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User talk:Jimbo Wales

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Jimbo Wales (talk | contribs) at 22:44, 27 October 2023 (→Elon Musk). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Revision as of 22:44, 27 October 2023 by Jimbo Wales (talk | contribs) (→Elon Musk)(diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)

    Welcome to my talk page. Please sign and date your entries by inserting ~~~~ at the end.
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    Jimbo welcomes your comments and updates – he has an open door policy.
    He holds the founder's seat on the Wikimedia Foundation's Board of Trustees.
    The current trustees occupying "community-selected" seats are Rosiestep, Laurentius, Victoria and Pundit.
    The Wikimedia Foundation's Lead Manager of Trust and Safety is Jan Eissfeldt.
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    This is Jimbo Wales's talk page, where you can send them messages and comments.
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    Happy October, Jimbo! :)

    Babysharkboss2 has given you a Hershey Bar! Hershey bars promote WikiLove through chocolately goodness and hopefully this one has made your day better. Hershey bars are wonderfully delicious! Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a Hershey bar, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.


    Spread the goodness of Hershey bars by adding {{subst:Hershey Bar}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message!

    Babysharkboss2 was here!! 15:51, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

    Hell broke loose today

    Elon musk is calling Misplaced Pages woke u replied Then they start talking about your connection with newsguard is this true I'm still kinda confused about the woke claim when most of us work to be neutral If you would like to clarify your position in newguard I would like to know Elon musk also is a asshat •Cyberwolf• 01:40, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

    Useful reading: Punctuation. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:06, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
    huh. hell broke loose today? i thought it did that every day. ltbdl (talk) 02:24, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
    NewsGuard? Not exactly hell. Johnuniq (talk) 02:56, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
    Yeah, Elon going on a rant isn't really my definition of "hell". It's more my definition of any random day. I am an advisor to Newsguard, yes. I don't think that's in any way problematic. People who may think that I'm somehow in favor of censorship are... just making things up I'm afraid. What I am in favor of is products and services that are well designed to help people evaluate and access high quality information. At least some of the trolls who hate such things hate them because of reasons that should be obvious: Newsguard would tend to rate various crackpot propaganda sites rather less highly than trusted news organizations with standards of fact checking, running corrections, etc. Their nine critera strike me sa being fairly straightforward.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 06:05, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

    Elon Musk has just posted the following: "Have you ever wondered why the Wikimedia Foundation wants so much money?

    It certainly isn’t needed to operate Misplaced Pages. You can literally fit a copy of the entire text on your phone!

    So, what’s the money for? Inquiring minds want to know …" Count Iblis (talk) 09:07, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

    As usual, Elon Musk is just trolling, much like a 12 year old schoolyard bully. A while back, he was trying to get his minions to call him a "business magnet" on Misplaced Pages. He hates that we accurately and neutrally summarize what reliable sources have said about him over the years. Very wealthy people are used to being surrounded by people who sing their praises, morning, noon and night. However, we cannot be bought. Cullen328 (talk) 09:57, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
    Jimbo, I was not familiar with NewsGuard until today, but I agree with you that their nine criteria are very good, and quite similar to how we evaluate the reliability of sources here on Misplaced Pages. Cullen328 (talk) 10:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

    The Signpost: 23 October 2023

    * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:01, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

    Can Misplaced Pages be edited fully autonomously by ChatGPT?

    It seems to me that ChatGPT should be able edit to Misplaced Pages without much problems. In fact, it may b able to do this better than human editors, so a fully autonomous Misplaced Pages may end up being superior compared to the present one. We may also consider AI-powered bots in roles of Admins and Arbitrators in the present Misplaced Pages edited by both humans and ChatGPT systems. Unlike humans, AI-powered bots have an infinite amount of patience, so remedies for problem users can involve measures such as the user being restricted to user space and be allowed to contribute from there. The bot will then be checking and assessing the quality of what is submitted there, giving feedback and copying to article apace what is good enough. Count Iblis (talk) 09:18, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

