Talk:2023 - Misplaced Pages

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Eclipses

See WT:YEARS#Eclipses for a matter relevant to this page. Arthur Rubin (alternate) (talk) 23:08, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

In fiction removal

At least put it in see also 96.52.7.8 (talk) 23:41, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

we normally don't have it in main year articles, and I don't think there's an article for 2023 in fiction. 4me689 (talk) 02:14, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Things going to the public domain (Result: exclusion)

there has been repeated additions of "In the United States, books, films, and other works published in 1927 will enter the public domain, assuming there are no changes made to copyright law." should this be kept or removed cuz it seems to be normally removed off the year pages when the year has begun. 4me689 (talk) 17:17, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

I don't think we need it, it's basic maths. Not to mention that it's a domestic law in the US, and many countries have similar copyright laws with different lengths of time for different types of works, and many other laws have sunset clauses (classified documents, statute of limitations, etc.) JeffUK 11:41, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Per JeffUK. Copyright laws differ in every country, and even if the works are internationally popular it shouldn't be included. MarioJump83 (talk) 01:31, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Keep it on 2023 in the US per JeffUK. Not everybody lives in America InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 10:51, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Latin alphabet in Uzbekistan (Result: exclusion)

I suggest removing the entry. According to Uzbek alphabet, such move was announced several times in the past, but never followed through, and the only sources are from the beginning of 2022 referring to plans. I can find no confirmation of any official change today, and the Uzbek version of the government website still defaults to cyrillic. — Yerpo 13:53, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

It shouldn't be included under any circumstances - it's domestic. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 14:17, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't know, I think it it fits within the broader question of prevalence of either script, similar to driving direction, so I wouldn't oppose keeping it if it really happened. Its scope is thus broader than national elections, for example. — Yerpo 15:53, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

I see it has been removed, which I would agree with on the basis of the evidence presented by Yerpo: there is no sense in including something that does not appear to have happened. Now, if it did happen, I would support the change: script changes are pretty significant. Double sharp (talk) 08:53, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Domestic event. MarioJump83 (talk) 01:28, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

2023

I came here looking for the number. I think the year should be specified as 2023 (year). Consider the entry for 32. It differentiates, and the number is before the year. In any case the entry for the number 2023 is found at https://en.wikipedia.org/2000_(number)#2001_to_2099 It is unfortunately minimal. 142.163.194.184 (talk) 00:59, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

The WP:PRIMARYTOPIC changes at some point from the number to the year. You can see the discussion from 2016 here. Double sharp (talk) 06:19, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

I would recommend you propose this on Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Years and start an RFC. As for my opinion, I'm neutral. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 15:54, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Ken Block (Result: exclusion)

Does Ken Block deserve to be in the deaths list? Just wondering :) 190.99.113.95 (talk) 12:31, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Not sure... _-_Alsor (talk) 12:40, 3 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude. He's a racing legend, but is he internationally notable or well-known, outside racing or motorsports? Motorsports has been past it's popularity back in 2000s. MarioJump83 (talk) 03:03, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude Not international notable. Nemov (talk) 03:10, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude due to insufficient international notability. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 13:25, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Include Block was a household name in the international car world; it's easy to find outside the US (Bild,BBC, Deccan Herald, China Daily). OhNoitsJamie 16:15, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

What are his international achievements? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 16:33, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

What are Cunningham and Khasbulatov's international achievements? OhNoitsJamie 16:41, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

They don't appear to have any, so they shouldn't be here either. Substantial international notability is a requirement to be listed in main year articles. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 17:06, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

I understand that year articles should not be exhaustive in listing deaths, but looking at 2022, I find it difficult to argue that Block is less internationally notable than many listed there. OhNoitsJamie 17:27, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

If you'd say what exactly his international achievements are & which other sportspeople you're comparing him to, we could work out if that's true. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 17:41, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

You can read the Ken Block article for yourself. I fail to see how his wide range of motorsports achievements are less notable than a wrestler who won a single Olympic medal. Additionally, Block had wide recognition outside of motorsport due to his popular video series. Block has orders of magnititude greater Google new hits than many of the atheletes mentioned for the last few months of 2022. OhNoitsJamie 18:17, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

I have & I don't see anything that makes him important enough. The vast majority of people outside the US haven't heard of him. If there are any particular sportspeople who are included in other main year articles whom you think shouldn't be, you can discuss them on the relevant talk page(s). Winning an individual Olympic gold grants automatic inclusion. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 20:48, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Which Athletes ? Name them. 2601:204:CF81:EC80:D48D:85F2:364D:A875 (talk) 01:51, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude There's a difference between "household name" and "known in the international car world" (what is an international car anyway?) Sorry but this is another US celebrity assumed to be internationally known. I agree that Cunningham should also be excluded; I've never believed that astronauts should be automatically included. Khasbulatov, if I'm understanding correctly, was the leader of a state for a time, so falls into a different category. Deb (talk) 18:29, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

If we're going to apply that level of exclusivity, a large portion of the sporting figures in 2022 should be culled. OhNoitsJamie 18:34, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by "that level of exclusivity". Gold medal winners and world champions have a specific achievement that can be measured. Is there something similar you can point to for Block? Deb (talk) 07:55, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Borderline exclude. Most people outside of the US and Canada haven't heard of him, and the niche of racing doesn't seem to be as internationally important or culturally/counterculturally recognized as anime or cryptocurrency. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 23:41, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Racing in general are more significant culturally in Indonesia so some of my friends knew about his death in my personal experience, but overall racing is nowhere that prominent as it was back in 2000s, nor it will ever be again. MarioJump83 (talk) 01:26, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

It's a tough one personally to say exclude...I wish racing would become more popular but this is the world we live in. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 13:36, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude due to lack of international notability. TheScrubby (talk) 01:03, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

This is a tough one but I'll say Borderline include. He was a notable racer based on Google Trends Top 5 countries are not even the United States but rather South Africa, Hungary, Paraguay, Argentina, and New Zealand. FireInMe (talk) 10:29, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

We don't include based on Google Trends; that measures popularity, not notability. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 11:36, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

That's a fair enough point. However, it does dismantle the argument that he "wasn't known outside the United States" that is patently false. FireInMe (talk) 13:31, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

He wasn't known outside the US to people who aren't fans of his sport. In comparison, most people who aren't football fans know of Pelé. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 14:35, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Block also wasn't known within the United States to people who aren't fans of his sport, just like most sportspeople. I agree that many people who aren't football fans know of Pelé but to say most would imply that you surveyed nearly 8 billion people, which would be very impressive. FireInMe (talk) 15:06, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

If a survey were done, I feel sure that it would show that most people in the world have heard of him. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 15:45, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

I do agree a significant amount of people would have heard of Pelé. But would it meet the bare minimum threshold of 50%+1 to constitute most of the world? Potentially but it's not a guarantee. FireInMe (talk) 16:37, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

You certainly won't find many people in Brazil who don't know who Pelé was, regardless of whether they are interested in football. Deb (talk) 15:29, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

@Deb Yes, that I can agree with you on. FireInMe (talk) 15:34, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

