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I'm wondering if this would qualify (and no, this isn't because I wound up quoted in this): Would the fake end to the film edit war and subsequent exposure via sites like The Verge qualify? Rusted AutoParts06:45, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Oppose merge: I think AfD would be a better venue for this, since the article has an in-depth listing here already—users may want the option to vote to redirect without further content addition instead. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/she) 06:02, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was nominated for deletion on 24 October 2021. The result of the discussion was keep. I'm nominating it for a merge because I think a consensus for that is more likely to happen than a consensus from another AfD is. ––FormalDudetalk06:26, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
Oppose: Merge is a valid result of an AfD discussion—not just keep, delete, and variants thereof. The community chose in that (very recent) discussion to keep, not merge. Thrakkx (talk) 14:45, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
that’s not exactly an accurate summary of the discussion: the closer explicitly said I do encourage the discussion to continue on the talk page as to whether a merge is preferable. Their keep close was essentially a ‘don’t delete’ close. Eddie891Work14:55, 22 January 2022 (UTC)
Support merge, or redirect if there's nothing that can be merged without violating WP:DUE. Per the WP:PAGEDECIDE guideline, meeting GNG is necessary but not always sufficient for a topic to have a standalone article. In this case, it would be better covered as part of the article with a broader scope. It's just too niche. {{u|Sdkb}} 00:36, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
Such a merge is clearly inappropriate as this incident doesn't belong on the page at all. It wasn't a controversy about Misplaced Pages, and not something Misplaced Pages received criticism for. It was simply a long winded discussion that happened on the site. Elli (talk | contribs) 00:04, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
The lead says "controversial events and scandals related to Misplaced Pages and its parent organization". That doesn't exclude conflicts within Misplaced Pages that get media coverage. Criticism is at Criticism of Misplaced Pages, and if this page is limited to things Misplaced Pages has received criticism for, it should be rescoped and retitled accordingly. Besides, it did result in criticism of Misplaced Pages ("world class pedantry", "a swirling maelstrom of anal retention", "make the encyclopedia look rather ridiculous", etc.). — Rhododendrites \\ 00:16, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
@Rhododendrites: The item is simply out of place here. This article doesn't need a retitle or rename to be restricted to the proper scope. This talkpage discussion could be considered a "controversy", should it be listed if it got media coverage? I don't think so. Elli (talk | contribs) 01:07, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
Well, sure, you can add "if it got media coverage" to anything that doesn't get media coverage and it'll sounds silly, but ultimately: why not? How are a bunch of RS writing about an on-wiki controversy in the context of how that controversy exposes the pedantry of Wikipedians, to the embarrassment of the project (reading in from "ridiculous" above), substantially different from absolutely every other thing on the list?
This is, of course, kind of tangential to what's being proposed (whether to merge the other article vs. whether to remove the summary here). If I may reinforce the stereotype, I might propose creating a separate section to figure out a clearer set of inclusion criteria. As I've noted elsewhere, most of the many criticism/controversy/bias articles on Misplaced Pages are poorly scoped and overlap in sometimes clumsy ways. — Rhododendrites \\ 01:25, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
Support. Based on the sourcing, I agree that a paragraph here would be sufficient for the topic. Other redirect targets may be acceptable as well. czar05:55, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
Oppose, of course not and quick close, this was recently Kept at AfD in a full discussion and this seems an end-around an already decided question. Randy Kryn (talk) 06:06, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
Except the question has not been decided already, and certainly not by the AfD discussion, which the closer explicitly encouraged further discussion on merging for. ––FormalDudetalk07:29, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
The article is misnamed, what actually is the controversy, and how does it fit the suggested article? And the close was 'Keep' not 'maybe merge'. The closer mentioned that maybe a merge discussion could take place, but with the 'Keep' decision and past defense of the article the mountain should be a very steep one to even get close to thinking of merging. Many Misplaced Pages editors wanted and want this kept, the Shadow of Keep is all over it, and to want to merge it to a page where it doesn't fit (this isn't a controversy about Misplaced Pages, it was an in-house styling discussion not a controversy) - the misnaming indicates that it would fit into this article, which it doesn't). What was the controversy? Randy Kryn (talk) 00:40, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
