Talk:Blu-ray - Misplaced Pages

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

The contents of the BD-Live page were merged into Blu-ray. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.

The contents of the Mini Blu-ray Disc page were merged into Blu-ray. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.

Dolby Digital Plus maximum bitrate

In accordance to other sources (]) the maximum bitrate for the audio "Dolby Digital Plus" should be 1.7Mbit/s instead of 4.736 Mbit/s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.221.163.18 (talk) 23:45, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

Storage medium vs Storage format

This article talks about a storage format, but it also talks about an actual disc. One thing is the physical medium where the information is stored and another how the information is stored in said medium. This article is unclear about what is what.
It says thing like "The information density of the DVD format...", but information density is a property of a physical medium, not of a storage format.
It also says "It was designed to supersede the DVD format, in that it is capable of storing high-definition video resolution (1080p)", which implies that it's not possible to store HD video in a DVD. That is, of course, not true. You can store video of any definition either on a CD, DVD or BRD. Another thing, completely, is the standards for video players which use those disc in a certain way. Again, two different things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hrgwea (talk • contribs) 18:59, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

I concur, there is ambiguity between the disc and the AV standard. "Obviously" video claims refer to the AV standard, but users should not have to guess.

I think they should be split, as both are fairly long. --Musaran (talk) 17:59, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

UltraHD BluRay: 4:4:4 chroma sub-sampling

It appears there's an edit war between people who think it will support 4:4:4 sub-sampling and others who think it will remain 4:2:0. Does anyone have direct access to the specs? Because a leak earlier this year suggested it will be limited to 4:2:0. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.181.37.97 (talk) 15:59, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Separate article for Ultra HD Blu-ray?

Ultra HD Blu-ray is now covered as a section of the Blu-ray Disc article. Arguably, it is a separate standard with different disc structure (triple layer disc), different density, different video formats and encoding supported, etc., even though it shares some physical characteristics with Blu-ray Disc such as wavelength and numerical aperture (unlike DVD and CD). So the question it whether a separate section might be justified. The Seventh Taylor (talk) 20:19, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Now that the format is out, I must concur. It is a new format, incompatible with the old (Just try playing an Ultra HD disc in a regular Blu-ray player.), and it seems odd for it to only be listed as a section in this article given all the separate articles for other formats and in this instance would be like making HD-DVD a section of DVD. The only similar precedent that comes to mind is the way MUSE LD is a section of the Laserdisc article, but that was understandable given MUSE's obscurity.

Thus far wikipedia in general is extremely scant on Ultra HD Blu-ray mentions, with it usually not included in article home media sections, and only a handful of links to the section/redirect from articles. (Even UMD appears to have more!) What will justify more mentions, links, and in time hopefully a separate article? Will there have to be a couple hundred discs on the market to before any of this can happen? At the rate the releases are happening and being announced, this will be the case within a year or so. I’m not going to put it up right now, but I think the section should be flagged for an article split. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.194.104.141 (talk) 23:24, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

I've performed the split. —ajf (talk) 18:03, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Currently the resolution chart still has UHD resolutions. This should be moved to the UHD article, since it's confusing to have UHD material suddenly inserted into what seems to be a pure BD article. I believe it's incomplete for UHD BD too, since if that supports 4k at 60p it should support 2k at 60p. (I don't feel like looking it up to check, though.) 2601:18B:8200:1040:8DF:EEF1:8AB5:5849 (talk) 16:26, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Yes, the current Blu-Ray article seems to be a bit conflicted, sometimes saying that Blu-Ray itself supports 4K UHD, aka 2160p (it doesn't) and 10-bit color depth (it doesn't), and other times pointing out that UHD Blu-Ray is a separate standard that supports these things (it is, and it does). Conflating the two makes it pretty confusing, as it suggests regular Blu-Ray can do these things, which would render UHD Blu-Ray unnecessary. It should be clearer that they're two separate formats. ZoeB (talk) 10:49, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Suggest to merge sections 'Variants' and 'Variations'

Section Variants lists:

Mini Blu-ray Disc
Blu-ray Disc recordable
BD9 and BD5
BDXL
IH-BD

while sections Variations lists:

High Fidelity Pure Audio (BD-A)
AVCHD
AVCREC
Blu-ray 3D
Ultra HD Blu-ray

I could see a distinction where the former are variations of the physical format while the latter are variations on data level but then Ultra HD Blu-ray is at least in the wrong section, as it's physical characteristics differ. It may be better to simply merge these two sections. Thoughts? The Seventh Taylor (talk) 17:48, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Colour sub-sampling for 4K