A substantial proportion of people who know of Pelé were born after he retired. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 15:45, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Highly likely, but I haven't seen any numbers. FireInMe (talk) 15:54, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Neutral Although he was a co-founder of DC Shoes and that company influenced other countries and parts of a foreign land, I saw those editors that oppose and exclude. Plus, DC Shows also became part of a global brand like Nike and Under Armor. I might not know if any other people from other countries have heard of him, at least the co-founder participated in racing sports and other Motorsport events. 204.129.232.191 (talk) 23:10, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Include since he is very notable for moto racing. And he was an co-founder of DC Shoes brand that had opened stores worldwide. -- 2601:205:C001:EA0:CD9B:1D0E:A169:4C27 (talk) 04:26, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Neutral Can't think of anything, only of more editors voted for include. -- 2601:205:C001:EA0:5158:F2E0:33F:651E (talk) 05:54, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Discussion on the main year inclusion criteria on WikiProject Years talk

Hi guys; I thought I would inform you of an ongoing discussion on Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Years concerning changing the criteria for inclusion on main year articles. You can view it at Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Years#Proposed reforms for Main Year article inclusion. Thanks! InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 04:39, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Fay Weldon (Result: exclusion)

Should Fay Weldon’s demise be included in the deaths section? She seems reasonably international as far as the Anglosphere goes. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 23:10, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude because she has little international notability. Some of her novels selling in some other countries isn't sufficient; that's true of a large number of authors. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 23:46, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Borderline Exclude due to insufficient fame garnered by her work InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 23:48, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude Her works are not internationally important, nor she is well known outside Europe. MarioJump83 (talk) 01:27, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Include This is probably my personal bias, but she was mega-famous in the UK and the Antipodes from the 1970s onwards, although it may be true that her work is not widely read nowadays. Deb (talk) 08:42, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Does that make her international enough? Many writers are very popular in a few countries. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 11:36, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude. Her works are used today in schools across the UK. I'm not sure if she was popular in the US or any other country though. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 12:14, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

We need to figure out inclusion standards for journalists, race car drivers, trading card makers, fashion designers.

As I said in the 2022 talk page. My thoughts : And I don't have any stake in this. Journalism figures are hard to measure in my view because well..... it's an Americentric field. The Peabody award is American. So are Emmys. And these are the only two major recognizable awards that I can think of that measures notability for Journalists. There are other international awards such as the Elizabeth Neuffer Memorial Prize, but it was established just 10 years ago. We won't be able to tell if that makes sense.

The Emphasis on " international awards " as a measure for notability in my view puts a crimp in fields such as Journalism, Literature, because it's going to be very very hard to determine notability, and that's the truth. Besides, how about people such as Anna Wintour ? She technically has no awards whatsoever.

And it's not just Journalism and Literature, it's race car drivers, trading card makers, fashion designers. My worry is that the standards we use for atheletes, and actors/singers does not work for EVERY field. Hint : It might even be.... Americentric. 2601:204:CF81:EC80:D48D:85F2:364D:A875 (talk) 02:08, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

We're discussing this presently in Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Years. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 10:50, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Tehemton Erach Udwadia (Result: exclusion)

Should Tehemton Erach Udwadia (not a made up name, trust) be included in the January deaths section? He seems to be like one of those scientists that are included in previous articles (such as June 2020). Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 12:13, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Borderline include. He wasn't known beyond Southeast Asia as much, but he was certainly a notable figure in science based on his achievements. I'm additionally wiki-linking his name in this discussion to lessen the chance of people doubting Udwadia exists. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 15:52, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude because I don't see any evidence of him having significant international notability. Working in more than one country is very common & is nowhere near enough. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 16:12, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude Doesn't seem to be doing anything of high importance outside India. MarioJump83 (talk) 12:07, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Kevin McCarthy's speakership election in the US Congress (Result: exclusion)

Do we really need that here? I think we've established that US domestic elections, even if strange, aren't notable enough. It's historic but not really that belonging here. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 19:01, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Definitely not; it's entirely domestic. Why did you reinstate it? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 19:25, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

I disagree. Domestic events can be of great importance. Perhaps we should revisit the domestic policy. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 20:39, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

They can be of great importance domestically, which is why they're on year by country articles. In any case, this isn't important & shouldn't have been added to this article. The only elections that are for main year articles are general/presidential ones. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 20:42, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Let's face it, year by country articles get fewer views than Jean-Christ Wajoka. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 21:02, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

That's no reason to add domestic events to main year articles. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:22, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

If you want to change consensus, there are active discussions on Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Years. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 03:05, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Domestic events can be important and be listed, but this doesn't even meet that threshold. I agree with Hopkins though on year-in articles getting less views, and for the sake of putting readers first, we do need domestic events. Not this one, though. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 03:04, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

We don't add domestic events for the sake of page views. If we were aiming to maximise page views, we'd include the Will Smith–Chris Rock slapping incident as well as some celebrity weddings on 2022. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:22, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

It's a no-brainer: no way. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:11, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

While it was interesting and the most votes since before Civil War, the end result was the same as the expected result, so really was just political theatre. Had a surprise Speaker emerged perhaps it would be notable enough for this page. Slywriter (talk) 04:01, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude Obvious local political event. --McSly (talk) 04:09, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

It was great for C-Span's ratings, indeed. But, it didn't stop the planet from rotating. So Exclude, as it belongs at the 2023 in the United States page. GoodDay (talk) 04:36, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Very easy Exclude; to argue otherwise would be pure Americentrism. Purely domestic political event that didn't lead to any change of government. It's rightly covered in 2023 in the United States. TheScrubby (talk) 04:45, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude per @Slywriter. It was a domestic political theatre mainly just a drawn out process delaying the inevitable. Just as @TheScrubby says it's rightly covered in 2023 in the United States. FireInMe (talk) 18:20, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Sports

We have far more sports events in this article than in previous main year articles. Which ones should be removed? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 19:25, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Removing for the sake of it doesn't help anyone. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 21:10, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

It's not for the sake of it. Main year articles only include the most important international sports events. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:22, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Wait until they pass, then determine notability. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 03:13, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

We don't wait for that. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:22, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Elaborate. FireInMe (talk) 14:58, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

According to who else? InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 16:02, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

You're seriously claiming that we need to wait until sports events have concluded in order to determine their level of international notability?! Jim Michael 2 (talk) 16:50, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

For most world championships, except for obviously single-country sports like American or Australian football, yup. We represent the world better. Deal with it. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 17:04, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

We didn't do that for previous main year articles. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 22:27, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Sir, welcome to Year in Topic. You will see how this works. For my part, I would remove all the ones that are tagged. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:47, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

The vast majority of them aren't tagged, but most should be removed. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:22, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

I do believe that we should get rid of sports event that's not worldwide, e.g. Asian Games, Pan American Games, Commonwealth Games, European Games, CONCACAF Gold Cup, etc. We can't have one rule for one continent and another for the rest. Deb (talk) 13:46, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

That’s a good idea…but I think I’d be willing to keep one or two of the most important mainly continental events, or those largest in scope, especially if there are quite a few different cultural regions at play. Examples of this phenomenon would be the pan American games (since there’s not only Latin America but also white America) and the Asian games due to the large population of Asia and how East Asia, Central Asia, the Indian subcontinent, Southeast Asia, and the Middle East are all distinct cultural groupings which just happen to be on a single continent. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 20:09, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Ruslan Khasbulatov (Result: no consensus for inclusion)

