Talk:Bob Knight - Misplaced Pages

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This page needs

A rewrite on his basketball accomplishments, particularly at Indiana. It's disjointed and it's missing a lot of important records (home win streak, consecutive tournament appearances, overall wins etc.). Not to mention that it skims over major accomplishments like the national championships and final four appearances.

NPOV

There are currently (Nov. 2005) some subtle but problematic issues with non-neutral POV in this article; I'm surprised that no one has yet pointed this out. However, I feel quite unqualified to make any changes to this particular article. I hope that other editors will have a chance to remove the NPOV. Telestylo 06:56, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Like, say, "Despite the controversies, Bob Knight has tremendous support among basketball fans — especially those who are aware of his many accomplishments off the court and the positive influence he's had on former and present players. They cite his honesty and exacting ethical standards, the fact that the Indiana University program was never charged with NCAA violations, and that he was intolerant of behavior, on court or off, that would taint his the team or the school in any way."

Is that supposed to be some kind of joke? Intolerant of behavior, on court or off, that would taint his the team (sic) or the school in any way? OK...

Somebody might want to fix this too -- "Two years later, Knight sued Indiana University, claiming that he cholked huoi,m!!w00t!!@"

This is a fairly biased piece, can a non-neutral template be inserted?:

As a humble user who is bored to tears by overtly detailed Misplaced Pages-entries like this one, I would suggest simply removing most of the offensive material. As I see it, an entry in an encyclopedia should not be concerned with passing judgement and discussing issues that really belong in a fan site. Jinmex, 31.10.2006

Pat Knight

According to the Texas Tech succession box Pat Knight will become head coach when his father retires? Is this simply understood, or is there an actual contract in place? --djrobgordon 02:35, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain there's a contract in place.UMclassof06 07:37, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Not sure about the status of a contract, but the media guide does state, "prior to the 2005-2006 season, Pat was named head coach designate." I'll update the article with the appropriate reference. Lbbzman 13:30, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

POV edits

I have reverted 2 edits by 209.198.12.162 because they appear to be quite POV. If the community disagrees, I'll accept their consensus. Lbbzman 20:20, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

It is a five year contract. You should look up facts before you just start randomly questioning something. Sportsfan should be editing articles like this because non sportsfans have no clue what's going on.

POV

This entire article is POV. The writing style comes across as Bobby Knight being set up by so many people out to get him, when in reality, he is probably just a violent person with a bad temper. Several passages cast doubt on nearly everyone who testifies against him that he caused harm to their person. It's just one big mess, and throughout there are no sources. I'm putting the POV tag on this. Mike H. That's hot 01:55, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Some People just can't accept the alternate side of the story. Everything is under the premonition that Bob Knight is evil and everything he does is an act of violence.

pov tag

I just read the entire article and found it to be even-handed, keeping a neutral point of view when describing Bob Knight's critics and supporters. So I have removed the POV tag. If anyone disagrees, can you please quote specific examples from the text you feel are POV, so we can discuss the issue without simply saying the whole article or writing style is skewed? 69.142.21.24 20:46, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Okay, fine. This entire paragraph has a problem:

An Indiana University secretary also accused Knight of throwing a potted plant at her, and assistant coach Ron Felling claimed Knight threw him off a chair, and punched him in the chest after an eavesdropping Knight overheard him criticizing his program and methods on the telephone. (Felling allegedly said "Knight's ranting and raving ... takes the fun out of winning"). Felling sued Knight for assault and received an out-of-court settlement of $35,000 from IU. Many feel it was Felling who precipitated Knight's 2000 firing by Indiana University president Myles Brand by leaking a video of a private practice session to the media in which Knight appears to strike and hold the throat of player Neil Reed. It is believed that Felling leaked the video in retaliation for being fired by Knight for disloyalty.

Reed was later voted off the team by his own teammates..

Also, this passage has problems.

But, arguably, the most controversial incident involved Knight feigning whipping black player named Calbert Cheaney in 1992, an incident which made national headlines and resulted in howls of protests by civil rights leaders. Although Knight had done the same thing to several white players, only this made the press.

And this, implying that Knight was "set up."

In September, 2000, a freshman student named Kent Harvey reportedly said, "Hey Knight, what's up?" to Bob Knight. According to Harvey, Knight grabbed him by the arm and berated him for not showing him proper respect. Knight later told the media that Harvey was exaggerating the incident; he only placed his hand on his shoulder and quietly lectured him about manners and respect. Knight's assistant coaches backed his version of the story.

Although IU President Miles Brand states that even after a zero tolerance policy was placed on Bob Knight, the Harvey incident was only one of numerous complaints that occurred after its issuance that led to Knight being fired. Harvey was supported by some, but vilified by many Knight supporters who claim Harvey intentionally set Knight up. Knight's supporters contend that he was the victim of a media smear campaign orchestrated by enemies in the Indiana University administration and that the majority of Brand's reasons for firing Knight were not credible.

Mike H. That's hot 19:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

This article seems a little skewed, but not as bad as many familiar only with national media coverage concerning Knight would likely think. The national media only reports the bad things about Knight because it is sensational and Knight makes no effort to publicize his good deeds or even his side of the story. It is for this reason that many in Indiana try to learn more about him.