    Speaking of the really existing ChatGPT: it is pretty stupid and full of bogus statements, e.g. when writing a legal plea, it invented precedents which never existed. Wanna be sure? Ask it for its references, it cannot provide them.
    In fact, it is pretty hard for humans to be epistemically responsible, it is much harder for computers. tgeorgescu (talk) 09:36, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
    Noam Chomsky described ChatGPT as "basically high tech plagiarism". The poems are fun though.--♦IanMacM♦ 09:37, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
    Who knows what the future will hold? But in late 2023, when people use ChatGPT and other AI programs to try to write Misplaced Pages articles, the result is a lot like something written by a failing college freshman struggling to write an acceptable essay: Stilted, banal prose, heavy on platitudes, and riddled with factual errors and fabricated footnotes. Cullen328 (talk) 09:48, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
    I think you greatly overestimate the abilities of ChatGPT. Large language models write fluent-sounding but factually incorrect information. They absolutely are not and should not be a substitute for humans. More info at WP:LLM. –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:36, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
    Lucky I'm not an admin, I'd indefban chat, or AI of any kind (except our friendly Misplaced Pages-centric bots), and put their wanted posters on every post office wall. What a horrible invention and concept for editing Misplaced Pages, which goes against the criteria of "anyone" (not 'anything') can edit. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:49, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
    I feel the same way. The combination of fluent-sounding text and factual inaccuracies is quite a pernicious combination, in my opinion. ChatGPT-based editing has the potential to require as much cleanup as a WP:CCI. It's very labor-intensive for experienced editors, unless we resort to presumptive deletion. –Novem Linguae (talk) 21:11, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
    ChatGPT routinely generates garbage. Plausible garbage, but garbage non the less. The bullshit-bot promoters acknowledge this, but try to spin it as 'hallucination': which is also bullshit. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:45, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
    LLMs are pretty good (meaning, better than our typical sub-GA article prose) at summarization and sufficiently loose paraphrasing, but they are terrible at noteworthiness and notability judgments, figuring out where to correctly make changes for updates, and refactoring poorly organized articles. There are already competition leaderboards set up for such tasks, but they're being done apart from the live Misplaced Pages because of WP:NOTLAB. And you know there are less formal academic experiments going on all the time, which show up on WP:ANI as disruption when they're unsuccessful, but can't be easily detected when they work well. Sandizer (talk) 00:51, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
    What an absurd suggestion. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 22:51, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
    Here is what ChatGPT had to say about all of this:

    In the world of knowledge and information, Misplaced Pages stands tall, a beacon of innovation. A place where anyone can share what they know, And contribute to a global fountain of growth.

    But as we know, with great power comes great responsibility, And editing Misplaced Pages requires some ability. It's not just about typing what you think you know, But verifying sources and facts, so the information can flow.

    So when it comes to chatbots editing this great source, We must consider if they have the necessary force. Can they comprehend the nuances of language and context, And ensure what they add is accurate and correct?

    Thank you William McGonagall.--♦IanMacM♦ 10:15, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

    Elon Musk

    I'd !vote a firm no to Musk's offeriing a billion dollars to change Misplaced Pages's name to Dickipedia (lol, the fellow does have a good sense of humor and a way of getting his point across. Put me in a room with him and I'd say we'd get the billion plus another half-a-million just on the playful concept and discussion). I repeat my request to him on a recent The Signpost discussion that he pick one politically biased fact that he thinks should change, and then sign up on Misplaced Pages under his confirmed real name and change it. When or if his edit is then reverted, he should take it to the talk page and argue convincingly on behalf of his change (Jimbo, since he's in a public discussion with you, maybe consider passing along this suggestion as it would be both a fun debate and a possible improvement to a major article). I'll give him a billion mini-barnstars (equals one barnstar) if he does that. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:12, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

    ?? Babysharkboss2 was here!! 14:36, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
    See https://twitter.com/EdKrassen/status/1716103049863663962 and The Hill. "All else being equal" - e.g. it's guaranteed, and we can change the name back after a year - I'm leaning to taking the offer. Of course Elon is just blowing x out of his wazoo, but it's fun to think about.
    Smallbones(smalltalk) 20:05, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
    He has the humour of a 12 year old IMO lol. — MATRIX! (a good person!) 14:49, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
    Richard F. Lyon, the inventor of the optical mouse and long-time Wikipedian who Elon Musk wishes to honor, poses with Brian Boru's harp in the Long Room of the Trinity College, Dublin, library
    Wanting to name the encyclopedia in honor of Dicklyon for a year seems a principled suggestion for a commemorative. Dick, one of our major editors, is the inventor of the optical mouse, and Musk's offer to pay the Foundation a billion dollars to so-honor this major inventor of the computer-age has a ring of caring for Wikipedians that is missing in most billionaires. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:39, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
    Yep in that context i support •Cyberwolf• 17:40, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
    I can't think of a better or more deserving member of our community to Honor in such a way. Great suggestion, Mr. Troll, err, I mean Musk. We can do a lot with that billion dollars. Get that pen warmed up to sign the check --ARoseWolf 17:59, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
    Can't argue with that xD — MATRIX! (a good person!) 16:43, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
    In that context I would Support it. Especially if WMF uses the money to build a skyscraper world HQ and/or hire full-time researchers to work on the various projects. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 18:59, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

