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Talk:Micronation

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Bruxton (talk | contribs) at 16:42, 20 February 2023 (Nominated for DYK, see Template:Did you know nominations/Micronation (DYK-wizard)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 16:42, 20 February 2023 by Bruxton (talk | contribs) (Nominated for DYK, see Template:Did you know nominations/Micronation (DYK-wizard))(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
Former featured article candidateMicronation is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Good articleMicronation has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
July 3, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted
February 16, 2023Good article nomineeListed
Current status: Former featured article candidate, current good article
WikiProject iconMicronations GA‑class Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Micronations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Micronations on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MicronationsWikipedia:WikiProject MicronationsTemplate:WikiProject MicronationsMicronations
GAThis article has been rated as GA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconPolitics GA‑class Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
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Confederate States of America

Is Confederate States of America a micronation or amicrostate? No country recognized it. But it did have things few micronations have, like a legislature, army, etc. deisenbe (talk) 19:26, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

The Confederacy would be an unrecognised state, that de facto controlled some areas of the southern united states.AxderWraith Crimson (talk) 17:08, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
Micronation is a 20th century concept, so I don't think the CSA can be considered as such. Also, while the CSA wasn't recognized as a sovereign state, it was recognized as a belligerent by the United Kingdom. pandakekok9 (talk) 09:10, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
It also wasn't a "micro" anything-- the Confederate States covered close to two million km and were home to nine million people. PepperBeast (talk) 14:20, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
The CSA was a (failed) secession. Literally dozens of similar examples throughout history. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 15:10, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Micronational Organisations section

I would like to make note of a few edits– and revertions as of late, with regards to the newly added micronational organisation section to the article.

Notability aside, the citations within the section are unreliable self-published sources (which I did mark as such). To the credit of User:IslandUnity, the references citing MicroWiki (Which falls under WP:UGC) were removed, but several unreliable sources remain.

The Self-published template I added however was removed– for what I believe to be an incorrect reason. Given that there have been 2 reverts from both parties as of recent, I have opted to bring this forth to the talk page in order to discuss.

Cited Links:

Ciao. Pax Brittanica (talk) 22:12, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Comment: Citing Microwiki isn't WP:UGC as the content/wiki was not made by said user but rather a group of people under the private owner, Jonathan Austen; similar to Misplaced Pages proper. On to the the sources like the GUM or the Grand Unified Micronational, it is very reliable and is the oldest organization in micronationalism respectively. It appears there is a ton of misinformation and lack of research on your part into the subject at hand.--Cookieman1.1.1 (talk) 23:45, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Comment: WP:UGC quite clearly specifies "most wikis, and other collaboratively created websites". MicroWiki quite clearly falls under this grouping. Pax Brittanica (talk) 00:25, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
Comment: NCWP isn't collaborative, nor user generated. Neither is the LIN's website, neither is the GUM's website. I've already explained this to you. IslandUnity (talk) 11:14, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
I was referring to the MicroWiki citation, in regards to WP:UGC. The NCWP/LIN/GUM citations themselves are problematic as they are WP:SPS. I cannot find any independent verifiable sources pertaining to these subjects, so either an alternative citation should be found, or this should be removed altogether. Pax Brittanica (talk) 16:55, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
Hello, Pax Brittanica is correct, as self-published sources are not reliable (such as the GUM and LIN website) and neither are user-generated sites (like wikis). Please do not revert the edit again or add the citations back as they are not reliable. I would advise finding third-party citations (as Brittanica mentioned) that are not closely associated with micronationalism to avoid topic bias. ––Anonymous 7481 (talk) 00:10, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
I agree, Microwiki is not an independent verifiable source. The only 3 micronational organisations mentioned in Russian, French and Italian newspapers and books are the AMU, the OMF and MicroCon. --Delle89 (talk) 15:43, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
The GUM is not under Misplaced Pages:SELFPUB as it is very reliable, and is one of the oldest micronational organizations there is. AWESOMEDUDE0614 (talk) 19:25, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
The site at grandunifiedmicronational-dot-org tries to install crapware when I access it, so... it's worse than not-reliable, it's a candidate for the Misplaced Pages blacklist. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 03:45, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
That is not the correct site, check https://grandunifiedmicronational.wordpress.com/. Also "crapware" really? AWESOMEDUDE0614 (talk) 17:45, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
That site is not an independent source, nor a reliable source, as it is edited by representatives of micronations. - Donald Albury 15:43, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Errant Republic of Menda Lerenda

Is a guardian article enough for inclusion? Here is one: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/18/spanish-driver-hash-cakes-claims-diplomatic-immunity-menda-lerenda - fyi: "menda lerenda" means something similar to "yours truly" in Spanish, see wiktionary.--91.64.240.136 (talk) 01:22, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Based on the the self-description on the organization's website (https://www.republicamendalerenda.net/copia-de-historia), it seems to be a collective Sovereign citizen movement rather than a micro-nation. Donald Albury 14:39, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
The article says, "A micronation expresses a formal and persistent if unrecognized claim of sovereignty over some physical territory," which this does not. While many micronations' purported citizens don't live there, they at least have a "there". -Jason A. Quest (talk) 14:58, 19 March 2022 (UTC)

Notable micronations

What are the requirements to add or remove a micronation from the section "Notable micronations", because almost all of them are connected or associated with fraud or financial scam projects? Meanwhile there are micronations like Ladonia (art), Molossia and Atlantium (hobby), Flandrensis (ecologic) and many other projects? The section "Micronations based on historical claims" is more based on facts. I propose to remove the section and just keep the reference to the page List of micronations. Delle89 (talk) 20:23, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

Passed. —*Fehufangą (✉ Talk · ✎ Contribs) 22:29, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Micronation/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Fehufanga (talk · contribs) 05:54, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Hello, I'll be reviewing the article. This is my first GA review.

Thank you! I hope you learn a thing or two :) ツLunaEatsTuna (💬)— 21:28, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
@LunaEatsTuna I have left some more comments. —*Fehufangą (✉ Talk · ✎ Contribs) 04:43, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
@LunaEatsTuna Looks good! I will pass this. —*Fehufangą (✉ Talk · ✎ Contribs) 09:01, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
Though I am a bit confused on where to categorize this under. I'd appreciate some help with that. —*Fehufangą (✉ Talk · ✎ Contribs) 09:10, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
Thanks, I really appreciate the review! I think Political parties and movements might suit it? ツLunaEatsTuna (💬)— 16:29, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
Alright, looks good. —*Fehufangą (✉ Talk · ✎ Contribs) 22:29, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
GA review
(see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar):
    b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):
    b (citations to reliable sources):
    c (OR):
    d (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):
    b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

Overall:
Pass/Fail:

· · ·


Prose

  • Micronation as a word has no basis in international law - "International law" is a duplicate link.
  • Removed.
  • and George Cruickshank of the Empire of Atlantium - In both instances, "Empire of Atlantium" is a duplicate link.
  • Removed both.
  • an independent constitutional republic called New Atlantis - "New Atlantis" is a duplicate link.
  • Removed.
  • In 1964, writer Leicester Hemingway - "Leicester Hemingway" is a duplicate link.
  • Removed.
  • based his sovereignty on the Guano Islands Act of 1856 - "Guano Islands Act of 1856" is a duplicate link
  • Removed.
  • engage in intermicronational diplomacy - Diplomacy is a replink
  • Removed.
  • The study of micronationalism is known as micropatriology or micropatrology. - This doesn't seem like it fits in the section "Legality".
  • You're right—removed.
  • Several intermicronational organisations also exist - No need to link "organisations".
  • Removed.
  • delayed due to the COVID-19 pandemic - "COVID-19 pandemic" is a duplicate link
  • Removed.
  • held at Dangar Island, Sydney - "Dangar Island" and "Sydney" are duplicate links.
  • Removed.
  • "with many country pages longer than those of real nations ," - Consider adding a ref for this quotation separately.
  • Good idea; done.
  • They claimed to be the princesses of the historical Sunda Empire - Change the Sunda Empire link (which is actually a link to the micronation), to Sunda Kingdom? I remember when this went viral here a few years ago.
  • Changed. I have heard about this from some Indonesian micronationalists who locally call it the 2020 Indonesian micronations shock.
  • and hosted by the Principality of Aigues-Mortes - "Principality of Aigues-Mortes" is a duplicate link.
  • Removed.
  • The documentary explored various micronations around the world, and included - The comma before "and" should be removed.
  • Removed.
  • off the coast of Scotland, and declared - The comma before "and" should be removed.
  • Removed.
  • various micronations around the world, and included - The comma before "and" should be removed.
  • Removed.
  • do not involve terra nullius, and are not subject - The comma before "and" should be removed.
  • Removed.
  • was founded in 2014, and is run - The comma before "and" should be removed.
  • Removed.
  • I noticed that the information about Hemingway's micronation in the section "Libertarian micronations and seasteading projects: 1964–1972" is repeated in the "Seasteading" section. The former section also has a hatnote that points to the latter.
  • I have revamped the whole section; hopefully it looks better now?

References

  • The reference L'État c'est moi: Histoire de... is not used anywhere.
  • Nice catch! Moved to further reading.
  • From a selection of references:
    • 24 and 25: In either sources, I cannot find 1966 as the date of new Atlantis' destruction
      • Added a source which states it was destroyed "within a few years" by a cyclone. No idea where I got 1966 from.
    • 28: checkY
    • 42: checkY
    • 47: checkY
    • 94: checkY
    • 111: checkY
    • 118: checkY
    • 131: This may be a better link, since it doesn't immediately open the print window.
      • Yep—added!
    • 157: Correct me if I am wrong, but this appears to be a self-published source?
      • Removed. Could not seem to find any RS sources mentioning the acronym.

Copyvio

  • Quotation to Collins is cited. There are some unavoidable similarities to book titles, but besides that, no concerns.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:37, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Misplaced Pages talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cielquiparle (talk) 15:17, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

( )

Improved to Good Article status by LunaEatsTuna (talk). Nominated by Bruxton (talk) at 16:42, 20 February 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Micronation; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

  • Recent GA, article long enough, hooks are good, though I would propose one more:
  • ALT2: ... that micronations have claimed territory in Antarctica, in international waters, and in space?
Otherwise, hooks all cited and no copyvio detected. QPQ done, so good to go. Juxlos (talk) 15:48, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
Thanks Juxlos that is a very interesting hook too! Bruxton (talk) 19:34, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Misplaced Pages talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cielquiparle (talk) 15:17, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

( )

Improved to Good Article status by LunaEatsTuna (talk). Nominated by Bruxton (talk) at 16:42, 20 February 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Micronation; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

  • Recent GA, article long enough, hooks are good, though I would propose one more:
  • ALT2: ... that micronations have claimed territory in Antarctica, in international waters, and in space?
Otherwise, hooks all cited and no copyvio detected. QPQ done, so good to go. Juxlos (talk) 15:48, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
Thanks Juxlos that is a very interesting hook too! Bruxton (talk) 19:34, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
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