Should Ruslan Khasbulatov remain included? From what I can tell he seems to be a purely domestic Russian political figure with scant international notability; and who is mainly known for his role in the 1993 Russian constitutional crisis, which was an unsuccessful coup attempt. TheScrubby (talk) 04:49, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude because he's a domestic figure. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:22, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

You can be notable and have most of your contributions confined to a country. Years being exclusively international is a much worse view than years being mostly international, as you fail to take into account notable figures and trailblazers. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 20:46, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Include Not all domestic politicians have to be excluded and, in some cases, their political careers are sufficiently well known to be included. In my opinion, this is the case of Khasbulatov. _-_Alsor (talk) 12:57, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

What achievements make him notable enough to include? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 14:09, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Include. My opinion is the same as Alsor. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 16:02, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude I'm kind of baffled at why we're even arguing this one. He's not a key international figure or a former head of state. Nemov (talk) 21:42, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

@Austria Football 02: I invite you to give your two cents here rather than continuously removing the importance tag when this discussion has yet to be concluded, and Khasbulatov’s international notability has not been sufficiently proven here. TheScrubby (talk) 01:11, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

@TheScrubby This was not an unsuccessful coup attempt, this was a successful coup carried out by Boris Yeltsin and not by Khasbulatov! The constitutional crisis in Russia in 1993 led to the end of the young democracy (duality of power between president and parliament - Supreme Soviet) in Russia and ensured that there was a "super-presidential" system of government in the Russian Federation from that moment on. The constitutional crisis of 1993 (also known as Black October or Yeltsin's coup in Russia) led to today's dictatorship of Vladimir Putin. Yeltsin's hunger for power created Putin's current power system in the first place. The deputies of the Supreme Soviet under their parliament speaker Ruslan Khasbulatov were on the good side during the constitutional crisis - they had the law and the constitution behind them. The deputies of the Supreme Soviet deposed Boris Yeltsin as President of the Russian Federation for repeatedly violating the Constitution, and in return appointed Ruslan Khasbulatov as Interim President! Unfortunately, this only lasted until Boris Yeltsin and the army violently had the White House in Moscow shelled with tanks on October 4, 1993 and had all deputies of the Supreme Soviet arrested, including Ruslan Khasbulatov! You dear @TheScrubby don't seem to know much about this topic! Finally, Ruslan Khasbulatov is an important political figure in Russian history based on the facts I outlined above and is therefore definitely important enough to be listed among the dead in the main Misplaced Pages article for 2023! At least as important or even more important than a British writer or a Jordanian Prime Minister! Khasbulatov was in fact the declared interim president of Russia! Austria Football 02 (talk) 05:50, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Whether or not Yeltsin or Khasbulatov was in the right or was the “good side” is irrelevant here. None of this demonstrates anything other than Khasbulatov being a domestic political figure within Russia that belongs in 2023 in Russia. And, for the record, Khasbulatov was never appointed interim President - it was Alexander Rutskoy, previously the Vice President under Yeltsin. If anything he would have a stronger claim for inclusion here than Khasbulatov. TheScrubby (talk) 11:33, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

@TheScrubby No one can tell me that people like Jeff Beck and George Pell are more important in world history than Ruslan Khasbulatov, who was practically the antagonist of Russia's then President Boris Yeltsin during the 1993 constitutional crisis (also known as Yeltsin's coup, Black October in Russia) . Look how many international media have reported his death. Now if the former Speaker of the US House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi were to die (hopefully not, hopefully she will have many, many more wonderful years), you would note her 100% on the main article of 2023.I am definitely not saying that other Russian Parliamentary Speakers belong on the Misplaced Pages main article (definitely not!), but he is important enough! He led the Yeltsin opponents during the 1993 constitutional crisis, he was the face of the opposing faction (Supreme Soviet) during one of the most important domestic political events in Russia in recent decades! Especially because this event was the origin of what is currently happening in Russia in terms of domestic politics! By the way, on the 2015 main article was also noted Russian opposition politician Boris Nemtzov. No one can tell me that an opposition politician like Nemtzov was more important in Russian history than Ruslan Khasbulatov! In the end I want to say that I definitely don't want to remove Jeff Beck, George Pell or Boris Nemtzov from the 2015 and 2023 main article, I just say that a Ruslan Khasbulatov definitely belongs on the main article of the year as well! As an Austrian I have 100% nothing to do with Russia or Russian politics, I'm just saying that this person is important enough to be on the main article! Austria Football 02 (talk) 07:02, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

We don’t use whataboutisms to argue for people, especially if they are from categories that are fundamentally impossible to compare, such as Jeff Beck and George Pell as you brought up - both internationally notable in their own right in their own respective categories. We don’t use international media coverage as a criteria for inclusion here; that is something that we have long repudiated here. Nancy Pelosi would not be included here in the event of her death because she was also a domestic figure who held domestic posts, and whose international counterparts would never even remotely be considered for inclusion here. Boris Nemtzov should also be removed, although an argument could be made for him as a borderline inclusion, especially given the circumstances of his death - but nevertheless not everybody has the free time and inclination to comb through every yearly article of domestic figures. Once again all your arguments in favour of Khasbulatov point to him being a purely domestic political figure who is already rightly included in 2023 in Russia. I highly recommend you take a look at the political figures criteria we’ve had in place for some time now, which you can read in the FAQs at the top of the page. TheScrubby (talk) 07:21, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Earl Boen (Result: exclusion)

Does Earl Boen deserve to be in the deaths list? im just wondering :) ShaggyAnimate (talk) 08:54, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Not sure. I only really know him from the Terminator movies. He was great in them, but I don't know if his notability stretches beyond that. Wjfox2005 (talk) 11:31, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't know if he's doing anything notable outside acting. MarioJump83 (talk) 12:09, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude because he has no international notability. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:22, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude - I'm familiar with a lot of actors but I've never even heard of him. Deb (talk) 12:38, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude per all above. _-_Alsor (talk) 12:58, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude I know many of the characters he voiced but I never would have placed the name of the actor to them. He clearly didn't achieve that much notability from the characters. FireInMe (talk) 14:56, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Lean Exclude. He’s a sort of famous actor, but only had a supporting role, and really only famous for one movie. You can’t make the same case for him as you could with someone like Zoe Saldaña. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 20:42, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude He's just not notable enough. Nemov (talk) 21:38, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude due to insufficient international notability, per all above. TheScrubby (talk) 22:55, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

Inline citations

There's no exception for predicted and scheduled events. In fact, all the more reason for them to have to include citations to prove they are not invented by the contributor. Deb (talk) 16:36, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

I completely agree. FireInMe (talk) 18:25, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

I fully endorse the instantaneous removal of anything on year articles which do not have reliably sourced citations. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 20:40, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Why is there only one Argentine in 2022's Deaths section?

i feel like 2022 didnt have that much of international deaths, same with this year's 2023 article, the only 2020's year who have a lot of deaths confirmed was in the 2020 article deaths list, i feel like the covid 19 pandemic if dissapearing for existince and that's very good, and we dont have to use facemasks anymore and thats good too, but theres one problem, the deaths list of 2022 and 2023 is kinda little, i mean theyre have been not a lot of deaths in these recent years, and i dont know why, the 2020 and 2021 years article have a lot of argentines in the deaths list and they have been a lot of mentions about argentina in those two articles ShaggyAnimate (talk) 17:38, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