Opposethe result of the AfD discussion was pointedly not "Merge", which makes this feel somewhat like WP:FORUMSHOPPING, unless the nominator can articulate a reason that consensus should change. In fact, they have said the opposite above: I'm nominating it for a merge because I think a consensus for that is more likely to happen than a consensus from another AfD is. My assessment is that the article satisfies WP:PAGEDECIDE by providing needed context for the subject which would otherwise not fit into the target article while maintaining readability and cogency of thought. I therefore oppose merging on both procedural grounds and on the merits. AlexEng07:06, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
As has already been pointed out above by Eddie891, the closer explicitly said I do encourage the discussion to continue on the talk page as to whether a merge is preferable. This is the appropriate venue to continue discussion on a merge. ––FormalDudetalk07:24, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
Weak oppose: two Daily Dot articles a month apart and an Independent story are in the article. There's also Slate. A search turns up passing mentions in Slate and Gizmodo but these won't contribute to notability. Notability is borderline, but the AfD seems to indicate it, and in that case a merge would be possible but likely undesirable as a single paragraph to the issue would leave interesting things to say unsaid, and more than a paragraph may fall afoul of due weight. (A radical suggestion: get this merge discussion to 40,000 words in length and then contact the press.) — Bilorv (talk) 19:21, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
Oppose: there was already an AfD where anyone who wanted it merged had the opportunity to make a case for it, which they did, and it did not close as "merge". I find the arguments made at the time in favor of keeping it to be more persuasive than the arguments made in favor of merging; it's not like this is a shitty microstub article. I think that if we want to relitigate it, someone should ping all of the AfD participants. jp×g22:41, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
Why is a non-free cartoon the visual centerpiece of the article? The article is not about the cartoon. There are plenty of other free images (such as a screenshot of the talk page) that could be used instead. If you feel that the cartoon is somehow vital to understanding the article, a portion of it (such as just the second panel) could be used. --Ahecht (TALK PAGE) 04:16, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
The cartoon is a defining element of public perception of the event. At its deletion discussion it's been suggested that the cartoonist should be asked via e-mail to release the cartoon for Misplaced Pages use, as he has done it before. Let's try that. Randy Kryn (talk) 10:31, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
Hmm, I'd hold off on that; we shouldn't ask for licensing on an image for an article that might not be around this time next week. Let's wrap up this discussion before approaching Munroe. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 10:37, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
I'd written "the visual centerpiece of the article" (it's the only image on the page) and "a defining element of public perception of the event", not, as you paraphrase me, "its defining characteristic". It's nice of the cartoonist to practice freeing up his work for Misplaced Pages, a true Wikipedian trait. Randy Kryn (talk) 17:02, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
Question. See the section Talk:Misplaced Pages Star Trek Into Darkness controversy#Incorrectly named, what controversy?. Can the nominator or someone please explain here and there why the article's title includes the word "controversy", and why the styling discussion is considered controversial enough to be memory-holed at a page which has nothing to do with this media-notable event detailed in the recently Kept article? Specifically, what controversy. It seems to just be a styling discussion that was noticed outside the in-house talk page. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:39, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
Support merge. Topic is not sufficiently notable enough on its own for a stand-alone article. The purely technical matter of having been an AFD prior is unconvincing; many articles are merged without ever going through AFD. That is irrelevant to the matter at hand. --Jayron3212:41, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
No, I am not incorrect. That is because I really believe that the current level of coverage does not sufficiently demonstrate notability. Since that is what I really believe, my statement is a correct representation of my belief. It would only be incorrect if I didn't believe that. Not that I believe you're the kind of person who cares, because you don't seem like you're interested in being convinced that people can look at evidence differently than you do and arrive at a different conclusion, but the relevant guidance is at WP:SUSTAINED, which states "Brief bursts of news coverage may not sufficiently demonstrate notability." The lack of sustained attention to this means it doesn't merit a stand-alone article. Now, you, Randy Kryn, are quite allowed to weight various criteria differently than I do, and vote accordingly. That doesn't make you incorrect. It makes you different, which is not a synonym of incorrect. I, however, feel that this does not demonstrate enough sustained coverage to be notable enough for a stand-alone article. Therefore, because that is what I wrote already, I am correct in representing what I believe in the text I already wrote. --Jayron3214:39, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
