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Centralized discussion
- AI-generated images depicting living people
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The Signpost: 1 August 2023
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Thoughts on propaganda?
Hello Jimbo. What are your thoughts about Misplaced Pages forcefully used as propaganda? Misplaced Pages relies on reliable sources, but oftentimes historically reliable sources have been muzzled and used to only publish narratives favorable to the official narrative. For example in Guatemala, during the armed conflict that lasted around 40 years, the government routinely killed journalists, activists, critics that dared to speak too much against its interests. As a result, reliable sources during many years did not publish freely what they wanted but were likely heavily censored by the government. Even currently, a newspaper was shut down by the government. Its owner Jose Ruben Zamora and his lawyer were jailed on a disproportional persecution. Best regards, Thinker78 (talk) 02:49, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
- I think it is important to use diverse sources, particularly those outside the reach of authoritarian goverments. In the case of a country like Guatemala this may be easier than in other places, since there are many other Spanish-language news sources outside Guatemala.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 10:46, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
Endowment
Mr. Wales, do you know the current value of the Wikimedia Endowment? If so, can you share it? Why is it so secretive about its value and holdings? Sandizer (talk) 23:25, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- Secretive, Sandizer? Not really. It took me less than one minute on Google to find this WMF document. Cullen328 (talk) 23:39, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- That's a year old, has a single digit of precision, and says nothing about holdings. What does it invest in? What has it invested in in the past? How often does it change investments? What are the criteria for how and how often to do so? These questions are important because as the next generation of AI billionaires attempt to launder their reputations through philanthropy, the Endowment is likely to benefit. Sandizer (talk) 23:44, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
- Per its Forms 990N (available by searching "87-3024488" on https://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/), it had "Gross receipts not greater than" $100,000 from 07/01/2021-06/30/2023, so I'm not sure where the $100 million number in the Foundation's annual report is coming from. — Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 00:12, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- I think that may be because the bulk of its funds were held for management by the Tides Foundation, presumably until a few weeks ago(?) Sandizer (talk) 02:38, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- I do not personally know the day to day valuation of the endowment - it fluctuates of course with market conditions. I think it highly unlikely, as a side note, that AI billionaires seeking to launder their reputations would start with the WMF Endowment fund, since the endowment clearly has no ability to impact that whatsoever. At the last board meeting, I advocated (with universal agreement from the rest of the board) that we should publish more information, more often, because the accustions of "secrecy" do give rise (unfairly) to strange ideas that are not true.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 08:30, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- While I was being somewhat facetious, I am still very curious as to why there's never been a published comprehensive financial and investments statement. I understand "an update on the Endowment's activities" is expected by the end of the year. But, for example, do you think the total donations to date should be published on https://wikimediaendowment.org? Do you think the operational and investment update mentioned on meta:Wikimedia Endowment/Meetings/July 20, 2023 should be published? Sandizer (talk) 08:40, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- I think the latest published financial information should be posted on https://wikimediaendowment.org/. I'm surprised that it isn't, if it isn't. I do think that the operational and investment update mentioned should be published - this was indeed the document we discussed at the board meeting as a good thing to share. Now that we have a separate 501(c)(3) rather than being a fund at Tides, I think that sort of thing will become routine. Such materials do take staff time to prepare, of course, and they need to be really carefully checked for accuracy by finance and legal folks I would imagine, and I suspect that's that "by the end of the year" was mentioned somewhere. (Not sure where you saw that, but it sounds to me like a desire not to overpromise on the timeline!)--Jimbo Wales (talk) 08:47, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- While I was being somewhat facetious, I am still very curious as to why there's never been a published comprehensive financial and investments statement. I understand "an update on the Endowment's activities" is expected by the end of the year. But, for example, do you think the total donations to date should be published on https://wikimediaendowment.org? Do you think the operational and investment update mentioned on meta:Wikimedia Endowment/Meetings/July 20, 2023 should be published? Sandizer (talk) 08:40, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- I do not personally know the day to day valuation of the endowment - it fluctuates of course with market conditions. I think it highly unlikely, as a side note, that AI billionaires seeking to launder their reputations would start with the WMF Endowment fund, since the endowment clearly has no ability to impact that whatsoever. At the last board meeting, I advocated (with universal agreement from the rest of the board) that we should publish more information, more often, because the accustions of "secrecy" do give rise (unfairly) to strange ideas that are not true.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 08:30, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- I think that may be because the bulk of its funds were held for management by the Tides Foundation, presumably until a few weeks ago(?) Sandizer (talk) 02:38, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
You say you advocated (with universal agreement from the rest of the board) that we should publish more information, more often
. I am surprised to see you say that. A couple of days ago I wrote a draft piece for the upcoming Signpost issue noting that you appeared to have decided to do the exact opposite at that meeting
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| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
(Signpost draft) Wikimedia Endowment board minutes becoming ever more minimalistA couple of weeks ago, the Wikimedia Foundation's Jayde Antonio posted the approved minutes for the January 19, 2023 Endowment Board Meeting on Meta. The minutes are remarkable for not divulging any new information at all – apart from noting the approval of the Endowment grants that had already been announced in a Diff post back in April. For example, the meeting agenda posted back in February 2023 contained the following item:
The Meeting Minutes now published cover this point as follows:
Contrast this to the minutes of the January 2022 Board Meeting. They were not exactly detailed either, but did at least contain a financial summary:
In fact, this summary marks the last time the Endowment Board Meeting Minutes contained a dollar figure for the Endowment's total value (cash plus investments). Requests for an updated figure remain unanswered. Unlike the Wikimedia Foundation, the Wikimedia Endowment has never to date published audited financial statements detailing its revenue and expenses. (End of draft piece). |
The Signpost would, I am sure, be happy to publish ...
- the financial info contained in the fundraising report Amy Parker presented to you in January,
- the info contained in the operational and investment update you received last month,
- precise figures for the Endowment's annual revenue and expenses over the past 7.5 years,
- a summary of all moneys the Wikimedia Foundation has paid to the Tides Foundation over the past 7.5 years,
- a list of the Wikimedia Endowment's highest-paid contractors, if any, besides the Tides Foundation, over the past 7.5 years,
- the value of the Endowment's cash and investment holdings as of July 2023,
... if you could be so kind as to provide this information here on this page. I would then update the draft article copied above accordingly. Regards, --Andreas JN466 09:35, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
- When you write "you appeared to have decided to do the exact opposite at that meeting", you are mistaken. At the meeting we discussed, to universal agreement, that we should publish more information and more often. I will check on each of the items that you mention - I'm on vacation at the moment and heading to Wikimania in Singapore tomorrow, so it will take a bit of time. I also don't know if the precise information you are asking for is what will be shared. I very much recommend that you not publish a story claiming that anything is becoming "more minimalist" since that's just not true. Be very careful and thoughtful with the timelines: at the summer endowment board meeting, the discussion about publishing more information and more often came about in no small part because the January minutes were something that I felt were not good enough in terms of being open and informative. (A financial report is forthccoming - I haven't seen it yet - but delayed because the relevant person creating it has taken a bit of family leave.) --Jimbo Wales (talk) 09:17, 11 August 2023 (UTC)