You can't possibly be asking for Misplaced Pages to include people based entirely on their nationality? Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 18:34, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

We shouldn’t be having a bias towards people of any single nation (as this would likely violate Misplaced Pages’s neutral point of view policy), but my personal opinion is that if people did have a life-changing impact on the vast majority of people through their contributions to society, even if confined to a single nation, they do deserve a thorough discussion. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 20:44, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't know why you've written this on the talk page of 2023. Internationally notable people from any country die in different numbers in different years. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 22:27, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

sorry, i felt stupid for writing that :/ ShaggyAnimate (talk) 23:25, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Roberto Dinamite (Result: exclusion)

I do not believe this individual is anywhere near notable enough to be included in the deaths section. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 19:31, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude I agree, not a notable figure outside of Brazil. Nemov (talk) 21:45, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude due to insufficient international notability. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 22:27, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

First photo of collage suggestion (Result: all discussion on collage premature as of now; hold off until later in the year)

I think that the storming of the Brazilian congress should be in the collage when there are eventually enough photos to make one 69.80.22.185 (talk) 01:13, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Sure. And also the funeral of Pope Benedict XVI. _-_Alsor (talk) 08:22, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Oppose - neither the storming of the Brazilian Congress nor the storming of the US Congress in 2021 should be included in the photo collages; and their inclusions here overall are, at most, borderline. TheScrubby (talk) 10:39, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Why do you consider that the assault on the most important institutions of a country are not sufficiently notorious when they are developed in apparent coup attempts? _-_Alsor (talk) 12:24, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Even if this is viewed as an attempted coup, we don't usually include those on main year articles. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 18:28, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

My stance for unsuccessful coup attempts is to include/exclude based on deaths, scale, and destruction, but I also factor in associated movements, associated figures, the rarity of coups or coup attempts in such country (exclude most coup attempts in places like Syria or other known battlegrounds), media coverage, and reactions. Those first few reasons are why I believe Brasilia and J6 are no-brainers for inclusion since they significantly damaged notable government buildings and involved thousands, while Germany should not be on main year articles since it was only a comparatively smaller group, even though Brasilia (at least to me) got about as much international coverage as Germany. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 20:26, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

It is for the reasons that you argue that I think the (ramshackle, quixotic) coup attempts in Brasilia and Washington can be added as borderline inclusions, but do not merit images on the photo collages for the main yearly pages. If the coup attempt was successful (such as with Myanmar in 2021), or if mass protests led to a change of government (such as with Kazakhstan last year), then those are far more internationally notable and do merit places on the photo collages. TheScrubby (talk) 22:46, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

I would agree with likely getting rid of stuff like Brasilia and J6, but I would also consider collage additions of protests which went global to a significant degree, where everybody was watching them akin to a World Cup match. In recent memory, only Mahsa Amini (and if you squint at it, George Floyd) would fulfill that. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 20:32, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Not yet. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 11:44, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Too early to say. We're less than 10 days into this year. Wjfox2005 (talk) 15:48, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

The 2023 storming of the Brazilian Congress is entirely domestic & shouldn't be in the article, let alone its collage. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 18:28, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Support both Benedict's funeral and the storming of the Brazilian congress, when the time comes, unless a more notable event happens before. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 22:14, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Why should the Brasilia riots be included in this article? They were a one-day, domestic attack in which no-one was killed. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 11:28, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

You can't be serious, Jim. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 20:21, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

I am. Even if you regard it as a coup attempt, it's not important enough. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 14:48, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Oppose any collage images until at least halfway through the year. I wouldn't object to either of these events being included in the Events section though. Deb (talk) 08:22, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

I agree with @Deb. It's way too early within the year to determine what images should go on the collage. Let other events play out and then determine. FireInMe (talk) 14:30, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Works from 1927 entering US Public Domain (Result: exclusion)

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I found a statement from this article to be added:

January 1 - Books, films, and other works published in 1927 enter the public domain.

There is one where media works came to public domain this year. 204.129.232.191 (talk) 16:21, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. See discussion further up this talk page. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:29, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

We don't include this in main year articles. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 18:28, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

References

Jenkins, Jennifer. "Public Domain Day 2023". Center for the Study of Public Domain. Duke University School of Law. Retrieved 4 January 2023.

Walter Cunningham (Result: exclusion)

Does Walter Cunningham’s achievements as an astronaut merit inclusion here? I bring this up because an importance tag has been placed on his entry for some time now, and no discussion has taken place yet. TheScrubby (talk) 23:34, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

There has long been a consensus that being the last of something does not merit inclusion. I'd say exclude. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 00:04, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Agree with Sir. Exclude him. _-_Alsor (talk) 08:12, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude due to a lack of international notability. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 14:48, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Include because he was the last member of the Apolo 7 mission ShaggyAnimate (talk) 22:27, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

See the comment by Sir Jack Hopkins. TheScrubby (talk) 22:36, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

i know that but apollo 7 was international you know ShaggyAnimate (talk) 23:00, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

walter deserves to be included in this article because apolo 7 was international ShaggyAnimate (talk) 22:30, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

2023 New Zealand general election

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Can you add the 2023 New Zealand general election in the date unknown box. 122.58.18.103 (talk) 08:46, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

That depends on the location. 204.129.232.191 (talk) 21:43, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Wait - I think we should wait until the election date is officially called, especially since the election isn’t actually due until, at latest, January 2024. TheScrubby (talk) 22:14, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Not done for now: Re-open a new request when the date is announced ~ Eejit43 (talk) 19:47, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Should Charles Simic be included ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/Charles_Simic#Personal_life_and_death

He seems to have awards from many international organizations for his poetry work. 2601:204:CF81:EC80:D48D:85F2:364D:A875 (talk) 18:09, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

No, very few people viewing this article will have ever heard of him. Just another desperately unknown figure who achieved decent things. Not enough to be included, I would say. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 20:30, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Super Bowl LVII (Result: exclusion)

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Greetings, should we include this event in this article?

February 12 – Super Bowl LVII scheduled at State Farm Stadium in Glendale, Arizona.