Two sub-sampling rates have bee edited in (4:4:4 and 4:2:0), both using unacceptable blogs to support them as references. I have also seen 4:2:2 quoted as the sub-sampling but using an equally dubious blog. Unless a truly authoritative source can be found to nail the sub-sampling rate down, any speculative guesses have no place in the article and I have removed the given rate accordingly. 85.255.234.45 (talk) 12:57, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

This is interesting... 4:4:4 was reported, among others, by Trusted Reviews (the source I put back) and Techradar, which certainly are not blogs, and should be reliable sources. However, out of curiosity, I went and read the actual specification from BDA. It doesn't mention subsampling at all, so I figured it must be a feature of HEVC rather than Blu-ray itself. So off I went to the HEVC specs, and sure enough it supports 4:2:0, 4:2:2, and 4:4:4. But, I then went back to the UHD Blu-ray spec and found the following unassuming line:

chroma_format_idc shall be set to “1”.

What that means is, as it stands, UHD Blu-rays will only support 4:2:0 streams, exactly the same as regular Blu-rays. There is of course a slight caveat to that, which is there's nothing to stop a player taking a 2160p 4:2:0 stream and sending it to a display as 1080p 4:4:4 (all the necessary data is there), but it would be quite a stretch to call that 'supporting 4:4:4'. So to conclude, I think it's best the section stays as it is, not mentioning subsampling at all. Uk55 (talk) 02:05, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Now that is remarkably interesting and better researched than my (admittedly) quick effort. I have seen manufacturer claims before that claim their product supports some standard when it only does so by conversion. In one case a Blu-Ray player supporting 1080/50p and 1080/60p when in fact it would not play such discs but it did upscale 25i and 30i discs to 50p and 60p respectively - a similar situation to the example you gave. 85.255.234.45 (talk) 09:25, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

"There is of course a slight caveat to that, which is there's nothing to stop a player taking a 2160p 4:2:0 stream and sending it to a display as 1080p 4:4:4 (all the necessary data is there), but it would be quite a stretch to call that 'supporting 4:4:4'." That would indeed be a stretch. Until recently, HDMI didn't even support chroma sub-sampling, i.e. every DVD and BluRay player upsampled to 4:4:4. Personally, with all the information gathered (and the good source from the BluRay Disc Association) I think it is save to put "4:2:0" back into the article. Most people expected this anyways, because UHD BluRay is also limited to 10 bit and not 12 bit. HEVC v1 is limited to 10 bit and 4:2:0, so this is probably no coincidence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.48.51.147 (talk • contribs)

I disagree. Why add something that hasn't changed to a list of improvements? Uk55 (talk) 19:11, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

The paragraph is not titled "improvements". I would add it because the misconception about 4k BluRay having sub-sampling 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 seems to exist, in part because Misplaced Pages helped spreading wrong information.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.182.161.191 (talk • contribs)

If you look at the original context, it's clearly outlining ways UHD Blu-ray differs from regular Blu-ray. I do take your point, but if we start listing details that are the same we're going to end up rewriting half the article. I think it's best just to leave it until UHD Blu-ray gets its own article. (Side note: please sign your comments) Uk55 (talk) 17:13, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Typo in the supported video chart 23.97?

Should the frame rates be 29.97 instead of 23.97? 29.97 is 1/2 of 59.94.

I have never heard of 23.97 being used as a frame rate.

Mark

No, 23.976 is correct. It is basically the NTSC version of 24 Hz (24000 / 1001 ~= 23.976, 60000 / 1001 ~= 59,940). If you buy a BluRay in the US with a Hollywood type cinema/blockbuster movie it will have this frame rate 99% of the time. (59.94 Hz is the field rate of 29.97 Hz interlaced. BluRay was not designed for progressive 29.97 fps.)

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Removed Wii U mentions

According to Nintendo optical discs#Wii U Optical Disc, while it's unclear if Wii U discs are based on Blu-ray technology, they are not actually Blu-rays. I've removed the mentions of Blu-ray being used for Wii U games. Zeldafanjtl (talk) 08:21, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Controversial topic

Why is Blu-Ray in the 'Controversial topics' category - I don't think the battle between Blu Ray and DVD can quite be compared to that between George W Bush and Saddam Hussein, nor Adolf Hitler and Winston Churchill. Should this perhaps be removed. --92.25.88.162 (talk) 19:00, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

It was because HD DVD fanboys kept inserting bullshit criticisms of Blu ray non stop back when the format war was going on, almost 15 years ago. I'll remove it. MightyArms (talk) 00:55, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

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Change interlaced entries in Supported Video Formats table to show frame rate instead of field rate and remove respective note

Any objections?

