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

... and now they each have one fewer issue. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:02, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

... or in some cases, three. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:04, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

dubious to say the least, https://www.elections.wa.gov.au/elections/state-referendums/past-referendums/1925-prohibition-referendum - if you read carefully the talk page, the item has a table to which the statistics were not applied and that were promised 12 years ago. Whether it was passed or not is superfluous to the unfulfilled promise of details... JarrahTree 13:12, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Timber railways

Could you offer a suggestion as to how to improve the info ab0ut gunzburg/austin publication? JarrahTree 12:35, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

A link to a specific article/section/diff would be helpful, so that I know what you are talking about.

If it's something you've recently edited I won't necessarily know - it's not like I follow your edits or anything.

If it's in an article that I've recently edited, I still might not know what you're talking about - I don't necessarily read the entirety of every article I edit. (If I did, there'd likely be a lot more edits to that article!)

Mitch Ames (talk) 12:50, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

hahah - the most immediate edit - hahah - to your explanation - hahaha - mind reading always expected

https://en.wikipedia.org/Timber_railway_lines_of_Western_Australia

https://en.wikipedia.org/Timber_railway_lines_of_Western_Australia#Publications - the way that I created it some time back its 3x mentions - and each with italics - not 100% sure whether it could be reduced - or the title once and the rest of the details repeated, your thoughts? JarrahTree 13:02, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

• The article is about "timber lines" not "publications about timber lines", so there's no need to write body text about the publications (unless they are verifiably notable for some reason)
• The assertion that Rails through the Bush is "A comprehensive coverage" is WP:OR (unless someone else said it was, in writing, so that you can cite them)

Ergo: . Mitch Ames (talk) 13:43, 2 November 2021 (UTC)