There is a Superbowl prediction that will happen in Glendale, Arizona in few months, plus a few sports. 204.129.232.191 (talk) 18:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

No, because it's a domestic event. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 19:12, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

It's one of the most watched sporting events in the world, so I say include. Domestic, sure, but bloody notable. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 20:27, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

To include the Super Bowl on an international year article would be Americentrism. TheScrubby (talk) 21:17, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

We never include domestic sports events. We don't include any of the Grand Slams because tennis isn't considered international enough. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 21:24, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Strong oppose - domestic sports event with little interest outside the United States, for a sport (gridiron football) that is not widely played outside the United States. We wouldn’t include the AFL Grand Final, for example. The FIFA World Cup this is not, in terms of international sporting notability. TheScrubby (talk) 21:09, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

@TheScrubby Although, it is found only in the USA and no other country has that, why wasn't it notable enough to include it, when there are events like politics in the USA, included in international year articles? 204.129.232.191 (talk) 21:26, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

We’ve had issues with Americentrism in the past, and we’re not now going to add anything that would reinforce it. Not everybody has time to go through all the past year articles to trim it of domestic, internationally unnotable events. The Super Bowl has no international notability, as it is for a sport that is mainly localised to the US, and for which every team is American. We have pages like 2023 in the United States for a reason. TheScrubby (talk) 21:35, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Which domestic US political events are in main year articles? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 22:54, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

@Jim Michael 2 @TheScrubby, Look at 2023 in politics and government and Last year. That especially includes Capital Storming in the beginning of 2021 and national elections. Then, you will know what I mean by why some non-political events aren't included and added to this year's article and how to include some of them by discussing this page by each event. 204.129.232.191 (talk) 16:32, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

The January 6 United States Capitol attack should be removed from 2021. Most general/presidential elections are included. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 18:19, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

To me, I might either say Include or Neutral. Super Bowl Events might be important to many of Americans. 204.129.232.191 (talk) 16:34, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

That’s not the way we do things here though. We’re not going to add domestic competitions for sports that are localised mainly in one country, nor will we apply a different set of standards for events from one country compared to the rest. We wouldn’t include the Super Bowl just as we wouldn’t include the AFL Grand Final, the All-Ireland Senior Football Championship, etc. TheScrubby (talk) 19:19, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

However, you do have a decent point, unlike other sporting events, we aren't sure that if players from different countries have recognized this event or partake in. 204.129.232.191 (talk) 22:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Oppose - This is an easy oppose. This is an American event for which people outside the US have very little interest. Nemov (talk) 19:39, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Oppose. No one cares about the Super Bowl outside of America. If American Football was a more globally dominant sport, then I'd be open to inclusion, but the only people these days who care about American football are America, maybe Canada, maybe Mexico, maybe London, and maybe Munich. That's it. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 20:30, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Include People and users outside the USA, can watch the sporting event, although it is only hosted in United States of America. -- 2601:205:C001:EA0:CD9B:1D0E:A169:4C27 (talk) 04:28, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

You could say the same about literally any other sports competition. That doesn’t make it internationally notable at all. TheScrubby (talk) 04:53, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I can understand about the point you got. 204.129.232.191 (talk) 16:21, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

References

DeArdo, Bryan (December 8, 2022). "Where is the 2023 Super Bowl: Arizona Cardinals' State Farm Stadium in Glendale will host Super Bowl LVII". CBSSports.com. Retrieved 2023-01-02.

George Pell (Result: inclusion)

Does having been Secretariat of the Economy make him internationally notable enough? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 21:24, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

I’d lean towards inclusion - Pell was regularly described as among the most senior (specifically the third most senior) Catholics in the world (certainly the most senior an Australian has ever gotten), and among the most powerful and influential in the Vatican. Combine that with his notability over his role in dealing with the child sexual abuse scandals within the Church, and his own downfall and imprisonment (and acquittal) due to personal allegations of child sex abuse. Yeah, easily among the most internationally high profile senior Catholic figures of recent decades. TheScrubby (talk) 21:48, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

"Very few recent figures in the Catholic church have left such a divisive legacy as Pell, who died at age 81 from cardiac arrest after minor hip surgery. He was once considered the third most powerful person in the church, and the rise, fall, and redemption of a powerful conservative has served to both energize and muddy the conversations within the church about sex abuse and justice."

https://slate.com/human-interest/2023/01/cardinal-george-pell-complex-legacy.html 2601:204:CF81:EC80:D48D:85F2:364D:A875 (talk) 22:24, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Include due to his significant role in the Catholic Church and subsequent scandal. Neutral on an image. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 20:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Should we put an image of George Pell in the deaths list? I mean, he has an image in the deaths list of the 1941 article, so why not put an image of him in the 2023 article's deaths list? ShaggyAnimate (talk) 23:46, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

oops, i mean births list ShaggyAnimate (talk) 23:47, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

of 1941, sorry, i was pretty quicky ShaggyAnimate (talk) 23:47, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

While I agree with Pell’s inclusion in the article, there are other figures who ought to take priority for an image. Such as Jeff Beck and Constantine II. TheScrubby (talk) 00:42, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 16:17, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Should we add Jorge Ballesteros to the list?

he was a olympic shooting world champion, is that makes him notable enoguh in the world? ShaggyAnimate (talk) 23:13, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

oops autocorrect sorry, i was meaning "enough" ShaggyAnimate (talk) 23:13, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

If we included Opympic gold medalists, these articles would be endless. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 11:47, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

We already have a consensus for some years now where Olympic individual gold medalists are included. Though we exclude those that won only team gold medals. As for Ballesteros, while he did win gold medals in various shooting tournaments, he never competed in the Olympics. Count me as Neutral overall, given that he was clearly very accomplished in his field, albeit a field that is admittedly extremely niche. TheScrubby (talk) 12:58, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Well it's a bad consensus then given how many gold medalists there have been. We should include people based on fame more so than merely achievements, especially when said achievemts are redundant. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 16:11, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Fame isn't a good measure. There are dozens of reality show participants, TV presenters etc. who are much more famous than most highly-accomplished scientists. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 16:32, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Should we put 5 images for January just like last year? (Result: depends how much space there is at the end of the month)

Here are the possible contenders 1. Constantine of Greece 2. Jeff Beck 3. George Pell 136.158.124.85 (talk) 04:42, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

The number of images per month depends entirely on how much space there is at the end of each month, which is impossible to determine until after this month has concluded. It’s as simple as that. The number of images included in January 2022 is irrelevant. TheScrubby (talk) 04:52, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Only Constantine II should get a picture from those three. But it's too early to discuss. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 11:44, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Constantine II should get priority yeah, though Beck is also fully deserving of an image as one of the most important and influential guitarists of all time. TheScrubby (talk) 12:54, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Predicted and scheduled events clean-up

As with many year entries, the predicted and scheduled events for this year are cluttered with entries that were likely put in at points where there were less strict standards in what we include in main year articles. I propose we remove the following:

All celestial events with little to no impact internationally or scientifically (eclipses, distances of satellites, etc.)
All non-global competitive events (Eurovision, Africa Super league, Pan-Asian games, CONCACAF Gold Cup, etc.)
Any election where the outcome doesn't effect world leaders

I think these are reasonable, but in my point of view I'd also remove any global games that aren't a globally popular sport ie the rugby world cup doesn't have nearly as much international notability as the olympics or the FIFA world cups but that is my own perspective and I don't think there'd be much agreement. PaulRKil (talk) 13:52, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Eurovision shouldn't be here. It's popular, but not an important or serious competition. It's a popularity contest in which countries award the most points to the countries they most like rather than those whose songs are best. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 15:27, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

I completely about eclipses. Hardly anyone notices. Absolutely irrelevant and occupies too much space. The Eurovision Song Contest is however global given how Australia and Israel, Azerbaijan and Armenia compete. Keep that one, even though Jim Michael 2 is completely right about how the winner is awarded. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 16:16, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Keep Eurovision. While Jim makes a good point on deciding the winner, it's an international popularity contest. My opinion concurs with Hopkins on Eurovision, and further commenting would be redundancy. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 20:27, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude Eurovision and the celestial events. Wouldn’t be opposed to removing election entries that don’t result in a change of government/leader. Neutral on the rest. TheScrubby (talk) 07:40, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude the celestial events in general, although there may be one or two exceptions for extremely rare events like transits of Venus.

