Misplaced Pages

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Merchant (Resident Evil)

I expanded its concept and design, hoping for you to copyedit. Thanks. GlatorNator (ᴛ) 13:25, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

@GlatorNator: Frankly, I removed most of it besides a small amount, that is not the place for fan theories or tangents about other characters who may be related. It will require searching for new potential sources on his development, probably interviews or artbooks. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:18, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

I see, I guess old characters are hard to find more sources/books. GlatorNator (ᴛ) 20:14, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

It's more that I never really tried to find such sources beyond what I could see in online searches, so there may be some background info on his development in an artbook or old interview somewhere. It will be very difficult to dredge up though. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 20:18, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Have you guys tried searching pdf files of an artbook from Resident Evil? I remember finding one online when checking Leon's RE6 design. They are all officially published by Udon Entertainment.Tintor2 (talk) 21:18, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

I wonder how you found them. Finding an artbook from old game like Re4 is hard. GlatorNator (ᴛ) 22:13, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

I remember the wiki mentioning some sort of document about the making of RE4 with a big talk about how they redesigned Leon after RE2.Tintor2 (talk) 22:21, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

I managed to find the RE4+ Artbook on Archive.org, though I can't link it because it's probably copyright infringement. Still, it does have a blurb on the Merchant but not really any new info on his creation besides it describing him as "obviously a Ganado". ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:11, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Update:I added more details on the tweet, den of geek source at the concept and design sec, while the gamer source at reception. GlatorNator (ᴛ) 23:13, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Regarding Draft:Harry Potter: Magic Awakened AfC Submission

Hi there Zxcvbnm - I saw your recent AfC comment on the Magic Awakened article and wanted to make a brief comment of my own. The article had 4 submissions to AFC over the past 2 years from different users attempting to make improvements to a potential article. While this may be annoying for the AfC reviewer, this doesn't seem particularly outlandish to me, doesn't indicate users utilizing the process in bad faith.

Most recently, Vestigium Leonis made notable overhauls to the article, increasing the number and quality of sources. While I agree with you and am not sure it's ready for the main space, you accused an editor of bludgeoning because they submitted an AfC after making substantial improvements to the draft. This seems unfair and against what the AfC process is for. Moreover, I'm concerned that this type of language and reaction may dissuade editors from attempting to improve the article further, not to mention attempting to submit to AfC again. Skipple ☎ 13:29, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Apologies, I had seen the article submitted numerous times and didn't mean to imply it was being done in bad faith. That probably was not the best word choice for the situation. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 14:21, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

About The New Order: Last Days of Europe

Hi I saw you were one of the guys who declined the article since it lacked sources, the topic about being a popular mod in a niche community has very few people from outside that community who write about it so sources are very scarce on the topic I don’t know what to do to make the article better. AvailableViking (talk) 21:42, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

ESRB re-rating of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Featured article review

I have nominated ESRB re-rating of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:08, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Halo Arbiter.png

Thanks for uploading File:Halo Arbiter.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 02:13, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

My AfC submission of Draft:Evercore Heroes

Hi, I updated Draft:Evercore Heroes according to your comments and general guidelines and resubmitted it. How does it look now?

Note: I did not create or submit the article originally, I just stumbled upon it. Merko (talk) 16:05, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

@Merko: I'd drop the sources from GGRecon or MMO Culture as they don't seem reliable. The article omits a far better source from GameSpot. This Rock Paper Shotgun source is also easily usable as preview impressions. It would also be nice if there were more than just a single sentence of opinions from each critical source (and the opinions are by far the most important part - a statement such as "Ali Jones of GamesRadar+ called the combat "a little sluggish", saying that the game was a "risky gamble" that did not aim for mass appeal" is an opinion, "GamesRadar+'s Ali Jones stated that the game has a focus on macromanagement" is restating a fact). ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:28, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Re: Combine

Nice job on fixing that up. Just wanted to say that personally, there's not enough of that right now.-- Kung Fu Man (talk) 04:34, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

@Kung Fu Man: Thank you, having worked on other Half Life related articles I had guessed there was something there, even if the article was full of really surface level coverage. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:41, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Recent edit reversion

In this edit here, I reverted some information that appears to be a violation of our copyright policy.

I provided a brief summary of the problem in the edit summary, which should be visible just below my name. You can also click on the "view history" tab in the article to see the recent history of the article. This should be an edit with my name, and a parenthetical comment explaining why your edit was reverted. If that information is not sufficient to explain the situation, please ask.

