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User talk:Paul Siebert/OldArchive/2010/June

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You have shown interest in Eastern Europe or the Balkans. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Misplaced Pages's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

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A barnstar for your efforts

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		Awarded for your great contributions in the discussions of various articles discussing genocides and mass killings. Awarded by Cdjp1 on 25 August 2021

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

Your feedback is requested at Talk:Vilna Soviet of Workers Deputies on a "History and geography" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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World War II and the history of Jews in Poland: Arbitration case opened

Hello Paul Siebert,

You were recently listed as a party to a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland/Evidence. Please add your evidence by April 04, 2023, which is when the first evidence phase closes. Submitted evidence will be summarized by Arbitrators and Clerks at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland/Evidence/Summary. Owing to the summary style, editors are encouraged to submit evidence in small chunks sooner rather than more complete evidence later.

Details about the summary page, the two phases of evidence, a timeline and other answers to frequently asked questions can be found at the case's FAQ page.

For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration.

For the Arbitration Committee,
~ ToBeFree (talk) 23:40, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 26

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited World War II, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Reichstag.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:05, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Allies of WWII

Hello Paul Siebert

You reverted my edit to this article with the explanation "by allies we do not mean those that signed a military alliance with UK." What then is the definition the article uses for an allied power? The first sentence states that the Allies "were an international military coalition" and a "military coalition is defined as " a group that temporarily agrees to work together in order to achieve a common goal." You can't have a military coalition without some form of formal agreement and the agreement that formally attached the Soviet Union to the other allied powers was the Anglo-Soviet agreement (given that the UK was the only major power formally at war with the Axis at that time). The Soviet Union didn't automatically "join" the allies the moment it was attacked by Germany, it joined them when a formal military agreement was signed with the leading allied power at the time. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 23:44, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Actually, that is tricky. If we are too focused on formal alliances, we face an obvious problem: there were no Allies after the fall of France till 22th of June, 1941, because the United Kingdom was fighting alone (I write "United Kingdom, not "Great Britain", which is important in this case). Furthermore, the coalition that was fighting with the Axis from September 1939 till June 1940 was the remnant of Entente cordiale, former Triple Entente (the WWI time formation). It ceased to exist after fall of France, and a new alliance formalized after 22th of June, 1941 and then extended after 7th of December, 1941.

Therefore, if we will be too formal, we should speak about different alliances during different periods of WWII.

Therefore, the most logical solution would be to focus on real military activity: who declared war on whom. If two states declared was on the same opponent, they should be considered de facto allies. The war between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany started in June 1941, which means it became the Ally in June. Paul Siebert (talk) 00:35, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

I see your point and agree that it's not straightforward, but this article and other articles on WWI and WWII focus on formal alliances and we should strive for consistency within articles. The Allies continued to exist as a formal grouping after the defeat of France in 1940. The first inter-allied war conference was in early June 1941 and included the UK, its Dominions, and the governments-in-exile of Poland and other nations. So there was a formal grouping of allies which the Soviet Union joined in July 1941. Remember also that China was at war with Japan for several years before it formally joined the allies in January 1942. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 01:22, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Scope of Evidence

Hi Paul. I wanted to note that I removed the section "Highly misleading edit summaries and wrong pretext for removal" as it is out of scope for the case. The scope of this case is Conduct of named parties in the topic areas of World War II history of Poland and the history of the Jews in Poland, broadly construed. Please let me know if you have any questions. Barkeep49 (talk) 16:20, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Barkeep49:.

I respectfully disagree. The scope on the case is Holocaust in Poland. If we consider the secret protocol of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact illegal (and the majority of scholars agree with that), the territory of modern Ukraine that belonged to Poland before WWII is considered as a part of Poland at least until 1945 (when an agreement about new borders in Europe was achieved). Taking into account that Ukrainian nationalists were active mostly in the territory that belonged to Poland before WWII, it would be correct to include the discussion of their activity into this case: we are discussing not "Jews and Poles", but "Jews in Poland", and such cities as Lwow or Stanislav should be considered as Polish cities until 1945.

Actually, many authors include the Holocaust victims in Western Ukraine and Western Belogussia into the Holocaust in Poland death (now Holocaust in the USSR), so it would be utterly incorrect to exclude them from the scope of the current case.

Paul Siebert (talk) 20:21, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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GizzyCatBella / Jacurek slant and collaboration with other editors

This first talk edit by Jacurek tell you all you need to know about this person. This antisemitic rant invokes a the well known Judeopolonia antisemitic canard.

After Jacurek got into hot water over his editing of Jewish topics, with his bias crystal clear, Piotrus came in with a welcome and a barnstar.

However, this is not all. From the WikiLeaks entry Wikipediametric mailinglist: alleged cabal tactics and stalking of editors, 2009, which spurned the WP:EEML case, one can see the message post titled 20090604-1924- New Polish cabal members_ Jacurek and Tymek.eml in this message we see Piotrus suggesting Jacurek as a possible member, and Volunteer Marek endorsing them for membership as well as stating they were in frequent e-mail contact with them.

Now to sockpuppet GizzyCatBella. This account edited Smolensk air disaster back in 2015 for a while. It then sat on a shelf for a couple of years.

GizzyCatBella was activated again in Feburary 2018. When? When Pioturs and Volunteer Marek were engaged in disputes on antisemitism in Poland.

The degree of support between GizzyCatBella and Piotrus as well as GizzyCatBella and Volunteer Marek is massive. This is not a coincidence. This includes jumping into articles and disputes on call.

Besides these being longtime collaborators for whom their old colleague is obvious, their past scheming in WP:EEML and in private e-mails is an established fact. The clearest explanation for the behaviour of Jacurek (GizzyCatBella) is that they were called in by Volunteer Marek and that the have been coordinating their activity over the past five years on Misplaced Pages. 176.60.0.232 (talk) 20:12, 21 April 2023 (UTC)