Alt proposal for elections: What I would propose additionally is to add a new section to main year articles for elections. We've done something like that on 2022 in the United States for all the American elections that year, and if we have all general elections included in their own section (neutral though lean exclude on including less important elections like American midterms), people who want electoral data for the year can more easily sort through it rather than having to count everything out of the events space. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 22:15, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Should we add Jorge O. Calvo to the deaths list just like we did with Jose F. Bonaparte in the 2020 article?

i dont know who's more famous, but i guess jose f. bonaparte is more famous than him ShaggyAnimate (talk) 14:32, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

forget it, jose f. bonaparte is more famous than him, dont add him to the list ShaggyAnimate (talk) 14:36, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Neither merit inclusion but one of the individuals you mentioned died close to three years ago... Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 16:09, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

yeah i know that, duh ShaggyAnimate (talk) 22:42, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Super Nintendo World (Result: exclusion)

EXCLUDED No need to keep this open, we've established it doesn't belong here. ― Blaze Wolf_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 16:38, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

One more thing to say, do you all think that this event will be included in the article list?

February 17 - Super Nintendo World is planned to open to the public in Universal Studios Hollywood in California, albeit reservations are required from park guests at grand opening.

I have heard that the place is opening in Hollywood, plus this place previously opened in Japan. Also, that place is starting to open in places like Florida and Singapore. Since this is related to video games, I think that should be important enough to include it in this article. 204.129.232.191 (talk) 19:45, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't think so. IT might be more relevant in a 2023 video game article but I Don't think it quite fits here. ― Blaze Wolf_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 19:47, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Not done Not convinced it should be on any WPYEARS article. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 20:25, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude due to zero international notability, as per InvadingInvader. TheScrubby (talk) 20:37, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

@Blaze Wolf @InvadingInvader @TheScrubby But it is exclusive to SoCal, which is the most influential and leader of entertainment to cities in global. Are you going to think that theme park openings, especially roller coasters, are notable enough or they have significant and factual sources to be added to this article? 204.129.232.191 (talk) 21:03, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes. You just explained why it's not appropriate to include here. It's exclusive to SoCal so it doesn't have international notability. ― Blaze Wolf_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 21:04, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Alright, but at least it opened in Universal Studios Japan, Singapore, and Epic Universe. In all which are located in different countries and a state. 204.129.232.191 (talk) 21:12, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

No opening of theme parks or rides should be included on the main yearly pages, regardless of location. TheScrubby (talk) 21:20, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

@TheScrubby Reasons on opening of theme parks or rides snot being included on the main yearly pages, regardless of location, although it is influenced worldwide. 204.129.232.191 (talk) 23:12, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

With little exception, it shouldn't be on ANY year article. Not even the "Year In" ones. Only exception is if we start a "Year In Theme Parks" series of pages. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 22:08, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Pop culture things such as amusement/theme parks, films, plays, TV/radio/web shows, singles, albums, concerts, novels, fashions etc. have no place in main year articles. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:50, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

@Jim Michael 2 But what is the reason why pop culture things don't have any place in main year articles? How? 204.129.232.191 (talk) 16:34, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Because they aren't significant. ― Blaze Wolf_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 16:37, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References

Lawler, Richard (December 14, 2022). "The first US Super Nintendo World opens its doors on February 17th". The Verge. Retrieved December 14, 2022.
"Reservations will be required for Super Nintendo World's opening at Universal Studios Hollywood". GoNintendo. November 3, 2022. Retrieved November 3, 2022.

Owen Roizman (Result: no consensus for inclusion; substantial international notability not proven)

Does Owen Roizman have the substantial international notability to be included here, for his work as a cinematographer? Another figure who has had an importance tag places for some days now. TheScrubby (talk) 20:50, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

well, the exorcist win an oscar, so yeah, he's notable enough to stay in the list ShaggyAnimate (talk) 22:15, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

wait, i see that the only crew members of the exorcist who win an oscar was William Peter Blatty and Robert Knudson, now i dont know if let him stay in the list or not :/ ShaggyAnimate (talk) 22:18, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

We typically only include Oscar winners from the Best Director and Best Actor/Actress and Best Supporting Actor/Actress categories - otherwise there’d be too many inclusions from the entertainment field. Roizmann was neither the director of The Exorcist nor one of the actors, and in any case Roizmann did not win an Oscar for cinematography for that film, nor did he win any Oscars in general (with the exception of an Honorary award). Furthermore, people don’t automatically gain the notability of the films they worked on. TheScrubby (talk) 22:22, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

owen roizman deserves to be in this list and heres the reason why: he received an Academy Honorary Award in 2017 La Orca Masorca (talk) 23:37, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

There is already a section dedicated to this debate. But if I speak my mind, it wouldn't go down well. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 23:39, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Include, sure why not. Don't see a problem with him in. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 22:16, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

You reckon he has the substantial international notability for inclusion? So far there hasn’t been a strong argument in favour of inclusion in his case. TheScrubby (talk) 23:28, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Sports criteria tier list (Result: implemented as proposed)

@InvadingInvader: has (on the WikiProject page) come up with a proposed tier list for sports figures that I think would be an acceptable basis for how we can include sports figures as well as sporting events. With minor edits, this is how such a proposed criteria would look:

Tier 1: Association football, Cricket, Golf, and Tennis - as well as individual (not team) gold medalists of international sports competitions such as the Olympic Games. Include figures if at least globally known within the sport's culture.

Tier 2: Baseball, Ice hockey, Rugby football, and Basketball. Include figures if globally known beyond the sport, and include the most notable of the sport's world ambassadors or most widely-successful promoters.

Tier 3: National footballs (Australian rules football, Gaelic football, Gridiron football), Lacrosse, Field hockey, and everything else. Generally exclude with exceptions made only for the most outstanding, arguably “once in a generation” type figures, equivalent to Pelé and Lionel Messi for soccer, or Don Bradman and Sachin Tendulkar for cricket - though in the event of inclusion they will not be prioritised for an image.

Feel free to discuss, and propose amendments where you feel is necessary. TheScrubby (talk) 21:16, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

I agree, though we should be reasonably lax when it comes to enforcing this. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 22:23, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Include on tier 3. I'm sure that this tier will help the article to be improved. 204.129.232.191 (talk) 22:59, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

I assume you mean you support the tier criteria as proposed? TheScrubby (talk) 23:49, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes I am. This is how I choose. 204.129.232.191 (talk) 16:17, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

While we’re sorting out this criteria, where does everybody think boxing and wrestling fit in the tier list? TheScrubby (talk) 00:51, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Tier 2. Wrestling is not a sport, while boxing has its occasional unavoidable, universal superstars. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 01:09, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Do you mean professional wrestling? The Optimistic One (talk) 09:08, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Professional wrestling is what I’m referring to, yes. TheScrubby (talk) 13:17, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Tier 2, but I'm also open to Tier 3. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 17:29, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