I considered both of those sources. The CSM citation consists of a single mention in a much larger article about a different topic, which is not significant coverage. The Independent article is part of the "Brief bursts of news coverage" that means there is no sustained coverage of the topic. Everything in the article is either sourced to the same brief burst during a single news cycle, or a single-sentence-or-two mention in another work about the larger topic. This topic is NOT covered in depth in sustained coverage, so it doesn't merit a stand-alone article. --Jayron3217:26, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
I would also support a merge. It was a somewhat noteworthy incident, but hardly justifies a standalone article. Not that this proves anything, but no one writing about the incident ever tried to contact me for an interview or follow-up, even though I played a somewhat significant role in ending it (and was threatened with arbitration and desysopping for my pains). Mackensen(talk)12:58, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Please realize that the last comments were from a month ago, and this should have been closed long ago as no consensus. Nothing wrong with continuing to add opposing comments while editors have a second bite at the apple, especially when quality sources such as The Independent and The Christian Science Monitor are being treated like a local grocery bulletin. Randy Kryn (talk) 19:48, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
@Randy Kryn: I'm not sure what any of these responses have to do with the point I was making, which had to do with lasting importance. The once source that isn't from the time of the controversy is a passing mention in the Christian Science Monitor: "How should they punctuate the movie title “Star Trek Into Darkness”?" That's the entirety of it. That cannot be used to establish standalone notability, grocery bulletin or no. No one's revisiting this after nine years. There's no lasting importance. No big oral history about how an abstruse manual of style discussion lasted months until a rogue admin ignored all the rules and ended the discussion. There are still abstruse manual of style of discussions. That admin wasn't desysopped. Life went on. Mackensen(talk)22:34, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
Oppose merge The page this is proposed to be merged into is 200,000 bytes big, far above the recommended article size. Thus content should be being split, not merged. Recent AfD consensus was to keep. NemesisAT (talk) 22:34, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Oppose merge Topic is notable. Proposed merge target is too large already. If the target were broken up (by year?) I'd be a bit more open to it. Hobit (talk) 05:35, 7 March 2022 (UTC)
Post-close
Close undone
Eh. A new user closing a discussion that isn't clear-cut, and closing it with no explanation whatsoever, is not great. Don't know what the likelihood of a different outcome is, but it should at least be an experienced editor and/or take account of the arguments. — Rhododendrites \\ 12:55, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
Thus the "Misplaced Pages Misplaced Pages Star Trek Into Darkness controversy controversy"? EEng16:12, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
The closing seems fair, each side has its point of view acknowledged, however quietly and concisely. The closer has almost 500 whole edits, probably around long enough to put an obvious and lingering no consensus out to pasture. Now can we ask the cartoonist for permission to use his deleted cartoon strip (apparently he's done it for Misplaced Pages before)? Someone from Wikimedia or anyone here volunteer (I don't know the legal release requirements). Randy Kryn (talk) 21:16, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
Less than 500 edits and 6 weeks of tenure hardly meets the "highly experienced" requirement of WP:RMNAC, and the editor certainly isn't "highly experienced with RMs" as required, as they have only participated in one requested move discussion and only closed one other move discussion that I could find. In any case, experienced or not, contentious well-participated discussions should never be closed without explanation beyond the boilerplate, to show that the strength of the arguments was considered. --Ahecht (TALK PAGE) 21:50, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
This closure was taken to MRV where the review was procedurally closed, because this is a merge, not a move, discussion. The correct venue used to review merge-discussion closures is WP:AN per WP:CLOSE. Please be cautioned that sufficient time should be given to the closer to respond to a discussion with them about their closure before any kind of review. Thank ya'll for your awesome presence!P.I. Ellsworth - ed.06:09, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
To editor FormalDude: (already was aware of that.) Objective about the rights and wrongs of this and about the reasonableness of the closure. "If at first you don't succeed..."(?) "Spoonful of sugar..."(?) Congratulations btw on the anniversary of your long tenure. Best of luck at AN!P.I. Ellsworth - ed.09:52, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
Right now this article is a little hard to navigate. Is a timeline the best format for this? I think grouping by topic might be a better way to organize this. And also adding sub-headings for each incident. Thoughts? Ideas on what the topical groupings could be? BLP, COI/UPE, hoaxes, blocks, lawsuits, plagiarism, censorship, etc. –Novem Linguae (talk) 12:21, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
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