For example, one of the reasons the wikipedia entry mentions that Knight supporters "claim Harvey intentionally set Knight up" is because Harvey is the step son of sports author, admitted Knight critic, and former Bloomington talk-radio show host Mark Shaw (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/news/2000/09/10/iu_knight_ap/). But instead of pointing out that obvious connection days after being fired, Coach Knight told a crowd of 6,000 students that were calling for Harvey's head to "Let that kid be a student and let him get on with life. This thing, believe me, had happened to me long before that situation took place. That kid is not responsible for my not coaching at Indiana, and make sure you understand that." (http://espn.go.com/ncb/s/knighttimeline.html)

~Xander McMander (Who's Your Daddy)

I think presenting both sides of Knight's various incidents is the only way to preserve neutrality. He is a complex individual with a complex history. Glossing over the facts of his biography invariably presents a misleading portrait of the man.

I agree. Presenting both sides is not what the article is doing right now, at least not fairly. It's presenting one side, which is clobbered by the "superior" side of Bobby Knight and his supporters. It's heavily skewed and ends up disservicing people who really come here for an encyclopedia article on him, not a fan view. Mike H. That's hot 19:49, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Just a reminder to everyone to sign in and then use Hoosier 01:22, 11 March 2006 (UTC) before you save so that your ID is recorded. Helps to know who to respond to. Thanks.

Hoosier 01:22, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

LOL guess I need to use, "Hoosier 01:24, 11 March 2006 (UTC)" sign in and use "Hoosier 01:24, 11 March 2006 (UTC)" don't use the quotation marks to record your ID.

Hoosier 01:24, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

To keep the software from interpreting wikitext, enclose it in <nowiki></nowiki>

So, for instance, you'd type: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> to get ~~~~ Kurt Weber 23:51, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality of the Article

To me, the article is fair. It all comes down to the fact that Knight has an overall controversial character, being a good teacher and coach, but at the same time falling prey of his outbursts. It is quite clear that he has rage control problems, but one can't and shouldn't downplay the bright side of him. Why should his ex-players still keep contacts with him, and being sympathetic with him if he is such an evil man? Can anyone dispute the fact that he raised 2 million dollars to help Landon Turner? I think that the article offered a complete description of the good and the bad, and left the final judgement to the reader. And I think that the fact that Knight's haters are disputing it shows that they are not as neutral as the article is.

Fabio Anderle

Please point to specific sections that you think are unfair and suggest changes. I have no idea of knowing what sections you think are unfair or inaccurate. If you simply feel that their is only critical material and no evidence that supports a better view of the subject, please try to provide that evidence. Remember 21:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

Was not ment as vandalism but simply as odd things he has done which I presumed might be viewed as trivia. Nothing major if people disagree. Just thought i would toss it out there.

Speaking of trivia - what's Knight's currently record, his record at each school, and his winning percentage?

By the way: When is UK going to realize that Tubby is worthless BK is the obvious choice to replace him. UK has to take Knight in order to actually develop players that come there. Just a thought.

Recent changes by Kasreyn

I've made some significant changes. Please direct comments here if you are unsatisfied or disagree with the actions I've taken, and we'll discuss. Cheers, Kasreyn 19:54, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Looks pretty good. I was getting ready to remove the POV tag myself, as I couldn't see any reason for having it. Dubc0724 20:07, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Good work removing some of the unsourced claims. But you also removed the cite needed tags, and some of those paras still had unsourced claims. I generally use cite needed tags on a one-per-paragraph basis, no matter how many unsourced claims are in the paragraph. Otherwise, the resultant text will have more tags than text visible. I've restored some cite needed tags to mark these paragraphs (even though personally, I don't doubt that Knight did a lot of these things). Plenty of the claims of Coach Knight's improper behavior are still unsourced, so this article is still in violation of WP:BLP. Cheers, Kasreyn 19:56, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

what the hell?

Hmm, I found this: "* In 2005 Bob Knight, Dick Vitale, and Coach K were involved in a threesome"

and wondered exactly how verifiable it was. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.242.21.101 (talk) 16:27, 24 December 2006 (UTC).

where to put info

Lawrence Frank, Isiah Thomas, Mike Krzyzewski, and Steve Alford all coach currently and either played under knight(coach k, isiah, and steve alfod) were a assistant for knight(coach k) or were a manager for knight(lawrence frank) Where should this info be added? i couldn't find a spot in the article apporiate for this info. Znsga 19:31, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

How about adding a "Coaching legacy" section? It's definitely relevant. -Dmh 16:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Recent changes

I neglected to sign in before putting in a set of changes this morning. They're mine (the ones from 63.86.210.252 and 66.57.45.134 on 9 January).

In general, this article is a good example of why throwing around a bunch of stuff on either side doesn't make an article unbiased. As it stood it was a blatant puff piece with a little bit of "people just don't understand Coach Knight" thrown in.

Some particulars:

Side notes that do nothing but name-drop and then puff up other prominent sports figures. I don't care here that Parcells coached a Super Bowl team. I don't care that Kentucky went on to lose to Wooden's last UCLA team. I especially don't care that after not going to IU, Larry Bird went on to face Magic Johnson in the final.
Use of "Coach Knight" or "Bob Knight" instead of just "Knight". We already know he's a coach and goes by "Bob". He's not the reader's coach, so just call him by his last name like anyone else.
Use of words like "historic" and "achievement". Just say what he did and let that speak for itself.
Blatant POV stuff about Knight "revealing his sensitive side" and the bit in Basketball philosophy about how kids just aren't disciplined enough for Knight's system. Titles like "The Fall of Knight" and "Episode IV: A New Start" (OK, so it didn't say Episode IV) don't help either.
Some of the other stuff was more subtle, but in general tightening up the prose also made it more neutral (see "The Fall of Knight" vs. "Termination from Indiana". -Dmh 16:22, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Picture

This article needs a picture, somebody messed something up, and what is the deal with changing "fucked up" to "messed up" and all that stuff?

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