{| class="wikitable" |+ Supported video formats |- ! Format !! style="width: 200px;" | Resolution and frame rate !! style="width: 100px;" | Display aspect ratio |- | rowspan="6" | 4K UHD | 3840×2160 60p || 16:9 |- | 3840×2160 59.94p || 16:9 |- | 3840×2160 50p || 16:9 |- | 3840×2160 25p || 16:9 |- | 3840×2160 24p || 16:9 |- | 3840×2160 23.976p || 16:9 |- | rowspan="4" | HD | 1920×1080 60p || 16:9 |- | 1920×1080 59.94p || 16:9 |- | 1920×1080 50p || 16:9 |- | 1920×1080 25p || 16:9 |- | rowspan="12" | HD | 1920×1080 29.97i || 16:9 |- | 1920×1080 25i || 16:9 |- | 1920×1080 24p || 16:9 |- | 1920×1080 23.976p || 16:9 |- | 1440×1080 29.97i || 16:9 |- | 1440×1080 25i || 16:9 |- | 1440×1080 24p || 16:9 |- | 1440×1080 23.976p || 16:9 |- | 1280×720 59.94p || 16:9 |- | 1280×720 50p || 16:9 |- | 1280×720 24p || 16:9 |- | 1280×720 23.976p || 16:9 |- | rowspan="2" | SD | 720×480 29.97i || 4:3 or 16:9 |- | 720×576 25i || 4:3 or 16:9 |}

a Only supported on UltraHD Blu-ray with HEVC video compression standard. b MPEG-2 at 1440×1080 was previously not included in a draft version of the specification from March 2005. c These resolutions are stored anamorphically, i.e. they are stretched to the display aspect ratio by the player or display. Paianni (talk) 18:51, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

References

"White Paper: Blu-ray Disc Read-Only Format: 2.B Audio Visual Application Format Specifications for BD-ROM Version 2.5" (PDF). Blu-ray Disc Association. July 2011. Archived (PDF) from the original on October 28, 2015. Retrieved July 29, 2015.
"White Paper: Blu-ray Disc Read-Only Format (Ultra HD Blu-ray): Audio Visual Application Format Specifications for BD-ROM Version 3.0" (PDF). Blu-ray Disc Association. July 2015. Archived (PDF) from the original on June 5, 2016. Retrieved October 7, 2016.
"White Paper: Blu-ray Disc Format: 2.B Audio Visual Application Format Specifications for BD-ROM" (PDF). Blu-ray Disc Association. May 2005. Archived (PDF) from the original on December 21, 2008. Retrieved November 30, 2008.

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Reverted change to "See also"

I've reverted this edit set by PhonoGraphLazer (talk · contribs) as I don't see why two other VHS formats (W-VHS and D-VHS) were removed and two other non-HD formats- UMD and VideoNow were added.

VideoNow in particular is a short-lived (and borderline novelty) format used for a kids' media player of the early-to-mid 2000s, and I've no idea why that belongs when (e.g.) D-VHS doesn't.

Ubcule (talk) 17:33, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

If you are going on about “HD” this should go under High-definition video, I placed UMD and VideoNow because they’re discs of the same timeline, what’s VHS going to do with the subject? PhonoGraphLazer (talk) 08:50, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

clarification of the common misuse of "PAL".

clarification of the term "PAL"

The number of lines and fields/frames, AND the colour encoding system for analogue signals, were set down by the national television standards committee - NTSC for short. (The "nation" involved is I believe the USA, but the term is more widely applied.) It is thus appropriate to refer to BOTH the resolution and the colour system as "NTSC".

PAL, however, stands for "phase - alternate line", and refers only to a colour encoding system; "phase, alternate line" does not mean anything when applied to a resolution. The resolution 576i is often incorrectly referred to as "PAL", but we should not promulgate such in an encyclopaedia.

you can have 480i PAL (as indeed Brazil did): NTSC resolution with PAL colour encoding; you can have 576i with NTSC colour encoding, though no-one did beyond the experimental stage (France and some other countries had 576i with SECAM colour, as opposed to PAL which was commoner).

To quote from https://en.wikipedia.org/PAL, "CCIR 625/50 and EIA 525/60 are the proper names for these (line count and field rate) standards; PAL and NTSC on the other hand are methods of encoding colour information in the signal." However, these terms are rarely used. It is valid to refer to 525/60 - or 480i - as "NTSC" since that body defined it; however, it is not valid to refer to 625/50 (576i) as "PAL". G6JPG (talk) 22:39, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Technically, that is correct. However, correctness is relative and not only created by technical definition but also by common use. Even the article PAL begins with it was broadcast at 625 lines, 50 fields (25 frames) per second , qualifies that at the end of the lede, and only mentions the exception for Brazil way down the text. I'd suggest using less surprising wording like 576i (commonly used with PAL). Technical nitpicking is out of place here in this article. --Zac67 (talk) 06:23, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

2.1 profile

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1860150#post1860150 109.252.169.138 (talk) 04:49, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

"List of released blu-ray discs" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect List of released blu-ray discs has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 18 § List of released blu-ray discs until a consensus is reached. 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 23:40, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

"List of Blu-ray devices" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect List of Blu-ray devices has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 18 § List of Blu-ray devices until a consensus is reached. 1234qwer 1234qwer 4 23:47, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

No mention of 8K Blu-ray?