    WMF already has more money than it needs and spends too much of it elsewhere and not enough on Misplaced Pages. Instead Elon should start a trust as a backstop for the En Misplaced Pages / the Wikipedias.North8000 (talk) 18:25, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

    Eh more money after he asked why wikimedia needs money and said they dont needit •Cyberwolf• 19:38, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

    Also, as back of the envelope estimate, the main value of Misplaced Pages is the approx $50 Billion in unpaid volunteer time that has gone into it. You don't get renaming rights on that by giving $1 Billion to somebody else (WMF). North8000 (talk) 20:52, 24 October 2023 (UTC)f

    In the unlikely case that anyone is worried about it, no one on the board has seriously suggested at all that we should take him up on this. I mean, it's... fodder for laughter but really, his opinions and desires have very little weight here - and rightly so.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 22:44, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

    A barnstar for you!

    The Admin's Barnstar
    hi AidenJamesYt (talk) 17:49, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

    Quick question on the recently released Endowment figures

    The recently released Endowment figures (pictured) show a contributions total of $11,549,007 under "Support and revenue" for the 2021–2022 financial year.

    But the 3rd quarter 2021–2022 tuning session deck released on 2 May 2022 showed that the Foundation had already raised

    • $12 million for the Endowment by the end of the second quarter (31 December 2021) of that year, and
    • $13.4 million for the Endowment by the end of the third quarter (31 March 2022) of that year.

    This means the end-of-year figure advised in this month's statement for 2021–2022 is about $2 million lower than the third-quarter figure advised in the tuning deck last year. (The fourth-quarter tuning decks for 2021–2022 were never made public.)

    This is counterintuitive. Could you and User:Lgruwell-WMF please shed some light on what happened here? The two previous years' tuning session decks match what is in the released statement (once you add the $5 million grants the Endowment received in those two years from the WMF.) Regards, --Andreas JN466 18:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

    UBX image

    So, I've had three images removed from Userboxes' I've made. (a Montero one, a King Nothing one, and a King Crimson one). And all three images have had their images removed, due to copyright. Now, I reverted the King Nothing one, since I didn't know about the files only allowed in articles, but the bot re-reverted it, and I read about it and left it alone. but TODAY I made the King Crimson and Montero one. and the difference between these two and the first is that I KNEW SPECIFICALY What images I can and can't use. I checked and used the images on the infoboxes for the respective article. (I will use THIS MONTERO UBX as an example). AND the infobox image SAID "Fair use" on it. So if their both fair use images, then why does the images keep getting removed on the ground of copyright? IDK if ur gonna respond, since I don't know what responsibilities the owner of a website like Misplaced Pages has, but I just want an answer. Sorry if this is worded poorly, or if you can't help. Babysharkboss2 was here!! 17:26, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

    The fair use tag only apply to one page •Cyberwolf• 17:36, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
    Fair use images can only be used in articles. You'll want to pick a freely licensed image instead. WP:TEAHOUSE Is a good page for questions like this. –Novem Linguae (talk) 19:19, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
    I am not really sure this is a question Jimbo needs to answer. Perhaps the help desk would be a more effective place to ask about WP:NFCC? jp×g 10:00, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

    A kitten for you!

    Very dear Jimbo,

    Thank you for advancing humanity by creating the single greatest website. Here's a kitten.

    Procrastineur49 (talk) 17:31, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

    An entertaining TED talk

    When reaching out to another editor I stumbled who onto TED talk "The Joy of Learning Random Things on Misplaced Pages". It's very entertaining. S Philbrick(Talk) 13:20, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

    I've been familiar with Annie's work for a long time, as have many Wikipedians. I highly recommend the video. Smallbones(smalltalk) 17:10, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
    Category: