Misplaced Pages

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep Ryan Postlethwaite 11:38, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Emma Groves

Emma Groves (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Very questionable notability. Her campaigning apparently started in 1971, and yet she only made the news (according to the cited references) upon her death in 2007? Misplaced Pages is not a memorial nor a news service. kingboyk 14:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

• Delete Yeah, this does just seem to be a page about a persons death. Felix 17:06, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
• Keep I have (distant) memories of the campaign ie it is the sort of thing I would have to look up in an encyclopedia. Aatomic1 20:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
• Comment If it was just an article about someone who had been killed by a plastic bullet during the Troubles then I'd definitely say it was a memorial. However like many people from many backgrounds and cultures, information generally becomes centrally available in obituaries when they die. I can't see the full article as I'm not a subscriber, but this uses "Iconic campaigner" and I'm not sure UTV would cover the death of some random person. UCAPB get some publicity - - and as she campaigned using an organisation it's not unreasonable that there wasn't that much coverage of her when she was alive. I'm on the fence anyway, so no !vote from me. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 20:08, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
• Delete, not even about her death. Just about her being hit with a plastic bullet. I was injured in a rugby match at school, do I deserve a WP article? nonsense. --Counter-revolutionary 20:09, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
• Keep per the arguments and references supplied by ONiH. These would certainly indicate notability. Bear in mind most of her and the UCAPB's campaigning would have been in the 70s and 80s, before newspapers started maintaining online archives (the Irish Times, the first Irish newspaper to really embrace the internet only had online archives going back to 1996 last time I checked). Bastun 23:13, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
• Delete: I don't believe she fulfills the criteria for being in Misplaced Pages in her own right. If she died then so would Joanna Mathers, Eilis Maguire, Joyce McCartan, and others bereaved or killed and there simply are far too many. However she could merit inclusion in plastic bullets or a Relatives for Justice page if one were created satisfying encyclopedia criteria. I just want to mention also that there is a discrepancy in the page as it now stands -one line states she was shot by a rubber bullet but goes on to state that she became an anti-plastic bullets campaigner. This seems to me to be a discrepancy.Sergeant Trotter 23:30, 10 May 2007 (UTC)— Sergeant Trotter (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Comment Again, this isn't an article about someone who died during the Troubles. It is an article about someone who was prominent during the period, and has since died and due to the obituaries there is sufficient source material for an article to be created. Also, there is no discrepancy, she was hit by a rubber bullet but campaigned against rubber and plastic bullets. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 23:33, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

If she was prominent back then, there would have been sufficient material available before she died, surely? --kingboyk 00:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

There probably is, just in offline newspaper archives as Bastun says. As I said, this is someone we could have had an article on before she died in some people's opinion, it's just that information became centrally available in obituaries when she died. As JzG says here, quite often more source material does become available in obituaries, it doesn't make any articles created due to that a memorial. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 00:29, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay. Maybe try and find somebody with access to a university library or other big library with a newspaper archive? --kingboyk 00:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

• Comment. I am interested in the argument she put forward. Plastic bullets seem to me somehow kinder than "Bloody Sunday" bullets. Maybe this is a merge? More interesting than a minor footballer. - Kittybrewster (talk) 02:10, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
• Keep since it now seems that it is sourceable, though not yet fully sourced. DGG 03:30, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. The article seems to have adequate references. --Eastmain 03:43, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Northern Ireland-related deletions. --   ⇒ bsnowball  12:49, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
• Keep: I will add additional referenced information.--Domer48 10:48, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
• Keep now that article is referenced, although cleanup is necessary. KrakatoaKatie 08:20, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.