I believe the 8K Blu-ray format as settled by the Blu-ray Disc Association should be mentioned in the article, even though this specification is currently released for Japan only. Source: Blu-ray Disc Association Settles on 8K Format --Wengier (talk) 01:16, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Why is "digital" included in CD/DVD and Blu-ray? It's not necessary and misleading

Everything is "digital" talking about discs, why would it have to be included? Please, lets debate this. @Zac67.

Let's start with a question: How would you describe the Blu-ray/DVD/CD format to anyone? Well.... it is... a DISC, an OPTICAL disc. But you don't start or state at any point that it's digital, because it's obvious that it contains digital media.

And this isn't important; the real importance is in the confusion it takes when you start with "digital optical disc... etc." it's just missleading. I couldn't memorize all that at once if I wanted, but if you remove the "digital", I can, because it's implicit.

I propose adding the "digital" later on in the article, just after mentioning it's an OPTICAL disc data storage format.

@Zac67, what's your argument on having it necessarily included as the first world describing it? It's not the first word you think of or need for explaining it.

A healthy entry would be: Blu-ray (Blu-ray Disc or BD) is a high-capacity optical disc format used for storing and playing back digital audio and video content.

(uppercase for emphasis) Abc910 (talk) 01:42, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello Abc910, an article on Misplaced Pages should summarize the highest quality sources. Additionally there are analog optical disc formats. Regards, Rjj(talk) 04:42, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

@Rjjiii YOu are right, and I don't deny that. I insist in the mistake of using it as the very very first word to describe what it is.

@Abc910: You seem to argument that it's obvious and redundant (so it shouldn't be misleading). I don't think it is. CD, DVD, BD are digital formats in contrast to former analog media like LaserDisc or various non-optical devices (phonograph, tape, CED, ...). --Zac67 (talk) 08:36, 21 September 2023‎

@Zac67, you didn't put your firm so I can't quote you, so I do it here.

LaserDisc quotes AT THE LAST of the first paragraph: Unlike most optical-disc standards, LaserDisc is not fully digital, and instead requires the use of analog video signals.

Why isn't it implicit in the VERY FIRST word that it's not fully digital? It should be: The LaserDisc (LD) is a not fully digital home video format ...

You say I said it's "obvious" and "redundant", and I admit that "obvious" was a bad use of the word, but it was to make a point. I didn't say "redundant" tho. It would be redundant if it said it is digital at the first word, and it said it later. But guess what, it doesn't mention the "digital" word in any other part of the article. Is this misleading?

MiniDisc is also digital, and go to the entry, it doesn't say "digital". Well, it actually doesn't even say in the entire entry it is! But MY DEAR Blu-ray has to have "digital" as the very very very first word that describes it, huh?

CD-Video neither even includes the word "digital", and those are the only ones I've checked of digital media. Abc910 (talk) 09:55, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

@Zac67 I propose this change for the entry, along with the other entries like CD and DVD and others:

Blu-ray (Blu-ray Disc or BD) is an optical disc format developed for digital storage and high-quality audiovisual content designed to supersede the DVD format. Abc910 (talk) 13:23, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

@Abc910: I prefer the current wording and oppose your proposal. --Zac67 (talk) 16:17, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

I oppose your opposal since my point of view is better for Misplaced Pages. The change will be approved when anyone with your similar status approves it. Thank you for your point of view. Abc910 (talk) 02:47, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

my point of view is better for Misplaced Pages OK everyone, Abc910 is here to fix everything that's wrong with Misplaced Pages, we can all quit now. I also oppose your proposed change. "Digital" helps readers who may be unfamiliar with the various differences in optical disc formats to understand that it is not analog as some preceding formats were. —Locke Cole • t • c 04:28, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

You make a point on why the word is there in the first place. I'm not talking about removing it, tho. I'll still be waiting until someone approves my change, and that will be it for you digital wikipedia entry editors. Abc910 (talk) 06:54, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Abc910's proposals are fine, so is the existing text. Let's go find something more impactful to work on. ~Kvng (talk) 14:10, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

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