I'd move cricket to Tier 2 and Rugby to Tier 3. Reviewing Google Trend data for web search/news coverage cricket is closer to basketball than association football. Rugby is far below baseball/basketball. As far as the Olympic are concerned gold winning medalists would have to be taken on a case by case basis. There are a lot of gold medalists and not every gold medalist is internationally notable. Nemov (talk) 20:38, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Support TheScrubby's revisions, though I am also open to Nemov's suggestions. Presently there is an ongoing discussion on whether to axe the deaths section entirely on the WikiProject page; in the event such proposal succeeds, I would propose that this criteria be used for adding photos on Births and Deaths in Year X Articles. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 17:29, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Lisa Marie Presley (Result: exclusion)

Should Lisa Marie Presley death remain included? Nemov (talk) 18:44, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I think she should be included, but she was an entirely domestic figure and, knowing the people inhabiting this particular talk page, it’s impossible she will remain there. Exclude her, spare us a lengthy Misplaced Pages debate. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 19:16, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

She should definitely be included, the amount of media attention alone warrants it, regardless of the debate of her being a domestic figure. FrankieM344 (talk) 19:29, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

What kind of grounds for inclusion is that? We never include people based on media attention. Otherwise entirely non-notable people such as Gabby Petito would be included. We include people based on international notability, and being the daughter of a (very) internationally notable singer is not grounds for international notability. TheScrubby (talk) 21:25, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Completley agree, I remember news coverage being rejected as a factor in including people's deaths since long ago. It's a long-established consensus. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 21:39, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Gabby Petito's coverage was directly linked to her going missing and murder. Lisa Marie Presley had coverage about her career throughout the decades, I don't think those two are a fair comparison. That being said I lean exclude (for the time being) in regards to Presley. FireInMe (talk) 23:19, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

The point is, Presley was notable first and foremost as being the daughter of Elvis, and if she was known for anything else, it was for her high profile marriages to Michael Jackson and to a lesser extent Nicolas Cage, as well as her being the mother of Riley Keough (who as an actress has achieved greater notability than Lisa Marie, albeit still not sufficiently internationally notable for inclusion here). Her career can hardly be described as internationally notable, and she didn’t enjoy anywhere close to the success of her father in her forays into music. TheScrubby (talk) 00:20, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I'm in full agreement with you on those points. FireInMe (talk) 11:51, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

I don't think Presley should be included. Aside from being Elvis's daughter and an ex-wife to Michael Jackson and Nicholas Cage, I don't see any inclusion on LMP. Kyu (talk) 20:14, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude She's a domestic figure. Nemov (talk) 20:24, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Include. I think her fame is notable enough for inclusion. Wjfox2005 (talk) 21:19, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Easy Exclude - she had no international notability and her main claim to fame, which even most obituaries emphasise first and foremost, is the fact that she was the daughter of Elvis Presley. We don’t include people because of the notability of their parents, and Lisa Marie does not automatically gain the notability of her father. This discussion would not be taking place in the first place, and nobody would be trying to include her had her father not been Elvis. TheScrubby (talk) 21:20, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

And her other claims to fame are her ex-husbands. Again, she's clearly domestic and I change my previous opinion, easy exclude. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 21:41, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude because she has very little international notability. Main year articles don't include domestic figures due to their fame or media coverage. If we did, we'd include dozens of reality show participants, TV presenters & socialities. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 22:41, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I waffled on this one, but I'll say Exclude for the time being. FireInMe (talk) 23:15, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

The name of Lisa Marie Presley should be added as having passed away on January 13, 2023 under the heading "Deaths". Churn.the.Butter (talk) 19:53, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

She's being discussed above. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 20:05, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Murtaza Rakhimov (Result: exclusion)

Should Murtaza Rakhimov death remain included? Nemov (talk) 20:55, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude, very localised fame. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 21:46, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude - domestic politician that belongs in 2023 in Russia. TheScrubby (talk) 22:04, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Request to semi-protect this page

There is a user who's name I will not mention (due to good faith), but I highly suspect he is the sockpuppet of a previously banned user who vandalised this article yesterday. I suggest we make this page semi-protected, to clamp down on vandals and potential sockpuppets, as was done in previous year articles. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 23:46, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

ShaggyAnimate has been indeffed for frequent vandalism. This article is semi-protected; are you suggesting semi-protecting this talk page as well? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 01:56, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

2023 invasion of the Brazilian Congress

This was a one-day, non-fatal, domestic event. Buildings & some of their contents were damaged/stolen, but the buildings remain in use & the gov in power. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:50, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Neutral, but leaning towards exclude, for the reasons you've given. Wjfox2005 (talk) 19:14, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Include. In addition to damage, it's led to massive amounts of arrests, the possible extradition of Bolsonaro, and involved a very large amount of people. Such amount is why I support inclusion of the Brazilian drama and J6 while would prefer to exclude the Reichstag incident from a few months ago. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 07:49, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Damage, thefts, injuries & arrests are commonplace for riots. The severity of each wasn't unusual. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 11:20, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

At most, this is a borderline inclusion, as per the arguments proposed by InvadingInvader - ditto the events of January 6. In no way should the event merit a collage image though. TheScrubby (talk) 03:19, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Include per InvadingInvader PaulRKil (talk) 03:15, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Question

can i/we put in the deaths list the things that those notable people were famous for? La Orca Masorca (talk) 19:29, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

If you mean stating which film, song, competition etc. each is best known for, no, because it's excessive info. Occupation is sufficient. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 21:22, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Vakhtang Kikabidze (Result:)

Should Vakhtang Kikabidze's death remain included? Nemov (talk) 23:09, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

I struggle to see how he qualifies as internationally notable, seems to me like he was a reasonably local Soviet celebrity. I move towards exclusion. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 01:41, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude There doesn't appear to be much notability outside the former Soviet states. Nemov (talk) 14:36, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Should we add Carl Hahn to the list?

he was the president of the Volkswagen Group La Orca Masorca (talk) 00:22, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Oui, in my redundant opinion. Have a nice day! Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 01:38, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

No, and I think heads of businesses - even if they're multinationals - are rarely important enough. He made VW more successful, but many people have done likewise for their companies & I fail see how that makes him an important international figure. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 16:54, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Gina Lollobrigida (Result:)

I think, she's famous enough for an inclusion? 136.158.124.85 (talk) 12:04, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

I'd support inclusion. She seems to be internationally recognized and historic to world culture. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 15:15, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Support For those unfamiliar, here's a good overview of her career. She's sufficiently notable for her career outside of Italy. Nemov (talk) 15:36, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Exclude. Doesn't strike me as being particularly notable, certainly a pretty domestic figure, with some (albeit limited) recognition in the rest of the world. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 18:36, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Include as per InvadingInvader and Nemov. TheScrubby (talk) 00:59, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Support per above, I can agree on other reasons editors gave out. 204.129.232.191 (talk) 16:27, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Include per above. -- 2601:205:C001:EA0:5158:F2E0:33F:651E (talk) 05:53, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Who should we add a image of?

