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Talk:Incest

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Mother-Son

New to Misplaced Pages editing but concerned about the following in the 5th paragraph of the between adults and children section: "Research by Leslie Margolin indicates that mother-son incest does not trigger some innate biological response, but that the effects are more directly related to the symbolic meanings attributed to this act by the participants."

For such a sensitive subject, a casual reading of this seems to suggest that mother-son incest isn't psychologically damaging to the victims like other forms of adult-child incest or indeed doesn't have a victim. Especially given where that sentence is placed, just after the sentence about impact. The body of scientific evidence in this area seems to be against this implication. Indeed Margolin article starts by saying "The idea that mother-son incest is the most damaging form of incestuous behaviour has been commonplace in psychiatric and sociological literature for the last thirty years." and indeed the majority of recent studies since Margolin's seem to fall in line with this as well. Margolin's study does not even clinically asses survivors as other do but merely draws on "case material". It seems to be an article that goes against the grain almost for the sake of it and is at odds with the literature. It should not be the only reference.

I suggest either citing an article contradicting the Margolin article to counterbalance eg: or

Or, as I personally think is more appropriate we can remove the citation and sentence completely and just talk less controversially about rarity and under-reporting citing possibly:, letting the "impact" section stand to refer to mother-son incest as well. However, the underreporting bit would better fit at the top of the first paragraph, after the section on Father-son incest, so the 5th paragraph we could just leave as one sentence.

Happy to edit the main page myself but didn't want to just wade in on what must be a heavily monitered article.

OeColonus (talk) 01:20, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

References

"Consanguinamory" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Consanguinamory and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 29#Consanguinamory until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. ★Trekker (talk) 20:12, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

The consanguinity chart is wrong

Person X's siblings, the parents of X, and the direct offspring of X all share on average 50% DNA with X, and thus they all have the same degree of consanguinity with X. The "Table of Consanguinity" displayed to illustrate the article has erred on this point, and thus many of the numbers in the chart are wrong. Compare with the CC-chart here, which is correct: .

This seems like a fundamental error, and I think that the chart should not be used without this issue being fixed. ––St.nerol (talk) 17:22, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

% of world that permits incest (dispute)

Looking over Legality of incest one sees that it’s legal in many large countries such as China, India, and Russia and in few cases it’s legal between teens as young as 12. What % of the world’s population lives in countries where incest (between close relatives such as siblings or parent-offspring) is legal? Someone on the internet calculated 50%. (Next 3 sentences added later) To check on this look at just India and China each with a population of 1.45 billion. That’s 2.9 billion people; not too far from half the world’s population (4 billion of the 8 billion total for the World). To find the figure just add up the populations of countries that allow incest per Misplaced Pages. This is certainly not almost zero which I marked as disputed. David S. Lawyer 19:41, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

I agree that saying "almost universally forbidden" might be a somewhat extreme way to put it, but before marking the claim as disputed I think it'd be better to provide references backing up your stance, and "someone on the internet" most definitely doesn't count as a reliable source. I also don't think academic consensus leans towards more lenient views on incest and, besides, the whole paragraph can be seen as ambiguous, as it mentions several contexts in which incest between close relatives might be seen in completely different ways. In the meantime, I'll revert the edit as another reference saw itself unintentionally modified. --NicoSkater97 (talk) 22:28, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

List of 38 countries that allow adult incest. From a petition to permit incest in New South Wales (Australia). May use this list to find % of world pop. where incest is legal. Australia. Argentina, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Belgium, Brazil, People's Republic of China, Estonia, France,(1810) Georgia, India, Israel, Italy ( if no scandal is caused) Ivory Coast, Japan, Kazakhstan, Kirghiz Republic, North Korea, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Montenegro, Netherlands ,New Jersey (US) Pakistan, Portugal, Rhode Island ((US), Russia, Serbia, Slovenia, Spain, Tajikistan, Thailand,Turkey,Turkmenistan Ukraine,Uzbekistan David S. Lawyer 08:03, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's condoned or occurs openly in more than vanishingly small numbers. There's more to social control than laws. In most/all of these places, if you start dating your sister openly, various bad things will usually happen. Like if your dad kicks you out of the family, or makes you join the army, or shoots you, these are punishments such that "not allowed" applies. Ditto if people spit at you or you get excommunicated or fired etc. We could say "Not allowed under pain of punishment and/or various other bad consequences", but that's just extra verbiage, cos if there're no bad consequences, it's allowed. Tag removed. Herostratus (talk) 04:44, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

New article proposal: Incest debate

Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not an online debate or advocacy forum

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Should consensual incest be legal? And what are the pros and cons of various types of incest? On the English language internet the “debate” is growing with majority of “posts” favoring incest. Most of these posts are simply porn videos purporting to show incest sex. There are no words arguing for incest sex, just moving pictures showing “relatives” having incest fun with sex. There are also discussions on Quora

In Russia, where incest is legal, there is a lot of incest porn along with many posts that are anti-incest including a proposal to criminalize it. In New Jersey they were not successful in recriminalizing it.

What do you think? Can you contribute to it? David S. Lawyer 00:42, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages isn't Debatepedia. tgeorgescu (talk) 01:40, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Real incest?

The article lists "Father–daughter and stepfather–stepdaughter sex is the most commonly reported form of adult–child incest" but stepfather–stepdaughter sex isn't considered real incest and only pseudo-incest in some cultures or under some religious codes. Biofase | stalk 22:39, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Maybe stepfather–stepdaughter sex isn't real incest, but it's very bad mojo. I'm in the USA, and here it would be almost universally condemned and considered incest and labeled incest. You can't control how people use words. I can't speak for other countries. Herostratus (talk) 19:18, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

The Marriage of an Uncle and a Niece

I read in the Reader's Digest guide to Canadian Law of a case where a court upheld a Marriage between an Uncle and a niece because one of them (probably the niece) was an adoptee.Tnarrud3 (talk) 12:49, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

Distant cousins

I have a 6th degree relative (second cousin). We share 2.6% of DNA. I could legally marry her in several EU countries. So, I don't understand the fuss about distant cousins: that isn't incest according to the laws of several EU countries. Why should we care if European nobles married their distant cousins centuries ago? The point: DNA similarity dilutes very quickly with each passing generation. Example: Romanian law prohibits incest, but marrying your second cousin isn't incest. Genetic similarity of relatives of the 9th degree (and higher) is negligible to all practical purposes. And that's what "distant cousins" means. tgeorgescu (talk) 04:50, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Are you referring to the start of the "From the Middle Ages onward" section? I did rewrite that to clarify. I assume that the deal is that if you're occasionally marrying first cousins, but when it's not a first cousin it's probably a second or third cousin or something like that, almost always, for generation after generation, you're going to get problems (e.g. Hapsburg Jaw).. The passage doesn't say that. It does imply it. I don't think anyone knows for sure how much this contributed to Hapsburg Jaw etc. Herostratus (talk) 05:02, 12 September 2023 (UTC)