I do occasionally make mistakes. We get hundreds of reports of potential copyright violations every week, and sometimes there are false positives, for a variety of reasons. (Perhaps the material was moved from another Misplaced Pages article, or the material was properly licensed but the license information was not obvious, or the material is in the public domain but I didn't realize it was public domain, and there can be other situations generating a report to our Copy Patrol tool that turn out not to be actual copyright violations.) If you think my edit was mistaken, please politely let me know and I will investigate. S Philbrick(Talk) 12:54, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

@Sphilbrick: The text is not infringing that website, it is taken from the game under WP:FAIRUSE. "Brief quotations of copyrighted text may be used to illustrate a point, establish context, or attribute a point of view or idea. In all cases, an inline citation following the quote or the sentence where it is used is required." I may have accidentally not put a citation mentioning the game there, I wasn't sure if it was required. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 21:37, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I didn't consider those quotes remotely brief. The first was eighty-three words, and not properly referenced. I urge you to check with others active in the copyright space to see if they think the passage is a sufficiently short. S Philbrick(Talk) 01:36, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@Sphilbrick: This manner of sourcing is used in a standard way in many video game articles, like Chrono Trigger, a Featured Article (see refs 16-28 and 186). So if you are implying this is copyright infringement maybe it would be best to bring it to the attention of WP:VG as it could affect the good/featured status of numerous articles. I will say that is the very least I could add to fully reference the article to the game, it's impossible for it to be reduced, but maybe it could just state the particular place it was from minus the dialog? ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 03:13, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm still trying to wrap my head around your inclusion of quotes in footnotes. I can't recall ever seeing such treatment, and have it figured out what purpose it serves. Short quotes are often used in articles to emphasize that certain exact words were used by the speaker. Somewhat longer quotes are commonly used in the flow in article to make some point that is best made in the original words of the speaker. Compiling a list of quotes in footnotes doesn't seem to achieve either purpose. Reproduction of copyrighted material ought to be done extremely rarely and as limited as possible and I don't yet understand the purpose of collection of quotes in footnotes. It's my opinion this is violation of copyright. You provided an example of the featured article but I don't see such treatment. I do see a block quote longer than I would've liked but at least it's in the flow of the article arguably complying with one of the examples of accepting uses I listed above. Let me know if I missed something but I did not see the featured article supporting your use. S Philbrick(Talk) 11:27, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@Sphilbrick: I was just following what I assumed to be fair use based on usage in articles such as Zero (Drakengard) (a Good Article) and the aforementioned Chrono Trigger. I did not realize it was overly lengthy to be considered that. I assume the correct course of action here is simply to not cite anything at all for that section unless it can be cited to a secondary source? If not please advise about it. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 12:09, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

With the important caveat that it's not a formal policy or even part of the manual of style, I place a lot of weight on this essay: Misplaced Pages:Quotations. I fully understand that an essay does not carry the same weight as policies or guidelines, but it goes into some detail about the proper use of quoted material and in my opinion it seems consistent with the manual of style tersely summarized here: Misplaced Pages:Manual_of_Style#Quotations

As well as the guideline found here: Misplaced Pages:Do_not_include_the_full_text_of_lengthy_primary_sources

If I understand your post correctly you are in agreement that the material is subject to copyright, while you believe quoting it qualifies as fair use. Is that correct?

Determining whether material is subject to copyright tricky but it's largely a factual issue, and a high percentage of interactions I have with editors in such matters dwells on the lack of knowledge of some editors about the concept that we cannot simply use copyrighted material, and in other interactions with editors who might think that the absence of a copyright notice for the existence of a creative commons license makes the material acceptable for use. I don't think that's an issue in this case as I believe you agree with me on both points that the use of copyrighted material is subject to restrictions and the material in question is copyrighted.

That leaves us with the thornier issue of whether the usage qualifies as fair use. My experience is that brief usages of material enclosed in quotation marks, set off in block quotes or set off in callouts is acceptable, subject to the challenging question of how long qualifies as brief. I also recognize the value of using quoted material in a footnote or reference, if used to support a point in the main article, where use of the exact words is important. I'm sure you are aware of WP:OTHER, but I am in agreement that usage found in articles that have gone through the test to qualify as good or featured articles, while short of definitive is a strong sign that the usage is considered acceptable. However, while you identified and FA and a GA, I saw each of them using quoted material consistent with the essay and guidelines, and I didn't see any examples of a collection of quotes listed in footnotes.