A: Constantine II B: Jeff Beck C: Gina Lollobrigida D: George Pell La Orca Masorca (talk) 15:37, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Constantine II. I think all monarchs should get pictures. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 18:24, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Constantine II. GoodDay (talk) 18:52, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Once there’s enough space, I have no objections to this ordering of image preferences in particular - so Constantine II, followed by Beck, and (if nobody else more notable passes) then Lollobrigida. TheScrubby (talk) 18:54, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I’d now prioritise K. Alex Müller for the potential third image, over Lollobrigida and Pell. TheScrubby (talk) 03:50, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Lucile Randon

We shouldn't include people for being the oldest verified to be living at the end of their lives - a title which has been held by dozens of people - nor for reaching a particular age. The only exception should be Jeanne Calment because she was the oldest of all time. Likewise we shouldn't include people for being the richest, tallest or shortest, heaviest or lightest, only/last survivor, most prolific, having had the longest career etc. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 09:18, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Borderline inclusion - I make the same argument here that I made in favour of Kane Tanaka last year, which I’ll quote in verbatim:

out of billions of people on the planet who have lived over the last century or so, only about 1,000-1,500 end up living to 110 and over at any one time. And of that miniscule number, just four have been officially verified to have reached the age of 118 and over - Tanaka herself was the first of just two people to reach that milestone this century alone. Their longevity may be their only point of notability, but it doesn't make it any less significant, especially when we're talking about their significance in the field of gerontology (it's said on Tanaka's Wiki page as well that she "has contributed to the debate that the maximum lifespan for humans could be 115–125 years"). Just including any supercentenarian or current "world's oldest person" title is not what I'm advocating, but the ones who made it over 118 I think should be an exception. Having said that, I would oppose the inclusion of "last survivor" supercentenarians such as Emma Morano (last person born in the 1800s), Violet Brown (last subject of Queen Victoria), Nabi Tajima (last person born in the 19th Century), and other such figures, for none of them reached the 118 milestone… they absolutely are important if we’re talking on a biological scale and the field of gerontology. And I don’t think the inclusion of the four 118+ year olds (plus the oldest ever man, Jiroemon Kimura) would be too much of an issue, particularly given that only one has died at such an age in the last 22 years, and there are only two prior to that. So long as we strictly limit ourselves to them so far as supercentenarians are concerned. TheScrubby (talk) 10:14, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Rarity doesn't grant international notability. There's nothing special about 118. If you'd said 120, you'd have a good case. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:53, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Strong include. All people who have held the title of oldest living person should be guaranteed an inclusion because they are representing their respective years. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 12:10, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

There are dozens who've held that title. How do they represent their years in anything other than gerontology? Who thinks of 2022 as the year that Tanaka died? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:53, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

A few points...

1) El Chapo's son was captured and arrested on January 6th. It made global news and had impact on global criminal enterprises. It came after large gun battles on the streets between the Mexican Armed Forces and cartel soldiers. Also the arrest of the Italian mafia man is absolutely of enough important to merit its inclusion in the events list. 2) Isn't 2023 designated as the 'Year of the Millet' by the United Nations? Usually recent year articles make note of UN year designations. 88.110.119.72 (talk) 10:14, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Domestic arrests of criminals aren't important enough for main year articles, even if those criminals have international connections.

We decided to stop including UN Year of things because they're trivia. The only exception would be if something very important resulted from it, such as the year of oncology resulting in a cure for cancer being found. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 12:53, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

If those criminals are involved in/were involved in or head/are instrumental in major global criminal operations that impact millions of people around the world and dozens of different countries then, yes, in fact they absolutely are.

You already have 2 domestic quadrennial elections in the events list. How are they remotely more impactful or notable than the arrest of a mafia kingpin who has been one of the most wanted men in world crime for several decades? Or the arrest of a drug baron son of one of the most infamous drug barons in history influential in the operations of a cartel pumping drugs into dozens of countries around the world being arrested in a quasi smallscale war?

I don't mean to insult you here, but I think your sense of perspective is a bit off. 88.110.119.72 (talk) 14:28, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

The UN should designate 2023 'Year of Crimefighting' and 'Year of Taking Out the Trash'. That would probably offend the delicate sensibilities of bleeding hearts liberal editors like you, however. Crimeworshipper. 88.110.119.72 (talk) 14:31, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

National elections are usually included. They often result in a change of government. Those two organised crime figures will quickly be replaced. High-ranking organised criminals being arrested isn't rare & each of those two arrests were domestic. The 2023 Sinaloa unrest was arguably a battle, but nowhere near being a war. I've not indicated being liberal or biased, so cut out the insults. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 15:36, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Domestic governments are also generally replaced in every quadrennial election (much quicker than highranking organized crime kingpins can be). There is absolutely nothing noteworthy or unusual or interesting about the Beninese and Antigua elections of January 2023. In fact a large percentage of the people living in these countries didn't even vote in them and weren't even aware they were happening.

You very clearly have an issue with people including the arrest of high profile organized criminals in the events list. These events were absolutely noteworthy. Absolutely rare (one of them had been on the most wanted list for decades before his capture, the other is the son of one of the most infamous drug kingpins in history) and absolutely became international news.

I cannot think what possible reason you could have for 'not considering these events more important than the Beninese and Antiguan elections of 2023) other than your own subjective feelings about organized crime and criminals. 88.110.119.72 (talk) 17:02, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

I've created and improved many crime-related articles, so the implication that I want to minimise their coverage on WP is proven false. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 17:22, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

While I agree that the arrest of an internationally famous criminal should be included, why on earth you choose to insult an editor with a senseless political attack is beyond me. Sir Jack Hopkins (talk) 16:16, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Arrests are rarely included in main year articles, unless the arrestees are very important in a field other than crime, such as being a head of state/gov. Being arrested is an inherent risk for criminals. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 16:36, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

What are you basing this on, exactly? There are numerous high profile arrests of criminals listed as events in countless year articles on Misplaced Pages. Arrests of high profile criminals are generally highly noteworthy and tend to dominate international headlines, especially when they're involved in organized criminal rings that impact dozens of countries around the world. 88.110.119.72 (talk) 16:56, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

I just want to add. The arrest of El Chapo's son resulted in 10 soldiers, 19 cartel members and several civilians being killed in the ensuing disorder and chaos, 2 planes (1 passenger, 1 military) were also struck with gunfire.

In what Universe is that not noteworthy enough for a mention in the 2023 events list for January.

Are you being facetious here? 88.110.119.72 (talk) 17:05, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

They're important enough to be on year by country articles, but not main year. Where would you draw the line? How about arrests of (suspected) terrorists, illegal arms dealers, serial killers, serial rapists? How about celebrities arrested for less serious crimes? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 17:22, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Those all are already included in main year articles. To give an example off the top of my head, the arrest of Jeffrey Dahmer is included in the 1991 article. The arrests of many terrorists are included in main year articles.

Not year by country. 88.110.119.72 (talk) 17:24, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Just an observation. Has anyone considered semi-protecting this TALK to prevent unconfirmed accounts from wasting experienced editors time? This is a good example of where it would be helpful. At least take the time to confirm the account before coming here to be hostile. Nemov (talk) 17:08, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Should we ask an admin to semi-protect this talk page? Jim Michael 2 (talk) 17:22, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, are you accusing me of wasting time? Or the Jim Michael 2 guy? My suggestions for the article were genuine. I don't see why the El Chapo arrest and subsequent unrest isn't included in the events list. I also was curious why Year of the Millets was removed. 88.110.119.72 (talk) 17:22, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

He's not accusing me; I'm one of the regulars on main year articles.

Nothing relating to Dahmer should be on any main year article. Though internationally notorious through media coverage, he was a domestic US figure. Insufficiently notable things are added to main year articles every day. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 18:00, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

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