To summarize, believe you agree the material in question is copyrighted but you think you are usage qualifies as fair use while I do not. I think it would be valuable to get another opinion. I will suggest user:DanCherek or user:L3X1, but perhaps there is an editor with experiencing copyright issues you'd suggest. S Philbrick(Talk) 15:44, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@Sphilbrick: Uh, it's not just a collection of quotes. It is fully cited to the parts of the article where the quotes are relevant, all within the Characteristics section. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 15:47, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I think the usage of the material in footnote quotes is fair use, but I'm not certain the article is best served by having so many footnotes. I lack familiarity with the game so I can't at this time point to any specific footnotes which I think should be retained or removed. L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 18:19, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I missed that. S Philbrick(Talk) 19:40, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

I am not yet persuaded but L3X1 thinks it's okay so feel free to revert my removal. S Philbrick(Talk) 19:43, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/Draft:Beyond_All_Reason_(video_game)

Hello, thank you for you recent review of my draft article on the open source game Beyond All Reason. This game is quickly growing in popularity and as a word of mouth advertised game we have growing pains. One of the major issue we have is the lack of Misplaced Pages article. For example recently major twitch streamers have started to play Beyond All Reason, and they will get 10k+ views on YouTube, however we are unable to correctly categorize in Youtube.

Since this game is an open source community project we have not had any major press coverage, however we are also getting like 1000s of players every day. I asked the actual devs and we peak at 1500. I'm not a paid person, I'm just a regular player who's been playing for the past 2.5 years. The game is extremely polished and will certainly be comparable to many AAA RTS games.

It's a great game and I hope you can check it out and make some editorial suggestions how to help the article warrant a Misplaced Pages entry. I understand it might be missing something like a proper PCGamer review. I have gone through and removed all unreliable sources in the article on my last edit, and I believe there are only solid sources used in the citations. Could you please review what's in there now and advise on any further steps. Du8hd4r4 (talk) 01:01, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Not wanting to pollute my main topic or sound like I am advertising a particular streamer https://www.twitch.tv/day9tv I heard will be streaming this game, and it will have perhaps one or two thousand viewers. Might be worth checking out if you are interesting in knowing more about the game. Du8hd4r4 (talk) 01:08, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

One further point I think points out how popular BAR is that is scored #20 in this RPS article where the community voted for their favorite strategy games of all time. https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/these-are-your-50-favourite-strategy-games-of-all-time

I cited this article in my draft, however I did not call out the #20 in particular, but that is very impressive. Du8hd4r4 (talk) 01:27, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@Du8hd4r4: Misplaced Pages's policy is that "if it's popular, journalists will write about it, giving it notability". We do not gauge popularity within Misplaced Pages itself. It doesn't really matter how popular or unpopular something is, as long as it gets the requisite sources to satisfy WP:GNG. In this case it has none - the RPS source is simply quoting users, so it fails WP:USERG.

Its possible a game may become popular in the future, but not be notable enough for an article right now. We don't make the calls, only follow journalists who do make the calls. So, if you are representing the game, you'll want to have things written about it in reliable secondary sources. Simply putting articles on Misplaced Pages because you want to advertise, is not allowed under policy. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:30, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

To sum it up more succinctly, if a game gets previews/reviews of a sufficient number, it's notable. There is not really any amount of popularity that can replace those sources, who are the ultimate judge of what is a notable game. If you are angry there is not an article for a game, yet it has nothing written about it in the press, you will want to go to the press and advertise to them - and if they still say "no thanks", it's probably not notable. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:34, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Sure, thanks for the pointers. I think we can try and advertise directly at PC Gaming journalistic sources and that may help them pick up coverage. Du8hd4r4 (talk) 15:04, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Re: Gameplay and notability

It's definitely not a case of me saying gameplay can't add notability, it's just that it needs to be something significant I guess is more what I mean? Like how Mewtwo changed R&B PvP, Overwatch's Brigitt and people trying to force her out of the game/harass her VA over her's, or how Dan Hibiki's augmented his parody appeal. Gameplay discussions that reach beyond the scope of the individual game itself, that sorta stuff. But even then the character should still be the primary focus.

Just elaborating my thoughts on that matter.-- Kung Fu Man (talk) 10:38, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Kung Fu Man: Well, what was written there was, "Discussions of gameplay at a professional level does not grant notability in and of itself". I am simply going by what was said, I understand if you made an error when writing it though. I think you mean the same thing I do where it cannot simply be WP:MILL discussions. It has to indicate they are important or notorious somehow. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:41, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

BLP violations

Do not defamatory personal attacks like Special:Diff/1159803545 again. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 04:23, 13 June 2023 (UTC)